CaseyJ955

Sorry, it was hard to quote this but i'll address each one. Yes I'm a minority in many things vehicle related. I know that some of these bikes will surpass 200k without much trouble, I'm not actually on the market for one and would likely look for something under 100k. I bought my 1st gen with 70k on the clock and I'm not even a touch worried. Apples and Oranges, yup, thats true, but thats what we're doing here in comparing air and liquid cooling and known stout Euro bikes to air cooled twins. I will certainly agree it's apples and oranges, this would be more the point than a counter point. I'll keep my liquid cooled apples for sure. Buying a modern bike with air cooling would be a big step backwards, like buying a new Lexus with incandescent headlights and a points type distributor. Longevity and Performance to me: Longevity to me means a bike that will not need rebuilding in 100k miles. It is a subjective term but I'm pretty sure anyone we ask would indicate that a bike with 175k on the clock has some longevity and a bike with blow by at 56k does not enjoy longevity. Performance is also subjective, to me it means that I can pass a row of RVs with my wife on the back and a load of our stuff in the trunk, in 105 degree weather and at 95 mph. Not sure about you but I dont spend one more moment beside a tractor/trailer than I have too. I'll spare you the description of how well my Softy (air cooled twin) went up the pass 2-up, but I can use words like "frustrating, slow, very hot, dramatic". In short Performance to me means it puts a smile on my face when I crack the throttle and will accelerate with authority fully loaded in any reasonable situation, without fuss or drama. Will maintain triple digit speeds easily. Will effortlessly blast away from tailgaters at highway speeds, 2-up and with authority. I'm not saying I would do these things but I might, and the bike needs to be up to the task if I choose to. Some bikes make me grin so hard my face hurts and others just leave me underwhelmed. Performance also means easy starts, good ridability at all RPMs and it should never feel like a sports car in Valet Mode. My experience with this has been extensive exposure to air cooled narrow angle twins, mostly HD but some others. Of course experiences of those close to me as well. I have not ridden the new Yamaha so granted it could be a better design than HD, in fact I would bet on it, but it's still a very large engine with air cooling and just as water gets you wet, large air cooled twins emit copious amount of heat, especially when asked to push the weight of the Venture. It may not cook you 3 blocks from your house in the crisp morning air but your definitely going to feel it after you come off the highway fully loaded and have to sit at the offramp red light for 5 minutes in the summer heat "Truth is, there are many air cooled V-twins running over 200k..." I'm sure there are a few, given ultimate conditions and very gentle riding style but this is absolutely not the norm. They are usually pretty clapped out at 100k if they even last that long. It's just as odd for an air cooled twin to give up 100k truoble free miles as it is for a V4 to not give you 100k trouble free miles. I will say that to those that want the air cooled twin, more power (or not haha) to ya, enjoy! Life is full of options. I still know a few with the old twins. Its okay to ride whatever we want and also okay to debate pros and cons of engine design. I didn't mean to imply that the air cooled twin is a poor inferior design, not by any means. I really meant to just come right out and say it. Lots of folks like these antiquated twins and I'll never know why still today but I think Yamaha is meeting market demand and a business should do that. I would be lying if I said that I didnt loose a ton of respect for Yamaha for using this obsolete tech in a new bike. I have been riding for 35 years and seen lots change in bike technology and it's been exciting. I know many of you have more than my 35 years and like different bikes for different reasons and it's all good, but the debate is nothing more than comparing notes, opinions and experiences of other folks passionate about motorcycles. Please understand that this is not a personal attack and this response is with all due respect. We obviously dont agree on engine configurations but I think we can find common ground in the fact (not opinion) that motorcycling is an awesome state of mind and way of life.

A good question deserves an honest answer. Show me a boxer with a service history, price it right for a bike with 200k and I'll absolutely ride off into the sunset on it. Triumph Triple, same again. My Triple still had all the crosshatch on each cylinder at 80k, it looked like a pretty new engine inside. Some engines are well crafted and made to last. Other engines have different priorities and purposes. An air cooled twin is not designed with longevity or performance in mind, it's just not. I really dont see how it will be much different than many other air cooled twins on the market aside from 8 valves. It wont be terribly exciting, it wont pile on lots of miles and at a long stop light in August you will still fry. Love it or hate it, it is what it is.

