cowpuc

Polaris did a very nice job in the detail on the new line. The question has come many times of design "sharing" going on between Victory and Indian lines with Polaris (being both owned by one company). Except for the fairing on the Cheiftain, I honestly could see NONE! Looking at the detail of the bikes and riding them proved to me that the Indian project was a ground up build for Polaris. Detail was awesome, I liked the old school coloring - paint was well done in all colors, chrome appears very high quality in all areas, old school dash on the Vintage and Chief Classic were really neat in appearance - although I did find the amount of chrome in the dash/headlight area created a terrible reflection on the windshield (quick disconnect) if used. I thought the gauges in the fairing on the Chieftain were kinda cheezy BUT the audio system was awesome!! Layout of the bar controls was very well done, I really liked the bars although would find out later that I actually needed 2 inches longer to get comfortable in my "normal" riding position. I personally have always liked the brown leather on the Indians, come to find out the same company that has always made these is still making them!! Leather appeared high quality and detailed nicely. I have always liked spoked wheels and really liked where they went with these. You can also get aluminum wheels, they looked great but I liked the spokes.. While out at Sturgis this year, one of the things that I caught onto at the unveiling was Polaris's marketing campain and the words "Choice is here". When I first saw this slogan at Sturgis I commented to Tippy and said "I wonder how the Victory guys are gonna take that".. I found out later that this really didnt go over very big, the Victory guys were actually insulted by this.. I had a chance before the ride to chat with a Polaris rep about it and was told that the Indian brand they are producing is aimed right at HD buyers. He also told me that their Victory brand was going to become (I guess there are lots of changes coming in the Victory too) their shot at the metric industry.. This conversation gave me, a nobody test rider who does this stuff cause I love motorcycles am nosey and love having a real opinion, a basis of comparison of the bikes I was about to ride. Besides, I knew I would be disappointed if this new line didnt compare to the old Yam Venture molded to my backside . I have owned a number of HD's thru the years, have put a fair amount of time on them - both wrenching and riding. Tippy and I climbed on the Chieftain. Other than the rear peg placement (to high and to far rearward for her) she instantly commented on the Indians seat being more comfortable than the Stock HD Ultra, I totally agreed. I found the bike to be roomier both for legs and arm placement.. The HD has way more room in the rear rider area for moving around - at this time there is NO tour pack on the Indian - it will be interesting to see where/how the tourpac sets when they finally come out.. Tippy and I are unusual in the point of really not liking to be separated when riding. I know LOTS of folks that love the HD's for this but truthfully, we enjoy the old "chopper feel" of - her against a backrest-me against her, the Indian does this nicely. For me - it does lack in handlebar length by about 2 inches and given all that internal wiring and adding cable length l gotta hunch this is not an immediate offering from Polaris. I LOVED the adjustable windshield on the fairing of the Chieftain, it worked perfectly!! Having ridden the new HD Ultra, one of which had a low cut shield AND the upward venting, makes it very difficult to say which I would prefer,, I almost go with the short and venting but ONLY because of the simplicity.. On the same note though, I really wonder what that vent would do in the rain - remember, you gotta keep the vent open to force airflow over the head of the passenger - close it and you lose air flow height... I really like the adjustable shield!! Performance was, again in my opinion, not impressive.. After twisting the throttle from idle to rev limiter on the stock Chieftain all I could say to Tippy was I needed to ride the "Stage One" Classic they had.. I am thinking that if, again I say if, the 111 inch motor produces 119 pounds of torque it HAS to be a crank measurement.. I have never thought much of what HD turns out in their stock bike performances (any of them,, except for the V-Rod) and this Indian is right on par in my opinion - maybe a little more go power.. On the same token though, I remember riding the HD 103 back to back with the HD Screamin Eagle 110 CVO and my seat of the pants told me the 103 was a stronger pull than the 110 - my buddies about scalped me for that so what do I know.. I just gotta a sneakin hunch that compared to the HD 110 - yea the 111 has it, compared to the 103 - could be more interesting.. Compared to my old 83 Yamaha V-4,,,,, oh I wasnt gonna go there... It was a VERY smooth ride!! Tippy said "because it doesnt shake like a HD does that mean less parts are likely to viborate off (something we have experienced first hand)?" to which I replied - yep, locktite company could be in trouble Seriously it was that smooth. Of course, there are droves of people that need that good ol HD shaking front wheel/engine