Help-valve shim tool

I am checking the valves on my 96 Royal Star and have 5 shims that need to be changed. There are 2 local dealers who will swap shims but I need the tool for depressing the valves. Does anyone in Canada have one that is available for loan if I pay the shipping? I read in a previous post that Mother from Toronto had a kit that could be circulated but I have not been able to reach him. I live in Oshawa, Ontario.

Thanks

Doug

Hey doug, post this in the watering hole section and you might get someone from Canada to help you. Its watched and answered more often. If your handy you can make one. Do a search on valves on this site. There are some pretty good drawings to help in making your own tool. I made mine and posted some pictures of it, it wasn't pretty but it worked like a charm. If no one from Canada has one to loan you I'd be willing to loan you mine.

Attached is a drawing of the tool, if you would like to take a shot at making one.

Dimensions taken from an official Yamaha tool for the first drawing.

Second drawing, Valve Shim Tool Rev B.pdf, has been modified slightly to make it easier to machine. Still same functionality though. Second one I showed being .010" wider as well, this was to center between shim buckets better.

Not sure about the material spec of 17-4 steel, but that would be my choice for hardness & machining.

I just reloaded the two drawings, I matched the dimensioning styles between the two so they are easier to compare.

If any of the CAD equipped people want the model of the tool or draft files let me know.

Gary

53261.pdf

Great drawings Gary. Didn't know I was so good with my stick welder, dremal and files when I made mine.:rotfl: These info drawings need to be in the tech sections.

Thanks for the replies and drawings guys. I think I have tracked down a kit that is available in Toronto, just waiting to hear back from a member.

I will try to make one for future use,I have access to a milling machine and the drawings are very good Gary.

Thanks again, much appreciated.

Doug

I have a chunk of material on order and was going to make it all up into tools. It should make about 20 tools.

I have no idea how much it is going to cost me to machine these, I will have to purchase some tooling as I go.

My drawing is even more simplified for machining.

I sure wish now that I had gotten around to converting my mill to CNC, that would make this easy to make.

You mean I was using the wrong tool?

For those who want to built a Tool, i'd suggest to give the the End of the "Cam" a bigger Radius, or more Meat, so to speak, because we had trouble getting Shims out of the Bucket on Bikes which desperately needed Setting the Valve Clearances. We nearly had to undo the Cam to get the Shims out because the "Cam" was on the very End of it's forcing Range.

For those who want to built a Tool, i'd suggest to give the the End of the "Cam" a bigger Radius, or more Meat, so to speak, because we had trouble getting Shims out of the Bucket on Bikes which desperately needed Setting the Valve Clearances. We nearly had to undo the Cam to get the Shims out because the "Cam" was on the very End of it's forcing Range.

The 'B' version of the drawings I posted above does what Squeeze is suggesting.

I increased the downward movement of the shim bucket by about .015".

It also has .031" reliefs in the corners of the hex shape for tooling clearances.

Gary

Has anybody checked with MiCarl? He had some of these tools made up and was selling them very reasonably. Don't know if he still has any or not though.

It is good to know about needing some extra meat on the tool, It is easy to add it at this point.

At this point it is the challenge of making it.

Playing with my mill in the basement on these cold snowy days is still fun.

Besides, Right now I have a lot more time than money.

Has anybody checked with MiCarl? He had some of these tools made up and was selling them very reasonably. Don't know if he still has any or not though.

Thanks for the plug.

Actually I buy them from K&L Supply like every other seller. The price is anything but reasonable, but I guess since they're the only ones that have them it's take it or leave it (or make your own). At least they didn't Jack up the price 30%+ like they did last Jan 1.

Gary I wonder if you shouldn't put the chamfer on the tail of the tool in your simplified drawing. I find I've usually got the stock tool rotated around to where it would hit the head if the chamfer weren't there.

Thanks for the plug.

 

Gary I wonder if you shouldn't put the chamfer on the tail of the tool in your simplified drawing. I find I've usually got the stock tool rotated around to where it would hit the head if the chamfer weren't there.

Carl,

What I showed on the B rev drawing is to eliminate the chamfer by shortening the long leg of the tool to the point where the chamfer started.

I just updated the two drawings in the first post, so the dimensioning styles matched, one was done in coordinate layout, and the other, point to point style. Now it is easier to see changes.

I did not feel the shortening of this leg would adversely effect the tools functioning, yet still allow for it to clear the head.

I posted a picture below to illustrate the point in question. 2nd picture shows tool rotated and chamfer clearing head.

