jasonm.

I have a trail tech, only Tach...It's junk. Won't show the RPMs properly . Shows then disappears and slow to respond ....Just not worth "my money". Basically works only on my Lawnmower. But cannot handle the juice put out by my bikes ignition. At least that's how it seems. There are better brands out there.

I compared going to Advance and my local one man shop. Advance has EXT18L AGM in stock at a good price with 1 yr. warranty replacement. But my local guy can get me a fresh AGM Yuasa for $100. The type that is activated by the customer adding the acid. Thus it has not been sitting on the shelf sulfating. Just have to decide in the next couple of days. Anyone use an AGM Yuasa or Advance EXT battery ? As for the "grounding strap" write up. I understand and see that is showing a Vmax starter. Which is painted inside and out. The black paint can make a good ground an issue. The brush plate is sandwiched in pretty tight. Making a good ground on the unpainted Aluminum body. As for the Venture starter having a grounding issue ...? I have never known it to happen. BUT I see others have done it and it's an improvement

my battery was/is a sealed battery. Really not sure if it's AGM. They are very good. I may just go to Advance Auto down the street and hope they have the AGM for me in stock. No matter what I will get an AGM.

now I know the battery is bad. Heck , it won't do a bench test on ANY starter. I suspect under heavy load it is actually "opening". Thus no real voltage. Dang it. Wish I caught this earlier. But my starter testing with starter on the bike...really has me confused. So now I will put the starters in the bike one at a time and see what happens when applying power AGAIN directly to the starter...using the car battery. Oh , all lead ends have been soldered properly ...including ground. The car battery has been charged every few months since its removal. It was never bad...just old. But, "with age comes death". Heck if my car battery is also weak...I will be jumping off the roof. But I guess it's time to buy another bike battery. Any recommendations ? my last one was Westco

Now I have the starter out and.....YOU WON'T BELIEVE THIS. Is looks like I skipped a step when testing. I failed to Test with a different battery. Which I think George suggested and maybe others here. I am pretty sure I said a tried to start, when connecting a car battery w/ bike battery. I think I said somewhere here I test w/car battery directly connected with no results.... I think. As it turns out I may have skipped this step. This morning, I pulled the starter out of both my runner and my parts bike. The bench tested both. BOTH had the same issue when bench testing with my Venture battery. WHAT...? So I took a lighter duty smaller 14Ah bike battery vs. the Venture battery. And it spun the starter like ziiiiiiiiiiinnnng. Have you ever heard of a battery only shorting inside when you attempt to start ????????? Because it sits on my bench now with 12.9v on the meter...dang it....! ALSO open up both starters. My original with aftermarket brushes looks great...the armature is spotless shinny copper where the brushes rest and the brushes are 12.5mm overall and it's amazingly clean.. The spare starter w/ original brushes does not look as nice in the "contact area"...actually looking silver...dirty. now waiting for the o-rings for starter and thermostat. Right now my head is spinning...I read back and I said...I Did test connected directly @solenoid w/car battery...? Really... jeeezzz....Oh and the car battery is good. Because it spins the starter easily on the bench. vs...the Venture battery not at all. Jeeez...it was the simplest solution and I did not see it. Anyone think I'm wrong? Or maybe the starter caused the battery to go bad. FYI_ nothing is black/burned inside it or dirty. I did a search and HBAndrew had what seemed to be the identical issue. Wonder how he made out ?

I had the SAME THING years ago. Loose brake rotor. CHeck the bolts. The spec is 14 ft/lbs with blue loctite. I just had to tighten ONE rotor. Right front I think with mine. ALso had a click on the rear wheel coming from the "fingers" that hold the wheel splines. At every rear tire change, I have found PJ1 black chain lube can get in there and do a good job w/o disassembly.

So now I know they are not too expensive on Ebay. Yes, I have dealt with Pinwall. But was/is it ALL 2nd Gens that use the 4 brush since '98 ? or was it earlier ? or later they started ?

This time,I have not opened my starter up YET. I was just saying earlier that I replaced the brushes 6+ years ago @ approx.70k, because it was slow even cold. I found it really dirty inside. I cleaned everything up to "spec." properly greased the bearing and bushing. I was careful Undercutting the segments(grooves) , etc. So this is a real surprise. When I open it up.. I will let you all know what I find. At least I have not smelled obvious smoke or seen it. Or maybe I did but it might have been the battery poles arcing attaching the booster cables... FYI- in 5 years the price of copper has more than doubled, and same for the price of starters and stators. So a new one might be $400. WHAT was the first year for the 4 brush unit ? So I can look for a used one...if I need to.

before you 4 brush starter.................so...how did you know when your starter was FRIED ?

I have about 15-20k on these brushes. Did you have massive power draw symptom like me ??? HERE'S another odd thing. Looking at the OEM service manual. The overall length of the brushes...NEW 12.5mm...limit 5.5mm. I measured the old ones from 6+ years back. They measure 12mm...@70k. Is this possible ? Somehow I think the way they measure may be misprinted.

I got them from Dennis Kirk many years ago....I think the package said made in Japan...NOT China . So I hoped/thought they were good. If I look long enough I could find the original package. now 2 hours later... OH, I FOUND THE PACKAGE from the replacement brushes. the "made in" is blank. I peeled off the Dennis Kirk sticker to find "Rick's Enterprises" under it. Also no "Made in" listed. My OEM brushes still in the small box are only approx. 1/2 worn. What were the symptoms of YOUR cheap brushes causing failure ???

20+ years with this bike. yes the 4 brush starter is better. But I never had a slow crank issue till the battery was weak or the starter was loaded with dirt from the brushes. I likely cannot afford a new starter. I suspect they are very expensive new...price of copper and all. Looking for a used one. What was the 1st year the 4 brush was used ???? So my spare 2 brush, or a me doing a rebuild is likely .

