BigLenny

Okay, Where do I begin? Right after my last post on this thread, injured my shoulder by falling into a ditch while weed trimming on our property. I had injured this shoulder about a year ago, and it has a torn rotator cuff that I have been nursing since. Well, this most recent fall damaged it to the point I spent a week dragging it around, and could hardly raise it. due to this, I moved our western trip from the first week of September to last week, AND, I made the decision to take Teresa'a new Murano, rather than fiddle with all of the stuff it takes to go on the bike. This, my friends, was the absolutely correct decision. I hate to admit this, because we love riding the bike, but, riding in the Murano made this vacation one of the most enjoyable road trips my wife and I have ever taken. Did we miss the bike? You betcha! But, in the shape that I was in, the Murano wound up being soooooooo comfortable, and we just flat out enjoyed being relaxed for miles and miles. And, don't even get me started on how much I enjoyed that new fangled feature called Adaptive Cruise. God, I loved that feature!!! I'll never buy another vehicle without it. Even though we missed CTFW'ing, we sure enjoyed FTFT's (Following The Front Tires). LOL. Anywho, After I get all of the pics downloaded, I'll follow this up by posting a trip report. Oh, BTW, We saw a boat load of bikes while taking our Tour de Colorado, and by far the brand we saw the most was BMW. Not even close to any other brand. Everytime I turned around, I saw a Beemer of some sort. Mainly GS's, but a lotta R1200RT's. Big Lenny

Pucster, You and I both know we were just pokin fun at each other, but I fully agree with your decision to call a truce to this debate. Sure don't wanna cause any undo angst among the fellow family members. Now, I might just hafta plan me a trip up to that gorgeous region of the country called Michigan (Indian word meaning God's Country), and take you up on an old fashioned, hot dog grubbin, debate to end all debates. LOL. Truthfully though, I'm not much interested in the debate part. It's the visiting, and the HOT DOGS that will be like a moth to a light for me. I'm 6'6", and 300lbs. It takes a lotta fuel to motivate this bag o bones, you better pack a few more dogs when I come to town. Big Lenny

Now, see there Bongo? See whatcha did? You went and brought a "reasonable question" into this mess and threw the whole dang conversation off the tracks. LOL.

Vaz, Thats the very point I'm trying to make! It's a 5 year warranty! That makes it better than any other offer out there. Whew! This reminds me of my days when I was a Sunday go to meetin guy. Folks used to really get into the deep woods arguing about how many persons are in the Godhead, whether there is 1, 2, or 3 up there. They were all saying the same thing, but splainin it different! Bout drove me crazy! LOL. I just finished reading the entire YES contract. Nowhere in the documents does it mention that it is a warranty that is backed by an outside of Yamaha contractor. It does, however, state that it IS backed by Yamaha. This is a major difference than when you are buying a car (as somebody had compared this to). When you buy a car, and then you buy an extended warranty that is owned and back by the manufacturer, the warranty paperwork will actually have the verbiage that is a Ford, GM, Nissan, etc, warranty. But, sometimes, dealerships will try to make extra profit by selling a warranty that is owned by an outside entity, and that warranty paperwork will actually have the name of the warranty company you will be working with attached to it. Puc, by Vaz asking you the question "what's the difference?", he is solidifying the case that the bottom line is, there is a 5 year warranty on the bike, while the competition doesn't have that. And by make that case, Vaz has simultaneously snatch the +2 and +1 that you gave yourself, and returned it to it's rightful owner................Big Lenny. LOL!

Du-Ron, my Brother, You are seriously hindering my chances of winning this debate i have going with Puc Meister. LOL!!!! Big Lenny

Wait a minute! Pucster, Doesn't Vaz's post lean toward a confirmation that the extended warranty will act just like the factory warranty, which in turn makes me +1 on our discussion? Big Lenny

Sorry about the mistype. I meant Road Glide Special, not Ultra.

