Freebird

Because I have seen several reports here lately about coil failures, I went searching for an easy way to test the ignition coils on our bikes. I found and ordered a Motion Pro ignition tester and it came in this week. According to our service manual for the RSV, the minimum spark gap for a good ignition spark is 8mm (.031). Now you could pull a plug, use a known good plug and test the spark but that really doesn't give a good indication of the strength of the coils. This device allows you to check the strength of the coils without pulling the plugs and the gap is adjustable so you can increase it to see how strong that spark is. You can also easily see the color of the spark. I tested it early this morning and found that it is easy to use and works very well. Just thought I would pass it on. It is inexpensive and I think it will be a great diagnostic tool. http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/tools/ignition_system_tester

Been there, Done that got the tshirt...actually the oil stained underwear...to prove it.

VMAX Rear End Swap by: Don Nelson Shortly after purchasing my Royal Star Venture in 1999, I realized that 5th gear on these things are very high. At the time, I just accepted it but after a recent trip to Colorado riding two up, pulling a trailer and fighting some heavy headwinds, I made up my mind that I was going to look seriously for a solution. On that trip, I did a little experiment. First I asked a rider of a first gen Venture what kind of RPMs he was running at 70 MPH. He replied that he was running right at 4,000 RPM. When we got back on the road, I checked my tach only to discover that I was actually running exactly 4,000 RPM in 4th gear. When I shifted to 5th, the RPMs went down to about 3200 RPM and I felt that I was really lugging the engine with the load I had and running 70 MPH. So, for a full tank of gas I stayed in 4th gear and was running the 4,000 RPMs. At the next gas stop, I checked with Bob Dakin as to how much gas he put in. Bob also rides an RSV and was running in 5th gear. It turns out that he and I need the exact same amount of gas even though I had been running in 4th gear. I knew then that the only reason I would have used the same gas as him was because that in 4th gear, I was staying in the power band of the engine, not lugging it. Upon returning home, I sent John Furbur and email and found that he does offer a VMAX rear end swap for the RSV. A few days later, my new rear end arrived in the mail and was installed a couple of days later. After getting the rear end installed and taking the bike for a test run, I am pleased to say that it does exactly what I hoped it would. I am now running about 500 RPM higher in every gear. In 5th gear, I now run 3600 RPM rather than the previous 3100 RPM. This is a good compromise between the 4,000 RPM that I had run in 4th gear and the 3100 that I had previously run in 5th. I have not yet had time to take a long enough trip to check the gas mileage again but I really expect to see an improvement when riding two up and especially when pulling a trailer also. Regardless of the fuel mileage though the increase in performance of the bike is enough that I am even willing to sacrifice a couple MPG if that is the case. I have tried various exhausts, K&N filters and the Dyna 3000 Ignition module but none of those have come close to giving me the performance increase as this rear end swap. I promised to do a write-up on the install so here it is. The truth is though, if you have ever pulled your rear end to lubricate the drive shaft, then you have really already done this job. You simply replace the stock rear with the VMAX rear. Very simple job. Since there are already instructions posted for removing the rear wheel, I will start this procedure at the point where the saddle bags, rear wheels and mufflers have already been removed. So here we are at that point. The first thing you will want to do is drain the rear end. http://www.venturerider.org/vmaxrear/100_1399%20%28Small%29.jpg Remove the one screw that secures the speedometer sensor to the rear end. http://www.venturerider.org/vmaxrear/100_1401%20%28Small%29.jpg After the screw is removed, the speedo sensor just pulls out. There is an O-Ring so you have to pull on it fairly hard. http://www.venturerider.org/vmaxrear/100_1402%20%28Small%29.jpg Remove the 4 acorn nuts that secure the rear end to the drive shaft tubes. http://www.venturerider.org/vmaxrear/100_1403%20%28Small%29.jpg Slide the rear end off. The drive shaft will come out with the rear end. http://www.venturerider.org/vmaxrear/100_1404%20%28Small%29.jpg Here is the assembly removed. http://www.venturerider.org/vmaxrear/100_1405%20%28Small%29.jpg You then need to pull the drive shaft out of the rear end. There is nothing it in except for an 0-Ring so you have to pull on it fairly hard but it will come out. http://www.venturerider.org/vmaxrear/100_1406%20%28Small%29.jpg There is a spring inserted in the rear end that you will need to remove and insert into the new rear end. It just pulls off so pull it off and install on the new one. http://www.venturerider.org/vmaxrear/100_1407%20%28Small%29.jpg http://www.venturerider.org/vmaxrear/100_1409%20%28Small%29.jpg While you have the drive shaft out, now is the time to grease it up before putting it all back together. http://www.venturerider.org/vmaxrear/100_1410%20%28Small%29.jpg Install the new rear end with drive shaft. It is recommended that you now install the rear axle, without the wheel, and do the rear end alignment as outlined in the Yamaha TSB. This procedure can be found here: http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1705 http://www.venturerider.org/vmaxrear/100_1412%20%28Small%29.jpg http://www.venturerider.org/vmaxrear/100_1413%20%28Small%29.jpg Now is a great time to grease the rear drive pins in the wheel hub. See this excellent write-up by Tartan Terror for that procedure. http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?p=117809#post117809 Now you can follow the normal procedure and re-install the rear wheel. After the wheel is installed, tighten the axle nut to 110 ft.lbs.. Now you are ready to fill the new rear end with lube. I use Mobil 1 synthetic but that is just my personal choice. As you can see, I filled the rear before re-installing the rear wheel so you can actually do it either way. http://www.venturerider.org/vmaxrear/100_1414%20%28Small%29.jpg That's it folks. You now have VMAX gearing in your RSV, Royal Star or Venture. Blue Ridge Mountain Sportmax offers the VMAX rears for all our bikes so if you are interested John Furbur at http://rmsportmax.com/gateway.html

