cowpuc

Offer stands Maddy, if you change your mind and decide to go for it just give me a quick heads up. The bikes are covered, have occasional parts robbed off em and are going no where that I know of. Our zip here is 49445, if you ever want to do a quick mileage/time to travel guess that should get you a fair estimate.. Your welcome and all the very best on the build no matter what you go!!

Sky is SPOT ON here Cha = there aint NO WAY I was even remotely suggesting that anyone that even remotely cares whether they drop a cylinder, or two,, or three for that matter , on a cross country tour attempt such a thing. GOOD POINT SKY! My Venture adventure since day one has been all about answering the incomplete question of how hard, how far, how much utter abuse can I push one of these $500 scoots - DEFINITELY not something to consider if one really cares. My Venturedom has been all about riding them as far as possible with as little maintenance $$$'s as possible to get as much bang for the initial as possible and, when it croaked, grab another $500 1st Gen with no 2nd gear and keep on CTFW. I made my living spinning wrenches/running a dealership/working on bikes - the very last thing I EVER wanted to due or was willing to do was spend my spare time working on a beat up old Yamaha .. I will say this though Cha,, and I REALLY mean this,, if had er down to stickin in those new gaskets up there to slow down leaks (another pointless endeavor as far as my riding needs on a $500 1st Gen goes = oil is cheap and I have found that after ya get a couple hundred thou on em and have never changed those gaskets = oil changes almost becomes a thing of the past - you just watch the oil warning light as ya throttle up and when the oil light comes on as the oil rocks off the sensor ya stop and refill = there is a point where the leaks equalize to the oil change intervals so ya just keep adding oil = no more oil changes = happens at just over 200k IMHO ) I would DEFINITELY NOT close er up without rolling the cam lobes on each valve away from their shim bucket and at least slipping a feeler gauge under it = in my world,, not doing so would be inviting Murph to my party and I dont ever do that!!!!

YEEEOUCHY OUCH OUCH OUCH = that right there is ugly!! Definitely repairable (anything is) and I am sure you are finding that out by reading Randy's amazing repair story Maddy BUT,, thru all the smoke,, PLEASE remember this,,,,, my offer about a a parts bike with good frame stands and is yours = free of charge!! I have donated freebie parts a couple times to help club members at times of need (and have had others help me MANY times over) and consider it a way of life around here - just an FYI to let you know the offer is for real. All of my parts bikes are 83's (my 1st Venture was a 1984 but that one is longggg gone) and I am positive that one of them would make an awesome frame donor for your build. I am not sure on the later = MK2 1st Gen frames for a donor = never owned one but I do believe that they have a longer drive train assembly in them when compared to an 83,,, I have no clue whether or not that is indicitive of a change in frame design/change in subframe design or just swing arm/driveshaft assemble differences.. It might not be a bad idea to ask here in the Water Hole section (kind of a club hang out) and also over on the clubs Face Book page as I think some of the guru's that use to hang out here now hang out on our Face Book page. Any of that make sense? Hook your trailer back up and head to Michigan!!

RSV vs 1st Gen GRUDGE MATCH = MD, 2019 = ,,, looser buys the Pecan Pie and Vanilla Ice Cream :bikersmilie::checkeredflag::checkeredflag::checkeredflag::checkeredflag: Glad ya got er done brother = almost ride time!!!

I have had really good luck avoiding the hard starting routine thru the years by keeping the interior of the OEM 2 brush Starter clean from brush dust and grime. It all started (pun intended) with another dorky, science experiment of a theory of mine where my pea brain came up with the idea that build up of debris on the armature was causing loss of resistance between the armature segments which resulted in a sluggish starter = in my case, keeping the starter armature cleaned worked amazingly well = good as new!

