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Hello all, Been a lurker for the last year and I'm finally posting as I need some help and couldn't find the answers I was after in prior posts. I'm afraid my V4 thinks it's only a V-twin! Forgive me that this will be rather long, as I want to give complete information in hopes that will be better able to assist me. Background: I have an '89 VR (Cali model, if it matters) that I bought almost exactly a year ago and have been slowly restoring and returning to road duty on a budget. Approximately 34,000 miles. When I bought the bike it would only run on full choke, and poorly at that. Previous owner bought it that way as a project. He attempted the shotgun cleaning method but that didn't work, then he lost interest. I have no other prior service history, though I can see that a lot of the prior "modifications" were poorly executed, so I have little faith in the competence of the PO (not who I bought it from) to properly repair and maintain the bike. Anyhow, I removed carbs and had a friend who operates an independent bike shop fully clean, rebuild, and bench synch the carbs. I have since installed and also installed new NGK iridium plugs. Running and performance: Bike has been running now for a few months, but not especially well. I have taken it out on a few "shakedown" rides of around 100 miles or so in hopes that riding it around would help it heal after coming out of an unknown period of hibernation. That hasn't fixed it. At start-up it fires right up on full choke but doesn't sound as smooth as I would expect and I hear a periodic popping that I believe to be pre-ignition or some incomplete combustion(???). Riding it it's a bit of a dog at first and I will have to feather the throttle some when I come to a stop (off of choke). It doesn't fall on its face when accelerating, it just doesn't feel as strong as it should. Mileage is horrible - I'm having to get gas after only around 75 miles or so. After riding for quite some distance (more than 15 miles) and especially after really flogging it on a more sustained basis, it seems to run noticeably better, although never 100% (at least I don't think). Still some popping on deceleration and doesn't always want to idle at stops if I let off the throttle. So in my estimation it seems to be running "kinda decent" at these times, though having never ridden one of these, I don't know what a properly running one should feel like. For reference I have owned several V45 Magnas, a ZX-12R (my main bike), and other inline 4's, among others. I have ridden a VMax once, but it was a number of years ago now. My memory of it is pretty limited, but my Venture doesn't feel nearly as powerful as I remember the VMax. My ZX-12R is in another stratosphere, but that's not an apt comparison. Current Symptoms & efforts to diagnose: I've had a suspicion that #4 is not firing, or at least not all the time. I'd previously used a pointable thermometer and saw the temperature (measured pointing at the jug) was significantly lower on #4 as compared to others. Unfortunately, I only ever checked this after starting the bike up in the driveway and riding up and down my street, rather than after an extended ride where it was running "better." I had also previously checked the spark plug in #4 and saw it was wet and likely fouled (cleaned, dried it, and reinstalled since it only had a couple hundred miles on it). This past Sunday I set about to figure out what was wrong, and fix it if I could. I started it up in the driveway on full choke and it fired right up. After letting it idle for a couple minutes I pulled the plug wire off of #4 - no change whatsoever. I stuffed another plug in it while it was still running and I do have spark - I both felt it and touched the plug to the engine and saw spark. I can't really say how strong, as it was in bright daylight, but I could definitely see it. More surprising to me was that I pulled the wire on #3 and had the very same outcome. I then pulled #1 and it immediately started to stumble, so I reinstalled. Didn't bother pulling #2 as it obviously had spark since the bike didn't immediately die when I pulled #1 . Pulled the plugs and inspected. #4 was wet and clearly fouled. Others were ok (not great), with the white ceramics a bit sooty, but not wet like #4 . Weirdly, #3 actually looked the best. Gapped and installed new NGK DPR8EA-9 plugs and crossed my fingers. I also checked the pilot mixture screws and discovered they were set anywhere from 3/4 out to 3 full turns out. I adjusted them all to 2 1/2 turns out as a baseline based upon what I read in other posts. Fired it up and it was no different. Could still pull the plug wires off of #3 & #4 without any effect. I probably should have taken the bike out and really run it before starting all this, but I didn't. Was thinking instead about having to work on a hot engine. Next I did a compression test. 1=190; 2=195; 3=195; 4=175 (eventually). So, #4 was lower and slower to pump up. No idea if/when valve lash has ever been inspected/adjusted. I see that it requires a special tool and shims, neither of which I have. I now suspect this may be at least part of the cause of my problems, but 175 psi still seems like it should be more than enough compression to support combustion. I continued on with checking ignition components, thinking the trouble may lay there. Holy hell what a job to get to the TCI and coils. I checked resistance on the pickup coil at the plug and