Won't stay running

[Winddancer]

Hi All..

Well I am back to having trouble with my 2nd gen Venture..

I finally had it running nice thanks to everyone here, until now..

As I was riding into a charity ride, it started to stutter like it was running out of gas, I was getting low, but thought I had more, but switched to reserve anyway and it went back to normal.. I flipped thru my odometer and saw I should have at least fifty more miles before reserve so I switched it back to test and all stayed good.. stuttered a few more times but nothing big, figured I may have gotten bad gas.. filled up at a different place all was good for the day, then the week no stuttering until yesterday it acted like it was out of gas again, but it was full, I know, because I just filled it...

it would stutter then go, just as if I was out of gas and switched to reserve, it did this all the way home (35 miles highway) but kept up the speed..(70)

so I thought my fuel pump was going, so I drained the carbs, made a B-12/Techtron mixture, pulled the fuel line put it in the mixture bottle,turned the key, and it sucked it up just fine.. started it up, it ran ok at idle, I can see it drawing down the mixture as it ran, so it seems all is OK with the fuel system.. left mixture in in to do some cleaning while I went to do some more eliminating, next I went to the plugs, header pipes hot after start, good spark, tightened one wire.. fired it up.. all seemed good...put the fuel line back on the gas tank, turned fuel on, started it up, let it idle a few while I got my helmet, then I hopped on to take it for a test, turned the throttle, it bogged down and died..

would not start again unless I pulled out the choke, and then it would only idle at normal speed, try to turn the throttle, and it just bog's down and dies.. the engine is also sounding really clunky, but not sure if it is just because it is warm and I am using full choke or it is actually a symptom of the problem..

I am unable to start it at all without the choke on full..

the only thing that had been done to the bike work wise, before the symptoms started to appear was I swapped a seat of LA Chopper exhaust to a set of OEM road kings and according to the thread it is a number that doesn't have the cat, and it is not drilled but still fully stock, I did also balance the carbs after that..

I did notice a month or so ago, I was needing to use the choke, more and more to get it to stay running, but after a minuet or so, it would run fine, that is actually why I swapped the muffler since that symptom showed up about a month after I installed them ..

I also checked here on the forum for anyone who had this, one was the battery, so I tested it, got good numbers sitting and good numbers running, so that's all working correctly.. next was vacuum caps so I taped them all off, made sure they were sealed..

still wont start without choke..

So, here I sit, lost for a test to try, and I am not sure what is going on with my bike..

So I will bring it here and see if any of you have a clue..

Thanks in advance for any advice or help..

Chuck

[Prairiehammer]

Perhaps it's the fuel filter?

Also, have you noticed if the tank gasps for air when you remove the gas cap?

To me it sounds as if you have a fuel delivery problem.

Check the tank vent lines for kinks.

Check the fuel delivery lines for kinks.

Seems unlikely, but maybe you disrupted something when you changed mufflers?

[Monty]

Most fuel petcocks have a screen on them, inside the tank. Drain your tank, pull the petcock out & check it.

[Winddancer]

thank you for the reply..

I did check for the sucking sound and didn't get it when I filled up after it started the first time.. all lines are good too.

I am running the fuel mixture out of a can, so there can be no vapor lock (for lack of a better term) or petcock issues and the problem persists..

I was thinking filter also, but, isn't it before the pump?? and if the pump if filling the carb bowls, the filter should be good...

also in my testing, now bike with full choke will start with the normal high rev burst then die. will not idle anymore..

I cant imagine 4 floats crapping out at the same time..

but then again, I did have two coils die hours apart from each other..

so my bad luck is attracting strange issues..

Edited August 15, 2014 by Winddancer
reply to monty

[Monty]

" I drained the carbs, made a B-12/Techtron mixture, pulled the fuel line put it in the mixture bottle,turned the key, and it sucked it up just fine.. started it up, it ran ok at idle, I can see it drawing down the mixture as it ran, so it seems all is OK with the fuel system"

 

This was bypassing the petcock, and you said it ran fine...until you hooked the hose back to the tank.

