cowpuc

Ok,, I just gotta say it.. I did some electronics classes back a few years when I was in High School.. Learned a bunch of Ohm's Law stuff way back then,, even played with circuit boards a little and device wiring and motor building.. Basically, forgotten wayyyy more than I will ever remember = things like reading those little colored stripes on resistors and all that.. Found my achelies heal to be my ceiling limit in math (College Algebra = YIKES).. All that said,, yes,, I have used some of what I learned thru the years but most of what I do electronically is a disastor waiting to happen.. Have made it this far though.. Anyway,, @bongobobny - what you wrote above about turning the Meter over to AC and checking for AC voltage at the battery would have made me spit coffee on my computer screen if I were a coffee drinker = brilliant,, just BRILLIANT.. Tested a LOT of systems on those battery cables throughout my life but never,, have I EVER heard or thought of that one!! Only thing is now ya got me cause I spent my whole life NOT doing this remarkable method for testing rectifiers,,, THANK YOU Sir Bob = YOU DA MAN BROTHER!! :bowdown:

You betcha,, you are more than welcome!! Might wanna double check this thread again before you go to spinnin wrenches on er tomorrow,, got a few guru's on here that have forgotten more than I know about this stuff - maybe one of em will chime in with some advice that we can both learn from by then.. If not,, give er a shot and let me know how ya come out.. Puc

At this point in my life I actually enjoy sittin around watching other people work on their bikes and,, when asked,, joining in the fun.. This is sorta kinda becoming when of my favorite old age pass times.. I dont normally offer opinion while watching though unless its with someone who I know can handle advice - I LOVE helping my buddies and offering advice though cause deep in my heart I sorta enjoy with my friends - not sure but might be one of those early stages of Grumpy Old Men syndrome. Anyway, If I would have been there watching this guy and he was one of my buddys I probably would have suggested some simple things like never touching the face of the pads, wiping off the rotor real well with break cleaner after completion, swapping out the fluid when swapping on new pads, running the pistons out and cleaning em real well before pressing em back in (those were pretty nasty pistons,, personally I never cared much for having a caliper hang up and then smelling those pads while they turn the rotor red just before the wheel locks up), using an old brake pad to push the pistons in (never had need for the pressure a clamp like that applies BUT = to each his own)... I am sure I missed some stuff cause I only grazed thru it but yea Duey,, gotta agree,, that was kinda sort disconcerting to watch cause good brakes can kinda sorta be important at times,, not always but sometimes:biker: Good find Duey

Here ya go Blood!! Take a peek at this! Sometimes,, not always but sometimes,, I am easier to follow when I video stuff than when I write stuff.. Hope this is one of those times!! Puc

There are also carb vents in there that gotta remain open IMHO.. Those carbs get warm from sitting between the jugs, and it is possible for them to produce enough internal pressure to cause some strange things like your talking about.. Not speaking of drains and over flows,, speaking of vents.. Make sense?

I know this will sound strange but you gotta reach up on er neck and bleed off the proportioning valve up there as its it high spot in the system IMHO.. Not really a bad job,, just a matter of cracking the line at the valve, pressing down on the peddle and closing it off.. You might wanna hang around till one of our 1st Gen guru's speak to your situation but until then - if it were mine - I would do what I suggested above while I was waiting to hear back from others - never ever know,, might just be the solution!! You need a short video pointing out that which I speak of?

That's right,, me n Joe = we KNOW = even if ya do have a two piece, custom made pool que!!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4qUXcXuMSE

,,, looking at the front end diabolical grin on that thing (sort of resembles a new Venture IMHO) I think it just wreaks of "I got your turning the touring world upside down right here baby" happening.. Be interesting to see some engine specs!! Cant wait to see if those Honda fellers decided to with Beemer and put some real umphhh into the competitive touring market with this one.. WOWZY is that purdy!! Will DEFINITLY be lookin for a demo opportunity if it presents itself!!! THANKS FOR THE INFO JOE!!!! You da man ya hippy!!! Heyyy,, wait a minute,, you gotta 1800 Wing dont cha Joe?? I never ever even did get to get my grubby lil fingers on one of those yet. How does it compare to your 2nd Gen power wise and handling wise? Lets talk scoots you ol Navy man you!!

