Zelthian

I'll add my 2¢ (ok, maybe 3¢) here. I'd been considering my next bike purchase for a while. I had a 2011 Victory Cross Roads and wanted a bike with a fairing. I'm also a V-Twin fan for reasons that, admittedly, may not entirely be technical. For some time my top contenders were: - Victory Vision: Dropped off the list when Victory was shut down - Indian Roadmaster: Didn't like the fact that the fairing was fork-mounted, and the styling is a bit too traditional for me - Honda Goldwing: Not a V-Twin When the new Venture came out, I had to work hard to curb my excitement. I did eventually buy it, but it was almost a full year after the announcement. The V-Twin, for me, was a positive, and if some of the videos are to be believed, allowed for a larger gas tank as well. I am smitten by this bike, and I am now a happy member of the Yamaha family. That said, I haven't personally received any negative comments on my purchase here, regardless of intent, humorous or otherwise. Such comments (which I characterize as good natured ribbing) are a common occurrence in online forums, and motorcycle communities in particular (ask any Harley owner among jap bike communities, or vice-versa). I don't take such chatter seriously or personally, but unfortunately some people do. For those folks, I wish them well, but I fear they will be hard-pressed to find anywhere online where everyone agrees 100% with their opinions. Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

This is unfortunate. The iPhone is a great phone. I have an android phone, and the feature works fine. I hope there's a fix or work-around for the iPhone.

Might be a good use for the dedicated Star Venture/Eluder phone support number:

Wouldn't it be cool if all of the oil companies started a campaign where they adopted a policy of uniform labeling between Europe and USA? Kudos to Mobil1.

It wasn't a lawsuit; Mobil filed a complaint with the National Advertising Division of the Better Business Bureau. Splitting hairs, admittedly, and the result is the same. Where I think we get hung up is on the definition of the word "Synthetic". We tend to think of "Synthetic" as meaning something along the lines of, "Produced from base chemicals, not borne from natural oil from the ground". The way that the NAD decided, seeming, that it should be defined is along the lines of, "anything created (thus, synthesized) from naturally occurring products". Thus, by their definition, gasoline is a synthetic product since it doesn't exist in nature, but is created from (synthesized) from oil. In terms of oil, once you start separating components out and using the hydrogen injection method to re-string the hydrocarbons (one of the videos linked in this thread explains this, IIRC), then the oil is no longer in a state found in nature, and thus it has been synthesized and can be marketed as "Synthetic". Not saying I agree, mind. Marketing in the USA is full of this, "well, technically, if you look at it this way" crap; why should motor oil be any different? It just means we have to take any claim of "Synthetic" oil skeptically until it can be determined what exactly is in the oil. Most of the oil company websites offer an SDS for each of their oils. Some of these are very detailed, others are not. I like the ones from Redline, as they tend to use language in their component section that clearly spells out composition of the base oil (and, occasionally, some of the additives). In contrast, Amsoil's SDSs are less forthcoming, and Royal Purple's links on their SDS page simply end up back at their individual product pages. Kudos to Redline, but otherwise not a reliable way to figure this out, sadly. I guess you could call and ask. I may do that this week, starting with Royal Purple. I'm wouldn't be surprised if they weren't aware their SDS page was broken.

Thank you for coming out and saying this. Yes it has. I didn't mention the brand because I didn't want to come across sounding like a fanboy. Once you get labeled as a fanboy of a particular brand, folks tend to not take your opinion seriously in relation to other brands.

Yup. Personally I was surprised when the transmission whine went away at my last oil change. I figured it was something I was going to have to live with. It's got me very curious as to what the actual reason was that it went away.

