Patch

Interesting piece of the puzzle, thanks for sharing that.

Brother I could have shouted at you from my place. Yep upper crowd at Blackfoot, they mean well tho? You will find Cypress hills a nice visit and good roads as well. Lot of decent small towns along the way. Our speed limits are high here so might be time to stretch her out a bit, an easy 130 klm and you'll still have cars wanting to pass you, anyways you can see for miles if there any police on the road. Wish I could fire up and join you through the province!

This is due to your experience? Or just "around here" as in the majority have run Metz and failed? How many failed tires have you personally been through? Let me say this, Shinko could next year be the #1 rated tire and also viewed as the best bang for your buck. They would still be in the bucket as far as this rider is concerned as is Dunlops. Brand name anything knows that when a customer experience is poor they loose that customer. This is also why we share opinions on forums for balance, to help others make their own mind up! If this forum was say typical "around here" then maybe second thoughts would become pointless points of view?

And you didn't think of reaching out through the forum? Hmm It would have been a pleasure to render assistance. Anyways if you need help while pushing through CowTown PM me Stay out of downtown it's our Stampede time

Yep I heard about them coming apart. But if you survive Metz says they'll replace it

Right about the left turns. I found I could take them very low on my VR. In my case it has to do with experience, my front tire by the time I finished my tour was much different on the left but nearly new on the right, I mean like almost out of the rapping new. Not all experience is good experience.

You'd think that at our maturity we'd be all thinking with the same head? Guess some people never get old.

Not sure if this helps in anyway 7Lakes? Some tires as we know will last a long time, that can be a good thing. Some tires tho a rider just can't bond with, not sure why that is. A second glance at my fronts it wouldn't be hard for an experienced rider to guess that I tend to lean more on the left then the right. There's a reason lock away somewhere in my history? If you read that post you see I mentioned SK was just taking it all in; while he is an excellent rider he hasn't a 1/4 my touring experience. He ran Mich on his and not once did I see him hunt behind me. He could see I was working to avoid the HW cracks that he could just pull out of, but not with those hard tires, they hunt cracks like a train rides the rails. That isn't to say that your style of riding will be as effected as mine was. But because I had a low trust of them I began riding more upright! That's kind of like doing the two step with a disco Lady;)

The short answer is I didn't trust them period. My opinion is that they are likely good or even better for cruiser bikes? Certainly they were very erratic the fist couple of hundred klm, I remember well them fishtailing. Now I was being follow by some friends in a car and I asked them all bike riders, if they could make out what was going on; they were brand new. If you check my trip post you can see the front looked to be in very good condition. However and again having another just in my trail, he noticed my struggle with hunting up front. In my case I was done with them and chose to swap them out. I could have repaired the rear leak but I happy to get them off. I am not recommending Metz and was surprised to see them for fat touring bikes. But brother what a difference Zero hunting quiet solid grip even on wet roads. Not sure if next time I wouldn't try Mich, they seemed a tad better bike to bike and certainly in deep puddles SK felt zip where as I could feel the deep ones with Metz. Before this bike I usually chose Bridge Stone for almost all our bikes...

May ask the mileage when they became due?

Mobile 1 is a top rate oil no arguments there.

I ran them on my VR13 and had a miserable time with them. Break in took for every, they didn't ware fast but at high speeds none of us trusted them. When I switched to Metz the ride and feel was much more fun and comforting.

I've used synthetics since the 80's it has proven to to extend engine life. Valvoline was one of the top standards in synthetics although I have no idea who is top of the heap these days. Cold starts are better with synthetic oils, and most have rust protection. With synthetic they target performance and stability is chosen during the engineering.

So one thing I see wasn't mentioned above is that filing or sanding down pads should be done in a bucket of water or in a sink with running water. The idea is to trap dust and flush, think about it. https://www.asbestosnetwork.com/High-Risk-Occupations/Auto-Mechanics.shtml

The ignition switches on most bikes can be problematic. Often we see that the light grease turn to a mild conductor from either air traveling through the switch plate depositing grit or contact ware being trapped in the lube.. Such is life You must be a good son, if Mom kept your number;)

I can't believe he lied to you? I'd rather believe he bedded the cam in fertilizer for a month during rainy season and therefore growing the lobes, increasing both lift and duration! That would also explain the tight lash! He may have likely set the enrichers to spill a little extra gas down instead of re jetting to compensate for the extra airflow? It is so much fun searching for the truth These bikes should run well in to the high mileage range with fare maintenance schedules. The Cavalcade's we often saw them for sale with 500K (klm) of course you can't really find parts for them so good thing they were built to last;) Cheers Dude

looks like I forgot to load the picture??

