cowpuc

Yep,, those "lil 650's" were sleepers if there ever was one - THAT is a FACT!! 4 gear wheelies allll day long.. Had a friend with one who would put a whoopin on my Low Rider at any time - half the cubes and LOOK OUT MAMA - HERE COMES JIMMY ON HIS KZ!! Now Ty,, if we was yakkin H2 Kawi - or even the little 500 H1 - then we'ld have a debate happening... Good night those ol Widow Makers were ferocious beasts... Speakin of giant killers,, remember the teany little RD350? Learn the power band on one of those sweet hearts and BYE BYE Triumps, Beezers, Sportys and other scoots 3x its size.... I still dont think they outlawed em cause of emissions,,, the lil fellers stepped on wayyy to many toes maybe The guy who owned our local Yamaha shop used to spoon on a Chen Sheng knobby on his RD and go play in the woods with it.. In the sand his pipes became like skiies and WOW could he scoot the dunes!!! What a life!!

Rock n roll brother = think what I'll do is make a copy of this thread and go down the list lookin for answers.. THAT is a REALLY good question Sky!!!

Nothing is more fun than looking for a lost hat in the middle of the night in the middle of Wyoming!! YES - WE FOUND IT!!

Treasure hunting in the great State of Wyoming!! You see that Tip??? It was Orange n Black I tell ya!!! WAYYYY WORTH THE TURN AROUND!!!

After God made the Black Hills, He looked down and said - now that I have made the PERFECT place to place my most beautiful piece of terrain I will place it herein, He then placed the Needles Hwy within His treasure chest for all to behold!!

When we made our yearly CTFW to the Sturgis Rally in '15 we made a video of the bikes all backed up and waiting to get into Keystone SD.. In this lil vid we revisit the same G Side note,, the sounds and smells of this area are INTOXICATING!!

One of the really great things about CTFW across this giant country of ours is getting to meet real deal touring motorcyclist in real deal touring settings!! HI STEVE FROM OREGON!! Nice meeting you my friend!! After sharing one of my favorite rides (Skagg Creek Rd from Stewards Point on "1" over to Calistoga California - Steve told Tip and I about a ride that we simply MUST make someday - YA GOTTA RIDE 36 FROM RED BLUFF TO 101 Steve says!! Count on it brother,, someday it WILL happen!!

They certainly didnt cut their bikin teeth on the early Elsinore's, YZ's or Suki TM's I tell ya Ty,,,, brrrrrrrRAAPPPP:missingtooth:

Ya know what Rot,, cha may be onto something here.. I just ordered my 3rd Shinko 230 for the season.. All went really really well with the first two = also 230's.. I was suggested that I try 777HD's to increase my mileage - I run heavy on hot tarmac - used to getting 5k max out of rear.. Was in the process of ordering the 777's when I noticed the non-typical tread pattern of those tires.. Not long ago I wore out a set of Avon Venoms that had a similar non typical tread pattern and they displayed some similar charachteristics as those you describe.. The looks of the tread pattern on the tire (and what they left on dirt) was kinda cool but they just did not have the proper feel to them IMHO.. As they wore, they got worse.. Talk about spooky on road snakes!! I examined those tires very carefully upon removal and also noticed an odd wear pattern - little more wear where there was less distance between the tread cuts.. I decided to go back to the 230's instead of trying the 777's partially because of what I saw there.. Now that I have read what you wrote, I think I will wait even longer before trying the 777's in a long distance tour.. If I do get a chance to pick one up locally here for cheap cheap (under 50 bucks) I will test it and see if I get the same results as you.. Thanks for your reply to this old thread!! Puc

Just ordered my 3rd one of that exact tire for my 83,,, LOTS of really fun miles sitting right there I tell ya!! Yep,, the R stands for Rear.. The bars on a 1st Gen are .875 thou in diameter or 7/8th of an inch.. They have 7/8th bars.. Buying grips?

