oh now i read every bodies response and Miles you dont see to many of those AWD vehicles here but:no-no-no::no-no-no: we do have mountians here in LA and MS :stirthepot::stirthepot:they go up 5 ft down 4 1/2 up7 ft and back down 3 1/2 and dont bother tryin to convince them that those are just ant hills or small speed bumps i already tried i even showed a friend:shock3: the cabbage patch:shock3:, snequalimy pass:shock3::shock3:, and donner summit:shock3: it did not work:no-no-no::rotf: oh and a fyi im originaly from reading, CA :whistling:so i do know what a mountian is:bluesbrother: and i do so miss them