greg_in_london
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Everything posted by greg_in_london
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No - I'll stick with the stock figure for now, but if it were to turn out that those models that get good mileage/mpg have carb specification and those of us with poorer figures, then this could be an area worth investigating. Well eventually, maybe. If a carb refurb yields good results, though, then obviously I'll be happy. Well we're a long way from solving the fuel economy problem yet, so maybe this thread has a few more posts left in it. -
Well the parts listed in the manual are 5FX59-1 for the needle and Y-0 for the needle jet. (that's for the L model, but I think the DL is the same) I had presumed that they were Yamaha designation, rather than Mikuni references, but I may have been a plonker and able to order the parts all along.... (I did search for them on the Mikuni site though and had no hits). I'll ring tomorow and find out. Looking at the TK specs, that uses 5GLZ37 and a X-6 needle. The numbers are so different I wonder just how similar they are. Mine has the smaller main and pilot jets - you'd expect it to be an economical model, so I wonder which carb specs people have that get good mileage - if the parts were cheaper I could experiment. [i edited the post because I thought that repeat postings can seem to be there just to push a topic to the top of the list - if something is an edit rather than a new bit of info it seems politer to do that - but maybe I was a little reticent in this case.]
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Well I've just had confirmation those needle valves are in the post and will be with me for the middle of next week (fingers crossed) so I suppose I should get the carbs taken off in readiness. That way I may be able to get the part numbers and order some emulsion tubes before the end of the week.. That might be pushing my luck, though. It would be good if I could as we're going camping for the weekend on the Friday. After next week, there won't be much time to get ready before the Summer trip and I really need some improved mpg. 30mpg (25mpg [uS]) on a three and a half thousand mile tour will hurt - even if we don't get stranded between petrol stations.
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I like to drift the bike in bad weather conditions, but that's on purpose when I've got plenty of room, not when I need to be in control because of a stationary car in front of me getting rapidly closer .....
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Sorry - but I'll have to bow out too - re-reading the posts I see that these will have a meaty sound and I do like to keep the bike quiet - I would say inconspicuous, but with the sidecar I get plenty of attention anyway.
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To answer the post. Local petrol in my cheapest stations is £1.12.9 per litre. Some places will be more than that, but I don't go looking for them... That equates to $2.25 per litre, or about $9 per US gallon, or $10.12 for a real gallon. In towns we have more speed humps and traffic lights than you have ever seen in your life, wich makes economical driving even more difficult. Mind you, I'm not going to get drawn by all the redneck comments, but once that oil is sucked up out of the ground, it will take a lot of time and a hell of a lot of fish to make more. It turns out to be difficult to make the amount of biofuel that we would need - acres of fields an all that. Try not to waste what we have.
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Okay, I'll give them a ring and report on the results. It will probably be a couple of days before I manage it, though. [update Wednesday] I spoke to the UK shop today. They mentioned some bikes that they have information for, including XJ550, XZ550 and XV535, but not the XVZ1200. They said that if I could take parts out and find numbers on them, then they could order parts, but that Yamaha (and the other Jap manufacturers) will not tell them what parts are inside the carburettors and son they can't look them up. Squeeze - have you bought any parts for the Venture from Topham ? Do they have more information in the German company or did you have to tell them the part number stamped on the part ? Did you keep a note of the parts ? I've ordered some cheap V-Max float needles from Ebay in the hope that they will fit, but really want the right emulsion tubes and needle. Does anyone have a reference for these for an '83 bike or one apart that you could check for a part number ??? Pretty please.
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and the answer from Keyster / motorrad: :headache::headache:
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Wow, Squeeze, there's a lot of information there if you download the main catalogue. Unless there's another one that I missed, though,it seems to confirm what the motocarb man said (I didn't report it all in the earlier post) - all the information is available in some form or other for the old style slide carbs, but for CV carbs they're pretty tight lipped. Maybe it's because people find slide carbs easier to tune, so they can sell them after market as tuning accessories. It could just be that the catalogue would be too big to list all models, but the man I spoke to seemed to think that there was some sort of restrictive agreement so that Mikuni didn't cut out the Yamaha dealer network and make it too easy to get the right bits. Can they tell you the part numbers for things like the float valves and emulsion tubes for our carbs, and if so, how do the 'direct' prices compare with Yamaha prices ? I presume that they sell direct. At the risk of sounding dim - I can't see how to do that - do you mean by ringing them up and asking them ? (old fashioned idea I know, but still works) or is there some way of looking it up ? [The only links that I can see for Europe (from the Mikuni USA site) are for Germany and only the one to Topham has a link. The USA site has lots of info on Harley tuning and those slide carbs, but nothing that I found on CV carbs.] :sick: and I presume that's US mpg..
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Do you mean direct from Mikuni or through a Yamaha dealer ?
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A useful catalogue ?? - one that tells you which parts fit which carburettors on which motorcycles. Mikuni have some sort of deal with Yamaha so some parts are only available via dealers and those parts are not mentioned in any of their catalogues - according to the motocarb man anyway.
