Patch

A typical scenario : The seller bought the bike from someone who bought the bike after it hadn’t been used in many years. They spent some money and time getting the bike running and as is often the case, rebuilt the carbs!? Often we see that they mention “the carbs just need to be synced”? News flash, if you rebuild the carbs properly, they would have been bench synced! The syncing we assume needs doing is matching to the pressures produced in the cylinders! There is a reason why this is more difficult than just acquiring a set of CarbTunes. So here’s the BIG question: why then would we sync them in a running mode, without first knowing the pressure values within the circuit? I am going to expand on this a bit: if you are tuning which includes syncing and, after 10 minutes of chasing your tail over the pilot settings??? What question can you ask that can be properly answered without knowing what the compression is?

HV at 12.3 - 13 should be expected at the coils when key and kill are in the run position. I can’t stress enough that this needs to be 2nd down from the top of our check list! Troubleshooting the coils as shown in the manual is I think the best way; as we load the system circuits in real time, we see what the combustion cycle experiences! Again being brief here, if the testing gap meets spec – good to go. But you can still go further and monitor consistency, which could point to a week pickup coil or a fault in the control module. Odd misses can be ignition coil not cycling quick enough or, pickup coils. Consistent misses on all 4 isn’t common but the rhythm and visual misses if on all 4 are evident then it’s control module. There are many easy patches to correct HV loss at the ignition coils if cleaning contacts alone won’t correct it. Carbs; seems like everyone can rebuild them after acquiring a kit? Not so but with proper attention to detail and a basic understanding of CV carburetors sure but, you need to be absolutely sure that you have completely gone through every circuit in the castings! Again there is a lot of forum help on this so I’ll brief past. One note on this is to maintain stock air box and filter. Also and until you know for certain always check and reinstall factory jetting sizes, changing jets on an engine that is not performing to spec is usually an unsuccessful effort. Old gas is bad gas and should be disposed of. An old fuel filter is a waste of carb rebuilds. You should not tune an engine with any gasoline additives mixed in the tank. Gas is gasoline, it is not fuel till air/fuel ratio makes it so. I buy 3 gallons of cheap dino oil for frequent changes during the procedures and a can of crankcase flush would be beneficial. I start with the first oil/filter change before testing the engine.

Seems like we all know what torque is these days in large part due to the car manufacturing industry now promoting torque over HP? So I guess there is no need to explain that this all starts off the center of the crank; which is then leveraged through the design components above it. Let’s modernise the old engine for a moment and imagine a check engine light on the dash. I know the gen 2 has such a light but as far as I know it is a basic circuit light only for electronics. Now the OBD 1&2 can or may spit a code and, the check engine light is on suggesting you read the code. But a flashing check engine light should suggest you pull over and check it now. Common codes, 300, 301 ect we know means the monitor system has logged an incorrect value based usually on crank rotation. Easy enough we have a misfire. Back to real life, we are the logic for our older engines, which means we need an old fashion understanding in troubleshooting! So let’s just keep this in mind. Below are some photos of a V4 resting, notice how the piston isn’t centered. This is a very low mileage engine, in no means was it in need of opening other than to serve as a reference for another project. This mirrors what an engine will go through while stored, the V angle and gravity will cause the piston to rest on the spring! Think about it and we’ll get back to it. What else is happening? Well valve springs are also in a compressed partial duty cycle. Some valve seats are exposed and some are seated yet all are exposed to corrosive build up potential. So is it worth considering during the project? A good question and in my experience we usually manage around this with a prep that I’ll share here. But true to say this may have effect. The valve springs will usually if at all show weakness at the higher RPMs where touring bikes rarely play for long. Next is battery voltage referred to by HV (House) if the bike is new to you, you either have a steady battery Voltage or you need a replacement? For the most part of troubleshooting I’m using a charger on trickle.

A Case for Fogging - Venture Riders Forum This post is based on my experience over decades of both getting it right and of course getting things wrong. Like many of us sometimes I just fall for a piece of sport machinery, often the older the better. We stand there looking at a forgotten project and we think “how hard can it be”.. A good question but not the right question! How much will this project cost both in time and money may be the better question? Perhaps you can justify both, or you have already completed a project before, so knowing all too well what it may take in both money and time. My opinion is that it can be very satisfying to inch our way through a project bike, then counting down the days, weeks or months to the first ride. I might add that I have always found the learning curve and interaction of these projects to be stimulating as we inevitably expand our social circle to include interested parties and or forums which often become not just an amazing resource, but lead to interesting and shared experiences! Recently during a discussion with Freebird revolving around an OP’s post on power or lack of while in 5th gave this post some direction! I have wanted to share my earned experience but found it hard to keep the it limited to just around combustion issues! All the other known issues are covered very well here both in the library and through posting. So, I hope to just brief over the other circuits even though they are critical to performance! First every fix requires a budget; you decide what that budget is or how flexible it can be. A Case for Fogging? For those of us old enough and can still remember, that seasonal engines came with manuals describing the proper procedures for storing during out of season “months” (not years) anything from lawnmowers to outboards, bikes or whatever’s. What happened to this procedure? The resulting effects of incorrectly storing an engine is loss of output! That means wasted potential horse power, which in turn means lost torque.