all tested wires were within spec. I then checked primary resistance on the ignition coils and all 4 were in spec. at 2.9 ohms. I then checked secondary resistance by inserting a probe into plug cap and got the following resistance numbers: 1=22.5; 2=24; 3=22.1; 23.7. At first these numbers alarmed me as they are all much higher than the 15 ohm maximum specified in the service manual, but then I read that the plug cap should be 10 ohms itself +/- 10%, so if I subtract this out, all three coils are in spec for secondary resistance as well. I suppose I could remove the wires from the coils and try to test at the coil directly, but access is limited and I know I'm getting (at least some) spark to all 4 cylinders. Let me say I am not at all excited at the prospect of pulling the upper fairing to change out coils unless it is absolutely necessary. Considering they all test about the same, I'm thinking they're ok, but you guys are the experts on these bikes, not I. Those numbers also lead me to think the wires and ends must be (at least) ok too (I took apart plug wire and end for #4 and everything looked fine (no green corrosion), then I clipped a 1/4" off both ends of the wire and re-assembled). I got the TCI out of its stock location as well. From what I've read these can be the source of all kinds of poor running conditions as they start to fail. It is weird to me that when they fail it is not a complete failure, as that has been my past experience with CDI's. I can't help but wonder if this magic black box is the source of my problems. I did open the cover, but wasn't brave enough to dig out the soldering iron and desolder the pins to the main plugs just so I could look at the top of the motherboard and the diodes that are known to fail. My understanding from reading past posts is that if the TCI is not working properly, there's no fixing it. The diode replacement and resoldering of various connections is only preventative maintenance on properly functioning units. So my thinking was to leave it alone for now, since if it's broke I can't fix it, and if it ain't broke, I might just screw it up with my extremely limited soldering skills. It would certainly be helpful to have a known good one to plug in to rule in/out the TCI as a problem, but alas I do not have one and ones on ebay aren't cheap (for what may be junk anyhow). I've read about the Ignitek computer, but I don't know what my long-terms plans are for the bike and am concerned about budget. Besides, I don't want to just go throwing parts at it - especially expensive ones. I also checked to see if there's fuel getting to all 4 carbs and there is. I opened the drains on each of them and got full bowl's worth from each. So I'm not really sure where to go next with it. Based upon the compression test, I am wondering if valve adjustment should be next, though candidly I was hoping to avoid this job. I welcome suggestions, comments, offers of help, commiseration, jokes at my expense as the FNG, and further questions. I've done a ton of other work on the bike and I'm really anxious to have it finally "done." If I can ever get it running properly, I can turn my attention to the non-functioning cruise control (Grrrrr) and do a final "detailing" of the bike, before planning some longer trips. Thanks all for your patience in reading along, and thanks in advance for your assistance. [P.S. - If I have placed this post in the wrong folder, please feel free to move it and let me know where it should've been in the first place] -
Please oh great and wise ones... I'm going nuts here. About two months ago now I got stranded at work on my 99RSV. Rode to work just fine. When I went out to start it to go home, the starter turned and turned but she wouldn't start. I pulled the two back plug wires (cuz I could reach 'em) and stuck a screwdriver in there. No spark. I got the bike towed home and checked the other two plug wires. No spark there either. Checked resistance to the coils, and I'm easily within specs. Same on the batt'ry voltage. I then skipped all the other smart things to do and ordered a new pick-up coil and gaskets. After installing the pickup coil, the bike started!! Unfortunately after I shut it off, I could not replicate the victory and it hasn't started since. Well... I'm too much of an idiot to admit to my co-workers that I don't want to ride cuz it's just too darn cold, so I've been using the excuse that the bike ain't runnin' as my out. I'm now starting to get that twitch in my eyelid from driving the cage to work for two months and have decided to re-enguage. Any ideas? I'm gonna try to bypass the Kickstand and kill switches tonight (there's no need for anyone to remind me that I should've checked that before buying a pickup coil... my wife has that covered) but I'm not hopeful. any suggestions? thx! -
Im appealing to the wisdom of this site to find a mistery. Well here goes. I'm not getting a spark on second cylinder. I've gone thru the diagnose on the clymer's manual and all indicates is the igniter unit. I've changed it twice and same. I've switched the wires from the front primary coil to the second and I get a spark. Hence it's not the coil. A mechanic friend said it was the pickup coil. I changed it. Same symptom. Both sparks and caps tested and good. The only thing left is the stator, which test fine and produces spark in both coils. Any suggestions? Thanks! -
Here's the numbers key as a .pdf file attachment -Pete, in Tacoma WA USA NGK Spark Plug Number Key.pdf
