Patch

Wow all on the same page;) Absolutely correct flynnfool there could be a problem or more specifically a corroded wire/connection after the kill to the coils! Likely why bongo is having him test that lead to the coils, if I understood right. We assume there is voltage because the starter circuit is triggering the fuel pump. However I assumed the solenoid was tested so a fail is a fail. Baylensman makes a valid point as well. Not sure I would allow the engine light to distract me from simply ruling in or out of modules along the way. Bongo, personally I am very curious about the voltage drop at the tip switch? "just in";) "I measured the resistance across my switch and came up with 21.4K ohms," I can't see them being that different but perhaps check the battery. Did Steamer not try to vibrate his tip switch?? and remeasure again??hmm You can use a dimmer switch to test....

Well if you have no voltage or reduce voltage at the coils, the Starter Solenoid is the likely cause, could also have been resistance at the kill or in the Red/Black wire to the coils, according to the wiring diagram. Best to test before changing parts or it can get pretty expensive. Because she started once or twice but not running strong, I was curious about juice at the coils! Many a time I've found on old bikes that start warm but not cold or damp; usually the cause is low voltage at the coils. Good!

Hey Steamer, so at time of writing this and as far as I know the engine is still not running. So Steamer the question for the coils is for direction. Because she did start briefly- yes there was voltage! That is only a snap shot! By knowing if there is voltage before cranking, then knowing if the sparkplugs are getting the charge by looking at a testing light, then we can assume all we need is gas. But if she runs then quits - – without turning the key to off - we check again for power at the coils and how much, 11 or 12.3 should be close to battery voltage! So I can’t emphasize enough, it is only a snap shot! That could point the way! I would check the starter relay following the instructions on page 8-16, #5 Likely it is what you played with when she started briefly. This is out of order for troubleshooting but with some luck?? It also sends power across the kill switch down to the starting circuit (which sends signal to Control Module and side stand switch) - AS well lights the coils, all after the kill switch! So side stepping fuel for the moment: I would measure the voltage coming out of the tip switch, as she sits at the moment. Then I’d take a dowel and knock lightly with a hammer to cause it to vibrate some; then measure the voltage again. Any change amounts to knowing more. Personally I would want to also know the resistance reading at the tip switch. Next because it’s easy I would measure the pickup coil. If it is weak the control module can’t switch to fire the coils. Next is the start circuit not easy when you are unsure but… page 8-15 So Steamer we can assume as you just mentioned that the “tci” is not working, but we don’t know the reason for this, yet! It could be perfectly fine! I wouldn’t just throw one on, you run the risk of damaging the unit. Along the way it doesn’t hurt to pull a connection plug apart and clean it while you're there…

Hey Buddy, was wondering how this turned out for you?

I'll be posting a short troubleshooting list for you later in the day. In the meantime could you check the pump motor you see at the end of the vacuum hose. Also if you could make the time to participate in covering the cost of admin by becoming a supporting member, thanks Patch

Does anyone know which relay? Steamer, when we want to troubleshoot no start or whatever the case may be, we need to follow a path eliminate possibilities, check off the list! Just to mention a difference, by this point I would have stopped fuel to the engine by disconnecting the pump. My reasoning would be I've ruled it out 1st and 2nd you are flooding her with every stoke! she is soaked and so are the plugs.. Just a light on the spark plug is all we need, at least from this distance.. In Run position id there power at the coils?

Throttle also properly positioned? push/pull The plug/connectors in the control box? OK I'll refresh by looking at the diagram before suggesting you check in the attic. I'll get back to you

My experience with a 91 was very good. There was some work to do on her as she was original when I picked her out of the crowd. You would need a list of what has been done with regards to upgrades. Patch

Not sure how to follow the bypass you did then? Is there a connector somewhere you have access to?

Steamer could you post a pic of the tip connector?

OK Steamer.. What about the check list?

Thinking about what outcast is saying. The diagram I have shows 1 wire to ground. If I go to the gen 1 troubleshooting (upright position is infinity)! Meaning what goes in comes out. So here is what we could do: how about measuring the impedance at the switch right now, see if this points us away from the switch or not? Not sure why it hasn't been remove and checked yet?