Puc, Thanks for the link. Thats a good first look article. It did mention in the article that it was competing against the Harley Road Glide Ultra, as I had mentioned before. FYI: There was no Suzuki advertisement on my screen when I read the article. A Chevron ad followed me all the way down the page. What was the word Suzuki used? Big Lenny

Pucster, it is an honor and a pleasure to see your complementary words. Especially knowing how truly feeble the gray matter is that floats around in this old noggin of mine. However, my self esteem will be fleeting, because I know as sure as the wind blows in South Dakota, I can count on you to be returning with a well thought out angle to this subject that will blow my observations right down the river, never to be seen again. I can just picture you right now, even as i'm typing this, you are sitting on your couch, laptop perched perfectly in front of you, your fingers twitching over the keys on the keyboard, waiting for those perfect words to flow right through that big ol brain of yours, so you can bring the wisdom needed to this conversation. I will take you up on the hotdog offer, though.

WOW! This is gonna get interesting! I would almost bet that this bike will sell more than the Venture, given the fact that there are a ton more bagger riders out there than there are full boat touring riders. The list price on these bikes, as well as the Venture is certainly an issue with us who are traditional Japanese bike purchasers. But, Yamaha will get the price down where it is considerably less than the sticker. They'll start offering substantial rebates and incentives to get the pricing down where it needs to be. When you're a seller of products, it's marketing 101 to start high on your price, and work your way down as the market presents the need. If you start your asking price substantially lower than the major competitors, you have voluntarily given up profit that you might have been able to make. And, the other thing you risk is; appearing to be a cheaper built product that your competitor has. That is what I think has happened to the Kawasaki Voyager. When it came to the market, it was so under priced, it raised the question of if it was built with less quality than the other bikes. Now, to address the Harley comparison that our wisest of ol sages, Your Highness The Pucster, made in the previous post: Comparing it to the standard Road Glide, and Street Glide models is certainly a discussion that can be had, however, this new Yamaha entry is identically marketed at the 2018 Road Glide Special, with all of the blacked out wheels, frames, exhaust, and a bunch of other matte black trim that both the Harley and Yamaha bike are offering. So, having said that, right off the bat, when you look at the page on the HD site that has the 2018 Road Glide Special, it clearly says, "Starting at $26.299.00" That is $2300.00 above the new 2018 Yamaha Star Eluder. I didn't get into the meat and potatoes too much, but at quick glance, I noticed the Harley doesn't offer that bike with lower fairing trim, which we all know is not only a benefit for traveling in bad weather, but offers more storage room. Pricing: The 2018 Yamaha Star Eluder GT is listed at $23,999.00. That includes everything. The 2018 HD Road Glide Special is listed at $26,299.00, but choosing a standard color bumps it to $26,799.00. (If you choose the hard candy paint it bumps it to $29,299.00). This initially results in a difference of $2800.00 in price between these two bikes with standard paint. However, there is one final difference, and in a lot of folks minds it will make a difference in there purchasing decision: Warranty! I called the local HD dealer, and they very kindly informed me that a brand new HD comes with a 2 year unlimited mile warranty. I asked them what could I expect to pay out of pocket if I wanted to extend that warranty to 5 years? Their answer was it would cost approximately $3000.00. That pushes the difference in these two bikes to $5800.00 if you compare apples to apples. Of course there are a ton of folks that will flop down the extra $5800.00 so they can be accepted as being a member of the HD cult. But, I would guess, there are plenty of fiscally minded folks that will opt for the Yammy. FYI: If the choice was to go with a bat wing bike instead of the fixed wing of the Road Glide, the 2018 HD Street Glide Special lists for $25,999.00, so, it would be roughly $5500.00 more than the 2018 Star Eluder GT, once you add the extended warranty. Just my thoughts. Big Lenny

Dude! Wouldn't it be cool if it IS a new Tour Deluxe?

That is a very valid question, Puc. I'm not sure I have a good answer. But, I guess the main thing I'm thinking is; the path is littered with Harley wanna be bikes that HD has shot down. So many times manufacturers try to go straight after Harley with bikes that are styled almost exactly like them. That hasn't really proven to be successful. I think Victory was doing well, and could've done even better if they would've kept progressing their bikes with technology updates, and such. But, they bought Indian, and as the good book says, a guy can't serve 2 masters very well. If they would've stayed the course with only the Victory line and made it even better each year, they probably would've been fine. What Yamaha has done is tapped into that Victory vein in a huge way. And, there isn't a person on earth that doesn't understand that Yamaha has a phenomenal reputation for quality to go with it. I think Harley is what it is because they have invented a culture that is intoxicating for a ton of riders. Riding a Harley is an experience that no other bike mfg on earth offers when it comes to the total package of bike, dealer network, gear, social network, etc. I think Polaris has decided to create that with the Indian line, and we'll see what happens. Who knows. The new Venture might sit for long periods of time in the showrooms. If it does, its gonna be a heck of a bike to buy on the cheap.