Well that I don't know but if you look at the marks I made on the pic you can see that the connector looks like it has been work on, and that no way it left the factory with that bad area we mentioned. 1 with an arrow Anyways using some simple software I marked a couple of areas that should be checked. zoom about 200 times Have you considered asking Puc for the one off his bike?

You are welcome, I admire your resolve! Do we see an oops 1/2 to the left the second nut up from the bottom? Were you able to clearly show a miss on all 4 with a spark test at 1/8"? For myself that would be a reason to point at the control box.

All the above could have been avoided by one, adding compression tests to your biyearly schedule and fogging before properly storing our sport machines. Also using a fuel stabilizer before storing then emptying the carbs, can save you many common carb problems! Below we see the position of the 2 pistons I have fogged this couple of times over the years but was surprised that even though I haven’t in a very long time I was with minimal press able to move the piston. Patch

Ok next comes the debate about reduced engine life after decarbonizing!? Yes this can be and has been a known issue! Again let us think about it for a moment… Carbon is a very fine and relentless abrasive material. Let’s weigh the options. We can do a tear down and honing, then there are the bearing measuring, grinding and more grinding….. So how do we get away from this? The answer lies in the end results of decarbonizing, and what the results of the next round of testing shows.. The key for me has been simply refreshing the oil and filter 3 times before moving to my final synthetic brand and filter! Now we can’t say for certain that we can capture 100% of the fine carbon but we can get most of it as it will suspend in the oil,,, look at it this way, we don’t have leftover grinding products that got missed so I call it a draw. Let’s not forget that in the case of VR1200s the connecting rods were overloaded in the above scenarios. So that is it, these bikes will just keep running so long as we keep both the compression and opposing sides of the stokes within limits with proper maintenance. I would like to add a personal thought and it has merit based on my understanding of combustion. Fooling with stochie takes math, a visual and a consequential understanding of combustion cycle after cycle. Fine if you are so inclined, I for one enjoy those conversations. But I have yet to see a touring bike benefit from such experimentation, and let us not kid ourselves as that is exactly what jetting and shimming is; there is always a cost attached to that potential gain! We run touring bikes, reliability, range, predictable, and control mixed with some comfort needs to be the end game. These are heavy bikes, off the line 1/4s mean nothing at the end of the tour.

Load your fresh spark plugs, and if the carbs and ignition are ready just add some gas, I have bench tanks so… You are ready to fire it up! I always use a shop fan on the bike to help maintain temperatures! I’ll let it run around 1500 rpm ish for about 10 solid minutes with minimum idle adjustments. With your air box on you can and should give it a couple of short snaps, you will notice as the chems burn away the revs will become more crisp keeping snaps below 4000! The deceleration of the rpm really helps get the rings back in shape! Remember that the oil is contaminated now and shouldn’t be pressed hard or long. For me this is the time to retest the compression for gains. Now scenario 2 is adding the carbon buster and will require that chem to be the first added but, it will need at least 2 refills a day for 2 days then add the Deep Creep. However it is usually necessary to treat each valve both intake and exhaust directly with the chem and a little light wiping with a rag. The reason here is because the deposits that formed as a result of too rich a charge have tendency to stick to the fillets of the valve which will reduce volume in and out as well disturb flow. And so this takes a bit more effort when compared to stuck rings but, is still less effort then tearing it all apart to clean the carbon off! Eye protection again is a smart idea. Very import note to mention, this procedure will severely contaminate the oil so no testing or running the engine with the oil, you should simply drain it. After the soaking is completed refill the crankcase, remember the oil filter hasn’t been contaminated yet. Run the engine as above then check compression, note your gains, then decide if you need to soak longer. If you are good to go then this is when I would flush the crankcase following the can directions. And again you need another fill and this time filter as well. Now it’s time to start tuning so long as you are close to spec, we can call it a WIN.