I go to WY for no reason, at least a couple times a year. It's great. Headed south from Newcastle to Lusk just last month, it's simply amazing. There is not a lot of ghetto action in WY that I have seen. There are less ppl/sq mile in WY than any of the other lower 48 states. There are less people to fleece with absurd stupid laws, like requiring a paid permit to invoke a constitutionally guaranteed right. We've gone well past crafting laws in the interest of public safety and gone off the deep end of power grabs/money grabs. A state with minimal gov intrusion into the lives of it's citizens, I LOVE that! So while I absolutely hate to hear about a gun being used as a weapon against anyone, I was a touch less upset about this shooting than the ones involving grade schools and workplaces filled with innocent folks.

I could not agree more with this. It's a good thing nobody that was ever POTUS did any grand apology tour or anything like that might make us all look like a bunch of PC sissies. Our constitution is one of our only saving graces right now. I carry concealed pistol and occasionally I enjoy my right to open carry. Like you, I have no plans on becoming a victim. I'm responsible for the protection of myself and my family. Oh yea, and I just like guns, they are cool. When we think of how easy it is for an unstable individual to hit the street and get a gun its scary. Throwdown guns are like drugs, you can really buy anywhere at any time, legal or not. Illegal only means that no regulation is applied, nor taxes collected on any product or service not allowed by law. That is just the reality of our society. Gun control has failed, and will continue to fail as it should but idiot control is something we probably need to take a closer look at. It's hard to counter this trend of almost daily shootings in our country without looking at the people doing it instead of the tools employed in the act.

Not to one-up, but my watercooled Venture can rev to around 23,000, so yea... there ya go I love the early small cal Hondas that can rev like Formula 1 cars, I saw one on a race circuit once. It's beyond *****en' Valve spring strength makes sense and probably port design being narrow enough to keep charge velocity high as it enters the chamber. I think this threw me, it's the first time I saw more than 2 valves/cyl on a vehicle with such a lethargic red line. I remember Yamaha Genesis 5 valve design, pretty cool and as I recall very effective. So now that we know what the engine is do we really know why it's so limited in the revs? Maybe head design to get the torque, maybe it would be to many powerstrokes for the air cooling to be adequate. I am fascinated to say the least.

I had a 70 GT, the 70-71 were my favorite years. Now that you mention it I see it too. I saw the brow that was reminiscent of BMW cars. I've made peace with the appearance of the gen3 but the spec sheet is going to be a deal breaker for me. At that weight Ill bet it rides nice. Here is a design question I would like to ask. Why put 16 valves in an engine with a sub-5k red line? They must be fairly small valves. I understand that one of the main perks to a 16v vs 8v is it breathes freer up high and 8v was a little easier to get low end grunt with. I assume that the extra two valves improve charge or somehow work to change how the charge enters the combustion chamber. Maybe they are angled to give the charge a twist or something? I do see less and less 8v mills out there, especially on bikes.

Theres a first gen goldie about 40 miles away, an 84 Royale with a 1300 in it for $500 firm. If Keystone werent so full of tourists right now I might have already gotten it. It's on CL if anyone else here wants to have a throw at it.

When I was in my 30s I would have laughed at myself for buying something like a Venture with all the nonsense and dead weight. Now I rather love the bike for the comfort and ability.

That has to be it. I'm shocked by how well this old bulky obese turd handles. It's very easy to get carried away in the twisty roads, it accelerates pretty damn well too. I have yet to ride a 2nd gen but they sure got the 1st gen right on! I cant take a lot of the corners in the BH at 10-20 over the speed limit without feeling like I'm pushing the envelope at all. Very poised and composed, especially for being as old and big as it is.

Yes, correct. 1st gen bikes took on some changes starting in 86, like bigger luggage, bigger forks, 1300cc and some other misc stuff. So 1st gen is cut into MKI and MKII, 86 being the first year of MKII and said changes. So for example, a blue one 86 or newer is in fact the ultimate Venture!

410 is just too damn hot. I'm a lifelong air cooled VW fan so I've seen lofty oil and head temps. If I stumbled onto a Karmann Ghia today I would snap it up so I guess I see why someone would go air cooled on nostalgia. Its more of a stretch to see manufacturers still using building vehicles using it. Heat management becomes a real issue, especially if you start trying to add displacement and performance. It's just a limiting factor no matter how you slice it. Liquid cooling just doesnt add enough wt or complexity to not use it. It's not like it can really be seen, look how well Triumph hid it on the open engine Bonnie variants. One thing about the old BMWs and Urals is the placed the cylinders where they get the best possible cooling, and equal cooling between the cylinders. I find it genius. One huge difference is the newer air cooled boxers are posting decent performance numbers and they do last quite a long time, they have gone to liquid cooling on some of the boxers which are awesome for a twin cyl. I didnt mean to hijack but it's fun to explore the different ways manufacturers deal with cooling, displacement and performance. http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2015/october/the-air-cooled-boxer-is-here-to-stay/

