Patch

When you measure voltage for a circuit it is best know the voltage before, during and after test's, that is voltage in voltage through and out to ground. I would clean the contacts with "contact cleaner" and use a fine emery cloth between the contacts, You don't want to remove good material, you want to remove the carbon causing the resistance/V loss, which is likely why the you are measuring 10 volts. You will likely see some improvement right away, providing the relay coils are OK? But I would either replace or service the pump, at the very least an inspection of the working parts. Patch

That's up to you, they really aren't viable outside of the caps. Fanning is correct, labeling is better;)

If you follow the link on page 3 paragraph 1, there are 3 main ingredients, water, water base chem, and heat. For us in our little shop, we have a parts bath that runs around 15 gal I use the above, the concentrate however may change depending on what we are working on. We usually keep the bath for a year or so, adding only to replace, filtering or evap. When I started everything was, fast working, explosive, and highly hazardous! http://www.doi.gov/greening/links/upload/Switching-to-Water-based-Cleaners-in-Repair-and-Maintenance-Parts-Cleaning.pdf Now I can't soak my hands in my parts bath, even though it is a safer product to use, I don't have the same disposal problems, that might mean it's biodegradable, however it doesn't mean after use it meets any of the OK to dump so, I bring to the waste station. Now it works well and fast when heated, seems useless to me cold! That is why I mentioned if you want to use S/G heat the container being used! Soaking times for any metal should be kept or limited to achieving the objective, heating gets you there quicker. How you heat depends on the chem and what's safe and practicable! We also keep a 5 gal of mixed muriatic acid for steel parts, also way to slow cold, but heating it is dangerous as the fumes can/likely become explosive. But its a hard product to beat, mixing it or knowing if you have the right ratio takes practice. I mentioned my old benze, 2 part would have been the right primer/sealer, but because I didn't do this in my shop, and the garage was attached, I chose other products that are more time consuming, and certainly less effective. Lifting lids and taking a sniff, we've all done it, but we all need to teach the newbies that hang around us, that, that is a bad idea. Have you ever seen ammonia in a jug, looks like water, lifting that lid two feet below your nose is like a freight train under full power, in a loop, through your head, you are completely helpless to control what ever happens next, again first hand experience! That's it I'm moving on Patch

Well that is true Kevin, some years back OK many years back I sold a different product to the aircraft industry for use on problematic helicopters, we also recommended certain acids one wouldn't think used for delicate stuff. Simple Green seems to be more than well documented, one could ask why and or by whom or who paid the bills. It is a hard product to pick on as it seems to work well for so many things. Now I have used it for carbs and also on magnesium mixed metals, I've always been satisfied with the results. One thing I can assure you all of is that it is an easy rinse, and after rinsing Simple green is gone, period. Like many acids, cleaners off a shelf work better at temperature, for example a gold ring with a setting, placed in a small soup pot, with 1 cup of water and 1 TBS of MR. Kleen bring to a simmer place the ring inside cover with the lid lets say for 10 minutes, remove the ring, do not poor out the pot yet, quick rinse with fresh water, make sure all the stone are still there, now you can still feel the soap film on the gold, if the stones are all there dump the pot, try it again with Simple Green, is there a clear winner, I believe so and that is first hand knowledge. Acid is a common cleaner, rinsing it is of the utmost importance, because it remains active, and with each part and each rinse it requires more rinsing baths ! TSP another common cleaner, major draw back, very hard to rinse. Now here's a fellow blaming Simple Green for his mistake in not following the instructions, at all. http://forum.miata.net/vb/archive/index.php/t-69480.html Here is more stuff about their line: http://industrial.simplegreen.com/ind_solutions_faqs.php?search_query=aluminum&search=Search Patch

U a Funny Guy! Simple Green for the castings, "Gary's trip" for the guts. Regarding prep, I was suspicious too, but I tried it and it work better than good. Plastics, the old ones, are a challenge to custom paint because the heat deforms them, so we need to handle them way to much keeping them wet while you eye scan them for shape or true-ness, simple green breaks the surface tension allowing to to keep it wet/even flood, this way you pickup all the defects! The water will literally sheet off. From there tack-rag and straight to HK sealer/primer, once there you're on the clock! This winter during a convalescence after falling off a bluff and going crazy from doin nothing, I strip down my old benz, and repainted it, (very good therapy;) ) outside of the base coat it was all chem prep and clear, would not be practicable to use simple green. There are painters that do use it for metal gas tank custom work. Patch