I have a hunch that you are probably correct on this assumption Sky BUT,, with video documentation running - I plan to ask them to then show me how the GPS that directs you around all traffic jams, including natural and unnatural works so you never get caught in traffic and I am also going inquire into how exactly the special licensing works that allows a person to utilize the "Authorized Vehicles Only" turn arounds on the interstates that one would have use in the event that an accident happened somewhere before the GPS could plan the riders escape to avoid getting caught in the same... I know one thing,, Tip/Tweeks and I were down riding the Dragon with a buddy and his wife on their Harley a couple years ago and we all got caught up in a big traffic jam - came out of no where.. It wasnt all that warm - maybe 100.. Even with the rear cylinder shut down - My friends wife was getting burned so bad we had to pull off and wait for traffic to clear before proceeding.

Dont care much for moving my own self - GOOD ON YA BROTHER FOR HELPING DA KID!! I'd have done it too - family first and all that!! Got that load info from the PDF posted earlier in the thread.. Tire I was looking at was http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shinko-777-HD-Rear-Motorcycle-Tires-140-90-16-/222402604645?epid=214767670&hash=item33c83a6e65:g:qE4AAOSwTglYmo~k&vxp=mtr with a part number of 4596... Yahhh,, I feel EXACTLY the same way about the balancing beads,, wouldnt even think of trusting em cause I been successfully balancing my own for years BUT I gotta buddy who SWEARS by these bead things.. Cost me 15 bucks for 10 ounces of the goofy things - gonna dump in the required 2 oz's into this new Shink thats comin and if this turns into snake oil - gonna go down to my buddies house and release the rest of those little ceramic gritters onto his Harley Only parking garage floor and watch em spread out like snake oil down yonder ,,,, what are friends for ... Nahhh,, he's a really good fellow gear head who is a BLAST to hang out with!! Will let cha know how it all pans...

:big-grin-emoticon::big-grin-emoticon:,, sorry bro,, I'm a little sensitive when it comes to my v-4's :big-grin-emoticon: In all honesty,, they aint gonna figure it out DanL' - seriously,,, that ol saying about "you can drag a horse to water but cha can't make em drink" is another one Ya wanna know what I really think (keep in mind,, I might be wrong about this - hoping I am actually,,, truly hoping that someone actually figured out some new way to eliminate the need for water cooling, a way to actually make that slim in stance V-Twin air cooled big twin motor perform reliably and with temps cool enough that a person can sit in California traffic backups for hours on end and his wife can lay her leg against the top end and never even wince - if thats the case - I WILL be the first one to admit I was wrong and that Mom Yam did in fact = turn the touring world upside down!!!)? I think the actual touring world (that Honda owns with their Wing) as we old schoolers know it is such a small market that competing in it is pointless.. The BIG market = the one that Harley owns is a completely different market that has very little, if anything, to do with "touring".. I honestly think that Mom Yam basically miss-spoke herself when she said = "we are going to turn the touring world upside down".. She should have said = "we are going to turn the Harley and Harley clone world upside down". I recently read somewhere that the REAL message that the unveiling sent to the touring world was that "the folks at Honda breathed a sigh of relief and everyone went back to work on the Wings with a smile on their face - no competition here".. THAT statement encompassed everything I have been trying to put into words..