,,, I forgot about Honda Bongo ,,, a Honda Rune has been at the penacle of my wish list for EVER!! :guitarist 2:

I hear ya 40,, soooo many scoots to choose from and, being only able to ride one at a time,, soooo hard to choose. I passed on a gorgeous 2012 Raider last year - had 3600 miles on it, some pretty cool xtra's and the guy wanted 4 for it.. Not feeling well and already having several scoots sitting around, I passed = and regret it to this day!! Always been a Chop lover and, IMHO - as far as Cookie Cutter OEM Chops = that Raider is numeral uno!! Maggie (my R1) has really spoiled me in the "OHHHH MY GOSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" performance department and is the PERFECT bucket list scoot for performance obsessed lop eared varmints IMHO.. I have NEVER ridden her when I did not pull back in the driveway still shaken with Adrenaline pump and a HUGE smile on the mug BUT,, seriously,,, being a V-4 addict,, I am still to this day watching for that budget bucket big block V-Max = the 1700, not the 1200 = already done that. I know that's nuts cause Maggie, with her teeny little 1000cc inline 4 will blow past one of those new Maxes like it aint even on the same planet (been there) but,, Maggie aint a new big block V-Max . Strange varmints we bike lovers can be cant we:missingtooth:? I think a good ways above the V-Max though would be another 40's Indian Chief followed closely by another Flat Head HD (like Olivia) from that same era only this time a 74 inch UL.. Having crossed the country several times on long bike hand built Chops my absolute need to build another is somewhat fullfilled,, maybe... I do feel a urning to build another Sporty trike just for play,, decent Sporties are REAL cheap now (got a neighbor with an 08 with 8000 miles on it that offered it to me for 3500,, still considering that one = its the Red scoot in the vid below),, now if I could get my beat up ol worn out geezer body to agree that it's got one more build left in it:missingtooth:.. Good thread 40!!! I bid you all the best in trying to figure out what ya wanna do and how ya wanna get there.. I will say this in closing my friend,, dont under invest in the time ya have brother,, if you come up with something ya just gotta own = save your pennies and buy it cause in a blink,, your riding days will slow down as you slip into a whole new chapter of life in the fast lane

Maddy,, if you find out the frame on your scoot actually does have a break in it and decide you are going to go for it on a repair, I have another option for you. I still have a couple parts bikes out back which I KNOW have solid frames under em, got titles for em too. Come to Michigan and take one home = free of charge! Then, when you pull it down to build a scoot from 2 bikes, you could take the freebie frame and reinforce it BEFORE it fails/to ensure it will never fail = much easier job and, unless you have a frame jig, much less chance of ending up out of alignment in places ya dont want your scoot to be out of alignment in... Personally, I still got money on your scoot not having a busted frame (been riding em since 87 and have yet to have a busted frame BUT - I KNOW it does happen) but the "sag" is related to the suspention issues = thats where my bet is at.. I learned a long time ago not to listen to PO's suggestions as to why the bike I just bought doesnt run,,, starting from scratch with my own diagnosis process usually ended up being the best option for getting that sucker headed down the road again:guitarist 2:! Slow and steady,, solving one problem at a time! I got a hunch, from what I am seeing of the projects you have already completed:yikes:,, you know exactly what I am tryin to say

:sign yeah that::sign yeah that:!!!! Unless ya just gotta have the Class system = :sign yeah that::sign yeah that: Personnally,, I have found the old school, easy peasy manual fill to be the most trust worthy, take a hit for me companion a lop eared long distance 1st Gen ridin varmint could ask for!! GOOD SUGGESTION Vick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd be guessin the "fuses in bag" routine was the PO's answer to the nagging question of what to do about the 1st Gen Failing Fuse Panel Syndrome. What happens is, over time, the ears on the ends of the original fuse holders in the panels loose their boing and their ability to maintain connection on those dorky glass fuses and whammo,, lectrical problems.. Matter of fact,, many of us had scoots with the syndrome so bad that those ears actually broke off = not good thing when half way across the country with an 8 year old on the back seat screamin = how we gonna get home Daddy!! I would get away from the fuse in the bag personally and, at a minimum pick up a few stand alone GM fuse terminals and wire em in independantly (easy fix for on the road repair of the fuse panel). Another very common fix is the GM fuse style panel = works AWESOME and very tidy IMHO..

