Patch

100% agreed% The reason I didn't mention it but covered it under engine life is because it gets kind of techy for the guys without training. The carbon for those that don't know is a result of the missed thermal properties. Not sure what first introduced me to to deepcreep but it has certainly been a great addition to my games. In almost all cases where I've used it for soaking rings I've also seen it creep up, around and through carbon, and is why I often suggest applying it down the venturi. Sometimes it takes several applications but, cost effective and non harmful. Truth is I didn't even know they sold a stuck ring products. Goes to show the size of my world;)

In time I'd like to add how I go about my trouble shooting by adding hints to the fogging thread. Snyper I could be wrong but it is what my worksheet shows me. I haven't worked on this model, therefore I have to rely on the specs and graphs provided in the manual, after which I just put my experience to the plow. I can also add that no. 2 is slowing the complete firing chain down. The longer this persists the shorter the life of this engine. Without the compression test there would have been too much missing information and,,, this would have just been another backfire issue. Is also why slunker(not sure I spellt it..) deserves credit, he nail the problem just not the source! This is where I sometimes have advantage, I'm hooked on combustion. This engine ran on 3 jugs and at times 2!?! Not because of 4 tho/ it still has the same ignition hardware/ it likely powered up over 1/4 throttle which made the bike feel OK. But no. 2 was and is still not contributing to torque because it lacks thermal expansion. 323.5 cc at 10:1 which should read 220 psi static, and should output about 1000 pounds of force at peak diminishing at BDC say maybe Now you know why;) and if I'm right then all you have to do is follow the logical path, and please if I'm wrong let me know.

I give, whats the question?

So if there is no o2 there can be no ignition. That does not solve the problem tho, it masks it, at least in this OPs case.

Very well thought out sldunker! And because we only had no. 4 190 to work through in my opinion you were on the right track. There is of course one other likely that we would add especially knowing the carbs had been disassembled, which is the needle jet. We would look for proper reassembly shims springs and washers; often we find that the needle is stiff and so can't slip through the main jet, binds/not seating/ wearing.... OK so 4 is not the problem as I read it. 2 is the problem 4 is the igniter! I can write this up for you but it gets a bit techy. I will with and if no objections elaborate on the fogging thread? So this is in short a thermal efficiency problem on no. 2! Because this is a 10:1 the circuit is designed to take advantage of this CR heat. Because no. 2 is at the moment more like a toaster than a high compression performance engine she is well beyond her limits! All the results you post are below my expectations for the listed mileage. This is going to cost at least $12.00 to correct and if it were me I would follow the fogging thread for instructions on how to. I would do all 4 jugs, I am guessing you will end up around 215 or 218 but no. 2 will be a little slower as she is well stuck. The important thing to remember is that Deepcreep does not burn and will continue to work at very high temperatures. This is one engine I would also spray down through the the carbs venturi to clean the valve seats 2 second burst there. 1 3 2 4 when I overlaid the results it confirmed my suspicions... Let me know if you have any questions Patch

Thanks, I see a couple of things.. Easy stuff! So I'm back a earlier than anticipated, I'll work out a plan for you and you can decide which way is best for you.

You bought the bike in 17, had 24000 miles. This is a 10:1 with a standard of 220 psi min 175. Why haven't you posted all the readings? 190 is low for this mileage in my opinion. If you wish to fix it once and for all lets build a complete picture. Patch PS I'm not back in town till late tomorrow, meaning I can't respond quicker..

So check this out.. Was watching CNN (i know..) at lunch MT they had a report on Sturgis. After watching on youtube I got one of the suggestions we all get based on searches. here's the link and talk about timing..

I promised myself I wouldn't post this morning rather just checkup on my mail! I think I have a touch of Erk; guessing that's bad news for my Swiss chick (inside joke) The project question may be interpreted as What Drives a Gearhead. The "nanny system" it is everywhere, in almost every set of wheels produced these days. Look at the cost to train a pilot. Fly by wire has taken on a whole new meaning. An F35 example: look at the price of this flying gun toting, processor driven peace maker? Imagine the training for the techs and ground crews that keep them flying.. Think how many of them look to escape the rules just by puttering up some simple math and ratios. Weekend gearheads, they do some pretty fun stuff for pennies.. I took a nice car some 7 years back put it on the jacks and spent 10k and 6 months evenings and weekends just putzing around with a perfectly good fuel system. Center Of Gravity has in my lifetime been the most difficult of all that has held my attention. The Spider was & is like all other projects, full of compromises. COG can also be used as a marketing term as the sales.... explains the stability for their sales mandate. Street talk and rallies will inevitably season conversations around any unit; and in the case of a Spider I guess that rotation would be the gist of concerns, "what if the rear breaks contact" left/right or worse straight up. thanks and good point Patch

Thanks for posting those. Hard to imagine the seed of inspiration but, to be able to steer the .... must have taken some solid gearheading...

That was the name bouncing around my head Don. Thought it came to easily funny enough, so I simply discarded it.. yikes

The OP was looking for his issue, and is why we don't see the complete picture in this thread. But to answer your question, one of the most common complaints we see with these 1300s is 5th gear is lacking power, can't accelerate, 5th is too high and therefore... This is often when we know there is a cylinder under performing or dead. Lots of things can cause this and its not always an obvious problem when, you can't compare the performance say to last years/seasons ride. And we don't all see the answers the same way with regards to 5th gear, and that's ok too. But for myself I here 5th gear problems I think torque is missing a player.