As goofy as this may sound, 2 of my Voyagers made a lot of what could have been construed as tranny noise too. I tinkered with scoots a lot back then (I know, its a flaw in my character) and, thru my tinkering I found out the Kawi put adjustable balance shafts in those sweethearts.. Going by memory,, down on the right side of the motor - about where the oil site glass is at on our Ventures are two shafts sticking out on the Voyager. If the motor/tranny sounds whiny (sounds just like tranny whine) or clunkin at between shifts you can dial the noise right out of em by adjusting those shafts.. When I sold mine they were as quiet and easy shifting as any goldwing I ever owned (I never did get to ride the 1800 though - hope to some day.. By the way,, they made those Voyagers from 86ish (when they replaced the 6 cylinder 1300) all the way up into the 2000's.. All essential parts (other then cosmetics) are still readily available.. I still see em for sale around here, even saw a trade in that a dealership had taken in a few weeks ago - they are out there..

Just thinkin,, another thing you could do is disconnect the input line at the pump. Pressurize the tank by blowing in the vent and see what kind of flow you get thru the petcock and tank? Maybe ya got a small blockage upstream from the pump.. You can pull the seat, pull the sending unit out and look in the tank very easily if ya need to.. I dropped a small wadded up paper bag in my fill tube one time on the road and used that opening to fish it out.. Be crazy if something fell into yours and it found its way to plug off the tank output.. Sounds like an adventure that would happen to your truly

IMHO, while it is possible you do indeed have a fuel issue, something else popped into my pea brain when I read your post Spence. When was the last time you checked your carb diaphrams? The reason I ask is if 1 or 2 or even three of puppys have a whole or two in them the scoot can act just as your speaking in my experience. I am far from a guru on these things like many around here but I theorize that with a hole in a diaphram, the slide is not being pulled into its normal opening position resulting in the metering rod not being slid out of the main resulting in less fuel being drawn in. Make sense? Probably not but personally, I would still check those diaphrams and redo the sync when I patched em up. On another note, I really do not think in normal operation that the fuel filter needs to appear full - just because it has an air bubble in it does not mean your scoot isnt getting ample fuel supply (again, not one of our guru's here but I got fooled by that trick before, replaced parts I didnt have to on a snowmobile when I was a kid) - thinking the best way to check the pump is to pull the output and see if she;s spurtin fuel. These are not injected motors so I am thinking even 3 pounds of pressure at output. I do know from experience that, in a bad situation a person can pull the vent hose on the the tank and put pressure in the tank by blowing in the vent with your mouth and maintain enough pressure on the tank to fill the carbs and get out of the mountains.. I know,, sounds like a corny idea but worked for me once and I know I cant push no more then a couple pounds of air with my lungs.. I know LOTS of folks here have had pump issues but honestly, in wearing out 5 of these 1st gens and doing an average of 225k miles on each of those I can count on one hand = twice = that I had a fuel pump issue.. Both of those were points related (making the pump actually die and make no clickin noise. Unlike a lot of folks, I have found these pumps to be very very durable and would be extremely intriqued to hear about a pump failure outside of the points if thats what your problem ends up being. Holes in diaphrams = completely other way around!! I have patched more diaphrams then there are Hot Dogs at a Pucs MGnEM!!! Puc

Obvioiusly aimed right at another one of Harley's segments = the Sporty!! Only this one's doin it right by instead of going toe to toe $$ wise = about 1/2 the price and WOWZY is this sharp IMHO!! It's 4 valve air cooled motor just screams = lets go flat trackin to me!! Good lookin scoot Mom Yam!! P.S. = love the piggy backs!! http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-SCR950-/263219489514?hash=item3d491aaaea:g:t9UAAOSwhlZZwqNX&vxp=mtr

INDEED and right back at cha Syd!! Your welcome and thanks for following along!! Good point about the getting ugly part as there was only one ugly one in that whole conversation and it sure wasnt me,, I'm the good lookin one who always wins the huggin contest when there is a VR Rally that women show up to:256: = !! CAMP FIRES, HOT DOGS, S'MORES,, oh no,,,,, Camp Fires, Hot Dogs, S'Mores,, oh my,,,,,,,,, we're off to see that White Washer, the Wonderful Wisconsin Wiz,, we hear his blood is cold like ice no matter what season it is.. Nothing,, shy of nothin would make me more than doing exactly that Fool!! We gotta get the likes of BigLenny involved too though cause he and I still have an unsettled debate over this new Venture that, because of unforeseen obstacles we had to cease.. A genuine foot warmin, hot dog toasting, s'more eating extravaganza would solve a lot of questions I am sure.. Matter of fact,, and again - this is just another one of my flawed character theories = I think if there were more hot dog cook outs with folks feet propped up debating the issues of the day that there would be less and more in the world.. Hot Dogs for everyone - that's what I always say!!! **** Watch @stanG right at .11!! I never laughed so hard in my life!! LOL = what a riot!!