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OK, I tried out the Colortune yesterday, and I don't think I am impressed at all. My plan was to use the Colortune on one cylinder, then compare the CO % of that cylinder with the others using the exhaust gas analyzer. Since I cannot find any published specifications from Yamaha for the right CO level on this engine, that seemed like a good way to approach it. The problem is that the Colortune does not seem very specific. I could turn the fuel mixture screw a LONG way in either direction without seeing any change in the color of the flame. After turning it out a lot I did eventually see a yellowish flame as I should, and if I turned it in far enough I would eventually see it begin missing a lot (mostly just a weak spark), but there was a huge range between those two points where all the sparks looked the same. I eventually just turned it in to the ultra lean point, then turned it out just a bit past where the spark seemed to be regular without any missing. The interesting part was that when I compared this setting with the original position of the mixture screw, it was almost identical! Coincidence? I have no idea. One other problem that may have contributed to the lack of a clear setting was that the spark was constantly jumping from the top of the Colortune plug to the engine, potentially causing a lot of misfires that would affect what I could see. But since this engine seems to have a dual-fire ignition with a waste spark in every cycle, there is no way to be sure how many of those arcs were really causing a misfire. I was doing this inside my garage on an overcast day where I thought the light was about right to easily read the Colortune. In addition, I was working on the left rear cylinder where it was very easy to look right down on the plug and get a clear view of the spark without needing to use their mirror attachment. Finally, I purchased the 12mm Colortune specifically for this bike instead of the generic 14mm unit with a 12mm adapter. I am glad I did this now, since the 14mm with an adapter would have had the Colortune plug sitting much further out of the cylinder, and I would be wondering if maybe that was why I found it so inaccurate. I have not yet tried out the exhaust gas analyzer, but I'll let y'all know how that goes soon. In the mean time, I would be interested in any responses from others that have actually used the Colortune. What did you think? Goose
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'87, sat 4 a long time, 14k miles Had issue with fuel in carbs that a $600 injection into the dealers retirment fund did not cure! Flushed w/carb cleaner/blew everything out and then washed with engine cleaner Now no spark at plugs. Backtracked all steps cleaning and drying e/thing, still no joy! Juice at coils though. AND NOT RIDING ON HOLIDAY WEEKEND! HELP!
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I'm gonna change my spark plugs myself. Looking at that project closely, It appears I might have to raise the gas tank to get to the front two plugs, Am I thinking right? -
Alright I really want to thank all of you for your help. I have narrowed it down to my front right cylinder with no spark. Pulled the plug and it is as clean as when it went in. Where do I go from here
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What spark plugs are the best to use in an 83. If it matters the YICS has been disabled.
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i am trying to get a set of non resistor spark plugs, i can get them but without the projected tip. does it make a big difference on our bikes? -
hello everyone my trobles still contuines i replaced the stater cover gaskit leaking real bad went to start bike will not start i did not disconect the wires to anything any ideals what to ck i pulled a plug no spark bumble bee 1999 rsv
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number 2 carb wont sync
OrlinEngh posted a topic in Venture and Venture Royale Tech Talk ('83 - '93)
On my 84 Venture I have 1,3,and 4 synced but number 2 will not, It also when warmed up will go from 1000 rpm to 2000 rpm up and down and have noticed a small back fire when running down the road. And at a idle you can hear it miss and then smooth out. I have good fire to number 2 spark plug. I checked the slide when runing and moves the same as the rest and checked the diaphragm and it looks good cant find any holes. Orlin -
went to NAPA this morning to get a spark plug socket to change my plugs(none of mine fit the NGK). Was advised by buddy up there that it is 18mm and they don't carry a spark plug socket to fit it....OK here comes stupid question,WHAT DO YOU GUYS USE TO CHANGE YOUR PLUGS WITH? Just a regular 18mm deep socket? or do I have to get one from the Yamaha dealer.OR??????????
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Alright i know spark plug replacement should be straight forward. But I've used every swear word i know, and I've even made up a few. I'm trying to get the new plug into the front cylinder on mt 85 venture royale. the other three went right in. do i have to take off the whole front to gain easy access to that spark plug. Pl;ease help, I'm at my wits end. thanx Lazy
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I got this fine scoot today, it needs a little TLC but should make a fun toy. I found it at the curb with the trash while on my way to move a boat. It's got compression & spark so it should run.