There are a lot of assumptions and jumps to conclusions in the last post. Let me see if I can state, directly, my position so that folks know where I'm coming from. I don't use Amsoil oil. Yet. Amsoil is on my list of oils to try in my bike, but I have not yet used Amsoil oil. I have never said I don't like Redline oil. I have never used them and have not formed an opinion. But, like Amsoil, I do plan on using the oil in my bike. Given advertising and technical data, I will focus on the technical data, regardless of what form it's in. SDSs won't show the full composition of an oil. It is clear, however, that they can provide enough information to at least determine the type of base oil used, and the percentage of that base used in the oil. I can find no advertising that states or claims, unequivocally, that all Redline oils are Group V. This statement, so far as I can tell, comes from user American and by others making the claim in other online forums. Somebody please link to a Redline webpage, video, or technical document that directly states this. All the information above can be found by doing less that five minutes of searching on Google. And now some personal statements. I have no issue with anyone liking a particular brand of oil. I do take issue with broad statements that can't be backed up with technical documentation or statements directly from the source. I believe there is very little difference in the OBSERVABLE performance of the various different brands of synthetic oil, given the same viscosity and application. As of yet, I haven't seen a lab-based, repeatable long-term caparison between the brands. What would be the point? Who's going to put up the money for such a test? Once you get to the level of performance of the synthetic oils these brands offer, it would take an extraordinary effort (time, money) to show an observable difference, and any difference would be so small between them as to not warrant the effort. I believe this is why a true long-term comparison isn't done. As such, I really don't have the desire to try to prove one way or the other which oil is "best". The only difference I've observed is the absence of the transmission whine at my last oil change when I switched oils. My only goal is to see if the same is true when I use Redline/Amsoil/Brand xyz oil as well, or if the whine will come back. This was an observable change that I hope stays true as I try the other oils. I created this thread so that folks could argue over oil here instead of hijacking other posts to do so. I am making a list of oils to try. So far, this is my list: Redline 10W40 Motorcycle Oil Amsoil 10W40 Synthetic Metric Motorcycle Oil Royal Purple 10W40 MAX-CYCLE® – Synthetic Motorcycle Engine Oil Mobil 1 10W40 Mobil 1 Racing™ 4T Motorcycle Oil Castrol 10W40 POWER1 4T Engine Oil Valvoline™ 4-Stroke Full Synthetic Motorcycle Oil I think that's all the major brands. Did I miss any? There are so many other smaller brands... Bikemaster, Lucas, Motul, Rotella... are any of these worth trying?

As I said earlier in this thread, one company's info is another company's propaganda. Every company's advertising should be approached with a critical eye. PAOs HAVE a classification. They are Group IV. Redline motorcycle oil is 48-58% PAO, which means they are 48-58% Group IV. I might agree with you if it weren't for the fact that the Synthetic Lubricant Base Oil is CLEARLY called out in the automotive oil SDS, and is ABSENT from the 10w40 motorcycle oil SDS. If the Synthetic Lubricant Base Oil were in the 10w40 motorcycle oil, it WOULD be called out in the motorcycle oil SDS. This is also supported by the fact that the Redline 20w60 motorcycle oil IS Group V, and the SDS (https://w3apps.phillips66.com/NetMSDS/ViewPDF.aspx?fileName=830005&Language=EN&IssueDate=5%2f16%2f2018&SubFormat=USDS) indicates greater than 70% Synthetic Lubricant Base Oil without the esters indicated in the 10w40 motorcycle oil SDS. So: No Synthetic Lubricant Base Oil in the 10w40 motorcycle oil. "The use of ester base stocks" is not the same as, "This oil is primarly ester based / Group V". The only reason I harp on this is that the statements "All Redline oils are Group V based" is technically inaccurate. The 10w40 Motorcycle oil clearly isn't (though as I mentioned before, the Redline 20w60 is). Frustratingly, I can't get the 20w50 motorcycle oil SDS to load or download. Honestly I'm no trying to beat down Redline. Their video is good, they put their product info out there, and I don't see anything to suggest their products aren't great. The ONLY think I'm beating down is the statement that all Redline oils are Group V. There is clear evidence that the 10w40 motorcycle oil isn't. I'm not saying it's a bad oil, or that it wouldn't be fantastic in my motorcycle. In fact, I plan on giving it a try. It's just not primarily a Group V oil.

(emphasis mine) In regards to the motorcycle oil, this doesn't hold water. Given the SDS, the motorcycle oil is MINIMUM 48% PAO and MAXIMUM 2.8% ester. The motorcycle OIL is MOSTLY PAO, with SOME Ester, NOT the other way around. You can't call that an ester-based oil. It is not a Group V ester-based oil. Having a maximum 2.8% ester does not qualify as ester-based.

