Programmable TCI-plug & play group purchase feeler

I am checking to see if there would be enough interest from members to make it feasible for me to buy about 10 (or more) of the Ignitech TCIP4 V80 TCI ignition modules. These units would be a 30 minute or less job to install & be riding with.

I would get these units from Ignitech, pre-load a Venture program setup with mileage and performance balanced. The adapter harness would include the wiring for the pressure sensor that the TCI uses. The stock Venture boost sensor is not compatible with the Ignitech unit & can't be used. I would supply either a brand new boost sensor or one from a auto recycler, the second option being much more economical & would be fully tested by me.

I will be able to supply unit in either 83-89, 4 pickup coils or 90-93, 1 pickup coil versions .

Ignitech Site link:

http://www.ignitech.cz/english/aindex.htm

I can get these units and resell them with a gently used boost sensor, fully tested and ready to go for $225 US plus shipping. If a new boost sensor is wanted the cost would increase by about $50 (subject to change). I would need a partial prepayment in order to finance this. Balance of payment due when ready to ship by me. Turn around time would be about 2 weeks. It would take me about a week to get TCI's and some time to wire & test them.

And being upfront about it, this is about $25 less than the unit can be purchased from Ignitech and the cost of a used boost sensor factored in.

All that would be needed by user to utilize this unit would be to unplug the 2 cables from the existing TCI & plug them into the adapter harness. Then mount the TCI, which is slightly larger than a pack of smokes & mount the boost sensor. Connect the hose from the #2 intake boot to the boost sensor. Mounting of TCI can be on air box lid or left radio pocket.

The TCI can be hooked up to a laptop that either has a com port or one with a USB port & an adapter that will be made available. It will not be necessary to have a laptop hookup if you do not desire to modify the program I would load in it. With the use of a laptop connection, the user can customize settings as desired.

The Ignitech thread is located at link below, there is a lot of info in it. I will supply an electronic manual with the TCI. I will also put on the CD any useful info I have collected while using this unit. Each CD will have additional info such as bike wiring schematics and other items not supplied by Ignitech. The Ignitech manual, TCIP4 program and initial module program will also be included.

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=40414

1st picture shows the TCI, wiring harness, a used pressure sensor and the software CD. Also are extra pins Ignitech supplies if user wants to add other non-utilized features of TCI, such as fuel pump relay control, shift light, inputs for shut off features.

2nd picture shows an boost sensor.

3rd picture shows end view of TCI

4th picture shows adapter harness with boost sensor leads.

5th picture shows Miscellaneous settings screen

6th picture shows Bike settings screen

7th picture shows 2D advance map example, would be different in supplied format.

8th picture shows 3D advance map example, would be different in supplied format.

Last picture shows test screen.

Gary

I am very interested!!!

I don't understand them but would be interested!!!

We'll ge everything in the first pic, right? For 225 count me in, I need one for my 83VR.

Programmable TCI,

Gary I am very interested too!

Rob

Gary, count me in too. I'd want a new boost sensor though.

I would be interested also.

Any thought given wither TPS would be better than VAC sensor?

I would be interested also.

Any thought given wither TPS would be better than VAC sensor?

The Throttle Position Sensor is what the Ignitech was designed for. For those that don't know, The TPS is just a variable resistor device that is hooked to either the throttle cable system or the carb linkage to determine the amount the carb butterflies are open.

It is a much more difficult task to mount a TPS to a bike that doesn't have one. On the Venture, it could possibly be attached to the crossover bar that connects the right & left carb banks with a suitable bracket.

The Bar sensor mimics the TPS's output but this output is based on motor vacuum instead of throttle position.

The bar sensor, in my opinion, is a better benchmark of the demand be placed on the motor at any given moment. The motor will have a different need for advance when you are cruising along at half throttle, than from a stop where you are under an acceleration mode up to the half throttle position. The bar sensor will output a higher voltage while the motor is accelerating, thus able to advance timing. The TPS is going to read the same under both different conditions and apply the same advance to both. The TCI will also read RPM change and adjust timing accordingly. In this case picture a bike that is accelerating gently as opposed to a take off where there is rapid acceleration. Each has a different advance need based on load on motor.