or life aint right - dont buy a new Indian if your one of these folks! I was told that the tranny smoothness was beyond belief - like almost not even noticeable shifting in a spooky kinda way.. I did not find this to be true.. I did find it to a lot less clunky in feel to the HD tranny and very smooth in operation in a precise way but not without "feeling" as I had been told.. I did find all the issues with finding neutral at a stop associated with HD's trannys were never a problem on the Indian. Sixth gear in the indian was very tall and we riders were warned to only engage it at 70 or above.. If you know me you know I had to test that,, because of its torque it handles 45 and above in 6th with two riders - below that, yea,, not good. FLOGGING this thing is a nightmare!! It is very slow in its steering.. I have a hunch the bike is longer, more rake, more trail than the HD line.. It doesnt like to be tossed around, it wants to fight back and go straight or take lazy corners.. I ran it up 90 on an interstate exit to attempt a decent lean and didnt "feel" the agreement happening between me and the bike so I didnt push it.. I have ridden MANY hours on HD Road Kings and have always liked their cornering abilitly, they are really a handling pile of steel... I just didnt get this from the Indian,, smooth - YES, lenier in its power delivery - YES, GREAT BRAKES - YES, stable on the highway - YES, let go of the bars and relax at speed - YOU BET but twisties - not so much.. The stage one on the Classic (its the one in the pics with the single seat and backrest) did help.. Not sure what the gain actually was but it certainly was evident.. All the stage 1 amounts to is pipes.. If you have ever owned an HD and tossed on a set of pipes (man they are choked down terribly) you can relate to the difference in the Indians case - pretty much apples for apples..Dont know why but the Classic and the Vintage rev limited at 4 and the Chieftain at 5. Engines were all the same.. The engine/tranny on the new Indians are one unit, not like the separate units like the old Indians and the Big Twin HD's.. I am sure that this has something to do with the smoothness of the shifting and also the quietness of the motor on the Indian - no compensator and on and on.. The indian also has that 3 cam system which is noticably quieter than HD's twin cam system.. Here is an interesting point, while my wife had no issues with feeling warmth from the engine, I actually kept getting a hot butt/thigh on my LEFT leg from all the bikes.. I did not dig into the reasoning for this but I will say that it was noticeable.. All the bikes came with an oil cooler up front and I LOVED the placement of the screw on oil filter. I am really curious where these bikes are gonna fall in the MPG range.. I know a modern HD 103 Bagger will net you 48 mpg pretty regular,, while I didnt actually check fuel economy on any of these bikes I did ride the Chieftain consecutively out to 111 miles on the speedo and came in with an empty tank according to the fuel guage.. The staff guy said it had to be filled or it would run out on next run.. They hold 5 gallons of gas.. If it had a gallon left in it that calcs out to maybe 30 mpg.. Of course, not being broke in (may get faster after break in too) that will go up but I still am anxious to see where these 111's fall in the MPG thingy.. So, if I it were me laying out the 23 grand for a new touring bike what would it be? HD has a HUGE dealership network, according to Polaris not all of their current Vic dealers are gonna be Indian dealers so I am assuming their "network" is gonna be small. HD (and aftermarket folks) offers more for your money than Indian does in the way of cool gearhead stuff - build it the way you want it, cams, jugs, pistons, heads --- it took HD years to accomplish this. I like the way HD's handle the road, especially the twisties but I honestly think the Indian has a better highway feel, especially for two up (but you gotta remember I have a really weird riding position) - stretched out touring.. I, personally, like what HD has done with watercooling.. I really like the looks of the Indian engine and I also like the big fenders and the spoke wheels and the tank/speedo bib! I would be happy with either Do I think Indian is a threat to HD right now? Nah, not really.. If I were a marketeer for HD I would be more concerned with how their target market is gonna accept watercooling than the Indian attack at this time.. Now if Polaris cut these bikes out at say $18k for the Chieftain, 15 for the Classic and 14 for the Vintage just to get em out into the publics hands for a good proving ground than yea,, that would be a threat but hey, that aint gonna happen.. While we were there testing the new ones a couple guys came in on the Gilroy Indians.. One of these guys had paid 31 for his new back in the day, and his came with an S&S motor.. Victory had major issues in their original 92 inch motors/trannys that really didnt get resolved until 05.. I think some of all that is gonna haunt Polaris in getting the new Indian into real attack position.. Man I love this stuff,, what a riot riding the new bikes, what a great day and age to be test riding new bikes and enjoying our sport!! Best of luck Polaris!! Cowpuc Click here to Reply or Forward