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Is there a trick to pulling the wires from the spark plugs?? Do the just pull off or are they screwed in somehow? -
My 89 VR, last year, ran fine. I normally run an ounce of SeaFoam in each gas tank, and at the end of the year on a full tank I put in about 4 or 5 ounces of Seafoam, then ran it about 30 minute ride, then top of the tank. Now it is ready for the winter lay up Sometime in Jan of 2012 during a nice day I took it out for a mid winter warm up. Just to make sure everything was running ok. It ran perfect until the last 5 minutes. All of a sudden I could tell that I was not getting the normal throttle response. At a stop light I noticed that it was idling at less than 500 rpms and I could hear what might sound like not firing on all 4s. Got it home and let it sit. See I was too busy putting accessories on my 91 VR. But all the time been thinking about how to attack the 89 VR issue. So I finally got to it this morning. As I turned the key on the fuel pump did it click click thing like a machine gun. Hit the choke and with in about the 2nd hit of the starter it started right up. During warm up I could tell that the symptom was still there. When I took the choke off, yep it is idling below 500 rpm, and not sounding good. From cold start up I hit each cylinder with the laser temp run and all 4 cylinders seem to be warming up fairly evenly, temp wise. I will start it up tomorrow morning when cold and be more attentive with the temp on the left banks. The left banks temp may have been a bit behind the right banks. I just wasn’t paying too closely So this morning I did the following: I sniped off 1/8 to 1/4 inch of the spark plug wire. Started it up - Same symptoms. Facing in the forward riding position While running I pulled the right back cylinder plug - the engine died. While running I pulled the right front cylinder plug - the engine died. While running I pulled the left back cylinder plug - engine kept running. tiny bit less rpm. While running I pulled the left front cylinder plug - engine kept running. tiny bit less rpm. So it is my 2 left cylinder bank. I pulled the plug cap of each left cylinders and put a spare plug in it to test for spark. Both have good spark. I then unscrewed each plug and then tested the two original spark plug for spark. Both have good spark. Infact the plugs almost look band new. Well they should be for very little miles were put on them last year. Also when I pulled the original plugs they were not wet with fuel. They were very dry, meaning they aren't getting any fuel or what fuel it was getting was being burnt off. It was running initially with the choke but later I took the choke off. So with good spark and the cylinder temp seemed to be going up some what normal would indicate that the 2 left cylinders were getting proper spark and fuel. I'm suspicious it still is a fuel issue. I’m going start it up tomorrow morning, cold, and record the cylinder temps. Meanwhile any suggestion for me to think and plan would be appreciated. I’d like to start with the less expensive and simpler solutions. Thanks -
I was doing some spring maintenance this past weekend which included changing the spark plugs on my RSV. I took some photos of how I easily installed the spark plugs without worry of cross threading by using a plastic tube to start the threading and hand tightening. I know that I read this tip somewhere (probably here) but thought I would post a photo of it for those who may not know this trick. The handle at the top of tube is a nail punch which made it easy to turn the tube and when the plug was hand tight you could see it slip. Once hand tight simply pull tube off plug and torque to spec. As we all know a photo is worth a 1000 words - right?
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So I'm in the process of removing the 16 valve cover bolts and adding washers to stop my couple of small leaks. I'm also replacing the spark plugs as I work in each area... I pop off the spark plug cap to replace the front left plug and I see what looks like a big washer behind it... When I removed it, it was a 1984 quarter. How the heck did a quarter get in that tight area behind the cap...? That just hits me as weird... the plugs looked like they were in for a long time... but it's a 1989...
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I'm trying to get my bike going its been sitting for a long time, I've had a long running issue with the starting system its never been dependable so I pretty much gave up on it. Well another thread on another members starter switch problems got me looking at mine and long story short I jerry rigged it up so it now will dependably crank with no problems, its still not %100 correct but it works. So now I'm trying to get it running, I had a heck of a time at first, needed to clean the carbs out some ether & its running, not good but it ran. I could tell it wasn't running on all cylinders but I thought it was just dirty fuel system so I let it run and run seafoam, carb cleaner the works. After a while I could tell it was more than the fuel system. I pulled the plugs and only 1 cylinder look right, nice & dry with just a touch of brown on the ceramic.The rest were wet and covered in black suit. I check them for spark & no surprise only the 1 cylinder had a good spark, the rest nothing. I tried WD & checking the connections and got 2 of the cylinders showed a weak spark and the 4th didn't have enough spark to jump the gap on the plug just spark at the ground a little. I'm not real familiar with this type of ignition system so I was hoping some one here might have some suggestions. Sorry this dragged out so long. Thanks Pete -
if you have the latest December 2011 MCN. Downtime files has my letter. Seems he does not have a "for sure" answer to my question. I did have an issue with #2 carb, which is now fixed. But that does not explain why all the NGK caps and spark plugs failed. He thought maybe oil got into the caps. FYI- No, that's not it. I truly believe NGK is now making junk(which I have stated before). And think about it. OEM caps are roughly $25-$40, NGK $4. So you get what you pay for in this case. I have a total of 6 or more bad spark plugs from NGK in the last 3 years resistor and non-resistor. Remember the spark plug is simply an extension of the wire connected to the engine's coil for spark to jump in a hostile environment. I NOW have changed the caps back to OEM(10k ohm) and spark plugs to Denso iridiums. Plus all my carbs set up on low speed screws at 2.5 ccw +/- a quarter turn connected to EGA . 13.6:1 at idle. And were not rich when tested on load. ...cheers:)
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About 25,000 miles ago my 2000 venture failed and would not start.....after checking everything for several days finally figured that the pick up assembly (part # 4nk 81670-00-00) had failed. Its also called an Ignition pickup pulse generator. The first one I replaced was ordered through Yamaha. This time I will get a used one from Pinwill. What I would like to know is if anyone else has had this problem or maybe I am just special. By the way I looked through the forum and could not find anyone else with the same problem....Both times the pick up assembly failed it was in the my garage, a day or three after a long hard ride, 10hr 60-80mph.