Okay, Okay, its me!!! Oh, wait, y'all weren't talking about me, were you? Oh well, might as well admit it, we have been talking about it for a few months. I even test rode both the RT Limited, and the F3 Limited a couple months back, and I gotta tell ya.........tempting.......very tempting. We keep having thoughts of how much safer and more stable they are. Also, the fact that if we were out in the middle of nowhere, and I had a health incident, Teresa would be able to drive the spyder with me on back in an emergency to get help. Been having discussions like that. But then, the brand new Venture came along. Now we have to go test ride it and see if it trumps all those Spyder thoughts.

Thanks Puc. Good read. I must say, the Kawi story and Yammy story kind of look the same on the surface, but actually, there is quite a difference. What Yamaha has done is gone full bore, top of the line, even forward thinking, design and offering of the electronics, style, and performance, with the obvious exception of using the air cooled v-twin. Introducing the easy park system, making the bike kinda of straddle the design of the victory instead of trying to match the Harley is a very smart move by Yamaha. Introducing the first full boat touring bike with traction control is forward thinking. Drive by wire is forward thinking. Heated grips, rider and passenger seats, is forward thinking. Glove friendly touch screen with GPS is forward thinking. Integrated communication system. And the list goes on and on and on. Kawasaki did none of this. Yes, they used a water cooled engine. But, the thing was such a heat producer that they had to design an under the seat blower unit to try to alleviate the pain, and it really hasn't helped that much. Right after they introduced it, my wife and I took about an hour long test ride on one. We were completely unimpressed. Right off the bat, we noticed how flimsy the saddle bag lids were, and the rear trunk lid was the same. The windshield vibrated at freeway speeds. The bike had no communications system, and no heated seats or grips. Everything about the bike felt cheap. You could tell they cut corners everywhere to sell it at a price point far below the others to see if that strategy would work. If I had been a Voyager rider, waiting on Kawi to hit the market with a wow, and they came out with that, I would've left them too. But, as we all know, Yamaha has taken a vastly different road. Everything about this new Venture appears to scream high quality. Even the air cooled motor is know to be very high quality. All of the bike magazines who have had the chance to ride it are ranting and raving about it. That was not the case with the new Voyager. The only similarity of the new Voyager and the new Venture is they are both V-Twins. Other than that, these two bikes are worlds apart. Big Lenny

I agree with most of what everybody is saying here. It all sounds reasonable and true. Technical this, technical that, mix of this, mix of that, emotion this, emotion that......it all sounds like valid reasons for why Yamaha did or didn't build the correct bike. But, I'm not completely buying into the idea that Yammy won't bring some the HD and Indian buyers over. I don't think they'll come in huge bunches, but there could be enough to offset the bleed of current Venture riders that they might lose. The whole wild card in this thing is the Victory riders. If you've taken the time to look at the Vog.net, you will see a bunch of folks that are highly pissed off at Polaris, and the thread they have created concerning the new Venture is filled with people laying praise on Yamaha for what they've created, and a large number of them are committing to test ride it, and even making statements that they would leave Victory to buy the Yamaha if they like what they see. Remember, a large segment of Victory riders are anti HD. And, they like more progressive looking bikes that have the soul of a V-Twin. If there is an influx of Victory riders who start heading over to the Venture, that could absolutely make it worth while for Yamaha. Just my humble opinion. Big Lenny

Now, see there Puc? See what ya did? Ya went and brought back some of our favorite memories from our 2012 western bike ride. Our next to last day on the road during that trip, before we headed back east to Arkansas, we were in Flagstaff. We had spent the previous day at the Grand Canyon, and had stopped at Flagstaff to spend the night before heading back east on I-40 to home. The next morning, the Holy Spirit (LOL), or some other voice rattling around in my head, mentioned to me in a still small voice, "you know what? you could run down that 89A highway to Sedona before you head back home. I know you need to get back to Arkansas, but you've never been to Sedona before, and you might as well run down there and see what all the hoopla is about". Yep, Puc, that's exactly what I remember the voice saying to me that morning. So, for some reason, I obeyed the voice, and I turned Red's front wheel south and off we went. We found our way to 89A, and.......O-M-G!!!! What a wonderful experience! we wound up staying in Sedona a couple days in a rustic little vacation house, and rode the area in complete awwww. We made the trip up to Jerome, grabbed a bite at great little cafe, and bought some stuff at the shops, including a Jerome t-shirt I was wearing just this past weekend. LOVED IT, LOVED IT, LOVED IT! The only regret I have is, we should've ridden past Jerome, over the mountain, and down to Prescott. Didn't have the time to do that. You're a memory bringer backer, Puc. Thats what you are. Big Lenny