I've been doing some research, and I noticed something. First, there's this page for Redline's 10W40 Motorcycle oil: https://www.redlineoil.com/10w40-motorcycle-oil Key statement on the page: (emphasis mine) This would seem to suggest this oil (at least) isn't fully Group V, and is instead at least partially comprised of Group IV PAO base stock. Then there is the Safety Data Sheet (SDS), available here: https://w3apps.phillips66.com/NetMSDS/ViewPDF.aspx?fileName=830003&Language=EN&IssueDate=7%2f6%2f2016&SubFormat=USDS If you look at "SECTION 3: Composition/information on ingredients", the first line in the table shows 1-Dodecene, Homopolymer, Hydrogenated at 48-58% concentration by weight. Note the mention of Hydrogenated which, by other information we have in this thread, suggests that it is created by modifying an organic base, which suggests either a Group III or Group IV base stock. (Wikipedia page on Hydrogenation) This seems to be borne out by this Chevron/Philips article: http://www.cpchem.com/bl/nao/en-us/shglibrary/1-Decene%201-Dodecene%202013%20Final.pdf Key quote from page 2: The seems to confirm that 1-dodecene is a PAO, not an ester base stock. To be fair, the next two lines mention esters: Phosphorodithioic acid, O,O-di-C1-14-alkyl esters, zinc salts, and then butanedioic acid ((4,5-dihydro-5-thioxo-1,3,4-thiadiazol-2-yl) thio-bis(2-ethylhexyl) ester, but the concentration of these are 1.5-2.5% and 0.2-0.3% respectively. Even at a max total of 2.8%, this is far less than the minimum concentration of the Dodecene at 48%. For comparison, I looked at the automotive 5w30 oil that Redline offers, and its page is different: https://www.redlineoil.com/5w30-motor-oil This is supported by the SDS of this oil: https://w3apps.phillips66.com/NetMSDS/ViewPDF.aspx?fileName=828863&Language=EN&IssueDate=5%2f11%2f2018&SubFormat=USDS In section three, it lists Synthetic Lubricant Base Oil at greater than 90%. TL;DR: It would appear Redline automotive oils are Group V synthetic (ester) base oils, but Redline motorcycle oils are Group IV (PAO) base oils with added ester.

Check the beginning of this thread: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/950368/1 There is also an article here: http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/Press%20Releases/Lubes_N_Greases/motor%20oils%20day%20in%20court.pdf Point being, this wasn't done in the courts. Also, it may be that whether AMSOIL is Group III or Group IV depends on which version of the oil you're talking about. Check out this video from 2010: This may have changed, of course, but it's worth considering.

Some oil makers still say to use conventional oil during break-in. Here they say synthetic can be used, while others have a break-in specific synthetic. Seems to be a lack of consensus.

Fair enough. The video you posted is actually one I had seen before, but it didn't register in my mind as a Redline video. Good stuff. I'm going to add Redline to my rotation of oils to try in my bike. This reminds me very much of this video from Royal Purple: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UBof6Naj10 I am VERY skeptical of this video. I'd wager a few bucks the oil they used here may not be a QUALITY "full synthetic product from a major oil company", but that's just the cynic in me, I guess. Thanks for posting the links and the info! I'm diving in and learning stuff!

American, you posted a lot of things here. There's a lot to read, but let me ask/comment on a few things. One company's info is another company's propaganda. The blog post info I posted may be geared to be favorable to Amsoil, but at the least they put it out here for public scrutiny. I don't see other oil companies offering similar info on their websites. Mobile1 has some very basic stuff, but nothing to the level that the Amsoil blog provides. I would really like other sources posted here (links, give us links!), so folks, please provide them. Can you provide a link to the test Amsoil does (a video would be great), and a related critique? Can you share where you found this information? On this we can agree. Ok, American, we get it. You use Redline oil. Seriously, are you a Redline Employee/Salesman/Stockholder or something?

Fair enough.

I just had this conversation with my dealership service department yesterday. Their take: ALL TPM sensors are inaccurate. My service manager's comment was that they are there to warn you when the tires are starting to get low, NOT to give an accurate read on the pressure. I always makes sure my tires are at 41/41 F/R when I start a weekend ride, and once the TPMS shows a reading, their showing something like 38/39.