Well you had a favorable wind on your stern pushing you, I'm pretty sure I saw your wife flying a handkerchief as a down wind sail as well..

This is very dangerous, I would not recommend driving the bike. The final drive can and eventually will lock up and you will be thrown. My pinion gear, I was very lucky to make it back from my trip.

Certainly I know the product and have used it out of necessity a couple of times. I can't remember the ratios but I'll look them up. If I may add this and you'll know what works best (of course I'd like to hear back) but remember that too much will confuse your analyzing of the results. Also consider phase 3 if it gets to high you'll be popping again.. Anyways Luv I enjoy your enthusiasm.. By the way, Jeff mentioned his tamper caps are still in place, talk about giving up racing.. Hmm But connect a dot and we know he's running more lean then most of us on that circuit.

Fuel ignition and duration are a phase during the compression and expected timed combustion where all the focus is on heat and expansion. This takes place after spark ignition! There is a term used to denote this phase but I'll leave that for another time. And of course the octane increase may cause an unavoidable effect to the 3rd phase of ignition which is after burn. But that is more on the math side of efficiency..

Yes and likely before dino tuning was just next door, more like seat of the pants tuning. Running in the red zone there's no choice. I used a spray chem with a black light to check for cracks in the springs, but I can't remember the name.. a blue dye??? made by Moly?

I'll share these thoughts with you all. Mileage to a tank is just a result of... In motorcycling it isn't usually the highest priority. The closer you are to stoichiometric the more efficient the burn, the quicker the ignition of fractured vortexes, the lesser remaining after burn. A fare question would be to ask Jeff what spark plugs no. type and heat range or any other simple changes. Also a fare question would be main jets, shims and needles. Jeff mentions "bone stock" but are they newish? If mileage is or becomes a concern then an easy option is diaphragm springs, up by one number. Stretching them will not help. Drilling is irreversible so I wouldn't. Luvmy40s bike is a 1200 cc and displacement matters. If I recall Luv has a shim but also I think a pilot jetting issue? Trying to recall Luv, didn't you post pilot adjustment past 4 turns?? Seems to me you mentioned this and I didn't bring it up because my thoughts were around the compression part of the conversation? Something I rarely would suggest for anybody but for Luv perhaps one step up in octane while the compression is still high, and one step down in pilot jet, or just start the tune at 1 &1/4 turns, with, as small an adjustment in 8 to 10 second intervals and based on rpm only! You may just find that this tighter pattern will also solve the low rpm heat issue as well.. This suggests that stoichio will give you best bang per gram of fuel for your buck but, can only be achieved when all the combustion parameters are close to being met.. Patch

No problem. The above questions would be a good start. Also just because we are now in the range of 3800 to 4000 rpms can you check that the ignition advance is still hooked up. Mention anything out of your usual experience that comes to mind, you never know what that might suggest to us, helps us build a more complete picture. I'll read up on your model

With the low mileage your bike has you can expect top marks from the compression test. Even with stuck rings if that be the case, its such an easy fix and worth the effort. An example I didn't mention - for some guys who have low exhaust pipe temperatures on 1 or 2 cylinders and are sure the carb set is in proper working order will first try and tune their way past that. There are times that the pilot circuit is the fault; if not then a stuck ring set is the next likely cause. I also avoided the conversation of actual operating compression so far in this post (load verses no load just like voltage) because it is a much more entailed discussion. But, for relevance sake a quick brief. We test compression then match results to the (standards) posted for that engine, the reason for the posted limits are many but, we can by rule of thumb assume the actual operation pressures as a result, which are quite a bit higher and is why the limits matter. In general think of this - the closer we are to stoichiometric the more efficient the pressure is - pushing the piston down. So one without the other are simply just 2 benchmarks;;; but locked up together with a well timed ignition then- the path of least resistance is, the rotation of the crank. So this is why we should always start with a compression check before rebuilding the carbs. A leak-down test - now that takes more effort and experience to sort out. Anyways that's how I know it to work. Patch

If you're up for it you could let it harden enough to wet sand the orange peel out, then apply 2 thinner coats. I know epoxy clear is challenging. Nice fix tho and quick to.

I am certainly all for tuning the ride to the riders style. I'll tell you guys a good one. I road 4000 klm with kinked bars, my rear and front weren't tracking together. I think it took me a day to notice.. Imagine what that must of looked like to the traffic behind me the things we do

Will, I expanded the picture you posted I can see the tamper cap has been removed, so it is possible that the carbs may have been gone though as the PO mentioned. The tamper proof screw on the diagram cap is still in place which means little as most of us have fittings that work without breaking that pin. In section 5 of the manual show the carb assembly, looking through closely I can’t find or know of any vacuum T outside of intake no.2 (left front) which is which has a clip that roots the vacuum tube for ignition advance you can find that at the bottom of page 3.3 I also notice that on intake 3 (I think) is a small crack about ¼ - 5/16 left to right is forming. This isn’t in my experience a big deal as most pipes are 3 layers bit you may want to swipe it with some gasket seal. Also noticed that the throttle shafts appear dry, I use DeepCreep there as well as it also conditions and tends to not collect chit. Sorry if you felt I put you on the spot in my kidding around.

Yes that was the point we made earlier reducing the trail for (actual driving trends). Like everything in life and machinery there's always trade offs.. Wow very clean and polished. I guess for many of us who don't have need anymore to use the math we just forget it. I had all kinds of formulas, notes and links to very good stuff, much of which was very old school stuff written by guys that have since... Anyways I used 4:1mm to get the reduction