To Flame or Not to Flame

There have been several members that have been burned by a fellow member in the VR classified section.

I am sure that 99% of the members of this forum are good, honest people. I hate to see the other 1% screw up a good thing.

My question is...should I mention this individual's name so that others can use caution in their dealings with him? Or, should I keep my mouth shut and not flame fellow members?

I wouldn't be so bothered by this, but some people have lost considerable amounts of money to this guy.

Let me know what you all think.

Spill it -- we don't need predators who take advantage of the kinship on a site like this.

Shoot, I thought you was talking about painting the bike.

THAT's a really good question. And a difficult one to answer. If its done by the same member on a regular basis then I would. BUT I think this is a question best answered by Don because of the possible issues. A lot of variables goin into allowing something like that. It maybe something best handled by PM's .... That's Private Messages not PMS .

By Don, then after a couple of warnings then go public.

So is he sending out parts in bad condition, or not sending parts out at all? This is probably best left to Don to handle.

Shoot, I thought you was talking about painting the bike.....

No. That would be a serious question! lol

I agree with you guys that it should be something handled by Don.

I will contact him after Christmas when he's feeling better.

Thanks and Merry Christmas.

In my opinion and having been ripped off and I have ABSOLUTLY NO USE for people who steal from those of us who are generous or trusting. I say post who they are.

I have posted there name and address but that's me.

I do not believe in cutting a thief any slack.

Because there is always a alternative to stealing and all a person needs to do is ask.

especially from members of a organization your in or people you work with.

I know of to many people and organizations that will help out.

Its just me and my worth........................Ron

There are several things you can do.

1. Try to work out the issue with the member.
   
2. In the VR Classifieds you can post feedback similar to eBay about a user.
   
3. Contact Don or another moderator and ask for assistance.
   
4. Flame on. But make sure your in the right.

BTW: If they are delivering less than advertised parts or not delivering at all then there may be state and federal laws that can be used in your favor. After fraud is fraud and wire fraud is still a crime.

I suppose......it is hard for me to believe any one on here is deliberately doing something like this. Sometimes things are not fully understood, what one thinks is fact is in reality just a situation that gives a bad impression. I would advise being very, very careful........make darn sure you have all the facts and all the truths about such a situation if it does exist. Then if and when you are sure, and if for certain simply ask the Captain to talk to them......if there is still no resolution.......just simply let them quietly fade away, it serves no purpose to make public anyone who might be doing this......if they can no longer access the site........situation solved........if for a fact some have been ripped off.......well that has happened to all of us at one time or the other, know it does make everyones blood pressure go up......best to just be absolutely sure before you do anything. Respectfully Kit

Kit and all,

Kris and I are really sure. We will work with Don to attempt a resolution. If that does not work, then in the immortal words of the Fantastic 4 -- FLAME ON!

RR

Please send me a PM or an email. Let me try to deal with it first. Thanks.

Well, I think it should be worked out somehow if possible but I'm not for giving a guy a chance or two before flaming the guy. That chance or two may be me and it only takes once for me.

A person should try every avenue possible to work it out but if the guy really took your money, you should let him have it with both barrels.

Jerry

The question is how many people have actually been burned by this guy? I feel if the number is more than 2 he should be exposed. This site is like a big helpful family which now has the greedy brother trying to get everything he can for himself (still like a big family as there is always one looking out for no one but himself). I feel that the people who have been burned have final say as if they want to warn other family members to stay away and not get the shaft themselves. I feel that more of the story needs to come from the people burned as to the circumstances as to how they were screwed, then if most are in agreement EXPOSE him, then Don can do his job and remove this boob from the site permanently. I dont know why anyone would even hesitate about this issue (must be by members who havent had a run in yet with this guy), but if some members want to warn other members so they dont get hosed is the right thing to do regardless. Because if I were to buy something from this guy in the meantime and got screwed, I would be not only jacked by the guy I bought the stuff from but also by the members that prevented the others from getting the word out.

Bottom line is no one likes to be screwed over and warning others about the situation is the right thing to do as this is a big family and it would be like telling your brothers or sisters hey dont buy anything from Johnny as he is a weasel and will jerk you around or screw you over. That is what I would want from family members, HONESTY and HELPFULNESS which is what they are trying to do by preventing other family members from the same fate.

Just my opinion take it for what it is worth,

Paul

As the good book says and many of us were taught: if you have an issue with your brother (he has wronged you), go to him and tell him, if that solves the issue, well and good, if it doesn't then take 2 or 3 brothers with you the next time for witnesses and more input, for your side as well as his, and if that solves the issue, ok, all is well, if that doesn't solve it, then tell him he will be turfed and if he still desires not to repent, then boot him out. This goes for hers as well as hims.

Hey, and this works. Some fix their problems, and some not, but it does keep the organization in good terms and nobody can say we are biased.

Give us the name of the Thief! As it stands now, I will not buy from anyone posting in the classifieds! Its the old saying, 1 bad apple...

Leonard

First of all folks...let's see what kind of responses I get. Maybe there is an illness, maybe something else has happened which will help us to better understand, if not excuse, what is going on.

I have been in contact with all parties but am awaiting a response from the seller. In the meantime, until this is resolved, I have removed all ads by this particular seller so you need not worry about the classified listings as they now stand.

Hopefully we can get this resolved soon.

I think the identity and facts absolutely must be shared with all members - to do otherwise puts us all at risk and is irresponsible.

BUT... how to do this without destroying our community can be a little tricky. Sharing facts is not a FLAME. Here is my suggestion:

First, this should not be an open discussion or flame war - but a very tightly controlled series of posts. The parties who feel they have been wronged should write up the facts, making every effort to ensure these are just the facts, and all the facts (no emotion or editorializing). This initial post should include the identities of all parties involved. This information should be reviewed by a trio of impartial members (the "panel"), looking for assumptions and emotions that should be purged.

Once this initial writeup is approved for publishing, it should be shared with the accused before it is posted. Any response provided within a set period of time needs to be reviewed by the same panel using the same criteria - once approved for publishing, both the initial charge and defense response should be posted with an "assessment" by the panel on what, if anything, they may have discovered during this process and any conclusions they have developed on their examination of the facts as presented.

No responses to these posts should be allowed, either in the initial thread or any where else on the forum. If someone else not directly involved in the issue feels s/he has pertinent information that should be shared, s/he should submit it to the panel for review and a decision on how it should be included, if at all.

The process I described above is a bit simplistic (in the interest of brevity), but I will be happy to have further discussions or participate in any way in which I may help. I hope we can clear the air on this issue soon.

Goose

First of all folks...let's see what kind of responses I get. Maybe there is an illness, maybe something else has happened which will help us to better understand, if not excuse, what is going on.

 

I have been in contact with all parties but am awaiting a response from the seller. In the meantime, until this is resolved, I have removed all ads by this particular seller so you need not worry about the classified listings as they now stand.

 

Hopefully we can get this resolved soon.

Don, I applaud your effort and search for fairness, but this is not the best approach. Who is to say that this individual has not already created a new identity (or five new ones) on our site and is already laying another trap for our members? Of course, that presupposes that the individual is a bad actor, which may not be the case, but how are we to know? Are you going to try to constantly review every new classified in real time looking for similarities and making an instantaneous decision on what to purge and what not? I think not.

Only by having the facts, including what was being sold, addresses and other contact information, etc., can I possibly try to protect myself from future repeats of this problem. If I do have that information, then I have the ability to do a little of my own research on any possible future transaction, including checking on the member history to try to identify similarities and decide if I should pursue a transaction or avoid it out of self preservation.

I am also quite concerned that you should not shoulder the burden of this issue alone - you do way too much for us already. Let someone else take this one instead of you being forced to always be in the center of a controversy. Thank you so much for everything you do for us, but you do not need to do it all!

Goose

Come on family members.. lets give Don some space and let him inquire about what happened and why..

Don has been sick and doesnt need all this... let it ride for now..

Don has already posted he has contacted the seller and is awaiting his reply..and Don has removed the itmes this seller had in the classifieds..

GIVE DON A BREAK ...

Now wouldnt you really feel bad if something drastic happened to the seller and here we are dogging him for not replying...come on now.

we are all grown ups... patients..

I say, lets hang him by the closest tree! Then we can give our horses beer while we drink whiskey! Yea!!!

Leonard

There have been two instances where I sold something to members here and when they told me they would send me the money, I sent the items to them the same day even though I didn't have the money. I would never do that with anyone except members of this site. If someone has violated this trust and they have a chance to explain their side and it's obvious they cheated everyone here needs to know their name and they need to be banned from this site.

First of all folks...let's see what kind of responses I get. Maybe there is an illness, maybe something else has happened which will help us to better understand, if not excuse, what is going on.

 

I have been in contact with all parties but am awaiting a response from the seller. In the meantime, until this is resolved, I have removed all ads by this particular seller so you need not worry about the classified listings as they now stand.

 

Hopefully we can get this resolved soon.

I totally agree with you Don. I firmly believe in a diplomatic solution if at all possible. If resolution cannot be obtained, then other avenues may be explored.

V7Goose seems to be on the right track. IMHO

I suppose......it is hard for me to believe any one on here is deliberately doing something like this.

...why? Isn't this site absolutely free? Can't anyone join? Are there any qualifications or requirements to become a member?

I sent the items to them the same day even though I didn't have the money. I would never do that with anyone except members of this site.

...why? Does this site have more stringent requirements to join than other sites that you'd "never do that" on?

Tell me if I'm missing something here.

On the other hand, I'd never ask "why" if you've seen the man in his home, or after you've shared a mile or two on the road with him.

I don't know any details about the transaction. Maybe the guy deserves to be flamed but maybe not. I need to tell a story about a guy who works for me. He is trying to sell his car. He had a guy that absolutely wanted to buy it and was going to come by last Friday to see the car. He turned away other prospective buyers because of this sure thing. The guy never showed up. The guy who works for me was (apparently) rightfully p***ed. He called the guy on Saturday and Sunday and couldn't reach him. He finally gets ahold of him on Monday and lets him have it. As it turns out the guys daughter was killed in a car accident on Friday.

Before you judge - make sure you know what you're talking about!

I have had dealings with the member in question on thsi thread. My 1st deal went smoothly and woth out a hitch. The 2nd deal the party changed his mind, but nothing was lost or gained. So, I guess no harm no foul.

Don is handling this the right way. Don, you me PM me if you like and I will relate me dealings. I would guess that there are some severe personal problems.