Puc n Tip,, yes! Can't wait!!

By the way Windy, Tweeksis (our 83) has a Marks Collector under her belly somewhere, if ya need to get an idea of a Mark's configuration - I can snap some pics if need be!

:sign yeah that::sign yeah that:!!!!!!!!!!!! Around Puc's Place Zag's scoot is VERY WELL known as "Frankie" and WOWZY WOW WOW WOW Windy,, ya got get in line on the lovin em end of things, and don't tell Zag this. cause ol Pucster has had the and been deeply with Frankie for many moon:guitarist 2:!! Matter of fact,, just seein those pics of Frankie again brings on so much that there was no need for dye to green up the St. Pats day harbor over here near Puc's place:sign busted:!!! Seriously,,, if I were a judge on a Chop building contest between the likes of the Tuttles, Arlen Ness and our Zag with his Frankie = ZAG N FRANKIE = :sign I win: = 1st Place everytime!!!

That wire leading to the battery is a sensor wire for the CMU readout. The OEM spec batteries came with an xtra hole in the above the normal 6 holes for filling with acid that that sensor wire would plug into. When you turn the key on and the dash readout goes thru its tests, one of those readouts will be a battery test. If that test fails you will get the little battery symbol lit and little red nusiance of a flashing light on the dash telling you there is a issue with the battery. Many of us (I cant remember when the last battery sensor I had intact on a 1st Gen was) just bypass that sensor by stickin a resistor in line with it and taking the lead to 12vdc = tricks the CMU into thinking all is well.. Without going downstairs and checking to verify, that long weld looks normal to me.. I think it might be where Mom Yam relieved the frame tube for bending but cutting it and then Jig welded it back together - just a thought,, will double check my frame when I get a sec. Does your scoot have the dampner and air shrader assembly on the left side below the side cover? WOWZY WOW WOW WOW ya varmint!! YA GOT A BUNCH OF GOODIES ON THAT PUPPY!! ABSOLUTELY LOVIN ON THAT TAIL LIGHT

now THAT is what I am talking about,,,, SHE IS GORGEOUS MADDY:thumbsup:!! Ya do indeed got yourself a lot of project there my friend but you also have a LOT to work with:thumbsup:!!!!! Looking at the fairing "glove box" on the right hand side (opposite of the radio/cassette), those compartments "lids" are different to me and my memory of my 84 Royale. I can see what others would think no Class System as it does not appear to have normal controls for such BUT, I notice the upper section of that box cover has a chrome pull bar on it? None of my Standards have that but my Royale had it on both sides like your does, IMHO, that little pull bar is indicitive of a removeable carrier tray for components hidden inside the compartment. Then I notice what appears to be a little knob on the left of the bottom door and what looks like a rocker switch located to the outside of that compartment door - this is something I have never seen before and I gotta ask, is there any chance here that those are indeed the Class Controls for the 83? My 84 had a factory CB located in that bottom section and the CLass panel was above in the upper compartment right beside where your bike has the Chrome pull handle.

OUTSTANDING SKIDDER:clap2:!!! GOOD ON YA BROTHER:thumbsup2:!! Now you KNOW what we gotta know now right? Ammo, brand/grain? Accuracy,, MOA,Sub-MOA? Distance tested? THANKS FOR THE PIC Skid - looking good there IMHO!!