Greasing the Rear Drive Splines and greasing the Hub Pins on the RSV By Tartan Terror NOTE: Most of us here would recommend Honda Moly60 as the grease of choice for this application. It will do a great job and last much longer than other types. First thing you will need to do is raise the bike on a lift and remove the rear tire. For these operations look for the instructions in other articles in this tech area. After you have the wheel removed lay your rear tire flat on the ground or on a surface that you can work on it with the spline side facing up (Looks like a gear). http://www.venturerider.org/hub/Image1.gif I removed the dust shield (Rubber ring around the base of the gear) but it is not necessary unless you want to clean everything thoroughly. Wipe around the top edge of the gear clean and you will find a snap ring. Look carefully because it is hard to miss. Use a pair of snap ring pliers that open to remove the ring and lift it off or gently grab it with a pair of pliers being careful not to stretch the ring. If you do not remove this ring you will be unable to remove the pins from the hub (I know this Cuz this dummy tried to do it!) After you have removed the ring pull on the gear and the pins should slide out. http://www.venturerider.org/hub/Image2.gif Once you have removed the pins clean off any rust on the pins with a piece of scotch brite so that they are smooth. Generously apply grease to the pins. I used lithium based grease but any good water proof grease will do. Below you will see a picture showing the pins, Snap ring, scotch brite pad, and dust boot ring. http://www.venturerider.org/hub/Image3.gif Reinsert the pins into the bushings and replace snap ring. Once again be careful not to stretch out the ring as it needs to fit tightly to keep it in the groove. If you removed the dust boot also replace that and make sure it is properly seated. Apply grease to the splines on the hub. http://www.venturerider.org/hub/Image4.gif And also on the splines in the differential. It will squeeze out any extra grease then you lift the wheel back up and slide the hub splines into the differential splines but here is where most of the noise is coming from. http://www.venturerider.org/hub/Image5.gif It’s as easy as that. Like I said before refer to the other articles in this section to reinstall the rear wheel. Now Get out and Ride it like you stole it!!!