Gary

Below is a response I posted on VMax site in regards to using stock boost sensor. If someone could make some voltage checks on a stock boost sensor and see if its output ever exceeds 5vdc, it may be possible to use the stock unit.

I am very interested in this also, but why won't the stock boost sensor work and what do you do to the other sensors to make it work?

The stock booster is a 12vdc based system. If someone could check a couple of things with a meter, there is a chance they can be made to work. What I need to know is does the stock boost sensor ever put out a voltage of more than 5VDC. Is the voltage output at a given RPM & load like idling steady when the battery voltage changes. This could be checked by reading the output voltage of stock sensor then turning on all the accessories on the bike like lights, running lights whatever. If the out put voltage varies then it is not a good candidate to use.

The Ignitech module only has a window of voltage that it can read from 0vdc to 5vdc on the TPS input. I have attached a picture showing the high and low range that is settable. The procedure to set the TPS output is to have unit hooked up, bike warmed up and idleing. On the Miscellaneous tab there are two Voltage modifiable setting points. You run the 0% TPS number up to the lowest voltage that the Bar sensor puts out. Then by cracking the throttle and seeing what the highest voltage output is the upper range is run down to this number. With these to numbers set somewhat close to actual output, the TCI then is able to calculate and use the full spectrum of the bar output. In the Misc screen on the right side, there is a TP=--% field. This field will show the percentage of bar output when bike is hooked up to TCI.

In the ignitech module there is a 5vdc regulated power supply, this is used to drive the General Motors style 1 bar senor that we have been using. Actually, Ignitech assumes the a Throttle position sensor (TPS) will be used. The TPS is not a good indicator of load on the motor as a Bar sensor is though. Plus mounting a TPS is much more complicated to do. I have on, and was considering at one time mounting it to the crossover bar between the right & left carb banks, but decided to go with the bar sensor.

Another advantage of the Ignitech TCI is that it has a variable dwell setting that can be used when COP's are used to compensate for the lower primary coil resistance. This setting is on the Misc. tab, left center block titled Dwell, I have it set to manual in this view, so some other options for settings are displayed.

The Ignitech software, manual, stock IGN file & IGN file I am running are attached in the zip file below. You can run the 110523a_tcip4A_v80.exe file and see the programs ability. It will run fine without being hooked to a TCI. When program is running, load either the stock IGN file or my IGN file via the file open command.

There are a number of other options that are discussed in the manual that is attached below. The files in the attached Zip file are:

110523a_tcip4A_v80.exe - software programming module

manual_sparker_tcip4_v80_en.pdf - Ignitechs supplied manual

v-max old venture.ign - Ignitechs supplied timing IGN file

GDD V80 map.ign - IGN file as I ran it last year

Below are links to 3 videos did whhile experimenting with the Bar sensor. They show the Advance screen and the effect that putting a small vacuum canister in the line achieved. These were taken last year when I was using the prior version of the TCI, Version 75. I just got my new module (V80) Friday and haven't got it in yet. Any TCI's purchased will be the V80 units. I tied all 4 vacuum ports together when I was using canister.

First one shows the TPS value varying without the canister installed.

Second one shows how canister smoothed out TPS value.

Third is showing RPM's being varied.

Gary

The TPS is going to read the same under both different conditions and apply the same advance to both??. The TCI will also read RPM change and adjust timing accordingly. In this case picture a bike that is accelerating gently as opposed to a take off where there is rapid acceleration. Each has a different advance need based on load on motor.

 

Gary

I have followed the Ingitek thread with intrest, had my hat off to all work completed so far with outstanding results. My thought is that the unit is DESIGNED for TPS, and the BAR workaround while works fine, could be better using TPS.