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I've also been looking at these float assemblies for the V-Max and XVZ1300. The part number is the same except for the first three digits (1FK-14190-15-00 instead of 22U-14190-15-00) but that could mean they don't fit. Link is http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/YAMAHA-VMAX-VMX12-XVZ13-XV535-NEEDLE-VALVE-SET_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35597QQihZ014QQitemZ330158701712 Can anyone tell me if they'll fit ?
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Well I hadn't realised that Motorradbay is the official direct sales link for Keyster (you get redirected to the site from www.keyster.de ), but I've sent this message: Hopefully my german's not so atrocious s to put them off. I also spoke to www.motocarb.co.uk who sell mikuni spares. They may be able to help with some of the parts, but Mikuni are funny about supplying parts and don't publish a catalogue in any useful way. They'll send me a brochure that I can use to 'match' parts once the cabs are disassembled again. The leaky carbs have meant I aven't gone to the BMF show today, but from next weekend I'll have a week off to play with the beast.
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No -they're not all stupid. Seriously though, the other people with sidecars and maybe trailers are not local and don't cover much mileage. There are one or two outfits on the list, too. I checked some of the floats when I last had the carbs apart (a few weeks ago) and saw no problem there. I found it difficult to get a consistent reading when I checked the float height, though, which is consistent with worn float needles. I need to contact Keyster about those carb kits. Hopefully it will make a difference.
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Well I'm interested, but am a bit worried what the postage to the UK would be. Is that $225 per silencer or for the pair ? I'm presuming they'll be similar to the original units. Thanks for making the effort.
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Well I had been planning to see if I could get one of those Keyster kits (see post above - but they include all of the jets, a gasket and needle etc) and see about refurbishing my carbs to see if it makes a difference. I've got a week off in a couple of weeks, so that would be a good time. I had the Venture out yesterday and one of the carbs started flooding - presumably some grot from somewhere in the system - so that will be another reason for doing the whole job at once, sooner rather than later. Some of the Venture riders are going down to Spain later this year, so they will have a chance to check their mileage on the way. In about a month there will be a bar-b-q and rideout, so we may be able to fill up and compare fuel bills on the way. We've got a long touring holdiday planned for the summer - either to the Czech Republic (roundtrip ~2000 miles or more) or via a couple of extra countries, Poland and Lithuania (roundtrip 3,200-3,500 miles) and so sorting out economy is quite high on my priorities - I'll certainly be able to count the figures in some detail when travelling.
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Sorry - if that's what is necessary on an 'advanced' course then that's very worrying. If you have a problem controlling your brakes, you need to work on it asap.
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Leaking Valve stem
greg_in_london replied to Saddle_Bag's topic in Venture and Venture Royale Tech Talk ('83 - '93)
It's a simple fixing - the nut tightens up and squashes the rubber seal to make it airtight. If it's loose, then either it wasn't tightened up or some of your 'Ride On' (sorry - not familiar with the brand) somehow made it seem tighter than it was. It can be quite easy to mistake a tightening lock nut for a tightened bolt - if you're not toomcareful - I'd guess that's what happened. I don't believe that it would damage the rim, though. Possibly it might form gacky strands that affect the seal, but that's all. I'd have been surprised if tightening it up would not have cured it, but cleaning and tightening should be no problem. [Over here they used to say that finilec/tyreweld/etc would prevent an effective tube or tyre repair, but those have no effect on chrome/steel or aluminium rims.] Good job you noticed at home, not during a long run. -
Hi Squeaze, The seller is 'motorradbay', you can see the sort of kit that he sells at http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=250228600922&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=015 He also sells carb diaphragms. He didn't answer when I asked about an XTZ660 kit, but my German can be a bit garbled, I know. I also came across this site when searching for a source of carb spares http://www.nrp-carbs.co.uk/keyster_carburettor_kits.htm but I haven't contacted them yet. They seem to be selling similar kits to motorradbay, though.
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I've been looking every now and then, but they're few and far between over here. I'd still wonder exactly how to set them up to get maximum mpg, though - if I only knew for certain which settings are critical I'd make sure they were right. There's a guy in Germany who's selling carb rebuild kits for old yamahas at quite reasonable prices, but I've seen nothing listed for the Venture (or the XTZ660 either) - just XJ650s and 750s and such like. I did email him but I didn't get an answer - maybe my german was incomprehensible. Anyone got any good sources for buying carb jets etc without paying OEM prices ? If we found a supplier would other people want a refurb kit ? Doubt it would be that cheap, though.
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Hi RedBaron and Monwa. Your two examples show how confusing this whole deal is. Monwa, even though you've taken a hit on miles per gallon, if you're still getting 40mpg(US) then that's about 45mpg(UK) which is better than any of us are getting over here. It still hasn't done many miles, although of course I don't know what maintenance has been like. RedBaron, if yours is still getting 47-8mpg(US) on back roads, thats about 55mpg(UK), and you've done 84,000 miles without replacing any carburettor parts, then it gives the lie to any suggestion that the carb parts wear quickly and waste fuel. Have you changed any carb parts, or is that with a worn carburettor ?