It'll be good to get all the info on this in one thread, methinks. I'll start with a few blog posts from Amsoil. Please feel free to add info (with links to references please) to add to the knowledge base. A Beginners Guide To Motor Oil How Much Synthetic Is In My Oil A good post on the definitions of Group I - Group V oils Are all Synthetic Oil Groups the Same? Group III vs IV vs V A great post on what make a good oil from a generic perspective. Some interesting quotes: "Generally speaking, Group IV base oils offer the best performance, Group III second best, and so on in reverse order. But be forewarned – there are exceptions. And, you can’t judge motor oil performance solely on base oil type. You must take into account its entire formulation, including the additives." "Some motor oils made from Group III oils can outperform some Group IV motor oils. That’s because the final formulation is a function of the base oils and additives working in tandem." "In fact, some Group V oils are completely unsuitable for automotive use." "Try not to get caught up in the “my-base-oil-versus-your-base-oil” cage match. The base oils that go into the oil aren’t as important to your engine as the performance that comes out of the oil. Look for motor oils that offer performance claims backed by industry-standard testing or real-world results. That’s what’s really important." Should I Warm Up My Motorcycle Before Riding? "About one minute is plenty of time to allow the piston and other parts to gradually expand and ensure good oil circulation to the upper end. Most riders start the engine and spend a minute or two putting on their helmet and preparing to ride. Once they’re ready, so is the bike." What Happens if I Use the Wrong Weight (Viscosity) of Oil? A good breakdown of this question.

I'm sorry, I disagree. Go back and read what you posted. It is a personal advertisement for Redline oil. This thread was meant to review the bike. It wasn't meant as an opportunity for everyone to come in and proclaim their favorite oil brand. There are plenty of other threads out there to do this. This is why I didn't mention the brand I used. The point of my addition was: - I didn't use Yamalube - I used another synthetic - I used 10w-40 instead of 15w-50 - The transmission whine went away. I am NOT trying to assert that the brand I used got rid of the whine. That judgement will wait until after the next oil change when I swap oils again. My theory is that using a non-Yamaha 10w-40 synthetic got rid of the whine. The ONLY thing I know from what the parts guys at the dealership said that MIGHT have something to do with it is that the Yamalube 15w-50 has a lot of esters in it. I have no idea about the ester content of the oil I chose, so I don't know if this had anything to do with it. Too many unknowns here, so I focused on what I know would matter: synthetic, 10w-40, non-Yamalube. To address another point from your post, the 10w-40 I used is not marketed for V-Twins. There are some on the market that are, but tend to be 20w-50. Given the temperature scale of that viscosity, I wanted something that was rated for lower temps, and I wanted to be sure the viscosity was noted for others. Point being: this bike does not require oil targeted at V-Twins. Indeed, if you read the material around these oils, they seem to be targeted at HD V-Twins. Once I get to 8000 miles and try the other brand oil, and if the transmission whine comes back, I'll consider naming the oils I used. Until then, 10w-40 synthetic, non-Yamalube name-brand oil seems to do the trick just fine.

And here I was trying to keep this from turning into a commercial for oil. *sigh*

Another update: I just had the 4000 mile service done today. After the break-in service, I had them put in the Yamalube synthetic, which is a 15w-50. The transmission whine I observed persisted through to the 4000 mile service I had done today. This time I provided my own purchased 10w-40 full synthetic motorcycle oil (name-brand), and on the ride home I observed no transmission whine. I can actually hear the tire sound on certain pavements now.

You must have missed this thread... http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?136112-2018-SV-Infotainment-System-Firmware-Version-12-06-Released!

I decided to call the dedicated customer service line to ask about the 12.0.6 update. Here is what I was told: The 12.0.6 update was pulled due to the fact that customers and dealers ran into issues getting it installed. It turned out that these customers were using USB drives with features like encryption and access passwords that were causing issues with the infotainment system software when it tried to access the files on them. They didn't know what was causing the problem and pulled the update out of an abundance of caution in case it was actually the update that was causing the issue. Once they traced the issue to certain USB drives and not the update itself, they re-released the update. The guy also confirmed there are no release notes for the updates beyond what you see on the website currently, which means the comment that is there ("Includes bug fixes related with iOS compatibility") is very likely just what's changed from 12.0.5 to 12.0.6. I gave them the feedback that the community would very much like to have a historic list of fixes for each of the released updates, and he took that feedback and attached it to my vin to hand back to Yamaha.

I installed it. Seems to be working fine for me. Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Ooo, where did you see this video?