Did that also cleaned and greased my rear brake peddle bushing, as well as the linkage, on mine there is wear in the knuckle, going to insert a bushing this winter! Patch

Something you should consider when you clean the carbs is the caked on dirt, these have on the housing. You don't want that flowing through, we plugged our nipples and let them soak overnight, brushing them off while standing the carbs tall in the 1.5 gal of Gunk. Notice I said 1.5 gal, I could of dropped them in a 5 gal pale or our large bath we use for heads; but because its a chem and we want to reuse it, we need to filter it in order to reuse it! You don't want that stuff in or running through the jets or porting! Its not grease or oil that will dissolve for the most part its grit and that will float into linkage and all the other places we try to protect with filters during regular operation! If you are the kind of fellow that wants a bright clean housing, you can achieve this simply by using an old rousting pot, a camping stove, 1.5 gal of water, 1/4 cup of Simple Green, the nice thing about it is, very friendly stuff, you just maintain a heat around 180 F, but I would still remove the crusty stuff 1st then Simple Green leave the surface with an easy fresh water rinse leaving no residue. I don't know how many of you do you own paint work, but I started using this on plastics in 08 as prep, with no regrets.

I like to stick to what I know, however I am pleased to have played with the Deep Creep (been years now), it carries it weight in our little shop!

Thanks for pointing those out, the main truthfully would have caused me to flip if I'ed blown that on a trip! I used a Suzi main. The other is an inline ATM blade, which I'm out of 20s. 20A seems high for the wiring I thought while looking at it? I'll have to get to the starter relay next time! Patch

Also and I forgot to include this; the backfiring you described can, leave deposits on the valve guides, and lift the stems seals, trust me on that one

Good questions: so for the intake seats, when the carbs are removed you fill through the intake, valves closed, yes it take a couple of timed rotations! As for worn valves, could be, all soaking can do is expose the mating surfaces cleaning contact points, The problem with contaminated seats again is a hard material slapping with pressure a softer material, that being the seat! Seat material can displace changing or adapting to the valve, mainly why we cut the seat only to 1mm. Why not the exhaust: if your pipes were off I would recommend you fill the ex port as well, none the less it will creep over and soften the build up as it also will soften any carbon or rust, via creep along the combustion chamber. Now the ex valve sees more pressure when cracking open then the intake, also we find that the carbon tends to build and level pitting, strangely enough. This by no means, means that exhaust valves are self mending, they operate under differant conditions and at higher heat range, they too are a different material! Some times the results achieved are not what we hope for, for example we had one recently where we started at 180 on all 4 ending up with 150 on all 4; a double edged sword! In that case we easily know the problem as carbon buildup, should we have left it? No, removing it was a better choice! I have on the bench a rare V4, I mentioned to AJ we should take pics to show the tolerances and what happens in a V config to an engine that hasn't run for many years and why the carbon can have such a negative effect! Moving past that, why I think a long soak is preferred: often we over look the fact that rings need to rotate, as do valves! Think it through and it'll click as to why. How the rings rotate is through a spec in honing, so it's a passive friction effective method, clutching through contaminates reduces this, I think you see the picture now, this means scoring and premature wear, a clean set is a good set; not a perfect set! Did you know the rings handle more than 45% of combustion heat transfer? In the end we each are the stewards of our bikes, the decisions we make are based on many factors. Forums are where we share experience, by no means is it the only or best way, only the fellow stuck knows what works for him. Hope that stuff helps, at least in general Patch

A common overlooked problem is the seats. Picture the complete displacement chamber closed off to circulation, add condensation, add the years. The thing is the seats are a special spec material, not only do they seal but the cushion as well, try cutting a valve by hand, now try the seat, know what I mean? If you have a rust line on the valve and you operate the engine you are changing the seat geometry, the more this happens the more likely you will be finding out what cutting a seat requires! Yes operating it is fine--------But after you have dissolved the contaminates! Same for the rings! Just exercise patience, and the inexpensive solvents I described, that has worked for me many, many times! http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?102387-Venture-Royal-refurbishing-back-to-touring-condition PS: don't put expensive engine oil in the engine till you have completely finished the soaking, its just wasted, after I use synthetic, depending on mileage and driving temps, will tell me which to use, 40 or 50, the lower the compression the higher the #, or noise might also play a role in my choice. Patch

I understand what you are saying; but no, is the short answer. It's more about combustion heat, mixing- and the percussion of the exhaust valve,, slamming shut. Patch