The reason I showed this is that in order to produce this tool in small quantities, it will have to be CNC machined. With the chamfer on the end as it was, it will take a very short, special clamp, to hold it on the CNC table vertically. This would be required to allow the cutter head to be able to cut the back arc, then cut the chamfer in one machining setup.

It can be done in two setups, but that then increases the cost of the tool.

As it is, the blank will need to be milled down to the required thickness (.425") in one machining operation. Then be positioned in a CNC machine to cut the profile out. Even at that, it would require a 5 axis machine, I think.

There are also added relief cuts (.031" R.) at the two corners of the hex that fits around the camshaft. This is to allow a CNC cutter to cut the flats. This may need to be increased to .062" depending on tooling availability.

As the tool is made now, I believe it is a forging, with no secondary machining done to it. That would prohibit making this tool in small quantities economically as it is now designed.

Gary

I was going to use a different approach to making these.

Since I do not have a CNC mill, only manual.

I will start with a 12" bar and machine the profile into the full length of the bar, so it looks like an extrusion.

I was then going to cut it up into the proper thickness and put each of those on a rotary table to cut in the step.

Having never actually been involved in a valve checking job YET I am taking in everyone's input into making a better tool.

I am not looking to go into business making these, but I will make however many I get out of this one chunk of metal.

That's exactly how i'd approach that Job.

What I showed on the B rev drawing is to eliminate the chamfer by shortening the long leg of the tool to the point where the chamfer started.

 

....

 

I did not feel the shortening of this leg would adversely effect the tools functioning, yet still allow for it to clear the head.

I hadn't looked closely enough to see it had been shortened. I don't see an issue with that, I think the leg is just to have a place to hold onto it.

I thought that the leg was just to prevent over rotation and having the springs slam back if/when you went off the back of the tool.

If either case is true, then the shortened base leg should not be a problem.

I thought that the leg was just to prevent over rotation and having the springs slam back if/when you went off the back of the tool.

 

If either case is true, then the shortened base leg should not be a problem.

I don't think you could over rotate it and have the valves snap shut.

As you insert the tool, the short leg is down and engages the buckets, as the cam is rotated, the buckets are increasingly depressed as the tool rotates towards the long leg, with contact being made on the smaller radii machined into the face of the tool. Maximum depression of the buckets occurs when the long leg of the tool is vertical. At this point the buckets are contacting the tool half way around the rear of the tool.

Over rotation would try to force the longer leg through the bucket contact point. I don't think this would be possible, at least without some serious damage to tool, cam or buckets

Gary

This thread has been very interesting. I did get in touch with Mother from Toronto and not only did he have a shim kit, he delivered it right to my door...talk about good service. Turns out we have a lot of common interests and had a real nice visit. You meet the nicest people on a Yamaha.

I want to thank Gary and Jeff for the plans for the tool, I have a manual milling machine and will definitely try to make one, with such detailed drawings I think I can handle it.

All the info is greatly appreciated.

Doug

OK, I am officially bored with winter. Below are a couple of quick drawings of tool in two positions.

First is tool inserted over cam.

Second is cam rotated 90 deg and tool pushing down on buckets. Cam lobes are rotating up and to rear for reference.

This is showing the 'B' version of the tool, with the shortened long leg. This is explained in post #13 above.

Gary

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af193/gdingy101/toolinserted.jpg

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af193/gdingy101/toolandcamrotated.jpg

A comment. The notches in the buckets in the drawings are lined up the way you'd like them to be so that you can easily pry out the shims. In real life, they rotate, so you need to use a pick to rotate them as desired before using the tool. On some (but not all) buckets, the shim tool will cause the bucket to rotate as the tool rotates with the cam. On these buckets you need to start the notch in the bucket about 60 degrees rotated such that the shim tool will rotate them back to the front.

make sense?

good drawing gary.

So the next question is.

Do you ever need to rotate the cam/tool more than 90° to get room to remove the shim?

So the next question is.

Do you ever need to rotate the cam/tool more than 90° to get room to remove the shim?

I've always rotated it around to where the "tail" almost contacts the head. I'm not sure it always needs to go that far but my thinking is the more room the better.

I think maximum deflection of the buckets would be around 130 deg rotation.

This is from looking at the drawing I did.

As it rotates past 90 deg, there is still some increase in the outside radii, even though the inner machined radii have been passed by.

Gary

not much more than 90 degrees would be my observation. Some valve pairs have more room than others as there are obstructions in the way of a few of the pairs.

The bucket only needs to be depressed enough to allow the shim to be popped up and slid forward and out.