Patch

I got bits of post 172 Anyways shows that not fully resolving problems that creep up, just leads to more problems.

Thanks Don for the offer! The sarcasm is really just a throwback to the 70's era when companies like AMF had little regard for employee heath and safety. Nor stood behind their brand names with much or any pride and, we the consumer just kept paying through the nose! AMF was in part victim to their own greed. Metrics split the markets, the better long term purchased proved to be Metric cars and bikes! Who here remembers Ronald Reagan's summit with the Japan minister where Japan said "but the U.S. wasn't devastated by a nuclear bomb"Reagan then replied "well what about Detroit" words to that effect. An interesting and changing dynamics were about to take place. So are we off topic? No we are not (my opinion) Lets take a peak at Germany where does there success stem from? 1st we know they as a people have had a difficult history to rebuild from. So how do they keep their economy going and why do so many older tradesmen say "I should have stayed in Germany"? Without their belief in their economy, also pride in what they manufacture they to would fall prey to the up and down cycles and, Germans would drift to better economies throughout the EU or N.America. Instead they invest in their youth training programs healthy life styles and continue to build and expand. My opinion on Harley is they are miscalculating and undermining that which is, the Harley culture! Bang for buck we know because we ride- that they cannot compete with Metric; why, because they chose culture 1st: that is their customer experience. It is true that Canadians view the U.S. as cousins, at least my generation. I don't always understand U.S. decision making nor do I understand our Canadian fed decision making especially as, I am an Albertan by choice! We recently found that many of our core companies packed up, parceled off and sold out. Wow who are we now? Easily answered, we are well trained trades and engineers of a diversity not easily found. We achieved this not through government but through individual and collective negotiations and we leveraged our skills! Lets have no misunderstanding, we shared our resources, we grew our base, we traded skills for "reasonable" income. In return Corporate had to invest in our communities, provide a safe work environment and contribute to our cost of training and next gen development. I think that Harley H.Q. is not doing this and, I'll go as far as saying that they will not be successful long term. They have tossed the pride and culture out again. Harley will likely just be another sticker just like AMF was before the great buyback and rebuild of the family name. Just an opinion

Of coarse I remember AMF! I still keep my long hair in the night table! All that flew freely in the wind of those days! Unlike AMF which was the result of a sale purchase/merger; its now just a simple sellout. Harley is counting beans instead of keeping there ears to their customer base. Harley's have American muscle appeal, so really hard to understand how they plan to reassure their North American base they are riding - American steel? Don could you get me a job in the paint plant? Unless of course they make you breath fresh filtered air; in which case forget it;)

Well very much Bongo. This certainly temps the shortcut leading to reinstalling the plastics; not hard to understand that point of view. What would drive me crazy is not knowing why, or where I might be the next time, should it re happen.

I had some time tonight without distraction so I refreshed and studied up. I completely missed the above post, sorry. So I am stuck on this because, when I was shown troubleshooting it was drilled into me to stay focused and, to not skip over a suspect. Prove it good, bad or, tie it in! Also Steamer I think it a plus that you dug that info up for us, proves how you are really in the game! With the above quote we see that there exist a common thread. So logic tells Bongo and I although I am more of a wrench type guy, we and certainly me, can not look past the tip switch at coils that have power but aren't firing! Not wanting to make this too long some background: Measuring the voltage at the coils is before igniter/cont module and is voltage to the primary positive side, so we expect battery voltage! Then the coil is grounded (completing the circuit) through the igniter to ground: that is the igniter part of the control module. The same module has other duties and the one that has at least me stumped is - logic says that if the safety emergency/tip switch opens the circuit, the "igniter" can not path to ground! If it can as is now the case (engine running), then the tip switch position must have changed?! So if you disconnected the tip then the engine should not fire. If it does then the igniter safety circuit is fried, and will fail permanently soonish. Let me make some sense of what I'm trying to say. In at least two cases we know 21ohms has been measured on running bikes. We also see now that 61 ohms produced fail starts and no run or intermittent problems! Also we see that the new to you switch is reading 61 ohms at least after shipping; that to me isn't that hard to believe. What we don't know is as the book says, when tipped to 50* does it read 0000 you didn't mention that it was tested at angle. Because the bike is running those of us that have had to chase intermittent troubles.... Shouldn't find it hard to ask that a new reading of the installed tip is in order. Listen, there's a lot of harness and connectors to go through that may not need all that testing??? As for the igniter/control module, above he changed "both" and cured the problem, perhaps in his case that was necessary. I can't and don't know why with the info we have now, that the igniter is bad?! Conclusion form here 12.3 key on at coils, things are working correctly, maybe only at the moment. 13V engine running at the coils seems good to me. If you have a little less that's old wiring, if you are around 10V while output is 12 or 13 ish then its an old corroded - wire, circuit or connector and really not a hard fix! I hope this helps clear up some of what must seem like black magic but really its just about staying focused. Patch