You know....these are for Harleys but I'll bet they...or even Beer30...could come up with something like this for the Ventures and Royal Stars. I wonder how much it would help? http://www.rjsoriginals.com/

I've read pretty much everything you have just said and know that it is supposed to be correct. I tell you though, we can argue here forever and I can read many pages about oil but when it comes down to it, I only know what works best for me. I know that some people use YamaLube and have had good results with it but I wouldn't put it in my lawnmower. I've tried it in two different bikes and I can absolutely tell the difference between it and the Mobil 1 that I now use. I truly believe that regardless of what they tell you about the standard oils maintaining their viscosity at higher temperatures, I don't believe it. I know that with the Yamalube, when I was riding on hot days and the bike got good and heated up, the engine was very noisy and it got hard to shift. Finding first gear could get especially difficult. I do not wish to get into another oil debate. I recommend that everybody just use what they have confidence in. For me, that is Mobil 1 for Motorcycles. If I had to switch to something else, I would try Amsoil.

Since 1999 I've used Mobil 1 MX4T for Motorcycles in my '99 RSV. On our recent trip to Colorado, Bob Dakin told me that he had switched to 20W/50 (he uses Amsoil) and that his bike was running much quieter and shifting much better with the heavier oil, especially when it got hot. So...when I changed my oil last weekend, I decided to try the 20W/50 (I stuck with Mobile One for Motorcycles though, the VTwin blend). I haven't ridden it enough yet to offer an opinion on how it compares to the MX4T but will try to do that soon. If I'm not mistaken, Spud has been running this oil in his RSV for several years. Maybe he will see this and offer his opinion.

They are made of molded plastic. The company that I work for actually has vacuum molding machines and I considered at one time doing something similar. The problem is, somebody bought the patent on this unit and I don't remember now who it was. It should be easy enough though to design something else that is similar but different enough to not violate the patent.

I don't where you heard that but as far as I know, it is not true.

The only one I know of that makes a two piece seat is the Russell Daylong. I've never used one but many folks really like them. You might want to check them out at: http://www.day-long.com/new_pages/yamaha.html

LOL...should have KNOWN you would ask that. I haven't seen chrome on their site. I did see one a while back on Ebay that had been polished and it looked very much like chrome.

Eddie, I thought about and should have done some timed runs before and after the swap but due to weather and wanting to get it done, I just didn't get around to it. I can tell you for sure that it is quicker out of the hole and through all the gears. Smoking the tire? I don't know about that. Also, there have been a number of posts about what this will do to the fuel economy. As I've said, I really expect it to have very little affect and I really expect to see an improvement riding two up and pulling the trailer. BUT...if I'm wrong about that...oh well. I am so happy with this change that even if I were to lose 3 or 4 MPG, it will be worth it to me. I understand that fuel economy is important, especially with the price of gas now. Heck...I made the mistake of rolling into Aspen, CO on reserve and paid $4.10 a gallon in Aspen. To me though, the improvement in the performance more than makes up for a couple of MPG of fuel economy.

OK...I just did a little write-up on this and added it to the tech library. Hope it helps. http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?p=116327#post116327