Indeed,, or start it in neutral, get off the bike and push it (or get it rolling some other way) and than drop it in gear... I shift mine all the time with no clutch,,, kinda a left over from the mxing days... May sound crazy but I had a hard time bleeding one of my 1st gen clutch systems years ago and it drove me nuts... I finally ended up laying the bike on its side before I could get all the air out of it..

and then Yammers real problems begin... and probably Skids too... I been thinkn,, I think I got these two figured out,, I gotta say that I think Skid is an enabler to Dans underlying problems - not that I have a clue what they may be..

You know,, I really like the way that this Brian character down there in Texas thinks, kind of a sneaky touch of sarcasm in a Red Green kinda way,,, sort of like a bunch of fellers and gals I met a while back down at Vogel Anyway,, one of these fine days Tippy and I are gonna actually make it down in TX's neck of the woods in an attempt to corrupt,, I mean straighten things out down there - you know, look for space ships at Roswell and go ghost towning and all that.. I think I may have to track Brian down when we are out there just to see if he really exists,, if he does, maybe even get a ride in that air-born side car attached to that Ural..... AND,,,,, I could sure use someone to help me hook up this new intercom system:rotf::rotf:

Dear folks at Yamaha: My friend Mike brings up a very important point here of which I would like to comment. I want you all to know how proud I am of you. You, your engineers, marketing staff and investors have made me one of the happiest motorcyclist in the world today. I have been riding the Yamaha XVZ12 since 1986, have owned 5 of them and ridden just under a million miles on them since that time. My life long experience with the Venture began with an 84 Blonde (a bike my kids named Big Girl or BG (pronounced beeeg) of who's side panels, because of the joy this big ol gorgeous bike brought into our lives, are lovingly used on our current bike.. Being the Royal model, Beeg came from the factory with an original cassette player. Over its hard life on the road this cassette player became part of many years of excitement and fun for my kids and I as we crossed America many many times.. One particular time stands out in my mind as unforgettable.. After a tent camping excursion on the north rim of the Grand Canyon, all the while listening to my favorite Willie Nelson tape on the bikes cassette player, we packed up and headed for Knaub Utah. Tired of listening to the same Willie tape for 3 days (how anyone can ever tire of Willie I dont know) my daughter removed Willie from the cassette and stuck one of her tapes in the deck.. She was just a child and didnt understand the standard procedure of tape removal from any deck, albeit, checking for tape snag.. As we pulled out of our camping area Willie began to unroll himself thru the forest in a fashion very typical of that era of technology. As my daughter and I chatted and rode thru some of the most gorgeous country on the planet we had no idea that willie was being left behind and following us.. As Willie came to the end of his spool and it snapped off, he said goodbye by making a tug across my lower leg as if to say, please dont leave me I wanna be on the road again.. Not being one to leave Willie in the woods, I turned Beeg around and started the process of reeling Willie in.. To this day I am really not sure how many inches/yards/miles of rewind there was from Willie on that morning BUT, I can say it was a long long way!! Willie was stretched across limbs, rocks, stumps, ant hills and on and on.. My Daughter was very impressed with the amount tape there actually was in that little cassette. I was very impressed with how thin some of the sections of the tape had stretched without breaking!!! Of the following Ventures I have owned only one had a Cassette.. It seemed that the original bike had actually broken me of my need for music while traveling on a bike.. Dont feel sorry for me though, I actually look at this as a positive - maybe even a safety feature that you folks were trying to create.. I discovered that while riding a bike it is easier for me to pay attention if I dont have music playing. I also discovered that at highway speeds a person can sing as loud as they want and no one can hear you.. You dont have to have a good voice, you can add or subtract words from the song, you can even take words from a different song and put them into whatever song your singing and no one can hear you - pretty cool... At any rate, the main reason I am writing this is to make suggestions of things for you folks to do at your 50th Cassette Anniversary celebration that I am sure you are having.. Here you go.. 1. Have contestants tie one end of a partially unspooled cassette to a pole and leave the cassette on the bike, see who can stretch the unspooled cassette tape the farthest.. 2. Same process only this time tie the end of the tape from one bike to another. Drive the bikes around the parking lot to form patterns with the unspooled tape. Have different classes of awards for different patterns made (award for most original, most chaotic, hardest to clean up, and on and on). 3. Have grab bags of old cassette tapes (obtainable cheaply at Goodwill stores across america). As I sit here waiting for the new Yamaha Venture, you know, the one with the detuned new Yamaha V-Max motor in it, I can only hope that the lowly cassette player will be part of nostalgia meeting modern day motorcycling.. Your Friend Cowpuc

I never kick a man when he's down,,,, as long as you are not down I can help!!! Come on, spill the beans,, you know you are gonna feel better when you talk about it,, if you post it on the internet we wont tell - and we wont laugh....... I bet he bought a second gen....:rotf::rotf::rotf:

Boy,, some folks will do anything to get their kids to go to school.. I would love to ride that,, load that puppy up with a bunch of my VR buddies - ME DRIVING OF COURSE - and go cruising :rotf: Realistically speaking, we have a Helix that we spend a lot of time on, when we are home.. The Helix has a long wheelbase that makes for some interesting "feelings" when going over road snakes or on wet pavement slides.. We also had a flat tire on it while cruising about 60 and it was a HANDFUL.. I bet that s'cool bus would really be interesting under certain conditions.. Still a cool contraption..