Yeppers Snype,, as explained to Cha above,, never not ever did I do valves on one of my 1st Gens.. Also as mentioned by Cha above,, Power Washers can be deadly to bearing life if not used VERY carefully.. Personally, give me a used bike that has multiple years of road grime on it anyday over a bike whose owner uses a Power Washer to keep his steed clean. This is probably wayyy out there to some but,,, think of it this way,, lets just talk about one area to keep it simple,, lets think about the grease seal on the right hand side of the rear wheel that serves as a seal against the bushing that captures the bearings of the rear axle. What happens when an unsuspecting owner, wanting to keep his scoot looking tops, hits that area with a power washer? Water can be forced past the seal and into the center of the hub where it can promote all kinds of funny corrosions. IMHO, the seal that the water got past is not only designed to keep stuff out, it also serves to keep stuff in,, therefore,, the water moved into the area by the pressure washer is probably going to have to be phyisically removed by the owner or corrostion can (and does) happen.. Now think of allll the little bearing and bushing surfaces on the bike and then remember,, I haven't even mentioned electrical/electronical components as Cha started to mention...

I have done a lot of valve adjusting thru the years Cha,, just never ever found it necessary on a 1st Gen Venture to get my $$'s worth out of em. The early Honda CRF's were probably the worst of the worst about holding valve lash tolerance (followed not to far behind was the early YZF's) IMHO and it was an every other weekend resetting of the valves on those things. Personally (and this is just another Puc opinion so take it for what's its worth), I attribute the minimal wear on the valve train/lash that I have noted on the Venture to: over sized shims, not having to spin them up to high in the R's to get good performance, multi valves (4 valve heads) = less spring pressure needed, and keeping clean oil in it. Wanna hear something really funny? The guy who owned Tweeksis (1st Gen we are riding now) was a real meticulous lop eared varmint. The guy who I got the bike from forwarded all of Tweeksis's log books that that previous owner had compiled thru 60k miles of ownership. During that time this champ (DenDen was his screen name here I believe) did all kinds of things to Tweeksis: amazing things like fixing 2nd gear, full Barnette clutch, Marks collector, full stainless update on lines and on and on and on.. One of the things I noticed in his notes was his love for playing with the valve lash.. It's been a while now but I think, last count, he had set the valves on Tweeksis no less than 8 times (what is really funny is, of all my never adjusted valves Ventures all ending up at well over 200k upon retirement, she has the noisiest valve train I have ever had in a Venture .. Of course,, I know that this is not necessarily a bad thing (you ever solids in a car or owned a Flat Head HD you will find out that loose valve lash is wayyyy better than valve face burning tight ) in that it really doesnt hurt anything except for performance.

IMHO Cp, it's hard to say that without checking it out. It could be as simple as brake drag, a dirty air filter, a plugged air box nozzle as mentioned earlier. In response to your ?; here is the scoop on what I found on Tweeks back in 14. https://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?86325-Carb-metering-rod-question&highlight=tweeks+metering In the end I did find resolve, got her MPG back up to par and got er back to her responsive self by using stacks of Nylon washers from Ace Hardware @.03 cents each for washers of 10 thou each (.010) - I just took my digital verniers down to Ace and started diggin. I just measured the metering rod O.D. for I.D. of the washers and went with the O.D. of the plastic metering rod factory stacker as showing in the first post in the above thread as a guideline for the O.D. of the washers. I think I bought 2 dollars for worth of "shims" and had enough left over to do another members bike (a friend by the name of FlyDay) which the last I heard = down the metering rods help him too. I think it was Skydoc who mentioned in the thread I posted above to stay away from using anything but nylon for shimming due to adding weight to the slide = that is exactly what I found too, best to stay with plastic to replace the factory plastic tune stack with. Adding weight on the slide will have an effect on slide action. I have done a fair amount of tuning by metering rod going all the way back to the 60's. At one time I was working for a local Honda shop prepping Mini Trails and part of the prep was setting the metering rod for throttle response. Even those little Honda's had the industry standard that we back yard mechanics have used for many years or a "E" clip in a notch on the metering rod and several notches to adjust with (move the clip from one notch to the other = up or down). Many years ago, MX bikes were carbed and it was common place for track riders to "tune" out flat spots of their bikes tune using this industry standard. I was SHOCKED to discover Yamaha veared away from this long time tuning tool on the Venture.