The “Butler Mod” Installation Instructions Click on pictures to see larger versions. The components of this device are basically a Galfer steel braided brake line attached to a Speedway Motors compact adjustable proportioning valve (APV). The technical name for this is a “flow control valve” and it will allow you to "fine tune" the rear brake system and thus prevent severe rear brake lockup under moderate-to-heavy braking. If you can replace your OEM rear brake line with a steel braided replacement brake line then you can easily install this line. http://www.venturerider.org/butlermod/image002.jpg So let’s start first by evacuating the brake fluid. Take the lid off of the reservoir and then either use a MityVac at the bleed valve on the caliper to suck out the fluid or attach a clear hose that will empty into a bottle or other container, and pump the brake pedal until the reservoir is empty. Now you can disconnect the brake line from the caliper and the master cylinder. At the caliper, remove the 12mm banjo bolt and use a rag to catch and brake fluid drips. Where the line goes toward the master cylinder, you will see one hose clamp on the side of the swing arm and then another on the underside of the frame next to the AIS valve. Use an 8mm socket to remove these clamps. The hose now goes forward toward the engine behind the horn on the right side of the engine. Remove the horn so you can get to the frame hose holders, where the one to the left is up under the frame swing arm housing. This spring-like holder is not removable where the rubber line grommet can be pushed out away from you. The second line holder is a heavy round rubber grommet that is held by a frame holder that looks like a large wire. You can grab the end of this wire holder with a set of vise grips or pliers and pull the end open to where this circular grommet will slip loose. Then when you put it back in with the new line you can take a flat blade screw driver and press the end closed to tighten up on the grommet. http://www.venturerider.org/butlermod/image004.jpg One quick note on assembly. When you take this line out you will find 3 flat rubber grommets and one thicker circular one (above), all of which can be taken off and used on the new line. Just slit one side and then just peel it off the rubber brake line. The replacement steel line is a smaller diameter, so just cut about ¼” off one end and then place it on the new line and wrap it with a couple of wraps of electrical tape. http://www.venturerider.org/butlermod/image006.jpg Now you are at the frame line cover just under the right foot board. This cover is taken off by removing the two 8mm bolts that attach this cover. You now are at the adapter going into the master cylinder. The short adapter that goes into the master cylinder is a spinning collar and when the line is held by a 14mm open end wrench, you can loosen this collar with another 14mm open end wrench and it’s off. Now when you put the cover back on when you are finished, it works better if you cut the front part of the cover back 1”. You can see from the picture below that you cut it down to about 3/8” from the bottom and then across from the front mounting hole. This cutout allows room for the line coming out of the valve so that there is no pressure on this connection. http://www.venturerider.org/butlermod/image008.jpg Now you are ready to install the new line. For now just work with the line off of the valve and start by threading the line back toward the rear from the horn area at the rear of the engine. Remember there are two flat rubber grommets that go on the swing arm with one flat one that will slip into the spring holder and the round one into the wire holder, where you can press it in to hold the grommet. Once you get the line threaded through to the caliper, attach the 30 degree end to the caliper and tighten the banjo bolt with new copper washers on both sides of the line banjo hole. On the rear line, I usually use the stock steel banjo bolt just because it’s stronger than the brass one that comes with the line. That way you can torque the bolt to 20ft/lbs (the manual says 22ft/lbs which I haven’t been comfortable with). Now attach the two line holders on the swing arm. http://www.venturerider.org/butlermod/image010.jpg Don’t put the line cover on until you are finished bleeding the line and making sure there are no leaks. Next attach the proportioning valve to the master cylinder by threading the spinning collar on the master cylinder to the front adapter with the knob turned down toward the ground. The adapters on the valve side with the copper washers are already tightened. The end that goes into the master cylinder is the adapter with the course 10mm X 1.25 pitch thread. http://www.venturerider.org/butlermod/image012.jpg Just snug this spinning collar to the point that if feels firm. Now thread the end of the line to the output side adapter on the valve and snug it up. Now with a 16mm open end wrench, hold the valve and with a 14mm open end wrench tighten the collar on the master cylinder until it feels tight. Do the same thing to the spinning collar on the line end. The threads on the line collar are a finer thread so do not over tighten. http://www.venturerider.org/butlermod/image014.jpg Now it’s time to bleed the line, but first open the knob on the valve all the way open by turning it counter clockwise (like a faucet). I usually use a MityVac at the caliper bleed valve to get the fluid started to the caliper. Then I use the conventional method of (1) closing the bleeder (2) pumping the pedal a few good times (3) hold the pedal down (4) release the bleeder to let fluid through and then (5) close it. Now go back to (1) and start over until all the air is out of the line and the pedal feels good and firm. Now check the spinning collars at the valve to see if any fluid is seeping at the connections. If so, snug them up just a bit more being careful not to strip a thread. Wipe the fluid that has seeped and then pump the pedal hard and let it sit for a few minutes to see if it is still seeping. Once you are assured there are no leaks, attach the line cover. http://www.venturerider.org/butlermod/image016.jpg Now turn the knob clockwise until it stops. At this point the valve acts like a shutoff valve, so turn the knob back out two turns. You can see the color rings under the knob, which indicate how many turns you have made. If you see 2 colored rings, then the knob is two turns out. This is only a starting point because from here you need to take the bike for a ride on a good concrete surfaced street to test the braking. It’s best to use a street with not much traffic on it Get up to say 40mph or more and gently apply the brakes pressing down more and more until (1) the bike comes close to stopping or (2) the rear wheel locks up. If it locks up, release it quickly. The latter condition means that you need to close the valve more by turning it clockwise. Adjust the valve to the point that you feel comfortable with the amount of braking resulting from how far you have to push down on the pedal. When it is right, you should be able to come to a complete controlled stop at 30-40mph with just the rear pedal. Of course remember that it’s very important to use both brakes when stopping, so in addition to the rear brake, be sure to apply an ample amount of front brake to help slow the bike down the most. But I have found that just as you are coming to a complete stop, release the front and use only the rear brake to come to that complete stop. Sometimes when you use the front brake at a complete stop, it may off balance the bike as you are putting your foot down. The rear brake now becomes more settling and comfortable at stops. Once you are comfortable with the feel, it’s time to lock the knob down. I first did this with a piece of safety wire which worked well but required a small hole be drilled through the knob. But since I started working with this valve, I have found the product information on this valve from the manufacturer (Deltrol Fluid Products) where it described a set screw in the side of the knob that could be used to lock the knob in place. This set screw can be turned in with either a 1.5mm or 1/16” hex allen wrench and will keep the knob from backing off. However, I still have drilled a small hole in the knob and have included a piece of safety wire as a secondary safety measure to make sure this knob stays where you have set it. http://www.venturerider.org/butlermod/image018.jpg If you have any questions concerning this installation, you can reach me by either e-mail or phone: Rick_Butler@verizon.net 972-442-9840 Home 214-926-3905 Cell