That is nice!! That Rocket III is a significant machine. I bought new in 00 a Sprint ST with the 955 Triple. Maybe the best bike I have ever owned. Put 80k trouble free miles on her, she didnt care if I treated her like a Goldwing or a Gixxer, those triples have awesome torque from the basement on up. I toured this bike everywhere. Having owned it my view on Triumph bikes has increased dramatically and I liked them before. It toured well, I got it with the detachable factory hard bags which were handy for those two week tours around the middle states. Truly loved this machine and would buy another Triumph without hesitation, X2 if it's a triple. I always accepted Hinkley era Triumphs as an apology for MG, Alpha, Jaguar and Triumph cars.

Glad you made it safely, there is a little tour of the Bullock basement and it's pretty cool. Probably the best food right there is above the Old #10 . Give me a call and let me know what your scheduling looks like. I'm pretty open for the next few days.

They did go out of their way to create the retro appearance. They did a pretty fine job of it. I have yet to ride a newer Bonnie or 120 to compare it to my former 69 but the resemblance is striking. I'm not sure how much it effects performance but back when I was in RAT (Riders assc of Triumph) and did some group rides the Bonnie guys had no trouble keeping up and they seemed quite well received. For those that like absurd torque there is always the Rocket III. 147tq@2500rpm, 140hp@5750rpm it's sweet. I think the RocketIII Touring is a full $10,000 cheaper than a Venture but lacks the techy options. Not created for the same buyers no doubt but if someone is in it for tq and performance it would sure be a fun demo ride.

As much as I dont believe air cooled engines have any place in modern motorcycling any more than carbs and points, I do like the diversity of those that do. It would seem that if someone wants a bike that looks like a Venture with an air cooled twin they have almost limitless choices. I guess I'll have to ride a 1900 and see what the love affair is all about, with all that torque it might be sweet in a bobbed bike. It just seems like we're asking a lot of it to move a half ton criuser down the highway 2up. Heres one just for fun. 8 valve, twin cyl cruiser, liquid cooled, 747lb wet weight, 56mpg US, only 1699cc, 98hp@5200rmp and 115.4tq@2950rpm bone stock? Sounds like a fun engine? it's a Triumph Thunderbird Storm and has a parallel twin rather than a V. Pretty decent HP and still respectable tq for a smaller twin. We've been batting around Vtwin vs V4, liquid vs air. I figured it deserves honorable mention given it's smaller size and formidable performance. Besides whats more retro than a parallel twin?

Just like that, usually timing belts of today are recommended replacement intervals of ~90k give or take. On your old Mustang, probably a 2.3L. one of the easiest timing belts to replace and if it breaks there is no damage. Not like anymore, timing belt breaks, valves hit pistons and you can play with the hot oily peices. So stretching that 90k replacement interval is really a very bad idea for timing belts, just as with drive belts.

What he said. It bears a resemblance to a timing belt and cam pulley. Here, this is a fair explanation and although it's a drawing it does articulate the idea. Pretty cool really. http://www.howmotorcycleswork.com/articles/article024.htm

Now theres a guy that can flick a massive touring machine around like a YZ250. That is something to see!

That is sleek and smooth! Excellent acquisition! Dont worry about Mother Yamaha, she didnt worry about us . Luckily Mother Yamaha is free to produce air cooled narrow angle twins and put them in bikes that weight more than the effen sun! Luckily We are free to purchase performance touring bikes from manufacturers that still make them with a focus on a gem of an engine. I think your really going to like that K1200. Pretty silky smooth liquid cooled inline 4, DOHC, 4 valves/cyl, EFI and other. I got to ride one a short ways and it was impressive, the torque and silky smoothness. I most recall how relaxed and stable it was at very illegal speeds. It was the first big bike I rode and by the time my feet were up it felt like a much lighter machine. One thing I respect about the Germans is they prioritize Function before Form, then go back and perfect the form. Many of the tourers for the American market are Form before Function, which might become obvious if you go in with high expectations and push them to hard. I suspect you and I are on the same page about what a touring bike should be, or you would not have bought that thing! Telelever is sweet but might take some getting used to, it feels different. Google final drive issues, a few had them. They can be finicky so maintenance is critical on that actual authentic Performance Touring Bike! I suspect you may be spending a few bucks to get her back on the road. Dont forget to check tire date codes since it's been parked a while. You can "chip" that bike for a boost in performance and get some neat exhaust systems if that is necessary. Please keep us posted on how this comes along, I'm really interested in this. Had I found that bike instead of you it would be in my workshop. See, I'm excited for you, on your behalf!