Hey Steamer True what flyinfool suggests about a possible bad connection. for one it can and often will, reduce current (current being the heat or amps) or in this case measured voltage. Meaning when checking for 12V and you read 10ish there is usually heat from that resistance. For example a warm wire can show signs of discoloration or shrinking with ripples or connector may have some corrosion and be warm on one side or be loose enough that heat will expand the female and break or reduce contact, then cool and work fine. For the moment and in my reasoning, I believe the control module is functioning because the bike is firing! That module receives the signal from the pickup coil then switchs via ground. Is the engine light off? The tip switch prevents the above from happening by opening or closing a path designers choice. It does not provide voltage to the coils. If you have alligator clips for your tester, would you please keep the red to positive side of coil and black to negative side of battery. Then cycle your switches- key, kill wiring connections for side stand. Keep an eye on the reading it needs to stay near battery voltage 12ish keep going unless it drops then check battery voltage and compare. After those are done move on and repeat but with the harness bundle. I would also open the bar housing for the kill and starter switch, give all that a good close look over, see any signs of discoloring or grime build up. Might as well give it a spay shot of cleaning fluid while its exposed. If per chance you find any voltage drop, then note the area, again measure the battery voltage and compare because that could be a win for us. Keep a sharp eye on the meeter I still don't understand the ohms reading for the tip....hmm I don't see any reason for concern at the moment for the solenoid, it's real just a big single purpose relay operated switch. Its about amperage. At the end and if I forget toooo, you will need to freshen your oil as the fuel will have rendered it worthless

Ok I just saw you tested the tip and the same reading, nice to see the voltage up but makes us wonder why? So I need to think a bit because there must be a common that I am missing. The tip should stop the switch of the coils and other things but not the voltage drop. So red test lead to coil, black lead to battery or ground,,,,hmmm

Not sure I agree, ok I am sure.. If the switch ohms have changed for whatever the reason, we can stop looking and rule it out! Well likely some French in you somewhere, really no other explanation.

When Carl mentioned the connections for the side stand, any chance you fiddled with that wiring? So before anything else is the measured voltage at the coils? With that we need to know the battery voltage key on. I'm not sure if you are up for it but.. Would you be willing to measure the tip switch that you are presently using? Obviously we know for the moment that the control module is good, at the moment it is switching the coils, also the fuel pump is working meaning the starting circuit is also good!

Hmm? need a minute I still laughing at the last couple of minutes

Carl are you telling me you are a French Canadian? Because you know we learn to live with that burden at a very young age..LOL

Well something changed Steamer. So you have your old tip switch hooked up?

How can you be lonely Carl, your bike is running and you are always in the arms of your Girl.

You were lonely and needed company?

Flyinfool made some valid comments (get use to it, he allows us to make mistakes on his behalf;) that are worth keeping in mind when working on the bike. 1st comes to mind is these CV carbs unlike the older mechanical slide carbs behave differently and will require the complete air box installed like flyinfool says, for any high rpm range off the throttle. For now till you get use to it just except that and work with it.. You can do your initial starts and adjustments with the box off and you'll be ok till 2ish 000. Another good point is these fours will seem to put out well on 3 jugs but you'll notice somethin in 5th at high speeds and of course fuel mess pumped through exhaust and oil contamination providing the carb on missing jug is filling of course! Of course much more of a thrill when you're dragging a wasted 4strokes. Anyways kind of cool to get so much support from, such a small club. Patch

Likely Bongo is walking Steamer through it directly, might be easier for..

OR a shipping thingy? It to could be switched off? So test and then we move on

Something isn't adding up Flyinfool, 3 bikes tested 21ohms only the problem bike test's 61. Nope I think the tip switch needs to be still ruled in or out.

Sorry busy morning. Hmm, that's me refreshing! Strange that it too is reading 61ohms? Can you hear or feel the pendulum move on this new to us switch? The reading has to change based on movement Carl is right "of course" if the connection of the side stand is bad, and is something we skipped over because....

Sorry I should of mentioned and you likely already know, as you are lifting the carbs that's the best time. Just off of 5 cranks only each.

No not thinking valve adjustment. But yes for the cover gasket. Post when you can- the dry numbers and then wet. This may sound odd but wet as thin as possible like dot 3 or 401 1/4 tsp. Patch

Well you are a long ways from needing to worry about that now.. With all this work you are in the middle of, did you check compression? Yes I know "low mileage" Patch

Because it's a trike you may have options. But likely that would require extending the connecting harness.

Hmm, 7lakes I agree we can improve most systems for a fraction of what they originally cost. Example braided lines pads that suit your style.... BUT here's is our divide: My 1st hand experience TOURING on this touring bike; the braking system as is, in popper working order with solid suspension - kept my rubber in contact, confidence high and shiny side up! And, on 1 occasion of which there have been many (I do enjoy pushing hard) face to the back of a combine when instinctively I was looking for the better outcome of a slide knowing that would be favorable to kissing his big red ass. Instead and to my surprise she held and bled off speed and inertia like a Queen! I'm and old cowboy so I keep my tramp bags packed and 1 up, 2 up stability and inertia could have rolled the dice snake eyes true, but then again I wouldn't have been pushing as hard either. Except for my springs and oils she stock mechanically but maintained not like a mini van rather like a touring sport's machine/Queen, with no "not street legal" stickers! My anti dives are electrically actuated no indirect links.. Patch

Well put Tim! Not sure why folks don't like the anti dives. I change all hydraulic fluids every year even if the miles don't justify that I do. Since changing out my fork oil to what the informed disagree with;) I haven't had to reload them in many years now but should of refreshed by now. Patch