Yes, I think he is. You can buy the parts and do it yourself but the valve outlet has to be re-threaded and etc. for the metric connectors and I found it more convenient to just let him do it. Made for a quick and easy installation.

That is exactly right....not sure about the percentages but the idea is correct. Coming back from Fort Collins, there were numerous times when I was trying to run in 5th gear but bucking a strong headwind along with pulling a fairly heavy trailer, I would sometimes find that my throttle was wide open when pulling decent inclines and etc. At other times, even not pulling a trailer or bucking headwinds, it seems that you are really lugging the engine and then when you try to accelerate, you are again pretty much at full throttle and acceleration is just very slow. In those cases, you are really better off downshifting into 4th gear but often we don't. The 500 RPM just seems to put you in a much better range of the power band. I will confirm the fuel mileage when I can and I may be wrong but based on my test where I ran through a full tank of gas in 4th gear at 4,000 RPM and got the same fuel mileage as Bob Dakin running normally, mostly in 5th, I can't see that the mileage is going to suffer. That test WAS done riding two up and pulling a trailer though.

The other thing I got done today was adding the proportioning valve to my rear brakes. This is a modification that Rick Butler came up with to make the rear braking on these bikes a bit less sensitive. This is another easy modification if you get the parts from Rick as I did. I did take pictures of the installation and will try to get a tech article posted tomorrow. Basically what this is though is a mini proportioning valve. You simply remove the rear brake line and screw this proportioning valve right into the rear brake master cylinder. You then install the new stainless steel line between the proportioning valve and your rear brake caliper. Bleed the brake and you are done with the install. The proportioning valve is adjustable. Rick sent it calibrated the same as the one on his bike and for initial testing purposes, I left it there. These things are hand adjustable and very easy to change. The first thing I did when I got a little ways down the road was to see if I would lock up the rear brake. Yep, I still can. It took more pressure than before the modification though and that is what I was looking for. To be honest, I think it actually still locked up easier than I want it to but like I said in another post, it has rained here off and on all day so it was really not a good time to be testing it. I am pretty much convinced though that this is going to end up being one of the top modifications available for our bikes when it comes to safety. Hopefully things will dry out around here a bit before the weekend is over and I can do some better testing. I may adjust it down a bit more so that it is even less sensitive yet but when I get on truly dry roads, I may find it to be fine just as it is.