[Winddancer]

Yes, sorry, I left that out of my explanation

after it died out, I did think of the tank and put it back on the mixture in the can and tried running it from there to help alleviate that problem and it dies..

and now it is still on the line in the open can and it wont even idle anymore, just starts and dies, tried re-draining the carbs and turning on key and again and the pump filled the carbs back up, even left the drain open to see and yup, turn on the key ,pump runs and mixture runs right out the open drains..

[Prairiehammer]

Perhaps your mixture is too rich with B12/Techron (not volatile enough).

Drain the mixture from the bowls, reinstall the fuel line from the tank.

Even though the bowls are refilling, perhaps the bowls are not refilling FAST enough to sustain the engine?

[Condor]

Pull the fuel line off the tank and turn the petcock to 'on'. You should be getting fuel flow. If not it's the screen on the standpipe inside the tank. Now turn it to reserve. Same thing as above. If you're not it's the screen on the reserve inlet. You could get fuel to flow if the top of the screens are open but the bases are clogged. Either way pull the tank and clean it thoroughly. Then go buy a new petcock and install it.... If you are getting flow to the bottom of the tank then it's probably your filter which I located behind the fuel pump. and a PITA to remove...after you've moved the pump over. While your at it replace the filter and relocate it to the area underneath the saddle. Easier next time. On the air wooosh issue when removing the fuel cap. I have a few Ventures, and have never heard a wooosh. 1st or 2nd Gen. I did have a new car once that had the wooosh, but it didn't last. So I wouldn't worry about it. IMHO

[Winddancer]

I have done that with the petcock and have good flow in both positions.

I am going to pull the filter when I get home, and bypass it to see if it will run, if not I will bypass the fuel pump too and test it that way.

the mixture I am using will run the bike all day long straight out of the can, unlike seafoam,which will not run straight out of the can.. so I know that is not the issue, because I have done it this way for years..

[RedRider]

Get to the fuel pump and check the points. They are under the black cap on the back of the pump. They should be clean and cross-hatched. It can be checked without removing the pump from the bike.

 

You may have a weak pump that can't keep up with the flow.

 

Look at the last page of this thread http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=81574&highlight=fuel+pump+contacts&page=4

 

Not a great picture, but these are the points from my fuel pump. 2000 Venture, about 115k miles at the time.

 

http://2000rsv.smugmug.com/Other/Rally-Ready-Venture/i-HsLhjJw/0/M/Fuel%20Pump%20Points-M.jpg

RR

Edited August 16, 2014 by RedRider

[Winddancer]

Thank you for all the replies..

I worked on thins thing all weekend..

tested the tank, the petcock, and fuel pump..

changed and relocated the fuel filter..

checked all plugs and coils..

still not running after starting.

pulled the carbs and took them apart and cleaned everything I could figure out how to get out.. the third tube in the carb is a mystery to me, but pulled and cleaned jets and the other one.. float's, bowls needles.. checked diaphragm's ect..

used a whole 16 oz can of gumout carb cleaner..

put it all together,loosely started up, ran good, but a little rough, but way better and I could use the throttle without it dying..

it was getting let so I figure I would bolt everything down in the morning...

to cu to the chase, after I have it all together and get ready to balance the carbs, I start it and it dies, give it some choke, it starts runs for a few min and dies,

now I an right back where I started, it just dying out..

I was running out of time and needed a bike so I left the venture, moved over to the voyager for a quick easy fix, and off I went..

I didn't remember to check the points, which I will tomorrow as I am going to check the fuel pump again, it is the only thing that makes sense..

Just thought I would update this..

and see if there is a good way to test these fuel pumps except watch them pump??

[Kirby]

Bypass the pump and just see if it will run. Just make sure you have got a couple of gallons of fuel in the tank.

[djh3]

I believe as long as there is enough gas to cover the pick up it will idle. Dont know as you can actually ride it as there wont be enough fuel supplied. If the fuel pump is ka-put heres an easy fix. OK well semi-easy. not much more than replacing the going to fail again points

[Neil86]

While the engine is barely running....check for voltage between blue/black

and the black wires at the fuel pump connector.

 

Once the bike stalls you will lose power to the pump.