Hey Friends, Thanks for the responses so far! It's helping me start to realize that we aren't quite as crazy as we thought we were. The trailering idea might be something i consider. WE could trailer to Santa Fe, then let the boss shop all she wants at the different establishments of shops and art galleries, then park the truck and trailer and head north on the wild blue yonder for 4-5 days. Then, when we get back to the truck and trailer, we could enjoy the fact that we have a nice vehicle to ride the couple days back home. Hmmmm. That might be something to consider strongly. Hmmmm.....

VR Friends, I need you folks to talk me off the ledge, or let me know we're perfectly normal. For a few months now, my wife and i have been planning to do a western bike ride for the first week of September. We usually do a 2 weeker, but we have planned to not be gone that long. Leave out on a Friday, and be back on the Saturday night, 9 days later. We have been talking about it a lot, and have been excited to get on the bike and make it happen. We live in Little Rock, Arkansas, and we're planning on heading out and and making a quick run out west to Northern New Mexico, Colorado, Eastern Utah, and the north eastern corner of Arizona. We did this area on a 2 week ride back in 2012, and have been wanting to go back and do some different roads. I actually have the bike pretty close to being prepared to go. We did a bike ride all the way down to Key West earlier this year, back in March, but we're chomping at the bits to take another 2500-3000 mile ride. Teresa and I have been working a crazy amount of hours this year. I have a new sales territory that has been extremely taxing to learn all the new contacts, and how they run their businesses, with a ton of travel to boot. She works for Arkansas Blue Cross Blue Shield, and she has been putting in 60hour weeks getting a new contracts division off the ground and running. It has been a crazy stressful year for us both. so, we have been looking forward to getting away on the bike and decompressing again. That is, until tonight........... We were eating dinner tonight, and the subject of the trip came up, and for some reason, we started talking about if we really wanted to completely relax on the trip, I mean totally relax, the bike isn't really what you can totally relax on. To do that, we reasoned, we would need to take her new car we bought her a month or so ago. We bought her a fully loaded 2017 Platinum trim Nissan Murano a few weeks ago, and it is a mac daddy loaded thing with heated and air conditioned leather seats, all of the fancy shmancy bells and whistles, such as a full length of the vehicle sunroof, adaptive cruise, blah, blah, blah, everything you can get. It is one comfortable and beautiful machine. The conversation continued about how if she saw a painting or something she wanted to buy while we are in Santa Fe, she could do that if we were in the Murano. And how she could kick back with her shoes off while we travel and read a book, while sipping on a drink, or study the bible like she likes to do. Or, even take a nice long nap (not that she doesn't take cat naps while we're on the bike). We even talked how we could take nice clothes and go to a show, or out to an upscale restaurant while we're on the road. WHAAAAATTTTT?????!!!!! Are we going crazy?!. We've never ever planned a bike trip, and then started leaning toward taking the car! We know a bike trip is more physically challenging than riding in a car, and we love it! And we know all of the things we won't get to do because we're on the bike, but we've always been totally fine with it because being on the bike, experiencing the wind therapy, and being in, and seeing all of nature from the bikes view WAY over shadows all of the other stuff. Thats why we ride, for crying out loud. But, for some reason, tonight, it just sounded more relaxing to take the car. Maybe its because this year is starting to wear on us. We're just flat out tired. Riding in the new car, wearing relaxing clothes and shoes, music playing, sipping on a soft drink, having a good conversation. Man that thought was turning us on tonight. I feel like a traitor to ole Red (our RSTD), who's sitting out in the garage ready to carry us. So, lets hear it. Are we going crazy? Or, are there some of you out there that feels that sometimes, it's okay to park the bike and take the 4 wheeler. I hate to give up a good bike trip. But, we're tired. LOL. Your Friend Big Lenny