What darkside replaces the 140/90-16? Would LOVE to try one!! ABSOPOSITIVELYUNDENIABLY NO PROBLEMBO BROTHER!! Got all the info I needed from this group of lop eared gear headed varmints,, as always,, someones always covering someones back around here:big-grin-emoticon: Thanks for jumping here though my friend!! Hey David,, long as I done got your attention,, I decided to just go back to the 230 for this next round.. Looking carefully at the tread pattern (yea,, I know,,, getting wayyy to picky in my old narly age) on the 777's, reminded me of the abnormal, non consistent tread pattern on a set of Avon Venoms I not to long ago wore off.. That off beat pattern ended up wearing funny at the end of tire life and got strangely noisy and viberaty at the end.. You ever notice how these 230's dont even have the typical roughness in ride that cha might get out of other tires as they square off and you corner with em? Well,, that Avon had something similar to that happening but it was more pronounced in an odd way - I am convinced after removing and examining the tire that this was totally due to the inconsistent tread pattern.. I also checked the PDF posted for that HD and according to that - the load limit was less then on the 230 - may or may not have been a typo in the PDF but, due to the tread pattern I didnt care for - I just went back and ordered another cheaper 230.. THANK YOU again for turning me on to the 230's and giving the on them - DEFINITELY a worthy piece brother!! I BEAT the living day lights,, I mean I sort of mistreated this last one on the way home from California with some REAL off roading AND some of that real sharp fresh tar n chip HOT tarmac for MILES across Nevada out running some Oil Well fires out there - HIGH SPEED stuff included.. Was expecting for it to have been down to the bone as we pulled in with just under 4600 miles BUT - NO WAY - tire looked GREAT = no slicey - no dicey!! May try some ceramic beads on this next one I just ordered from Chaparall off ebay for another 76 bucks.. Got the beads already - may as well pull the weights and give em a fair shot.. What say you? You get some riding in in Phoenix? Go up to Jerome?? Holding out on the pics? Ya better not be ya lop eared hot weather born on the sun varmint:225:

If Tip, Tweeks and I are able to make Sturgis this year (currently lookin pretty good for it to happen) - I am planning to take my infra red thermometer along and my video camera (of course).. Understanding that the new Ventures are going to be available there for demo and, hoping the temps are above the 100 mark like they were when we came thru there a week ago I am going to ask one of the factory demo guys to leave the new Venture idling in the parking lot next to Tweeks = simulating two touring bikes stuck in traffic in a high temp zone.. Then I will take temps with my infra red from Tweeks side panels and the new ones exposed engine closes to where the riders legs would be and see if there is any big difference thereof.. I will try and make this as fair as possible in an effort to once and for all (at least in my mind) solve the question as to whether or not heat is going to be a problem for folks actually wanting to use these new machines in a full touring capacity.. I will also tale video of the under side of the rear fender as I think I remember someone asking for info pertaining to hooking up a trailer hitch.. After calming down some since the unveiling, I am actually looking forward to test riding these new ones.. If possible, I/we will do some "pulls" in different gears on different locations while recording and then come back with Tweeks and do the same pulls to try and get some perspective of performance differences between the 119 inch twin and the lowly 74 inch v-4 - could be a TON of fun!!!! Anyone have any other request they have for us (or any one else that might be getting to rub shoulder with one of these new scoots) in the form of doable research?

PSYCHO DAD TURNED SUPER MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::big-grin-emoticon::big-grin-emoticon::dancefool::dancefool::dancefool: I LOVE IT!!!!!!! :dancefool::dancefool: Hey Bob,, lets meet at The Rally on August 6th in the Yamaha Shop parking lot a noon where I will follow you taking pictures/video of you riding down main street with said outfit in all its glory.. Skeered? If so,,,,, I will RENT that suit from you for 10 bucks (thats x5 what you paid for it = BIG MONEY!!) - put it on and go riding down main street standing on Tweeks pegs = Tip can sit on the back and hold the cape up like I am flying!! THAT is an AWESOME find right there I tell ya,, JUST AWESOME!!!:superman::superman::superman::superman: Who's the man in the Superman suite,,,, laughing while he rides his scoot,,,,,, who'll make a Sturgis like we had,,,,,, Psycho Dad,, Psycho Daad!!

Looking GREAT there sister!!!! You two drifters are obviously having a blast out there!! Tip, Tweeks and I were just there too, albeit - under different circumstances than that of your own = having Quickstep as a better half has its advantages = he wont get cha lost like Tips better half!! Our journey to Crazy Horse started out with me n Tweeks attempting to show Tip the back way into to the eye of the needle up on Needles Hwy.. When we came to the pay booth at Sylvan Lake I and told Tip,, this is NOT right,,, turned around to find out where I went wrong - next thing ya know we are at the Crazy Horse Monuments.. Oh well,,, at least we got to see what our Aussie friends got to see .. Glad you two are enjoying your stay and all is well Annie.. We made it in safely (WOW did I tan out on this one - it was HOT and, you guys know me - +100 means - a shirt) - getting ready to head back out toward the Monument in search of many Harley.. May head over for a redo on the "Flaming Gorge" ride.. If you folks have time I might suggest it.. Follow the 191 route if you do - it is AMAZING - we had to double back some because of fires down at the Colorado line BUT that should be well undercontrol now.. Another route we were told about by a Wyoming hunter who caught us sleeping in their Shooting Range shack (long story = bad mountain storms scare me and I hate sleeping in a wet sleeping bag) that we did recently was 150 from Evanston Wyoming to Provo = YELLOWSTONE EAT YOUR HEART OUT!!!! It is UNREAL Annie and NO tourist trap stuff - even have moose and bear!! There ya did it,, you two with your GORGEOUS pictures got my spring all twisted up again.. Sorry about the :hijacked: Annie,, SOOOO glad you folks are doing well and enjoying your drift out there!! Stay safe,, tell Al hey for me, Tip sends her love and Tweeks says THANKS AGAIN for the Aussie Stickers = she LOVES em and they get asked about = A LOT!! Your ol buddy Puc

Yep,, there has forever been the old saying of "there is no replacement for displacement",, just like in this discussion - around my neighborhood (I live in big twin country here) we sit and debate the truth to that statement endlessly, with me - as it has been for years - being the stand alone adversary taking the other side of the argument that simply states = yea,, until you factor in technology.. One of my favorite counter statements has always been = "the bigger they are the harder they fall".. Fact is,, the air cooled Big Twin "knife/fork" single pin crank push rod engine design of the early 1900's has its limitations just because of its design AND all the clones thereof including ALL and ANY of todays V-Twin motors (water cooled included) also have their failings because of those same design limitations.. YES - attempts have been made - like the offset cylinder dual pin crank and the side by side rods to get away from the trade design patents that The Motor Company has on the 45 degree - knife and fork rod design (you didnt REALLY think everyone did that because it would produce a better motor did you? Fact is, Big Twin buyers would rather have a motor that is destined to fail but "sounds" great than they would move on to effeciency in engine design = sales world wide PROVE this point). Polaris even went to extremes with a copy cat design in their Victory line that moved away from the archiac push rod design and moved the V-Twin into the much more effecient and durable overhead cam design PLUS they jacketed their jugs with oil cooling jackets - AMAZING in itself.. Problem was - the design was butt ugly with the result being a V-Twin engine that looked more like an air compressor motor than the Harley motor they were trying to copy cat and the whole thing flopped like a fish dying on dry land - proving once again that its not about torque, go power, durability or any thing logical = its TOTALLY about looks and sounds when it comes to motorcycles and v-twins. Here are some facts,, currently sitting in my garage is a tiny motored (by todays standards" = a 60 inch motor is TINY) R1 Yamaha.. Its little inline 5 valve 4 cylinder motor will propel a 220 pound rider to 105 mph in first gear quicker then you can close the throttle to keep you from going over backwards in the process of getting there - frankly,, it is STUPID fast... The 1700cc "Motus" has been mentioned in the thread. My Big Twin buddies keep trying to throw this marvelous machine into my face when discussing the R1 too.. They recently proclaimed the Motus to be the fastest production motorcycle in the world BUT - when asked if any of them had read the fine print on that claim NONE of them would conceed that they had.. Had they read the fine print they would have noticed the words = "FASTEST DOMESTIC MOTORCYCLE" with a top speed of 163 mph. One only has to own the little no name putzy 60inch 1000cc 5 valve Yamaha with its 4 tiny little 2 and 3/4 inch pistons for a very short time to realize that the big motored super bike Motus's flat out top speed can easily be tanked by the R1 - and in 5th gear (leaving the R1 rider a whole nuther gear to play with if he dares.. "no replacement for displacement" and massive torque is king = BUNK. Recently, while out trying to prove to my buddy with his 117 inch built Harley (that I helped him build) that even from 0 to 50 the little putzy under motored Yamaha would have his big twin massive torque producing Harley for lunch and after proving my point, my friend shakingly said = its still not as fast as I thought it would be:big-grin-emoticon: (I was only 1/2 a block in front of him at the end of my 1st gear).. I tried to explain to him that, unlike todays "modern" v-twins = the lil Yammy had to be handled very carefully when in the lower 4 gears because if you didnt cautiously work your way up thru the rpm range the bike would vicisouly and without noticed - flip over and pound your face into the pavement.. My buddy looked at me suspicially and said he thought it sounded like my clutch was slipping.. I told him that sound was me working my up to speed by feeding the little under torqued tiny motor just enough throttle to eat his lunch while keeping the front end down and thereby keep from becoming ground meat myself. He still didnt believe me and I invited him to switch bikes with me and for him to wick the throttle open on the teeny 1000cc R1 in first gear himself - an invitation to which he declined.. Fact is folks,,,,, there REALLY some solid truth to all this yak about torque and anyone who has been around engines at all KNOWS it.. When it comes to pulling stumps, rail road cars, turning soil over in a field or dragging cars out of ditches then yea,, torque is king!! Problem is,, in all my days of riding scoots - be it clearing 150 jumps on a motocross track, hanging a rear tire out on the ice, tooling down the highway with Tip on the back and a couple hundred pounds of gear on Tweeks back running 85+ all day long in tempts well above 100 degrees "F" - I aint never ever found the need to attach a field disc to the back of any of my scoots or attempt to pull rail car or even drag a car out of a ditch... Sooo,, whats all this got to do with the little Yamaha v-4 in our Ventures... Well,,, I purposely defaulted to the even smaller engine in my R1 to prove a point.. Fact is,, it would pay each of us to remember that Mom Yam DETUNED these teeny little 74 inch engines when they dropped them in our Touring bikes.. I also owned one of the, if not THE most amazing muscle bikes of all times = the little modern day Harley V-Rod slaying 74 inch V-Max and can totally attest to the fact that - even though these true Ventures have been ripped of their v-boost, cam profiles, valve diameters, timing advance and high compression pistons - they have ALL the torque and plently of Horse Power they need to put to shame any of the STOCK modern day V-Twins being mass produced at this time. I recently had a real nice discussion with one of SnS's (YES = THE SnS) retired engineers while at a big Rally.. He was telling me that the little Yamaha V-4 was actually their benchmark for performance in designing Big Twins - something that in all of his years with the company - they never were able to get there because,, get this,, Big Twin design and modern technology are extremely hard to blend.. Advancements = YES (some of you folks may remember the days of yesteryear when just metalurgy alone lacked so much that Aluminum in cases was so porus that oil would leak right thru the cases and the stuff was so soft you could actually make a mark in the outer cases with YOUR FINGER NAIL - no joke!!) - bringing those air cooled Big Twins of yesterday up to the performance of and relialbility of todays modern day engine standards while maintaining the sound/feel/smell/engine noise/oil leaking/high maintenance needs/ vibrating/heat producing ways of a time long gone by while in the process is just not possible.. Bottom line,, was I SHOCKED to here the sound of a V-Twin eminate from the bikes that were soon to be proclaimed at Americade as the new Venture that Mom Yam had proclaimed was gonna turn the touring world upside down - NO DOUBT - I was SHOCKED! I was picturing a twin turboed (massive torque producing 1st stage - massive hp producing 2nd) v-4 modern day fixed fairing tourer that was so covered that even the hardest of cross winds in states like Wyoming or Utah could NEVER burn my lovely wives legs from motor heat being blown across them AND able to pull a car out of ditch if I needed to).. I stood in amazement as the Star Riders who had supposively given Mom Yam the advice on what to build in the new Venture applauded the new machines massive torque producing air cooled Harley look alike V-twin push rod motor and asked myself,,, who are these people and what,, if anything,, do they know about touring on a motorcycle that I dont know??? After calming down (it took some time) and getting to read the responses both on our site here and on many other web pages,, I have come to realize that, IMHO,, everything really has changed in the touring world and that quite possibly, the cruiser world with all its bar hoppin, short distance riding, trailering em in instead of riding them has grown to include the touring bike designs. Hmmmm,,, makes me love that nasty ol sticker covered shaft drive low torque 74 inch V-4 all the more..

and then after breakfast a ride back to get the full scoop on the Missile Silo!!