1st off,, hi Pix = Puc here = glad you found us and :welcome1:to VR!! Next up,, I get long winded sometimes - its a fact. That said,, if ya find yourself falling asleep and need to move on to a more non-boring post = dont feel bad,, happens alot I have been an avid 1st Gen Venture rider since 87 and am currently wearing out my 6th one,, fairly easy to understand that am pro Yamaha.. Other side of that coin is the fact that I also owned and operated a bike dealership for many years and thru that experience - got to ride many many different scoots.. One of the things I learned (my opinion) by spending a fair amount of touring time also on Harleys and other "Bat Wing" fairing scoots is that the additional weight of a fairing, especially a Bat Wing loaded with goodies, does tend to require more upper body muscle input in many touring situations than does a fix fairing.. It is my opinion that that is what a lot of riders are feeling when complaining about Top Heavyness = just a theory on my part.. Goes without saying,, I LOVE my fixed fairing when it comes to all out touring = covering 800 + miles a day with passenger and camp gear strapped on.. A number of years ago now (I am now retired), I redid a few Kawasaki Voyager 2's for resale.. When I finished my first one my wife and I took it out for a week of tour and were VERY impressed with the quality of the machine. Another very interesting thing was it's average MPG was well above 50. My wife LOVED that passenger seating/comforts and consistently let me know that, in her opinion - it was very close to the 1st Gen Ventures that we now have covered over a million miles on - tell ya what = what she was saying was straight from the hip and very impressive because as far as touring comfort - these 1st Gen Yam's are UNBEATABLE for two up comfort (IMHO). If it would not have been for one very important thing,, I would probably be riding a Kawasaki Voyager 2 to this day.. I am 6 foot with 34 inseam and the seat height was just to short for me.. The foot peg distances (ergo's) were way to tight for my long legs.. On my third Voyager I even took the time to dismantle the foot peg assemblies and do some fabbing to increase the leg room on the pegs.. It worked fine but the problem was - I lost so much ground clearance that any form of aggressive riding (which I LOVE) was 100% not possible.. My forth one was a barn find that had been sitting for many many years. I picked it up for 400 bucks. It had been stored in a garage where semi tractors were being worked on and was covered in soot. Thankfully so too cause what looked like a disaster was actually a very very well preserved, extremely clean Voyager under that black cosmoline that protected the bike fully.. After going thru the carbs and adjusting balance shafts (really neat idea Kawi had there), it was sell time.. About that time a really good friend of mine who has much shorter inseam than my own brought his brand new Ultra Limited by for me to test ride.. He fell on it when turning into our driveway and we had a long discussion about the weight of the bat wing causing problems, especially for shorter folks when slow riding/stopping.. I told him to jump on the Kawi (the 1st Gens are way to tall for shorter folks like my buddie).. He sat on the bike, took off and I watched him as he flat footed the thing at the stop sign out front of our house.. He came back after an hour or so,, great big huge grin on his face and said - Barney,, I wish I would have stopped by here before I bought my Ultra - that thing is AMAZING. What was amazing about it was that it fit him like a glove.. Below are a couple pics of the one he rode. This is NOT the one I modded on the pegs - this one is a bone stock example of what I am talking about.. Anyway,, hope all this opinionated non sense helps in some small way.. Wanna here another one of my opinions that I have lived by for many years? Makes no difference what cha ride - what makes the difference is that you do = get out and ride!! Puc PS = sorry about the hi-jack,, I got a bad habit of doing that!! Dont know much about the comparison between the 2nd Gen and the VStar but I do love yakking bikes so thought I would jump in here LOL

Here ya go Ponch..

Glad it worked Kid:happy34:!!! Appreciate the kind words too but I gotta tell ya something,, I am more of a "keep trying things till something works, learn by doing" kind of guy:detective: than a genius.. Tell ya what though, there are a number of folks around here that really are genius's = hang around, get that bike goin, CTFW (stands for Chase The Front Wheel = good buddy of mine coined that phrase on here and it has stuck - his name is Yammer Dan) out to a VR get together or two and,, fact is,, you will probably get to meet some of those real deal genius men and women!!

That plastic plug with the writing on it is actually suppose to be there.. It is part of the coolant system = I know this sounds crazy probably but it appears to be in the correct position for normal operation.. With the writing facing upright like one would think would be normal - it is in a bypass position.. I know, never made sense to me neither but thats the wall all 6 of my 1st Gens have been.. The original oil filter canister sets below that puppy on a machined surface of about 6 inches in diameter - this surface if machined flat and is sealed with an oring on the outer edge/bottom of the canister.. Good grief,,,,, I cant even understand myself - how you ever gonna follow that flabbaughtery... Hold on,, think I can get out of this chair and make ya a movie showing both of us what I am trying to say.. May take a sec,, be right back..