Hey Don, Very well said, my friend. It is certainly a Venture. I will accept it as that, but, the non water cooling thing is probably gonna kick me out of the running. Who knows? I might love it so much after I test ride it that it plucks my twanger just enough to make me yank out the ole wallet, but I'm not expecting that to happen. The Mustang comparison is spot on, and if your a Chevy feller, they have done the same thing to the Camaro. Trends and tastes change. Its a fact of life. I for one am forever grateful that mother Yam decided to not abandon the full dresser touring market. And, when she decided to get back in it, she did it with a bang! I applaud her efforts. After all, we could all be Suzuki riders still waiting on a return of the Cavalcade. So, yes, it's a Venture. It might not be exactly what us older gents want in a power plant, but Yamaha cared enough about honoring the Venture name plate, that she re-introduced it. I think its dang cool that she did that. Big Lenny

Got all fired up about it! Our town was predicted to have a 90% coverage. Well, its amazing how much light that big ole sun can put out at 10%. Things around here got considerably dimmer, and very eerie, but nowhere near as dark as I thought it was gonna get. Now........in 7 years, the eclipse path is gonna go right smack dab over our house. That's gonna be cool! I'm already beginning to toss around a price in my brain of what I'm gonna charge tourists to park on our 6 acres. LOL.

Flyinfool, with my big happy a$$ alone, I'm pretty sure I'm pushing the land limit on the rear axle. LOL.

Thanks Du-Ron. I usually keep the 130mph fully loaded down to only one time per trip. LOL. I inspect the brakes regularly, but I only look at the bearings and axles when I take the wheels off to put new tires on them. I need to step that up.

I read Rider Magazines ride report last night on the new Venture. They absolutely love the bike, but did mention it was throwing some heat off. Every ride report i have read or watched on Youtube has mentioned the heat issue. This is exactly what we were all saying would happen if Yamaha didn't water cool the bike. All the ride reports are ranting and raving about everything about the bike, from how well it rides and corners, to how comfortable it is in the saddle, to all of the tech stuff that is on it. But, that dude appears to be a hot one in high ambient temps. They might have to address that like Kawi had to with their Voyager. Big Lenny

Randy, So Glad you didn't have anything worse than that happen. That could've been a way uglier situation! One thing that amazes me when i looked at your pictures is; I can't believe people pull those dang TimeOut trailers behind their motorcycles! That thing looks right at home behind your cool looking Miata, but man, it looks really wide and heavy to be dragging safely behind a bike. But that's just me. I get the willies when I think about dragging a trailer around behind our RSTD. It all seems to be an accident waiting to happen type thing to me. BUt, I highly admire all the folks that can do it successfully. Big Lenny

Ya know what? It's probably a miracle that during all the years of myself and my bride riding our wonderful machine across a large portion of our nation, that we haven't had a catastrophic tire issue along the way somewhere. The reason being is; I have never truly learned all of the tire load rating jargon and what exactly it means as it pertains to how much weight we can put on the bike. I am a fanatic about checking tire pressures before each ride, and also doing tire checks to make sure there isn't a crack, or dry rot, or a missing chunk in the rubber. I do this before each ride. and when we are on multi-day trips, I do it every morning at the hotel to ensure our safety. Furthermore, I never run the tire down to the wear bars. I am a fraidy cat enough that i usually buy new tires well before the worn out stage. I usually buy tires that you guys on the site here recommend, or someone I know locally who has as heavy a bike as I do recommends. So, I've never really studied the load rating stuff and what that truly means. When you see a load rating of 77, or 82, or something like that, what exactly does that mean? And when you see a max load of 908lb's, or 1074lb's, or something like that, what does that mean? Does it mean it's talking about the total weight of the bike and it's contents, or does it mean just the weight over that particular front or rear tire? Because if it means the weight of the whole bike, it's contents, and the rider/passengers, I can tell ya right now, We've been grossly over weight for 10 years on this bike. I am 280-290lbs, my wife is 130lbs, and the weight of all the stuff we pack in our saddlebags and t-bag is a lot. So, I'm fairly confident that counting the total weight of the bike, and all of the other stuff including us, we're rolling down the highway at 1400-1500lbs. Having said that, I would assume there are a lot of folks in our situation. So, please, some of you big heads (one with great knowledge) out there, feel free to enlighten me, before I get me and my beautiful she partner hurt, or worse. Thanks, Big Lenny