On my "1.5" gen I had to clean the slide switch - right handle bar. Cleaning actually meant taking it apart Then make sure that when you slide and press (3 way) it is working by using your ohms meter! Loose clutch loose brake handles also mess it up! Patch

Emergency stop sensor is to ground, Black wire So do not jumper ** also here’s a note, the diagram shows 1 wire to ground; this suggests that the igniter unit only needs a ground path to shout down. This can be done with one wire to Tip Switch. If however you have a 2 wire Tip Switch – then you would short or jumper the 2 together to complete the Run position! It is important to know for certain: Key & Kill in run position there is power to the coils - Power at the Coils. Yes NO You are correct about the kill switch it goes to the Starter Circuit, one side to Starter Relay the other side to Fuel Pump. This circuit controls both, But Kill also sends power to the coils – then the Igniter switches through ground! Next to know then is the Pickup Coil resistance: Remove the Pickup Coil connector and measure the resistance at the coil Red tester lead to the male pin below the indentation of the connector or Grey Yellow wire pin, Black tester lead to the other male pin or Black wire pin- reading should be 189 to 231 ohms Let us know what you find

Emergency stop sensor is to ground, Black wire So do not jumper wire (unplug and leave it for now)

Hey there Steamer I just found some time, think I'm caught up on the posts. So you mention that in ON position everything works as expect but NO juice to the plus. Seems an obvious question to ask but.. Key on you have measured 12 volts at the coils? I'm just beginning the read of the wiring dia....

"Maybe others will comment on this: I would think that if it goes to ground when tipped you could close the kill and measure for continuity whit the tip switch off and tilted.." Actually it would tell you if it was grounded while still on so long at the kill switch is in kill possition

To add to the confusion, tomorrow I will peek at the schematics as well. So a thought: as you move through the harness and move or change anything, I - would have the high tension wire hook to either a lead to spark plug tester "flashing light" or an old "timing light" With every try I would want to see it flash. Anytime you may change something then try to start, that flash or lack of is important let us know! Next my opinion: you need to test the tip switch- because it doesn't get normal use we don't know its position, it may or may not be stuck! Take it off if you can and put the leads to it and rotate;) This also means that every test also has to include "with jumper & without" for myself I would want to know if the switch goes to ground or is it suppose to be hot! Maybe others will comment on this: I would think that if it goes to ground when tipped you could close the kill and measure for continuity whit the tip switch off and tilted.. There are inexpensive circuit testers that tell you at a glance if it's a ground or positive (key on) for relay checks. Patch

Sorry I see some duplicates above

I don't think it's big enough? What will you do for the main?

Remember the fill-ups, well a couple days in and while we waited for my new Metz’s I looked into the why? Here’s what I found - the foam gasket that seals the air filter had decomposed and drafted down sticking to the main piston slides, go figure! Any lessons learnt? No, confirmed yes. Ride with likeminded people, prepare and stay prepared. To win, take it all in stride. Each mile holds something and in less than a minute it’s past. Patch

Eventually we were just one days ride from a planned stay over and catching up with family and climbing buddies I hadn’t seen in way too long.. That day was one very hot day, most of which we road through long dusty miles of construction, dirt and pitch just fast enough to set cruise in 3rd! Then we hit Ottawa at 4:30 bummer! I remember well stretching my legs out to meet the boiling pavement, the cars around us, the sound of clicking air compressors cycling, the bike fans blasting heat, f**ck me I was melting in my riding gear! Funny note, I saw there’s a kind of patrol car dispenser between lanes just inside city limits; they must have some efficient plate processing cause they were pulling cars over like winning lotto tickets.. After 20 minutes of stop and go I noticed SK. Began wandering a fair amount so, I pushed through lanes and hopped off looking for shade! Coasting down the exit to a light I was looking for a place that we could rest without wandering through the old narrow part of Ottawa, really I had but one choice and I hooked a right, glanced at the rear view and NO SK. Hmmm Another right and no parking, took a left stripped down quickly and walk back to where I last knew he was. At 6’1” & 220 I had the feeling we hadn’t pulled off early enough and that proved to be the case. He collapsed form heat exhaustion at the light, someone helped him up then the bike; I found both parked on the sidewalk! SK. Was offering me something he was holding in his left hand.. hmmm? I took it from him replacing it with a bottle of water, looking around I could see an old church above us and alongside of the highway but with lots of shade, so I explained to SK. And made my way there then back with my clutch handle;) Well as luck would have it we called around but zip and only 2.5 hours away from where we were headed, bummer! But, we had shade snacks and plenty of water, so we chilled. After dust set in it was time to get-r-done and we fabbed up a handle and set off in the dark down to Quebec (a culture within a country) for a cold one with friends!