Prayers Up

You are welcome Dan!! and about the bond hearing = RATSSSS,, was totally hoping and praying for a different outcome.. We wont give up though = PRAYERS UP all the more!!!

WOWZY,,aint got near the time with these things as many of the guru's around here but I aint NEVER seen nuttin like that before.. Personally, that would never work for me - it would be laying under the scoot and oil would be shootin out of the front of my motor on our first day headed west.. Not good IMHO.. On the same token though, spinning a filter on and off would sure be east.. Do you know what they are suppose to look like Ponch? I can snap a pic for ya if you would like..

If I were in your shoes and I had a pretty good idea that the previous owner didnt just refill a totally dry clutch system that he had discovered dry after the bike had sat for a long time here is where I would begin. The high spot that I have discovered in the clutch system is where the clutch line bango's (or connects to) the master cylinder - the master cylinder is whats in front of the clutch lever.. I would pack the area under and around the master with rags and cover the scoot under the area cause hydraulic fluid is pretty nasty stuff, Now I would swivel the bars so the master is level, pull the cap and gently pull the clutch lever and gently release = wear saftey glasses until you get the hang of the system = a working master will spit in your eye.. You will see two hole in the bottom of the resevoir - the foward hole (as I recall) is the return hole and it is tiny.. Take a piece of wire out of a wire brush and poke thru it to make sure its not plugged. Not seeing much action = lay the cover back over the res, loosen the bango bolt that holds the line on - loosen it carefully and little at a time and squeeze the lever and see if you dont get air out of there.. Hold the lever at bottom against the bar and tighten the bango. What you are doing is bleeding the system from the master first = does that make sense? Now with the bango tightened back up slowly release the lever and repeat.. Checking for resistance on the lever as you bleed - do you know what I am saying by that statement? If nothing comes out at the bango joint, make sure you are loosening the banjo bolt enough to get fluid past the crush washers.. If you are and it just wont respond (this happens about 50% of the time when I am dealing with a scoot with issues like you describe) you may have to completely remove the bango bolt - pull the line back away from the master and use your finger tip in the hole of the master to bleed against. Just raise the line up so the fluid dont leak out, or have someone help you by placing their finger tips over the holes in the line so it dont leak. Now hold your finger tip gently over the hole where the bango goes into the master. Now pump the master with the lever. It takes a little practice to feel air against your finger - you just have to lightly let the air escape until the master primes.. after you have done this a number of times it only takes a second to get the master to prime.. After its primed and your getting solid fluid against you finger and you cant stop the pressure as you squeeze the lever no matter how hard you try, reattach the line, bleed it off at the bango and tighten er up.. Good chance you will have a clutch.. Hope this helps!! OPPSSSS, sorry Kid,, forgot my manners,,,, WELCOME TO VR!!! Hope you find the place so inviting that checking in on a daily basis to watch (and participate in) the crazyness unfold becomes an addiction LOL!! Glad to have ya!! Puc

Well,, I aint no engineer and actually,, just barely a back yard mechanic but have been actively involved in riding high horse, high torque scoots for many years and have noticed (at least what it "feels" like to me) that any time you add anything to the drive train that take umphhh to make it move you loose HP/Torque.. I have always theorized that when it comes to work being applied (just moving a bike forward under its own power = work) there is nothing free = every work cost in horsepower or torque.. You use the motor to spin a balance shaft you are using a certain percentage of available horse power, you use horsepower or torque to move added weight on a flywheel = it cost,, nothings free, the power you used that would have been available for another application = like maybe making the taillight on a v-4 disappear just a little slower is no longer there as it was used for another application.. Another theory of my pea brain is one I call Horsepower to weight raitio = that being that the exactly the same horsepower or torque available for matching bikes only add 100 pound of weight on one of those bikes = the heavier bike will be slower because its available horsepower is being spent to pull the xtra weight = nothings free.. BUT,, I got no book learnin to prove my theories, only the feel of the seat of the pants.. And concerning the mass of the piston changing direction.. There are, and have been for years, companies that produce forged pistons to be used instead of stock - cheaper cast pistons to mitigate the tendency of grenading as the mass changes direction = exactly what I am speaking of.. They do the same thing with rods and cranks.. All kinds of metalurgy studies have been done and, I personally have experienced a HUGE tendency for these parts to be stronger.. Another thing that is commonly done in performance market is the balancing of parts.. Also blue printing of motors to get the tolerances as close to perfect as possible = time consuming but = as I mentioned in comparing water cooled to air = tighter tolerances and being able to hold them are necessary when chasing performance..

Not even with a very very strong hurricane type tail wind.. Telling ya,, it pulls like a stock 88 inch Harley. A couple weeks ago my neighbor with his 103 inch modded Ultra, another buddy with his new CVO 110 inch Harley, another buddy with his 79 Wing and another buddy with his 103 HO Ultra Low had it out.. As always,, that beat up ol worn out Tweeks took off out front and never looked back.. At 125 the closes scoot was the CVO and it was a long way back there in rear view.. Telling ya Jeff,, I rode this new one,, it is wayyy neutered.. I personally have nephew that owns a Strat with that basic motor (Crank, pistons, rods, valves, push rods) and this new one aint even close to it and Tweeks will clean up his Strat real well.. My theory of the xtra balance shaft and xtra alternator = while being cool = has neutered that motor.. No idea of any one else on here has experience with adding weight to a fly wheel to tame hard hitting engines down but truly,, this is VERY common in the world I come from (big bore 2 stroke MX race bikes).. It is VERY common for folks learning to handle high horsepower and torque to do this so they have a little forgiveness room to learn to handle the power.. Not making this up,, hold on a second I will hit ebay up for a fly wheel weight like I am talking about.. When I do,, take note of how tiny the weight is.. On a 70 horse KX500 =12 oz's will pull about 20 horse off it = fact.. Think about that number when considering what the xtra balance shaft and alternator added to the 113 weight wize... Here ya go https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1311.R3.TR10.TRC0.A0.H0.Xfly+wheel+w.TRS0&_nkw=flywheel+weight&_sacat=0

Your forgetting one HUGE thing in your advocacy for air cooled V-twins = that being that though, all your examples are not apples to apples cause they are water cooled motors.. Every thing changes when water cooling comes into play = tolerances can get tighter and so on and so forth.. Next thing to consider is your arqument actually supports my theory because we are talking 8 cylinder motors (actually wayyy closer in design to our V-4 than a V-twin). Take your math, and do the numbers on what a V-Twin motor would have to be (bore and stroke) to come up with the displacement you are talking about.. Just the imbalance harmonically that V-Twins have (especially when you move those cylinders as close together in degrees as the 113 is) and I promise you = without HUGE crank bearings and HUGE rods and HUGE balance shafts and HUGE compensators = that sucker would come unglued at anything over 2 grand.. What am I doin,, we aint suppose to be debating this stuff.. Causes grief to some folks.. Gotta say though, being from a engineering background = I am sure you get my point(s).. It is actually simpler than that - dont have to picket for V-4's,, just a name change to something like "Stratotourer" would have solved everything from my perspective.. That alone would have solved the whole debate,, well,, except for the "turning the touring world upside down" debate maybe but that debate would have been totally subjective until we see whether or not rider preference for air cooled v-twins actually produced the sales to show that indeed = Mom Yam was successful in doing so.. WHAT A BLAST :witch_brew::witch_brew::witch_brew::witch_brew::witch_brew: Dear Lord,, please forgive me for my ways.. Puc

I have seen numerous FJR's out adventure touring and WOWZY = ol Pucster is right there with ya ya lop eared White Washin varmint.. NICE SCOOTS!! Admiring them, I noticed that the rider legs seem to be splayed out for some reason.. While its possible that I was seeing things (the joy of riding my 1st Gens has been known to be soooo strong that I can get halluctional - extreme adrenaline rushes can do that cha know) - I would strongly advise that you take a moment and at least sit one before ya plop down any $$'s.. What am I saying,, you and I are exactly alike = aint prone to buy NUTTIN lest we know what we are gettin into = both worked wayyy to hard for our $$$'s!! On another thought Jeff,, with your background and understanding of the V-4,, cant help but wonder if you have owned a V-Max yet?? Seeing a fair amount of em around at decent prices (pre 1700cc).. Just saw a 99 for 3400.. Anyway,, I strongly suggest all of us motivated -sincere 1st Gen Venture riders own one before our time runs out - THAT is one amazing machine I tell ya.. Not on the same page as an R1 but still = the fun factor is there = there be magic between those bars!! Trust me,, ol Puc knows from experience what he is saying!! Either way and what ever you decide = your ALWAYS welcome to ride over for a Hot Dog ya know!! Prayers Up for your healing!! Puc