Which is normal! Freebird there is a lot to the mods you mentioned which you plan on to improve! I am certainly going to see this differently because of my addiction to combustion. I'd like to take that input and post a new thread around your mods, if you are OK with that?

Exactly my point frebird, but I know first hand that we can accelerate in 5th providing the output is there. No way can I rap my head around Yamaha producing a bike that can't accelerate in 5th or maintain speed. Rev limits aside she has to pull some in 5th.

Puc why is that bike running so hot? I know I shouldn't ask in this thread Patch

So a related issue that others have posted and also one that I had on my gen 1.5. If you are not powering on all 4, 5th is a miserable gear. Now to be clear here today's explanation of bogging is different then your other post on bogging and, is why it was suggested that you check the air box! Feedback is important! Not powering on all 4 does not mean you have a miss; it means that the combustion cycle is weak on 1 or more cylinders! This can be compression related or improper carb rebuilds. I think you mentioned that you are the 4th owner? Perhaps there is an issue that simply needs discovery! Think about it, if your are in 5th and set cruise, then begin to bleed speed as mentioned there must be a reason. I would start with a compression test it's easy and there's very little cost involved if you have some tools. Patch Don't forget the feedback

Yes that is exactly the point if we unbalance to find a new or to impose a new balance, regardless the motivation, the entire circuit must be a part of the consideration for cause and effect. One of the interpretations I have been visualizing reading these posts with regards to - can't lock rear wheel or more control up front, or more braking power up front - is that the poster must be in an upright position when he/she is wanting to lock the brakes? That's not real world riding! Also and this happened to SK an I last fall; we ran up to a family of Geese crossing the HW while on a down grade well leaned in on hot asphalt. All in here I'd say I grabbed front before I had time to peddle down!! Lets think about that, 1 rotor because mine are linked - still pushing in likely 3rd- then peddle and clutch or clutch and peddle. In such a touring situation I am not in "full patch contact" when I began braking! I would rather keep the odds on not loosing grip at all, because we know that once that starts it always means lost of control and usually end badly. So I feel too much power up front in a panic stop will likely cause a drop as the springs begin to push back and, you are in a forward position or have a passenger out of position as well if riding straight up. If leaned well like I said break grip and who knows..

Not one to dismiss what others experience with their take in choice of Bikes;but; seems to me GW has moved from thrill to a different market class: and also that, the GL 1500 may just be the last of say our crowd? Anyways for myself in touring the VR1300 was a very good fit for my style. I absolutely loved swinging the clever in 2nd after timing my entrance on to the HWs over the years and just ripping through 3rd! Of course this was after I spent the time getting her to giddy-up when I dug my spurs in! You may know I've run some modified 1100 Kats, this one time my boy and I were on an inter city HW low speed stretch of nice asphalt at a light early one morning. My boy hadn't kept up with the work I'd done on the VR. When we took off he just in front and just rolling I let it rip in 1st then quick shifted to 2nd by the time 3rd was up I slowed for the next set of lights. As he pull up he lifted his visor smiled and shook his head, thinking back he was likely wondering if I was ever going to ride like a mature fellow? No way would I take the Kat in a fare fight on a straight run but I can take her by surprise..lol Not sure if any of us here have had the opportunity to ride far on a Cavalcade? I can tell you that should you find one running on all 4 and dialed in, those bikes can really move, very much an old style ride but very comfortable! I often rode her sun up and past sun down, endless torque all gears. I'm putting an engine back together for her now, her finish 1/2 done is blue marble over black pearl. I'm cutting back the marble to a more 50/50 paint as I found the marble took too much of her old style/look away.