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Can anyone give a quick tutorial on what the codes on spark plugs mean? for my 83 VR (1200) The manual says I need DGK DPR8EA-9 or X24EPR-U9(Nippon Denso) (is Nipon Denso the manufacturer???) The plugs that are in the bike from the PO are NGK R DR8ES-L (which the largest CTC in Canada (Kingston, ON) doesn't stock! so...what do you folks recommend?
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My original caps did not fail internally. But had oxidized from age. And due to the high cost of the OEM caps. I replaced them with NGK caps and new copper core wires. NOW-After having ALL my NGK replacement caps fail internally with little mielage on them. Which I posted on another thread. FYI- This will happen to them all. They are junk. NOW, I am wondering if anyone has found 7mm graphite or other wires with RUBBER caps like older cars use...that fit properly on our small (in automobile terms) spark plugs??? I know we are to have some resistance in the wires or caps....thus graphite type is my 1st thought. -
Well figured I would post this here just to see if we have any out board Techs or folks familiar with this engine. Here's what I have got. 1995 Yamaha 225TXRT. Carbureted (6 individual) 76 degree V6 First noticed the problem as a surge sensation running at 4000, would get an intermittent burst for 1-2 secs then drop back. Had a little miss stutter I could detect coming up on plane, but otherwise planes easily (226 GW Seafarer). Replaced spark plugs, ran the same. Ran it for about an 1 hour after that. Checked the plugs and number 2 looks new. Here's what's been done. The engine has spark on all six at idle and I have visually verified spark at the spark plugs on all six at cranking speed (old school test with plug in the boot). Checked the ignition coils resistance primary and secondary windings. All OK per spec. Checked the resistance on the spark plug caps and found #2 way out . Replaced the spark plug cap on # 2. Test ride no change. Swapped complete coil assembly between #2 and #4, Still no change, problem does not follow the coil. Still missing with no coloring of the #2 plug. Resistance of Both Charge Coils and each of the 6 poles of the pulser coil are in spec. Using the Yamaha (Electro Specialties) CDI Tester (Black box with the dial, light and High/low switch) The Pulser coil (all six poles), the charge coils, and the CDI outputs to the ignition coils (using the specified load coil) all test in range. All of them tested higher than the minimum specified set point. Spec for CDI output to coil is dial at 75 and switch on high. All 6 cdi outputs would continue to light the light up to a dial setting of 82. Cranking speed with all plugs removed. Same for pulser coil output. Spec is 45 and low switch. All 6 poles will light the light with a dial setting up to 55. Repeated the output tests with the Yamaha CDI tester with engine hot. Same result. Ran boat with Air intake removed and confirmed fueling on #2 with same spray pattern as 4 and 6. Fresh fuel, 90 octane No ethanol Recreational marine fuel, New Racor filter, have never had any fuel starvation problems. Still have even compression 125-130 in all cylinders. Can Pulser Coil check good at cranking speed and be bad at higher Speed?? Pulser coil is over $300.00 don't want be wrong on this. Anyway to check if I'm dropping the pulser for #2 under load?? Don't have a winky blinky (Yamaha Diagnostic Tool YB 6444), but the manual says it works on mine. Is the winky blinky a reliable test? Would you condemn a pulser based on the Winky blinky code? Have I missed, not checked anything obvious that would effect just #2? Thank You in advance for any help, suggestions, Derrek
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