[Kirby]

When my pump went out I rode from my house to Macon, GA which is about a hundred miles at high speed (70+ mph) and it never missed a beat. This is a surefire way to tell if it's your pump.

[Winddancer]

I will bypass the pump when I get home..

I was originaly going to do that, but the pump was pumping, so I bypassed that..

silly, silly me..

if it is the pump.. instead of getting that list of hardware at HD or lowes,

why can't I just get this??

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MR-GASKET-42S-Electric-Fuel-Pump-/151230219816?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2336060628&vxp=mtr#ht_2399wt_1555

 

it is funny, I checked ebay for pump prices, and my favorite parts place Pinwall and guess what I found..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/04-Yamaha-Venture-Royal-Star-XVZ1300-42S-MICRO-ELECTRONIC-FUEL-GAS-PUMP-/200690784734?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2eba1a59de&vxp=mtr#ht_4134wt_943

[crowrod]

that pump saved me a lot of time and money! I was on a week long trip from Ohio to Maine when my fuel pump died on our way home in Vermont. found a Auto Zone bought it installed it in there parking lot and finish the trip.what a lifesaver.

[vzuden]

"instead of getting that list of hardware at HD or lowes,

why can't I just get this??"

 

I think I paid around $25.00 for the 42S at a local O Reilly auto parts store and your links show a higher price. The hardware is needed to connect the fuel lines and still keep the location of the new pump in the same area on the bike as the original fuel pump.

 

If not already stated, with this pump you will need to be get in the habit of turning off the fuel at the petcock when you turn the bike off.

 

There is another aftermarket pump mentioned in other posts you can use that does not require turning off the fuel

[Winddancer]

OK.. quick update the mystery deepens..

got home fuel filter was full of gas so I started, nice and normal, ran great, left it running saw the fuel filter spitting gas in, then the filter started having less and less fuel and no more was flowing in, so I disconnected the pump and jumped the two lines together with the fuel filter.. turned petcock on, no flow pulled line at petcock, good flow, pulled line at fuel filter, good flow, blew in hose and could hear the bubbling in tank, blew in other hose, heard it in the carbs, so no blockage, put all back together, no flow, I one point earlier I removed gas cap to incase it was building up suction..

so I have all good flow in individual parts but not as a whole unit.. very odd..

pulled the tank flipped it over pulled the petcock to inspect filters.. good and clean, blew in them too..put it back together put it on bike, no flow, replaced fuel filter with another one, no flow..

I cannot get fuel to flow into the filter, running or not, but nothing is blocked it just seems that once it is connected to the carbs it vaperlocks the whole system.. really strange, I even tried blowing in the fuel line at the petcock and couldn't get any air to pass into the carbs.. even running..

I am at a loss, this is just weird...

[Kirby]

If the carbs are full then the flow is gonna stop. Try opening the drain screws on the bottom of the carbs and see if fuel will flow then. If you still have the fuel pump hooked up, once you open the drain valves, the pump should try to refill the carbs. The pump will only run a few seconds and quit. You'll have to cycle the pump by flipping the kill switch off and then back on again. By opening the drains on the individual carbs you can tell if fuel is actually getting to the carbs.

[Neil86]

Have you inspected the vent hoses for the carbs....one for left carbs one for right...make sure the hose is clear (free of debris), not pinched by tank and routed fwd of airboxes in the lowers.

 

If the vents are plugged, carb pressures up and no fuel will enter.

[Kirby]

Just in case you don't already know, the fuel pump will stop flow through it if it's not running. You probably can't blow through it.

[Kirby]

OK maybe I missed it somewhere in your post, but do you hear the pump clicking when you turn on the key? If the carbs are full, open a drain on one of the bowls and let that bowl empty. Close the drain screw back off and switch the key on. If the pump is even partly working you'll hear it clicking trying to refill the carb.

[utadventure]

I've been reading along here....gut feeling.

 

Fuel line is inexpensive. Replace it, you may have a fuel line that is collapsing in on itself when suction occurs.

 

Dave

[Money Venture]

Yeah, what he said. My first thought was the line is collapsing.