Just because you need a wild card to ponder;) Not sure which bike this was on but,, it turned out to be a dirty ignition switch! ACC contact

Ok below is the setup I would use. It isn't expensive and again available at local parts stores. Before I explain the homemade version lets look at some of the results. You certainly have 1 pickup coil that is on the limits for me it is done because she hasn't the speed of the others! Both ing coils are also just above the limits, they are suppose to be below 3! More importantly nowhere have I read the house V or the coil input voltage? For the test and while looking through my shop at stuff you will likely have.. Take a 10" insulated 10ga. wire and strip 1/2" off one side, twist tight with pliers and the other side strip 1" and using your pliers and a star screwdriver make a loop around then twist it with the pliers so its neat and tight, then slip the driver out. The end with the eye goes into the HT boot and the other end - while holding with insulated pliers on the wire shielding, touch that end to the top of the spark plug and start the bike! Just focus on the wire and it proximity to the contact of the plug conductor. 6mm is the minimum air gap that the ignition coil must jump, lets call this a heavy 1/4" before missing! So see how high you can gap it before the miss shows up? Mark that down! Best not try to measure with anything conductive;) Same plug after the above cut the gap to 1/8 +- let her run like that for 30/40 seconds. Does she miss at all? Mark that down as 1/8" test Then shut the bike down and pick you next plug. Try not to run the engine without the plugs firing as we will be accumulating unburnt fuel in the circuit, this might cause confusion. Sun glasses might help you during the test instead of trying to work in the dark. Need I remind you "no pacemakers" around 15000V My guess is that if we see one plug consistently missing on the 1/8" test, it will most likely be the pickup. Patch

I have noticed a common thread with the majority of members on this forum; just all seem to be way to polite, hard to say no!

There seems to me to be one uncertainty in the OP. Do you like this bike enough to turn it into a project? If so you need a budget to work with or from. I am working on a post for just such a turn as is this or say your situation. Problem is, engine fixes come easy to me, alphabet not so much..lol Patch

Wow! So what is it that tells you there is a miss on all 4? You mentioned timing light but also that you couldn't track it. The miss is both when the bike is cold or only at operating temperature? If it is all 4, there must be a common link.. So proving it is all 4 is a must. I know 2 ways one uses the old cheap setup for a spark light tester ( still sold at part stores) the other is the gap tester (which can be done with a screwdriver and a ...) if you want instructions on how let me know. Anyways the idea is to run the engine at ideal then increase and maintain rpms by a 1000 till you get to 5000ish allowing 30 ish seconds at each rise to see if you can pin the range or if it's throughout. Be cautious that you don't overheat the old girl..

Double Yikes, running that road! Remember the height and length of the Venture... Wouldn't want my head over those double lines!!

Unless I missed the post, you haven't check the coils?

Regarding compression testing the idea is to get the crank to as high a speed as possible. So no plugs helps this potential. Hard to fill the cylinders faster when the carbs are off making this a preferred way. However if you are just monitoring for records then of course keep them on. So the most recent test posted do not reflect true readings. Deceleration provides best results for shaking off carbon, also helps the ring landings providing they are not already packed. I think you may be chasing the wrong tune for the bike. Time will show you other options that work better engine to engine. Books, articles, posts and a like are knowledge based, how you implement or understand the results is what matters because, that will determine what the fix is.

Wow I remember that now that you mention it. The problem is the compromise of dragging the mix down! CVs are close enough for the level of design our bikes have. 2mm maybe 4 mm for sure but it has to flow through meaning porting..

I know it seems a lot to absorb or the disappointment of it but, addressing it head on is the better approach in my experience. There are ways to knock compression down quickly if you choose an aggressive approach which is what I would do if it were in my shop. Regarding the plugs: my read is they aren't running hot enough to self clean, so all the problems will stay in play. Regarding vacuum leaks: there may be some but, that would mean lean and that would also mean excess heat, which you don't have! Anyways young fellow let me know if I can help further. Patch

Interesting the manual I am looking at is standard is 142 minimum is 128 and max is 156 psi.

It's all good Bongo. The most difficult regardless of engine is helping others that "with the best of intentions" want to NASA tune an old jug with old carbs. The ratios for me at least are secret not just to me, and truth is even if we know, we don't say;) If I recall you are or were looking at an injection system for one of your projects? You can get a lot closer to ideal and maintain but not with carbs. The best we do is dial in to suit that one circuit at the time of,, and for a short time.

Hey Chaharley, good question dude. Carbon is a problem because we can break it up, we can also say we dissolved it but that isn't really the case. The problem I see with this much carbon is what happens after it becomes free to move! If when writing I knew the limit was 156 hmm not sure if I would have forwarded the suggestion. We or I would rather see the carbon leave through exhaust. So if anybody is interested there are cleaning chemicals such as may be used on engines with plenums. I thought about it in the wee hours, I suppose one could try through the the crankcase ventilation at the bottom of the air box? Again haven't worked on the 1200 so am not familiar with the air box set up!