The TPS senses requested throttle, and while monitoring RPM the ignition unit adjusts advance until RPM=request, during both fast and slow accel.

The BAR simulates requested throttle, lagging behind actual throttle request based on engine load, therby advance lags, but can be compensated in unit programming-again outstanding job making it work as well as it does.

My thought is to use linear position potimeter simular to pic on throttle cross bar.

I have also considered possibility of using both TPS and BAR, with results to a digital 'summing' circuit which would feed TPS input of Ingitek.

Gary, I would be interested in the complete unit & used BAR, but would also like spare pins to experiment with TPS.

I would have interest as well.

Coming from a more automotive past, I believe everything I have ever looked at or worked on that had a TPS sensor still had either a MAP (or boost called here) or a Mass Airflow Sensor. The system diagnosing everything from only a TPS would not receive all the best information on what the load is.

Would like one real bad for the 86, but being layed up this last 5 weeks has layed a hurting on the money.

After a lot of searching, I finally found a supplier that will sell me a quantity of new MAP 1 bar sensors with the wiring harness. I have been hesitant to do this with having to find that many sensors at a junkyard, not knowing what condition they were in and not having every one alike, so that people can swap info & know that the other person has a very similar setup. I scoured ebay and almost countless web sites. I could find some sensors only that were cheaper, but no wiring harness. Without the harness I would have had to find correct terminals, make the harness, and possibly epoxy fill the cavity.

I have gotten a decent reading on the stock Venture Boost sensor, from GaryZ. He said it had a low reading of 1.66v and a high reading of 2.4v. which is an offset difference of 0.74v. This is a lot less than the sensor I am using. It has a low of about 1.37 and a high of 3.45 which is a differential of 2.08 volts. A much nicer range to work with. The Ignitech software will let user adjust high & low voltage on an attached PC to calibrate the exact output of any given motor. See 1st attached screen shot (note this is taken from version 75 software. these units will be version 80 software.)

2nd picture attached is of the Bar sensor I found.

3rd picture is a dimensional drawing with millimeter dimensions. I have placed inch measurements on picture at critical dimensions. wiring harness is probably close to 1" additional height added to the 2.1" dim.

4th & 5th are some specs and views of map sensor.

I can get the TCI and matching cable & software to match up to either a 83-89 Venture with 4 pick up coils or a 90-93 Venture with 1 pick up coil. The TCI is identical with either model, only adapter cable & software will change. I am also going to get enough pins so that any one that wants to can cut the ends of the Venture harness and replace with the somewhat special pins so eliminate the bulk of the adapter harness.

This paragraph is not intended to scare anyone away or influence you to get in on this buy. I received my unit last weekend. This is at least the 10th one that they have sold to a Venture owner and it still had a wiring mistake that I know they have been informed about. They had the pick up coil common (4 coil unit) and the ground connector swapped. This is one of the the things I checked for before hooking it into my bike. Swapped connectors prior to plugging in and it started right up.

Ok, in order to get the new map sensors I will need $15 more per unit, which a new cost of $240 per unit plus shipping of probably $8 for US priority mail.

If you want to use your own map sensor or go with the existing one on the bike now, it would be $220 plus shipping.

Between the people here that said they wanted to do this and the Venture people I have enough lined up if most every one commits. I will need a fairly sizable down payment from every one with the balance due upon shipping. I am just a regular worker bee like most of you so I don't have the free capital to bankroll all this. I have about $500 to invest in it. What I am trying to do is make a little profit each one sold and I am going to get the Racer 3 TCI they have to experiment with. It has Nitrous retard functions.

I will need at least $175 down to do this Total payment is better yet. I will PM each one that has expressed an interest. If you can please commit ASAP. I will get the MAP sensors ordered right away as they are about a week shipping from China.

I will not order TCI's until the 14th of August. That would be Monday morning in Czech Republic. The reason is to give people a week plus to get funds together. I would need payment to my paypal account, money order would be great or personal transaction on paypal so I don't have to pay a 2.9% fee. I would hope to receive them by Friday the 19th. Allow the weekend to prep them & test then ship out Monday 22nd.