Go get em big guy!! win win WIN!! Take the one with air conditioning

Was reading the other thread about having a Meet-greet-ride thingy and noticed the same posting that Sandman did about Ragtops offer of meeting at a "clubhouse" in Luther for a ride and wanted to follow up on it... Hey Ragtop, any more info on when/where and all that stuff?? Hope I aint steppin on Sandys toes with this,, he wont care - we're buds... This sounds fun!! In another note,,, CycleMoore Campground up in Interlochen is having their end of the year Celebration with FREE camping/food/enterainment during that time period (28th/30th of Sept) http://www.cycle-moore.com/ .. ANyone who has ever been there can testify, the place is AWESOME and some of Michigan finest riding is right there.. The owners, Steve and Shirley, are old school bikers and are awesome people - we really should do this you guys!! If the two rides end up being in the same time frame Tip and I (and I am sure Sandman would echo this) would like to stop on our way up to Interlochen and say HOWDY to Ragtop and any other VR folks cause,,,,, VR folks are great people... Luther aint that far from Interlochen... And now more stuff,,, this weekend Smokin Joes in Caledonia is hosting demo rides on the NEW INDIANS!! As I recall - dates are 13th/15th, Tip and I plan to ride over on the 13th,, anyone wanna meet us there,, ride over,,, what ever... On the 14th (this Saturday) is Sandys HD in Fremont Mi's open house.. This is always a blast,, especially if you like food-looking at new HDs- chatting about bikes and on and on.. DEMOS on the new HDs.. Starts at 9 goes till 3, flag ceremony at noon, food at 1... Tip and I will probably show up around Noonish (I like to sleep in), we plan on making this.. Now here is another interesting one.. Cyclemoore up in Interlochen is also having the "Guzzi Group" up there this weekend... I LOVE old Guzzis and would LOVE to go back up there and visit with these guys... Hmmmmmm,, so many opportunities and soooo little time... Maybe head north from home Saturday, catch Sandys for lunch, head north and see the Guzzi's.... There,,, is everyone confused yet :rotf: You guys do realize that a little chaos in your life is actually a good thing, thank you for allowing me to be the provider Puc

Now thats the way its suppose to work.. It always amazes me the difference in dealerships and their customer service philosophys.. Sounds to me like your dealer actually has some sense of doing whats right - GOOD ON YOU!!!

Easy there big fellow,,, dont over scratch that bald beaner,, ol Pucs working on em,, I got em softened up for ya,, why I wouldnt be surprised that as long as you promise to never say those nasty words about 1st gens being faster ever ever again he lets you back in:225::225::225:

Congrats on the Miata you two:cool10:!!! Had a chance to play with one on a track earlier this year and WOW was that a ball - can you say big peoples go cart and I see plenty of room on there for a tent,,,, I would tour the country in that puppy for sure,,,, top down of course!!!! Puc

Wow,, this is a terrible thing to read about BUT we are so glad you guys are ok and hoping all those bumps and bruises have healed up fine!! Puc and Tip

Notice here folks that being as how I came up with the apology idea that I got an invite and Yammerdan didnt,, see how that works,, all it takes is a little sympathy/empathy and bingo - a friendship is restored.... Of course if Dan wasnt there for me to lock horns with it just wouldnt be right :rotf: Hey Skid, THANKS for the invite!!! Another VR member from Michigan has mentioned a possible ride back down to the Dragon this fall and asked us to ride along, if that were to happen we most definitly will let you guys know we are headed that way. I would LOVE to get some ride time down there with you again!!!! Got a lot going on right now but hey,, you never know.... Puc Oh yea,,,, hey you guys,,, is this the perfect meeting of the minds or what..... all those gears turning made my eyes water.....

Boy I hope we didnt hurt his feelings..... Maybe we should put our heads together :rotf:and come up with an apology

Or,, maybe he is a gear head who finds fulfillment in making thing work again... Or maybe he is both... Either way he sounds like he would be a lot a fun to be around, kinda like a group of folks I met at Vogel this year!!