Expending all that energy figuring out that the gate that kept me from playing with the Minute Man Nuclear Missile was locked and wouldnt magically open for another hour I heard my tummy growl and KNEW it was time for = ROAD GRUB!!!

While sitting on the side of the road filling our water cup from our trusty water bucket that hangs on Tweeks side a friendly chap stopped to see if we were ok.. After telling him we were fine and thanking him for checking on us, asked if we were headed to that abandoned Missile site while pointing yonder.. I looked at Tip and then back at the gentlemen and said "we were not but we are now" and away we went - off on yet another adventure!!

why thank ya Kretzy and being one of those scallywags should help explain why I have such a hard time listening when folks tell me I aint suppose to coast with my motor off - I just go ahead and do anyway ,,,,, ya know what,, maybe that particular flaw in my charachter is where the really bad egg part adjoins itself to the scallywaggin Speakn of coastin,, at this time Kings Canyon holds the record for us = 29 miles in 36 minutes!!! I been coaster all my life but that one was WOWZY = AMAZING!! Another really good one is on the Cherokee end of the Blue Ridge Parkway = start up at the visitor center up on the mountain before you get to Cherokee - ya gotta run a stop sign (scallywag) but I tell ya - if traffics light and ya get nailed - you can coast a longgggggg ways there... Jerome Az is another.... Hey ya lop eared pot stirring varmint - ya got me goin on purpose didnt cha!! and PS,,, yes,, I got whopped = A LOT - when I was but a young scallywag

Gotta spoon another tire before,, Lord willing and the creek over at Orlins that stands betweens us and Minnesota dont rise, hitting the trail to Sturgis.. I REALLY like these Shinko 230's that @videoarizona turned us all onto = great tires and I just wore out my second one.. Started the season back in June with a new Kenda pre-Americade and now having thoughts of testing out one of the Shinko 777's as also mentioned by Vaz just for giggles.. Just jumped on Ebay,, as with the 230's I purchased on there = no load rating stated.. The 230's are 77 rated and speed rated to to 149 (V). I noticed the 777's have the lower speed rating of 130 mph (H) as most of the tires for our 1st Gens are.. Not a problem at all except I am wondering if they have lower load rating too? Anyone spooned on the 777 yet,, David? Thanks ya bunch a lop eared varmints - in advance.. Puc Here's what I am seeing http://www.ebay.com/itm/140-90-16-4-Ply-Shinko-777-Rear-Tire-/371607213645?epid=214767670&hash=item568584164d:g:p0MAAOSwYIxX2dNd&vxp=mtr

WOWZY WOW WOW WOW,, you done got blessed brother = THAT coulda been really nasty!!! Thank the Lord you folks and others on the roadway are ok!! AMAZING how little damage your rig suffered too brother!! If you happen to discover that you need to scrub the seat of your Miata, I happen to know from similar experiences that Fabreez works pretty dog gone good as a scrub assistant Rand!

BEAUTIFUL RICK = MAJOR CONGRATS!!! Looking at it reminds me of a question I had for any of you trailer haulers out there.. I am NO bike pulling a trailer guy, as a matter of fact - I just recently had the opportunity to pull the 2nd trailer behind a motorcycle I have ever pulled. A friend was having issues with his scoot and he asked me to take it for a short ride with trailer in tow and give my thoughts on his issues.. I did so.. After discussing the issues he was asking about, I asked him one pertaining to trailer towing with a scoot.. His was loaded with probably 100 pounds of gear - was a utility type of trailer similar to yours. Just to see what would happen I slammed on the brakes hard in a corner to see if I could feel trailer push upon doing so - WOWZY = did I!! Upon a quick check when I got back I noticed no trailer brakes... He said its normal to run with no brakes on the trailer.. Is this so?