One final note. I work for a sensor manufacturer in the R&D department. I am the mechanical engineer, one of the electrical engineers thinks he can come up with a low cost, low complexity circuit to drive the servo motor. This will entail boosting the TCI 5vdc to 12 VDC to run the servo. This will MAYBE be a future upgrade. For now the standard VBoost controller or what is on the VMax now will drive servo. This is just speculation at this point, but I have a lot of resources available to do this & test it if it can be done.

Any thoughts or suggestions either PM me or post here.

My email is gary(at)dinges.com remove (at) and insert @

Gary

Gary, I'm in

PM sent

Scary stuff there Gary. Maybe goose is right I just ain't too bright...:whistling:

If you use booster on bike would it make it easier to swap from 1st Gen to 1st Gen?? Is this thing going to be plug & play???

Scary stuff there Gary. Maybe goose is right I just ain't too bright...:whistling:

 

If you use booster on bike would it make it easier to swap from 1st Gen to 1st Gen?? Is this thing going to be plug & play???

The stock boost seems like it will work, but not as well as the 1 bar map sensor. The stock boost unit does not have as wide a voltage difference as the bar sensor, the wider range is more useful.

Also if the stock unit were to fail at some point, it might put 12 volts into the Ignitech unit, which is 5V based. It has 12v input, but then regulates it to 5v, much like any modern auto.

It will be plug & play. It will be completely tunable by those that want to with a laptop to hook into it, but not required.

Gary

So the booster and Ignitech will be a easy swap from bike to bike? I have more than one 1st Gen and this would be a great way to see if things were working right.

So the booster and Ignitech will be a easy swap from bike to bike? I have more than one 1st Gen and this would be a great way to see if things were working right.

It would be very functional between bikes. Not as perfect as it could be with some tweaking, but at least as good as a fully functional stock TCI.

It will only be able to be swapped from an 83 to an 89 in your case. The 90-93 will need a different wiring harness & software to function. I will provide that for the year needed, dependent on # of pick up coils in motor. This is the driving difference. The TCI electronics is identical between the different models. 83-89 have 4 pick up coils & 90-93 have 1.

This will also work on the RSV's, just a different adapter harness and a different program.

This same thing will work on Triumphs, some Hondas, some Harleys, some Kaw's, some suzuki's. It's what makes it so attractive. Everything can be adjusted via the software & adapter harness.

Gary

Yep you are going to get me in trouble. I told the Warden I needed more money in PayPal. I'll tell her it is all your fault!!:whistling:

Attached are a few pictures of what the installed unit looks like, I just let mine lay in the radio pocket. I have an after market radio, that is very short, no cd player and it works out fine.

The 1st picture is of just the adapter cable shows a MAP sensor similar to the new ones I will be getting. I am going to use the 3 pin stator style plugs I got to make the MAP sensor unplugable.

2nd picture is of system in bike.

3rd is of it hooked up to laptop USB port.

Gary

I think this great idea. Im interested but my question is is it possible to maybe have an aggressive program for fun and another for mileage that one could download from lets say a smart phone?

I think this great idea. Im interested but my question is is it possible to maybe have an aggressive program for fun and another for mileage that one could download from lets say a smart phone?

There needs to be a PC interface to the 9 pin com port on the Ignitech module to upload a program into it, With the Ignitech interface software running.

Not sure how to do it, but there possibly could be a wireless interface developed. Not by me though.

Gary

Am I going to loose that 50 MPG "Brown Sugar" gets when I ain't playing??? :whistling:

Really should do better shouldn't it? I can't see it making much difference in the way she runs. At least RandyA and Warrior hope so.. Just peace of mind. I would like to find somebody to clean up orginal TCI's and renew what can be in them but Warden isn't happy with money I've gotten rid of this year. That Damn contractor really got me. Just make mine run a little better than....