32.8 seems thirsty for not flying along at 90. Mine was almost that good and nothing I did helped until I added the needle drop shims, now I'm around 40mpg. The fact that this worked makes me think that the emulsion tubes might be worn (known issue) plenty of these bikes are getting around 40mpg without shims. I set the floats at 1.125", installed new diaphragms and made sure the block plugs were snug and that got me from ~24 to ~ 29. Adjusting float levels made quite a difference on my VMX12 The worst part about getting poor mpg is where your fuel gauge is after only 100 miles. Now when I hit 100 mi I still have half a tank left, or very close to it. Are the diaphragms all good, all synched up and AF screws set? I use the backyard "by ear" method and I'm not quite 2 turns out on all. On float levels, I did both my Venture and Vmax and found the factory settings to be too high. These CV carbs really react to small changes in float levels.

What kills a belt in a hurry is getting a rock or something stuck between the belt and pulley. They work if they are guarded against this. They are light, quiet and long lasting. I think replacement intervals is 100k mi (?) Which is further than many of the air cooled bikes that use them will go without major work, or at all. I think a broken belt in a properly maintained bike would be less common than a flat or dead battery. IMHO the belt was the right choice for this bike. This thing with the Venture is going to blow over eventually. I think calling it a Venture was a serious misstep by Yamaha but other than that it sounds like they made a bike a lot of non-venturers cant wait to get their hands on.

I too am very sorry to see someone want to leave over the controversy. Some of us are quite disappointed and baffled by the new thing, and just letting off some steam. I have glossed over threads that weren't my thing and it's no big deal. None of it is required reading and it is fairly well isolated in threads titled accordingly. I hope the folks that were frustrated over this will stick around and just ignore the objectionable material. Again, hate so see any of these good people head for the exit over it. Sleep on it and come back, this really will blow over pretty soon and normal programming will resume. Really hope to those of you taking a break come back.

Wow, I like the look of those Day Longs. Like Cimmer I have a narrow backside, so hard seats like Corbins are out of the question. Oddly enough seats that are too soft are not much better. I dont think I could comfortably do 1000 mi on the stocker but I did over 1000 in two days in the first real ride of the year with not to much difficulty. In my experience thats pretty damn good for a stock saddle. I figured Buttlers mod would get me where I need to be but I'll have to investigate the Day Long. I think bang for the buck it would be virtually impossible to beat Buttlers mod.... Ok, just got off the phone with Russels. It rang 3 times and a guy answered the phone (not an automated system) and had all the answers, was patient while I formulated questions on the fly, never felt like he had something better to do than talk to customers. In my experience outstanding customer service like that is strongly indicative of a quality product/service. After a conversation with this highly peasant, knowledgeable person I found out that to have my driver seat redone and the full saddle with both backrests recovered in Brown/Tan leather I would be out about $1000. It's a decent amount of scratch, especially for an old bike but I have had a couple custom saddles made before and this is not the place to be cheap. I will spend the money but my production date would be Aug, so I'm just going to do it over the winter when I have the bike apart to install the Vmax heads/cams. As long as I dont buy one of the BMWs I'm test riding this week I'm going to get a winter production date from him and go forward. It looks like just a basic solo seat redo is a lick over $500 for the Venture so thats quite reasonable. I'm going to do the full monty to get rid of the black vinyl.

I carry plug kits and sticky rope in all my vehicles. One of my Samurai tires must have 6 plugs in it. To replace those tires (35x12.5) cost almost what I paid for my Venture, so I'll plug the hell out of those and replace them only when there is no tread left. For a bike, I'll plug it and inflate it to get going again, I may even ride into town gently but it's getting replaced fairly soon. I often end up ripping up twisty roads and sometimes find myself doing 100+ on the long stretches without meaning too. The price for failure of a bike tire can be immeasurably high under the wrong circumstances. I vote to replace it when you can even though a plug in the medial part of the tread will likely hold just fine. It would always be in my head as I'm sailing down the superslab or carving up Custer State Park.

Puck! Glad your back man, sounds like you had a great time and lots of adventure! You got up close and personal to this new thing that has everyone excited one way or the other and got us a pic. Must have been a rush. No ride is complete without some adverse weather and a good soaking. Glad you got some scenery and had some fun. Thanks for reporting back and have a great weekend!