GOOD FOR YOU!!! As an opinion I might add,, it seems to me that if the manufacture of the pump had intended for those contacts to be cleanable they would have also made them replaceable... I also think that they could save themselves some hassle from unhappy riders, they could have gone back to old school technology and played with fitting that circuitry with a condenser to match their contact points... Of course,,, they wouldnt sell as many pumps once off warranty either... Hey,,, maybe one of us should come up with a set of replace points AND a condenser for these,,,, could be money to be made.... I wonder how many of our folks know they can clean the points in their fuel pump and have them last long enough to get home on??? Is that in the tech section?? Think I will go take a peek when I get a second..

Cool!! I wish someone would take that same animation and put it to an advanced level.. Take a given spec HP and Torque than let you play with cam lift, duration, valve over lap and timing, rod length, pipe scavenging and than let you tune it with a tuner to adjust ignition and injection... We gearheads could really have fun with that!!! Anyway,,, thanks Gary Puc

Truer words have never been spoken!!! Welcome aboard and hang on - Ventures and VR,, an addiction with no antidote.. Puc and yea, those Valks are bad to the bone,,, set of drag pipes and tuned they sound like,,, like a bad to the bone MC...

CONGRATS TO BOTH OF YOU!!!!!! Oh, and I did the "thanks" thingy at the bottom of your post cause your post made me check on when our anniversary is,, its the 12th,, man you saved my butt BIG TIME... Wow, if I would have forgotten that Tippy would have killed me,,, maybe I should take er fishin or something... Puc

I think that question beckens to be answered there Skid,, combining a second gen with a gut full of ice cream into a group that even has (1) first gen,, could be a problem.. Me and Dan - we're just sayin.. GLAD YOU HAD FUN BRO!!! Puc

:cool10:HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO OUR PAL, TO OUR PAL, TO OUR PAL,,,,,, HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO OUR PAL, OUR PAL LEWIS!!! :cool10: GO GET EM BIG GUY!!!! Scott and Cheryl

I was suppose to hook up with Sandman.. Part of the process of hooking up with him was him calling me as soon as he got into town and me finding him and leading him to our home.. When he didnt call I checked the phone and found out that our home phone was out of service to incoming calls, no idea how long it had been that way.. The phone guy came and left a note on the front door that he could find nothing wrong and he had left a message on our voice mail.. Well, the issue was that it wasnt ringing to our house and onto our answering machine, it was going directly to the voice mail supported by our phone company, a service that we never use.. I go out and find that the service box on the outside of the house has a bad connection where the little plastic flipper plugs into the service jack.. I bypass this connection and hard wired the house internals directly to the wires coming into the service box and BINGO - all is well.. Called the service guy back and shyly admit to bypassing their box, he laughed and said no problem as long as I have service and that he would replace the whole box when he has time... So everyones happy,,, until we find out what was on the voice mail that we had missed.. Tippy digs thru our paper work from the company, gets into our voice mail and finds out that the phone has been dead for almost 2 weeks.. It appears that I had WON a 2 night/3 day all expense paid trip to Harleys Anniversary over in Wisconsin - long gone by!!!! Tippy actually broke down and cried!! I just wanted to puke!! The radio station that I had won the trip thru had left 2 messages on it and, I couldnt believe it, they apparently had contacted our local HD shop trying to find me and the local HD shop had also called our home number and left a message for us too!!!!! So, lesson learned is, next time I fill out any of this contests I am putting down ALL my phone numbers, maybe even my neighbors,,,,,, maybe stay home more (nahhh), I am still ticked.... All this technical computer age stuff with hidden voice mails, computer stuff, electronic this and that and on and on is just to complicated for me. Way to much to remember for my ol brain,, I wanna puke... I even miss points ignition.. I wanna puke... Puc

Other side of the state from Tip and I so kinda far away to have been me.. Wait a minute, wait just one minute here,,, maybe Tippy is dressing up like a military person and sneeking off for a ride on the bike without me... Hmmmmm

Congrats Monty, NICE MAN CAVE!!!! I too spun wrenches out in the back yard for years,, I bet I lost a ton of parts in the weeds,,, your gonna LOVE it buddy!! Shoot,, even a dirt floor with some old carpet on it is way better than a grass front yard... PLUS,,, you will have a whole new bunch of buddies - wanting to make an oil stain on that new floor,, its a guy thang.. An old management rule of thumb is "its not a plan till its on paper".. Might not be a bad idea to take a few minutes and lay out a future floor plan before you pour,, just dream.. Water lines, Conduit, Airlines, floor drains (like already mentioned) are fairly cheap to stub in for future use.. Also, some form of rerod/screen is not a bad idea.. Any way,,, congrats!! Oh yea,,, mind if I borrow a couple feet of floor space to change the oil on my bike next time we come thru:rotf: Puc:bluesbrother: