Starter drag even after batterry cable upgrade

I've been sufferring from starter drag for a while. It would sound like there wasn't enough juice to turn the starter over and all of a sudden it would catch and fire up. Didn't seem to matter if the bike was hot or cold.

I did the battery cable upgrade and it didn't seem to make any difference. But lately it seems to be getting worse then ever and now one or two starts will completely drain the battery down.

I pulled the starter out and tested it and it spins fine under power but when I put the starter back in place, same problem.

Any suggestions?

When you have the starter out, it will spin fine since they have no load that stops it.

Probably will fly, but under real work if there is any coil problem or bad contact with the brushes you will see the difference.

Take it out, check dirt, check brushes, and clean all dust that the carbon deposits on the rotor. that also can create some shortcuts. Suggestion: replace the brushes for new ones.

If that doesn't solve the issue, you need to consider to fix the rotor.

Regards

There are three cables. Did you change all three? Try by passing the solenoid. Maybe the contacts in it are burnt. Might very well be the battery is getting weak or was weak even when new. I put one of those Odyssey gel batteries in my bike and it made a big difference in starting, both when cold and hot.

Dick

Be careful when running the a Direct Current Machine such as Starter or Generator without Load. It can(in Fact it will sooner or later) start to self induce and will run faster and faster until it disintegrates, even without Voltage applied. That won't be funny and i wouldn't be around when this happens.

I'm not sure if it may help on your Problem, but here's what i said about a Starter Issue ... no Feedback final from Jeremy so far, but anyway

.

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showpost.php?p=245886&postcount=4

Yeah. Go to the link from Squeeze, then click the "thread" in the upper RH corner and check out what I did based on what Squeeze's source recommended. Of everything I found, pretty much all was in good working order and looked OK except for the internal starter ground which looked weak. I did also clean out the brushes, grease the bearing, measure everything which was well within spec, and solder some of the battery cable ends.

I haven't tried mine yet as I'm doing a fair bit of maintenance on the Venture, interrupted by fixing and upgrading my failed shop air system, supervising the painting of my house, garage and shed, playing in the band, wife, 4 kids, work and life. I hold high hopes that the starter will crank like a banshee once it's back on the road.

You don't have to guess if your cables, solenoid etc are the problem. Measure for voltage drop. First, connect the volt meter to the pos batt terminal and the starter power lug. Now watch it as you crank the starter. It will display total voltage drop in the hot leg of the circuit. I'd say "normal" is maybe a half volt. Much more than that and you're wasting power as heat in bad connections, bad solenoid contacts, etc. If you measure high voltage drop, isolate the problem by measuring from the batt to the solenoid, then across the solenoid, then from the solenoid to the starter. Do the same on ground - measure from neg terminal to the starter body. (The only thing this doesn't check is the internal ground mentioned earlier.) On the ground side you should have more like .2 volt drop or less methinks.

Dragon, you didn't mention the state of your battery. Do you know it's good? That's probably the most common source of this problem, since it's a regular maintenance item.

Jeremy

There are three cables. Did you change all three? Try by passing the solenoid. Maybe the contacts in it are burnt. Might very well be the battery is getting weak or was weak even when new. I put one of those Odyssey gel batteries in my bike and it made a big difference in starting, both when cold and hot.

 

Dick

It has a new Odyssee battery reading 12.95 volts fully charged. Now battery fully charged and solenoid clicks but starter doesn't turn at all.

It has a new Odyssee battery reading 12.95 volts fully charged. Now battery fully charged and solenoid clicks but starter doesn't turn at all.

Yeah. Go to the link from Squeeze, then click the "thread" in the upper RH corner and check out what I did based on what Squeeze's source recommended. Will Do.Of everything I found, pretty much all was in good working order and looked OK except for the internal starter ground which looked weak. I did also clean out the brushes, grease the bearing, measure everything which was well within spec, and solder some of the battery cable ends.Resoldered cable end when replaced cables

 

I haven't tried mine yet as I'm doing a fair bit of maintenance on the Venture, interrupted by fixing and upgrading my failed shop air system, supervising the painting of my house, garage and shed, playing in the band, wife, 4 kids, work and life. I hold high hopes that the starter will crank like a banshee once it's back on the road.

 

You don't have to guess if your cables, solenoid etc are the problem. Measure for voltage drop. First, connect the volt meter to the pos batt terminal and the starter power lug. Now watch it as you crank the starter. It will display total voltage drop in the hot leg of the circuit. I'd say "normal" is maybe a half volt. Much more than that and you're wasting power as heat in bad connections, bad solenoid contacts, etc. If you measure high voltage drop, isolate the problem by measuring from the batt to the solenoid, then across the solenoid, then from the solenoid to the starter. Do the same on ground - measure from neg terminal to the starter body. (The only thing this doesn't check is the internal ground mentioned earlier.) On the ground side you should have more like .2 volt drop or less methinks. Good info I'll do these checks in the morning.

 

Dragon, you didn't mention the state of your battery. Do you know it's good? That's probably the most common source of this problem, since it's a regular maintenance item.

I bought a new odyssee battery early June. The battery fully charged is reading 12.95 volts.

Jeremy

I'm thinkiing failing solenoid. I did not replace the negative to engine ground cable cause it looked and checked out ok when I replaced the other two. But, it is a #6 where the other two are # 4's

Be careful when running the a Direct Current Machine such as Starter or Generator without Load. It can(in Fact it will sooner or later) start to self induce and will run faster and faster until it disintegrates, even without Voltage applied. (How does that happen???)

That won't be funny and i wouldn't be around when this happens.

It already ain't funny

I'm not sure if it may help on your Problem, but here's what i said about a Starter Issue ... no Feedback final from Jeremy so far, but anyway

.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showpost.php?p=245886&postcount=4

Sounds like starter melt down to me. Does it like go nuclear. When I tested it I just ran it for a few seconds to make sure it was running.

Thanks for the info

How does it happen ? ...

 

 

Sounds like starter melt down to me. Does it like go nuclear. When I tested it I just ran it for a few seconds to make sure it was running.

 

Thanks for the info

The magentic Force in Combination with Electric Power starts to induce Current into the Armature. The Armature starts to turn and without Load, depending on the Drag in Bearings or Seals the Armature will have gained enough Power to keep on running even if you shut down the Voltage. But not only it will keep on running, it will start to spin faster and faster to the Point where the the Armature can't keep himself togehter. Then it will disintegrate, explode, literally. I've seen Pics of such Scenes and this is a Disaster.

Running a DC Machine for a few Seconds isn't a big Deal, but i said this to aware you and someone else of this Situation.

Maybe the Starter melted down, maybe the Starter Solenoid is the Culprit, or the internal Ground Connection. Needs further Investigation. Not nice after you put put someone else's Bike back into Duty, but it could be worse ... Starter isn't the worst to work and repair on.

The starter solenoid checked out, everything else checked out. Took the starter off and opened it up and found that it had an internal melt down with bits of what looked like solder chunks stuck in it. The parts bike had a good looking starter so I opened it up cleaned it checked it out and put it back together.

I'm pretty confident that that was the problem. I'll know for sure when I put it back together this morning.

Thanks for yall's help and input.

on to the next problem.

The magentic Force in Combination with Electric Power starts to induce Current into the Armature. The Armature starts to turn and without Load, depending on the Drag in Bearings or Seals the Armature will have gained enough Power to keep on running even if you shut down the Voltage. But not only it will keep on running, it will start to spin faster and faster to the Point where the the Armature can't keep himself togehter. Then it will disintegrate, explode, literally. I've seen Pics of such Scenes and this is a Disaster. .

sounds like perpetual motion to me.... (any closed system that produces more energy than it consumes. Such a device or system would be in violation of the law of conservation of energy, which states that energy can never be created or destroyed.)

I know it's hard to beleive, but it's true.

e.i. ...

http://www.ndt-ed.org/EducationResources/CommunityCollege/EddyCurrents/Physics/selfinductance.htm