Check air filter(s) and make sure they are clean (check air box yearly for mice nesting), use paper OEM not oil dampened like KnN. Check plug gaps = 32 thou. Check plug color = should be tan = dont over choke on start ups. If plugs are blackened and you dont over choke, you may have oblonged emusion tubes and/or need to drop the slide needles - I dropped them 60 thou on Tweeks and went from 30ish to 42/45mpg = oblonged tubes allowing for mains to pass to much fuel past the metering rods = running rich. Check pipes for signs of blockage. Color of muffler tips? Black? Does it smell like heavy exhaust? Check each carb overflow tube for dampness,, floats set high and its dripping out of overflow tubes? Check slide diaphrams for pin holes. Check sync. Put bike on center stand, smack brake calipers with rubber mallet and make sure they smack loose = do both sides on front = spin front wheel to make sure both calipers have released. Pull front brake lever hard, release lever, spin front wheel and make sure brake caliper is full release, if sticky at all clean pistons - dont forget to lube pivot on lever at perch. Press down on rear brake hard, release, spin front wheel to make sure left side linked brake caliper is fully releasing, lube pivot(s) on rear brake. Do rear caliper = smack with rubber hammer = spin rear wheel for feel of how it spins with no brake drag, rehit rear brake hard, recheck caliper release. Read Max PSI for MAX Load on tire carcass, run max psi per tire manufacturer rating as stated on tire - not owners manual. 45 rear is common , 50 front is not uncommon if your running Continenital Tour. Use max air specs.

Luck is wished!!:fingers-crossed-emo Price for wished luck = 's,,,, LOTS AND LOTS OF 's Maddy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stock airbox and stock air filter, both recently checked for any flaws that could alter factory air volume control induced by proper airbox/air filter dynamics = even little things like crankcase vent hose falling out of bottom of box can create lean conditions. Double check Vacuum lines associated with spark advance and also check intake boots for vacuum leaks. Also ohm out/check spark advance modual next to TCI.

WOWZY WOW WOW WOW does this all sound familiar Grubs,, big difference though is mine showed up when I turned 60ish where your came in at 22 = I can see what that young age would have :stickpoke:in the medical field.. Dead of winter, sittin in my family Dr.'s office for a follow up on some brain fluid leakage repair, nurse noticed HR below 25bps, called in the Dr., switched over to a portable EKG to make sure the 24bps was not due to Finger monitor being out of calibration, Dr. comes in, see's 24bps on EKG (this actually looks a lot like the Dr.), says stand up, stod up and HR went instantly to 102bps, another , Dr. would not let me leave for fear of frost bite (Fool was feeling much better at that time and was actively able to and :stickpoke:us with WWW), she was insistant that we go right to Cardiologist for Tuner, Cardiologist and her had big arquement related to whether or not I was passing out - she was concerned with my "quality of life" - Cardio concerned with Insurance Companies only approving for Tuner if I was passing out, made appointment for next day @ Cardio. Went full course with Cardio doing everything from excersize plan while wearing EKG belt monitor to drug therapy, bunch of stress tests including some nuclear stuff. A few months into testing I passed out when standing up off front porch bench and messed up my Dupytren's hands pretty good, was in for the Tuner install 2 days later with a Dr.'s sheet that had "Sic Sinus" written on it . During the pre-op for the Tuner install is where they found out I have an enlarged heart and also found the Micro Brewing of blood happening in my urine which led to them discovering Prostate Cancer which lead to them finding Abdominal Cancer which probably saved my life :guitarist 2:cause that puppy was doubling in size every 90 days and the tumor attached to my bladder was the size of my fist when they pulled it.. Here is an interesting thing Grubs,, when first installed I was running on the Tuner just under 95% of the time, most recent checkup = 78%! You see anything like that in your experience? Cant help but wonder what kind of lop eared varmint ol Fool will be once he gets his tuner... Will running at 60bps cause his blood to warm up above the ice in the veins a we have come to know him? Will this produce a reduced change in his general altitude to have to cover the planet with WW or will his love for :snow: actually be increased? One thing for sure,,, there is never a dull moment around this joint as long as we have the likes of our lop eared Fool varmint roaming the halls of the clubhouse pulling his WWW in a wagon behind him:thumbsup:!!!!