So what causes the higher compression? That’s pretty easy to answer; there are 2 reasons, both are our fault and boil down to, too rich of a combustion charge! 3 causes come to mind right away - enricher leaking or improperly set? Sticking with this circuit we do see way to often bikes warming way too long on the enricher/choke. How many times do we fire up the bike off season idling with enricher on? I start mine let it run for less than 3 minutes on a crack of choke, then shut it off and let it warm through conduction while I ready for the days ride. Next is the mains, shimmed or worn needles and jets which will cool combustion especially at low RPM. Assuming of course, we are metric riders then this third reason can’t be, as we know these bikes need RPM. Now we break the 2 scenario’s down for correcting. I use now only 2 different products. Scenario 1 is stuck rings! Rings are strange things when we really know how they are designed to work. Firstly they are springs and they must be able to spring in order to lock compression! Not all designs lock the same way. Next they will and should be able to rotate; this has to do with honing angles and the shock of when the ring releases. Thinking about it we can see why they are sharp edged and need stay sharp! Next is heat transfer, this is very important and why glazing is such a bad consequence of using incorrect chemicals in a cylinder; is also why we DO NOT use ATF for freeing stuck rings! So for both I use Deep Creep. Now there are and I have used other products and had used them for many years as combo formula I learnt very young but, Deep Creep works well for me! For high Compression problems I use 1st Carb cleaner then Deep Creep, yep that simple! 1st rule is never put liquid above a piston when or where compression is a potential. This is easily avoided providing we do not reinstall the plugs. Treating stuck rings usually takes 2 days of soaking with Deep Creep. The idea is to fill the combustion chambers to the top allowing to soak overnight. Then engage the trans and jerk the rear wheel, then refill! You will know when after the second refill is gone that she is ready, and you can check with a straw inserted checking to see if it’s dry when removed. Again a couple of jerks on the rear wheel will help break the rings loose. I also fill the intakes at each interval, if you’re up for it, then do the same for the exhaust ports. Truth is I have found that it will creep to the exhaust seats anyways! After 2 or 3 days while work advances on other parts of the bike I will then blow the cylinders out, being careful to not make a mess; eye protection is a good idea!

This also effects scavenging as it reduces velocity in the exhaust pulse, which means just that you fill the volume with less fresh charge, and, also reduce combustion temperature! You would think you paid the price for #2 lack of pressure with 3 right? But no you pay twice because of the collector!! Wait, are we done paying for #2 not quite. We have ignored another influence; Ignition Advance; holy shoot this is turning into a never ending downer, right? Well advance by nature moves forward charge ignition meaning that we load the piston earlier during compression stroke resulting in earlier building pressure and this to requires more energy from #1 to complete #3compression stroke, YIKES. So let’s think about it, we have diminished output at the crank end which both scenarios will do. Can this result in less torque over all gears not just 5th? Yes because we know where torque is developed, crank rotation and torque output is a result of imposed piston pressures. We just tend to notice it more in 5th and then we assume it’s too tall a gear! Under the above conditions it is. This can creep up on us who have owned these bikes for a long time and, we just start looking towards other solutions which we have read and others have tried. Yet Puc just demonstrated on his “almost as old as he is” VR1200 can pull onto the HW in 5th at way to low a speed and rpm’s. That aside I too had the problem with my VR1300 with 5th and corrected it through balancing my compression which was close to senior 1! One final note that is relevant to my direction here; Freebird mentioned upgrading coils; this caught my attention: I agree that a faster, stronger and more reliable secondary output is a plus. Why is this a power gain and or why might this be included with 5th gear problems? Simple really; we know or knew these bikes have power, we refuse to lean towards a lack of power. What we didn’t know was power vacationed away, often unnoticed until 5th. The stronger spark Freebird alludes to is A gain because of the pressure and shape changes the fuel charge will experience during compression!

Compression is the most basic and obvious first step when working with an older engine, especially if it’s a sport machine! There are a few steps that should fall in some kind of order to get a usable dry reading. Battery assessment Fresh oil and filter would be helpful (the cheap stuff) Disconnect fuel delivery such as fuel pump Remove all spark plugs, number them and take your best guess at reading them. *For the record, you cannot tune with old plugs, you can peak at history though. Carbs should be removed or at a minimum drained, this effects dry readings Finally short your coils HT wires With a full HV you should be able to spin the crank fast enough to develop good reading around 5 rotations but keep it going till she maxes out. Up front guys let me say, don’t panic with low results unless they are below 60psi. Let’s assume the reading are 90, 70, 120 & 179 The key here is 179, the others are what I would expect with an engine that hasn’t run years. If you just purchased this bike, chances are good that you will end up with close to factory performance potential. Switching it up we read 170, 95, 185, 190 This can be more troublesome than the lower readings on these touring V4s which are moderate compression designs made to run off 87 octane. However on the VR1300 the design specs allow for this extra piston pressure! However cylinder 2 is not contributing enough torque resulting in slowing the next up in the firing order. Because # 2 isn’t producing enough pressure it has the effect of having slowed the expected crank speed. Then next in line for the compression stroke on 3, which is also higher than “standard” pressure thus it requires more energy to complete the compression stroke. This stroke is in fact going to be achieved through the robbing energy out of the crank that was developed by #1 and transferred to the crank shaft via rotational effort, and the cycle repeats!