OK....here is my initial report on the VMAX rear end. It has rained here off and on all day today so I didn't get to ride as much as I wanted to but did manage to get about 30 miles in just to do some preliminary tests. First of all I will say that in my opinion, this is the gearing that Yamaha should have put in these bikes. I know that the RSV was built as more of a cruiser but I think they went too far with the high gearing, especially in 5th gear. I realize that these are not sport bikes but they are not high torque VTwins either. These V4s like to rev and the need to get up some RPMs before they really find their power bands. It's almost like Yamaha tried to get that high torque, low RPM loping out of these bikes and these engines just aren't made for that. With the original rear end, I was running 4,000 RPM in 4th gear and about 3100 or so in 5th gear both of these at 70 MPH. With the VMAX rear, the RPMs are running almost exactly 500 higher at the same speed. About 4500 RPM in 4th at 70 MPH and about 3600 RPM in 5th at 70 MPH. Of course 1-3 run higher at any given speed also so you will be shifting out of the lower gears a bit quicker. I find the performance to be significantly increased with the VMAX rear. From strictly a seat of the pants feeling, it really jumps when you take off and hammer it through the gears. In more casual riding, it feels much better now when you roll on the throttle in 5th gear. Before the swap, anything below 60 MPH you just pretty much had to downshift to 4th if you wanted to accelerate. With the VMAX rear, it's not a rocket but you have decent acceleration when you roll on from 60 MPH and it's not even bad from 50 MPH. While the 4000 RPM in 4th at 70 MPH was equivalent to the first gen in 5th gear, it still seemed just a bit much .... probably because we are so used to the engine loping along at 3000 or so RPM in 5th. The 3600 RPM in 5th with the new rear end feels really good though. Doesn't feel like it is wrapped too tight and yet you still have good acceleration when you roll on the throttle. This is an easy modification. If you have a lift, you can do it. If you have ever pulled your rear end to grease the drive shaft, splines, etc., you have done it already. Same thing except you put this rear end back instead of the one that you remove. So...that's about all I can tell you for now. At this point, I am VERY happy with the results and wish I had done this 8 years ago. I am anxious to put some freeway or good state route miles on it to see what the gas mileage does but to be honest, based upon my earlier tests running in 4th gear, I really expect this to have no negative affect on mileage and even halfway expect to see an increase. I am also anxious to try it with my loaded trailer behind me. I KNOW this is going to be MUCH better in that case.

Done already. I was up at 6:30 this morning and got right on it. Took me about an hour to do the swap and that included pulling the saddlebags, mufflers, rear wheel, pulling the rear end, greasing the drive shaft, etc. All that I need to do now is put the rear wheel, mufflers, bags back on but I can't do that until the local shop opens here and I get the new tire put on. Also going to put on some new rear brake pads while I have it down. Should be able to get it out for a test ride this afternoon and report the results.

Well, I am home again and the VMAX rear was here waiting on me. I will get it installed tomorrow probably. I'm so anxious to get it done that I almost did it tonight but I'm beat and also, really want to get a new rear tire mounted tomorrow while I have it apart. As bad as I hate it, I guess I'm going to mount a Bridgestone to get me through the rest of this summer. Jerry M gave me the rear wheel and tire off his RSTD that he had left after his trike conversion. The Bridgestone tire only has about 2,000 miles on it so I figure I will just use it for the rest of the summer and then put on new front and rear tires next spring. The problem is, the wheel that he gave me is black and my Venture has the gray wheels. I have another new wheel that I bought off Ebay minus tire and brake rotor. So, I will remove the rotor off the one he gave me and put it and the tire off the other wheel that I bought. I will then sell his "like new" wheel on Ebay and send him the money.