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Hmmmm I hope that's not really the case. I'm as sure as I can be about the mpg figures from before I put the sidecar on as I went out of my way to check it. I remember one exception when I went to North Wales on A-roads and might have got about 42mpg, but that was so eceptional I'd doubt that figure's reliability. When I first bought the bike I took it to a V-max specalist to put it on the rolling road 'just to see'. They said that it was running slightly rich and also that emulsion tubes were a common problem. I was sceptical because I felt that the mileage was so low for such a large bike and I'd never felt the need to replace these parts in twenty years of biking. Now I'm thinking about changing them, but if it won't make a difference it's a lot of money to throw at the problem. Squeeze seems to say it makes little difference - I just don't know. Tell me about it - so is economy improving when you do nothing. I can't figure out what's making a difference. Squeeze said: - but I'm not at all sure what you mean. When I checked the carb specs I didn't check if they used the same needles on other carbs. Do different models have different needles - how would we check which spec had best mileage ? I doubt most riders know their carb jet sizes. I wouldn't if I'd not been looking these things up. I have a nagging suspicion that if it were a stack of little things that were making a smal difference each, then with increasing miles I'd expect the consumption to steadily worsen with a wide range of figures reported. I still maintain that figures quoted largely put people into a high or low consumption bracket and that there might be something fairy specific - your 'cam hole' suggestion or something else. That or an awful lot of people enjoy 'fish stories'...
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We don't get that range - we can't get anywhere near 5l/100km (55mpg UK) no matter what we do. As I said above, there are two camps, and those who get good mpg refuse to believe that it's anything other than the right wrist that controls fuel consumption. - that's what I'm getting whatever speed I do at present. From Gearhead: Quote from Valhalla on www.yamahaventureclub.co.uk : Even when solo, cruising at about 50-55mph, I could not beat high 30s to the gallon. If one person gets appreciably better mpg cruising (ie no appreciable acceleration) at 80mph than another who is travelling at 55mph, then saying that it depends on your wrist doesn't really help much. Yes, it may be that my motorcycle is not perfectly tuned, but if that is the case so are a lot of other people's and presumably they would also benefit if we could find what it is that is critical and causes the difference in fuel economy.
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Judging by some of the responses, plenty of US riders get the same (low) figures. I don't think there's a major difference between the petrol in each country (apart maybe from some states using and ethanol additive ??), so there must be a difference in how some bikes are set up. The question is, what is the difference ? It might be because of pride in how our bikes run, because we want to save the Earth's resources, to travel further without looking for petrol or just to save money, but amongst that lot there must surely be enough reasons to find out what makes a difference. If I can get it right, it would certainly be nice to explain to all those new Gold Wing owners why my quarter century old machine is better, faster, cheaper to run and more comfortable. The odd thing is that posters seem to fall in two camps (for the most part). Some report good mileage and don't believe anyone gets poor mileage for any reason other than an active right wrist. The other camp just say it's a big heavy bike and there's no way that you should expect good mileage and they don't get it. Are there two types of Venture out there ? Can I buy one of the cheap to run bikes ? Failing that I'll keep trying to work out the conversion, but any pointers from someone else who has made the change would be gratefully accepted - except no-one else has admitted to achieving this. I don't understand
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Bleeding the brakes ....
greg_in_london replied to nowindinmyhair's topic in Venture and Venture Royale Tech Talk ('83 - '93)
I always felt that the brakes were appalling.I went through a number of steps to improve them, basically junking the Yamaha system as I went. I was particularly keen to improve the brakes as I have a sidecar, but there is no need for the restrictors in the system. First of all, get rid of the proportioning valve to the back. All it does is reduce the braking effect when you need to stop. Don't want to be mean, but if you are such a total learner that you cannot use a brake without locking the wheel, this might not be the right bike for you - not until you have had some basic training, at least. [Yamaha comment: 'The exclusive advantage to this brake system is that the brake operation requires no skill,' - you've discovered the disadvantage] Secondly, I bought a 9/16" master cylinder and connected it to both front brakes so I could use the level of braking force that was necessary. The linked system can be fine for generally slowing down, but when it is an emergency, there's no way you can maximise front wheel braking (ie without locking up) trying to guess the braking force between hand lever and foot pedal. I then made up a sidecar brake and connected it to the back brake master cylinder (which has plenty of capacity. I also only replace brake line with braded hose. Finally I left the old trailer tent in the in-laws' barn in Ireland after purchsing another with over-run brakes. I suspect that I also by-passed the metering valve before upgrading the front master cylinder, but I'm not 100% sure from memory. Obviously well bled brakes, good pads, unscored discs and clean/lubricated pistons are taken as a given.