I also own a Yamaha Vision. They have issues with OIL in the starter because the starter sits LOW. Not likely but.. Maybe I just have some oil in the starter... and the brushes are wet. The simplest would be finding the starter lead damaged somewhere siting against the frame. I can see a long painful weekend happening.

You are correct..."shorts" cause big amps. The bike did start but only with BOTH batteries together. I had the throttle cables unhooked. But it idled @600 cold for half a minute. So the engine spins once started

I did all of what you state last time the starter was out 6+ years ago, when I changed the brushes. They were not wasted but had a lot of dust in the starter. So this really has me baffled. I will check the starter grounding. I think someone posted how to make sure the "ground brush" is grounded by running a wire out while it's apart. I am leaning towards likelyhood...the stud lost a good connection. At least the parts bike has a working starter.So I should be able to fix this. If I remember correctly. I have the remove some "plumbing" to do this?

Well, you are absolutely accurate. That short idea, seems to be the issue. I disconnected the starter lead at the solenoid. Solenoid Problem gone. The starter must be drawing massive amps. Enough that it won't turn and cause the relay(s) to click rapidly. The starter barely turns using a charged car battery connected directly. And won't even turn with the bike battery. With them paralleled together, it's barely enough to start the bike. Man this starter worked great for along time. I will tap it lightly with a hammer before my final drive to change the oil. Might help. Now the hassle of taking it out. Anything I should check before I remove it ???

latching ....meaning as long as the button is pushed...no sound be heard beyond the initial "click". Thanks for that simple test...remove the wire to the starter at the solenoid. I should have thought of that. Simple trouble shooting is ALWAYS a process of elimination. it's late here...time for sleep. I will update ASAP

***The issue is the starter solenoid NOT completely "latching".***It's something really whacky...I attempt to start and the starter solenoid makes rapid ticking even when bypassing the starter switch. The voltage drops to 10v or less and stays their till I turn the ignition off . Then turn it on and it's 13v again. But the cycle starts all over when I try to start.This never happened till this problem showed up. I think I have a power drain, bad ground to something while attempting to start. I do not have the original fuse block. It's been upgraded to blade type with all terminals soldered. Most, not all starting wires have been soldered. But the issue is the starter solenoid NOT latching. I believe due to low voltage or bad ground. Q: What's dragging the voltage down ? And also even though the engine does not turn over...the tach bounces. I put new brushes in the starter at 70k. I cleaned the armature, etc. The starter always worked smoothly. The ends were carefully greased. Could a bad starter cause all these things...low voltage etc. Should I take a hammer to it to see if the brushes are frozen(which I doubt). I don't ever hear the starter move because the solenoid just ticks away. So maybe the starter thing is just what I remember about old cars.

stated at the very beginning the solenoid was changed. I did not say my battery to be new. But sitting for a week or more w/o charging I have 12.9v before turning on the ignition. So I believe it's good. I have had weak batteries before on this an other bikes. But none gave me the solenoid rapid clicking on both solenoids. Swapping the starter switch made no difference. I did try the bypass at the blue/white wire in the harness. It also made ...little difference. Swapping the 41R relay...no diff. Of course I do not know the spare 41R relay to be good. One thing I failed to mention. It did this exact scenario 2 Sundays back. I walked away to get tools. And before tearing into things. It started right up. And had no problem till this past Sunday first thing in the morning. I am questioning the silly main harness wire from the battery. It has WHITE spade ends to make the main fuse assy removable. I never liked this design. I might do a by-pass of the main fuse test...I have lots of heavy gauge wire to do this. Any other ideas or things you have seen...would be appreciated. Oh...one more thing...I have been an electronics tech for 30+ years and this has me questioning my sanity.

I found 41R...swapped it... still same issue. I know the starter switch from the parts bike is good

the only other one that is similar is the one at "12 o'clock" directly in back of headlight but high. But it says "reserve lighting". Not even easy to remove off a "stripped" bike. IT'S NOT THE STARTER SWITCH. Just replaced it with a known good one. SAME machine gun sound from starter solenoid! Still searching for that 41R...HELP

That 41R...does that have a green plug on it? That seems like the quickest swap for me to try off the parts bike. And need to do one more ride before putting it to sleep for the winter.

I have ONLY done the first one, using the blue/white, right at the starter solenoid/relay...next to the battery..click , click, click a few times. Using the key then all is dark WHILE TRYING TO PRESS THE START BUTTON. Wait 2 minutes...all lights work in the "ON" position. Till I push the starter button and all goes out...and this repeats with no engine cranking. That's a great write up. I tell everyone dielectric grease is an insulator and must be used sparingly. It's not really for contacts. I like Radio Shack spray it etches and lubricates. Dielectric in "Webster's" ....... "ability to insulate, stop electron flow". Again great write up. Thanks

doing the "jumper" BLUE WIRE TEST.....as stated before , I get the relay clickng rapidly(machine gun sound). But with the relay OFF the bike it passed alll tests. But changed it anyway. Left side switch assemby DOES NOT LOOK LIKE IT'S MENT TO BE DISASSEMBLED. Getting to the starter switch at the bottom ...UGH! So I think it swap it all over from the parts bike I have. Oh, What's the 41R relay you mention. The starter solenoid or another relay?

I looked at the schematic..the starter switch controls the starter relay and dash lights + headlight...so I guess the manual makes sense. I did try to spray some radio Shack contact cleaner in the switch> no change. Wow, this could have left me stranded. I have a parts bike. Is there a way of getting at JUST the starter switch ? Changing out the right switch assy. is no fun. Just thought maybe there's a relay by the headlight in there possibly instead , or also to blame ?