The problem with this entire whine/chirp problem is that it is not the same sound that people complain about. The RSV does indeed use straight cut gears and though very strong, they are noisy. All of the RSV and RSTDs are going to have noisy transmissions. This is the case that I believe different weights of oils and etc. may help. I have always described this sound as that of the old granny gear trucks and etc. that when you let off the gas and let them coast down, you could hear that whine from the transmission or rear end. This is what I think Yamaha claims is normal and I pretty much agree with them. Some find it to be an irritation but that's just the nature of the beast. Now there have been a number of cases where this whine IS excessive but in those cases, it has turned out to be problems with the rear end, NOT the tranny or clutch basket. Improper rear alignment, bad wheel bearings, etc. have been the cause of that problem. The clutch basket is an entirely different sound. It is a high pitched chirping sound. I describe it as that of a canary on steroids. That is the sound that some of these bikes have and others don't. It is NOT normal. Some bikes have the problem, some don't. In those that do, the volume and RPM at which it occurs varies. This is the problem that Yamaha should be ashamed of and have tried for almost 10 years...actually longer...to deny. It is a real problem that they should have corrected. I'm not sure exactly what they are missing in quality control but I believe it has to do with the clearances in the clutch basket. It is a tolerance issue that I believe could be corrected at the factory but for reasons know only to them, they have chosen to ignore it expect for those who really complain about it.

Apparently Harley has had some complaints also. The dealer that I talked to this week admitted to me that they had a lot of complaints with the new 6 speed tranny but only in 5th gear. According to him, that is apparently the gear that most use as 6th is really an overdrive/freeway gear. He said that they do use a straight cut gear and the whine has really annoyed some people. He also said that though Harley has mentioned no changes/improvements at all that the '08s seem to be MUCH quieter. Can people on the side of the road hear it? Yes, if the clutch basket chirp is bad, they can hear it. I remember several years ago after Rick Butler bought his first second gen and came by my house in Dallas. I was out in the driveway doing something when he drove up and I heard it when he turned off the road. I already owned mine then and had heard about the chirping but had not heard it in person. That was when I knew that the sound is NOT normal and that NOT all the RSVs were afflicted with it.

Here is the firm that I used: http://www.kahnandassociates.com/office_locations.php

Folks....I understand your frustration and if you want to send letters, I promise to send one also but I can tell you that it's pretty much a waste of time. Been there and done that already. About 4 or 5 years ago, we did this exact thing. I don't remember how many letters we had but there were a LOT, we sent them "Deliver confirmation required" to Yamaha. Never got a response. Even worse than the fact that they never responded, months and years after that we had members who would call Yamaha about this problem and Yamaha would say "this is the first that we have heard of this problem". They completely refused to even acknowledge it. I am also not a big fan of class action lawsuits. It seems that they always end with the plaintiffs getting some stupid settlement such as $200.00 off the purchase of any new Yamaha bike while the lawyers end up with all the money. Sorry to say it but, in my opinion, the only way to get your issue resolved is by individual legal action. I can tell you from experience that it will take months and/or years of playing the waiting game. There are a lot of "lemon law legal firms" who will take your case for free. Absolutely no money from you up front or at any time. They will take their fee after you settle. I can recommend a firm in Ohio that did a good job for me in a similar case but remember, don't bother if you don't have the patience to see it through. It took me almost 18 months to finally get it resolved. The wheels of justice turn very slow.

There is certainly something wrong but I have no idea what. This is the first I've heard of these bikes bottoming out. Even with much less air pressure in the shock, I've never had that problem. Something is wrong and they need to figure out what it is.