So carbs a side as we know they have to come off and gone through. Get a can of Deep Creep and spary some around the carb/intake mating area, wait an hour, remove the small plate on top of the carbs left side, you can now see the linkage and cables, remove the black tube completely between the carbs, running from the PCV ( mine was too stiff to bend and move, presto! What you describe is valve seats! The intake seats are leaking, the valves rusted, like the rings did, and it is wrong to force rings to free them, they should soak free, forcing them is like picking at a scab! The seats are not sealing pressure on the intake side, so -as the pressure builds during combustion it is slipping past and up through the carbs. 2 choices soak them as I mentioned in my post or remove the heads! You could also prove me wrong and do a, compression test, but and also, a leak down test would be the correct test for this! I seem to never have the right English to explain the air box, so I try to explain it this way: It serves as an air spring, it balances the air velocity and stream, it falls under tuning. Although different the exhaust system has a similar feature -we usually don't fallow or see it in the same light though, and that being back pressure! When I tune, with each step I add to the intake side of the carb, I look for a note that shows positive change, for example, extensions leading to the air box, the air box, the filter, the lid so on. It is harder to understand this then having a part number for a re jet, likely because it is not visible to us, so we don't see the importance of it. If I have popping on a warm engine, I missed somethin! Patch

Personally I would not ride the bike with a leak like you describe! If I don't have my bikes mixed up, I believe there are O-rings behind the unit? I would say if you are planning to change the springs, now is likely a good time. Patch

Hi Droneh Got to thinking about your up coming trip and thought I'd offer you a quick patch for the leak. This doesn't replace the Bar's, it is temporary but effective, 1 level TBS of pepper through the rad cap, if you have any concerns about leakage on your trip. Like I said it's temporary and can be filtered out through a strainer, not unlike a windshield washer strainer you find on most car reservoirs. I'm not making this up' it's been around for ever, it's harmless.. Patch

I'm going to have to check the relay, I didn't know it had been tampered with? I left the class fuse original, I did open and inspect it, looks like I was the first in there. I only did a visual on the main, it's not what I am use to but now that you mention it I will open it and follow through. I combined both boxes but kept the split- as though they are still two units! It makes for a bit more wiring but after going through the schematics you forwarded , seeing how the ing system supports amps by combining circuits..... I thought I wouldn't attempt to rethink it! Why I changed it was because I noticed poor conduction at the fuse cradles and the old Boss fuses are hard to find on the road, when you need them most. I trust in your experience with these bikes so I will fallow through with the recommendations. I know the PO outside of oil had all the work done at the dealer, including the rear lighting. The bike is in very good condition for her age and has just 72,000 klm or 44,738 miles and with not much city driving. Thanks for the support and sorry I missed some of your post!

Keven not sure how I missed those pics of the board with jumpers? Thanks for posting them, knowing the problem saved me considerable time! Here are the pics of the fuse box, unfortunately the one that shows the view of a blow circuit lit up is 2.13 MB so it wont upload but you get the idea. I wired the harness extensions as it was originally and kept the fuses separate as though there were two boxes. This way if I need to troubleshoot in the future should be easy.

Share some thoughts with you. I looked through the rebuild posts but didn't see anything that refers to machining, so my comments are based on minimum machining. If I look at the test scores I think you did ok, I also think small budget. My guess from over here is honing? Also there was some very good advice given in one of the post,by (Doug?) I think, regarded looking for fractures, but again that would be part of the machining. That aside, I can say with some certainty, providing the leakage is outside of the compression area, below the rings or beyond the head chamber, the Bars should work; providing the head mating falls within spec! Also keep an eye out for white smoke, you will kill it if you run with that! All in all looks like the engine is running well within spec. Enjoy the ride and the season Patch

Yes sir, Mr. GW, bottom feeders, for sure! I did slip in to the shop to hang my thoughts Sunday and yesterday night, the fuse box all wired in. I ended up putting it in the radio compartment, good fit! I tested each circuit for draw, I did find 2 different items. 1st Prairiehammer is correct (again) there is a gremlin in the box and it was confusing at first while checking with a test light. Here's what I found: ACC has power after switched off, but the complete picture is how much and whats the load? From On to off we have Bat. voltage, after 3 minutes we fade slowly down to 6ish, if we short it, switch off, power gone 0 voltage At switch on to off measuring load, 0 load at 12V and so on.. So I think it's a bleed in the ing switch, likely old lube slightly conductive, maybe contact dust partials??? It seems to be a harmless ghost for the moment at least. Because there's no load, there is no real worry in my case, I stopped chasing it. Next was to figure what/where the load or short was on the tail circuit that messed up the reed/sw, here's what I found: 6A sw/on, brake on 6.3A most of the marker lights inactive. Twisting the large white connector, load would drop to 3 or 2.6A? Separated the connector, load down to 2.3A , not obvious but there was some darkened pins, cleaned them move on to the next one beside it, found that one to be in poor condition, cleaned it, load steady a 5A. I then removed all the blue spice taps, discounting years of patches, cleaned the remaining plugs and wires, repaired all the broken insulation. Load down to 3.1 - 3.2 -not sure why but likely a ground path, when I light the brake it actually drops 0.1 A, "what ever" Monitor working well now at least during testing. Better yet, my air system has no more EEEEEEEEEs. But I do have a question on that, please, why while on the center stand, does the valve open releasing the front shocks air in ACC, yet not the rear shock??? If I go straight to on doesn't. Next up the throttle handle was knocked off the bike during the ..... I had the switch off for repair, anyhow the seat housing for the cables broke off, bummer. I'll post pics tonight Patch