Once we hit Moose Jaw SK.’s fill ups were like 3 LTs less than I was burning…Hmmm SK. is one of those real steady riders, every glance in the rear view he’d be right on Q; but oddly enough always looking over his shoulders, like he was sitting on a train taking in the scenery;) lol Well one day my right hand started acting up it’s a rebuilt, anyways the thumb and wrist loose mobility. So reaching over with my left I engage cruise, then relaxed my grip; then I get the bright idea to rest it on the control housing? A little bit down the road my bike stall’s around 140klm? When I realised what was happening, 5th still engaged I flip back the flipping kill switch - so freaking funny man… SK pulls up beside me gesturing to pull over cause he’s thinking I had a blowout and didn’t realise. So I pulled over and he walk towards me removing his helmet and staring at the tire; well guys picture the confused look on his face all covered in soot! Right there on the shoulder middle of the prairies, we had one of our best laughs ever… Finally we broke into Ontario, beautiful roads, amazing diversity to be found in the people that settle in Northern Ont. The OPP I thought handled all types of groups very well; but those logging trucks man when they fly past, what a storm they generate. Well one afternoon around the lake head my rear began wandering and my front was hunting fiercely, I began regretting not making the time to swap rubber but they still had very good tread.. I began riding up but still fishen around in the rear so I looked for a spot to pull over and I found a service road and turned in. Being at the lake head you are quite high above the water it is high hill country. The service road had a level plat toe then went straight down to the water front where there is a hydro plant! Well I couldn’t get the bike on the side stand and she laid over on me snapping the toes and elbow and really really hurting my pride! SK. Helped me get her back up, we then pumped the rear and I taped up and we carried on!

Thought I’d share a piece of our trip last fall,. Here is how it started. One Sunday afternoon talking with my girlfriend, mentioning that it would be nice to plan a week trip up through the Rockies. Listening to her reply, suddenly I flashed back to days of well let’s say, before dating. So while sitting there still listening to very sound reasoning these words just kind of snuck out “well if you aren’t coming” reaching for my phone I dialed up SK. “OH-NO-SK”. SK. And I have been friends since childhood. I started traveling the country and beyond in 79, I often said I’d like to take a tour with him and show him just how beautiful it is out there. I often spoke of the unique bond of man on his machine twisting down the highways surrounded by the undeveloped parts of this country! SK. I said, let’s find you a bike it’s time for that road trip to which he replied OK! A week later we picked up an 86 Venture mileage unknown then spent the next 3 weeks making it road worthy spending every spare minute on it. The worst of it seemed to be the carbs! Everything else was well obvious, and like SK. kept reminding me of, “ she has new tires” . Eventually I did get those carbs running after finding the gaskets for the jet housings. This carb issue must of been going on for a long time as, the intakes ring seals very very beat-up! Then it was time to take a quick run through mine and low and behold, she wouldn’t fire up? Hmmm Pushed into the shop and later that night she decided she was coming on the trip. It took us a day & 1/2 to pack then headed out through the smoke, at times driving through field blazing on either side of HW1

As you know the meter is just resister wire and can break. I think the connector at the cms needs to be soldered to get rid of intermittent problems. not uncommon Patch