Prayers Up and Blessings Down my brother!!! Tell your Cardiologist installer dude and the guy from Medtronics who will probably be there making sure you get the correct unit that you want a Tuner with xtra length in the leads. I KNOW that you are fully aware of the hassles associated with wire harnesses that are cut so short that they are hard to work with and can come unplugged in the terminals.. With all the bendin,twistin and backflippin you do around here to keep us on our toes, it would probably not be a good thing if the leads came unplugged from your new Screamin Eagle Race Tuner during a backflip brother!! See you soon!! Prayers Up!! Puc

The big twin HD engines, specifically speaking of the Pan/Shovel's, Shovels, Evo's and Twin Cams (I know nothing of the 4 valve Milwaukee 8 - have yet to get my grubby little fingers on one and know from experience that the Flat Heads and "J" motors take a LOT of on road tweekin to keep em going) were/are actually pretty solid motors for an Air Cooled V-Twin with a "fork n knife" rod arrangement. My 78 Shovel Lowrider had just over 100K on her when I offed her to build a garage back in 82. I won her brand new on a Job Site raffle and rode the socks off her. For a Bowling Pin bike (AMF) she proved amazingly durable. Yes,, I did have to spin some wrenches to get er there and YES, the next owner was aware that the next 50k was gonna get pricey as the bottom end was spinning really loose. The Evo's proved even more durable than the Shovels due to some top end changes and the Twin Cam's even more so IF the rider/owner knew about the oil pump/Cam Chain Tensioner issues (major crisis if not) and addressed them headon. I have own numerous T.C.'s, built one with a gear drive blower on it and they always left me with good vibes. The key to HD is to realise their limitations in design. If your gonna alter em (building HD's is FUN cause EVERYTHING imaginable in "building needs" is only a click away - also, HD puts out a Performance Parts Book every year - FOR FREE - that has a TON of building stuff in it WITH DYNO GRAPHS showing the builder what to expect - it's lists of cam grinds w/ or w/o valve over lap is to die for), it's best to understand piston speed, RPM limits, have a good idea of where/what your looking for in challenging those speeds and get friendly with Loctite and Torque Wrenches and understand that all gains get charged x2, once up front in time and money and then in loss of how long the engine is going to last - nature of the beast. The better bet, especially for the touring rider IMHO, is to just run em stock (except for tuners to tune for effeciency) and be happy with the 60 to 75 horses you have to work with. Get use to short shifting in the low R torque range and, as a result, shifting a lot. Now for the Yamaha,, yep,, 200k,, no problembo.. Get this Corporal Newkirk,, I know this will cause pause for some folks but in over 1 million miles of riding out 6 1st Gen's (still working on #6 ) I have NEVER set the valve lash. I have had to do a fair amount of "updating" in my time but those were just early model design flaws that had to be done. Truthfully,, I was very hard on my bikes and asked wayyyy to much of them BUT,, they took a licken and kept on ticken. Truthfully,, knowing what I know about them (1st Gens), I have no doubt that by following the factory maintenance schedule and actually being mindful of groan. moans and maintenance needs,, these V-4 touring scoots will/would/should/could see +400k if ridden reasonably. IMHO, another huge secret to getting there is not letting the bike set for long periods of time and keep it away from power washers. THanks for the post Corporal!! Talkin scoots is fun!