Well outside of the choke I can't think of any other setting that should be set to a max? For general knowledge I'll mention this, before syncing carbs it's important to do basics, like a tune-up checking for heat on the pipes to make sure each cylinder is firing. If we use vacuum to sync not knowing if a cylinder is firing we end up with what you describe. I assume you turned the correct screw? What you described it pilot? If it were me I would do the following: check compression to to get it out of the way and off the check list: then I would pull the carbs and open #1 remove the jet body/housing, (do not force it, if it doesn't lift off spray some penetrating oil and let it soak) remember to remove the large brass slotted screw first: when looking in there with a light, there is one passage you need to confirm is open, holding it flat side down, the small passage on the right, move your light to the corner away from you and to the right, look through the passage you should see light, not a lot of it but a pin hole., If it's blocked there it will likely also be blocked in the barrel. Wash it out, a twist tie from a garbage bags will help,(remove the rapping to just have the wire for about 2") but only use it if you believe it is blocked. Wash the barrel as well, now spray carb clean into each ports where the jet body sits, you will need a fine air gun tube attached to the compressor 90ish lbs. Now carefully blow air though each passage and,,,, make sure it is traveling through not just blowing back at you! Do not blow air at a float. You have of course by this time checked the float valve seat; so reassemble but this time do a bench sink, before re installing them. The heating you speak of at #1 is thermal passage transfer not what we need, it needs to achieve 150- 160 within 3 or 4 minutes without choke. Patch

Was working last night hoping to get the fuse box finished, I worked till just after 10 completing the wiring, then I closed the lights and locked up. We have some guest spending time with us and one said, the shop window is open?????? It didn't look bad at first kind of thought we were lucky, all I saw missing was my shop laptop, there goes the manuals and notes and photos of the older projects, but as far as I could see no tools missing although every door and drawer had been left open? Funny cartoonish thing is, while taking the laptop he must of tripped in the dark and kicked over a lt of oil, from that we could see every where he went, over to each bike the Venture had quite a bit of tools/meters.... stuff, took nothing? Mind you he wouldn't be able to exit a door he had to use the small window. I figured he/they will be back? So went out and built some grills installed, then came our tool truck........... bummer guys they took anything that looked new and there was plenty to take, last year was a retooling year for our 2 crews! They left behind on one of the tool boxes in the van a flashlight with head band and an old slotted driver I found in front of the tire, like from the 50s hard clear yellow with a green top, anyways the crime tech that was sent over, dusted, took pics of the foot prints, and smiled when we pointed the flashlight out to him! Well I received good service from our police force, see what comes of it. Get this the bleeping bleeper walked and climber over my plastics for one of the old bikes, he used the 2 side trunks to climb out, that's House Of Color blue marble...... So I'm on hold for a bit, be safe, talk soon Patch

Wow good post! I'm a bit of an odd-ball with my bikes, for one I like to nap on them, don't know why, have even slept on them over night, this one really lends itself to that, and on the side stand as well. I have also seen the bike tip over with my GF still on, fortunately just the light skirt only, received damage. Now to add to my surprise, my GF picked it up before I reached her and it! Babe I said, if I ever misbehave -just remind me of this moment:) true story! Also this is the only big bike I've owned, I can use the center stand on, providing I air up. If I'm leaving the bike on the street I pull the right bar down, making it to uncomfortable for kids to sit on her. Eventually we are all going to weep the air in the forks, so the answer must be the springs.

I know it is often on my mind, as to how short stops would be effected? Would you say front end dive changed for you- with regards to city driving? Thanks

Newbei question, from 86 up is there advantage to decoupling?