cowpuc

Walked down by the Silversides submarine which is parked in the channel, snowing like crazy (hope WWW Fool dont see that) down there!! So Squid, you say you learned to PAINT in the Navy? Is that like with a roller brush or stuff like air brushing? You ever do any 3 part painting? I did numerous restores of real early Honda Mini Trails years ago (GOOD business!! Big $ items!!) - back in the day (late 60's) Honda used a three part paint system on their bikes,, they did that to create the "candy" look with metal sparkle in the background of the color of the bikes.. I never ever ever learned to paint, although I did actually go to paint school (air brush) at Sturgis one year in an effort to do some of my own painting on my Chopper mods and failed miserably at that too. For my Mini Trails (some of which went under glass in upscale business offices) I ended up hiring the work out. It was not uncommon for my shop to end up paying over 1200 bucks just for paint work on a tiny little Mini Trail and most of that was due to having it "3 part painted" to look OEM.. Any of that make sense to you? You ever look closely at some of HD's paint work? I bought/sold numerous HD's thru the years, had a brand new left over 2001 Concord Purple Wide Glide that I sold to a guy in Jersey who owned a Dodge dealership there.. The bikes paint job was drop dead gorgeous (no body paints like HD IMHO) with inlaid gold emblems that looked 1/2 mile deep set into the paint.. The purple was obviously 3 part over silver cause wow did it sparkle on the base,, just amazing.. I have always had a hunch that HD learned this techinque for Honda back in the 60's.. What say you?

THAT is AWESOME!! Thank you Brad for your service and thank you for the schoolin!! Tip is tugging on my arm to take her out for our daily 2 mile walk (doctors orders - my heart, her colestoral) BEFORE it gets dark here in Michigan but I got some thoughts rattling around in my head (as usual) concerning the matter.. Be right back!! Puc

@circa1968,,, I am almost positive that one of our club members actually offers a carb swap (you send him your carb bank and he sends you a completely rebuilt set ready to go) thing for club members here. I cant imagine his prices being much lower than that 300 dollar range though as I know it is not cheap, just for parts, to go through for carbs BUT,, you might dig around and see if you could locate him just to find out if his service is still out there and the costs thereof. I am not sure if @skydoc_17 is the person I am thinking of,, for some reason I dont think so, but even if it is not Earl, he probably knows of whom I speak. Also, @eusa1, the diamond cut guy just popped into my head, maybe he is who I am thinking of.. Either way,, I am sure one of these lop eared va,, fine gentlemen will be able to help you with my forgetful brain!! I do know that buying used carbs off the internet can be a risky business and I would rather buy a rebuilt from a known source that risk a used one with the potential of having more problems that those you already have,, just a though..

Thank you Squid!! I knew it would have something to do with being the brains of some kind of operation. It sounds like you are describing taking care of the structural aspect of airplanes? If so, did you ever get to see/touch an A-10 Warthog? Reason I ask, many years ago my son Jay and I went up to Waters Michigan to a practice air base out in the middle of nowhere called "Steel Gate" - it was during the early 90's and the place was open to the public,,, wayyyy cool!! We watched A-10's fly in for "practice" with their 20mm gatlings opening up on some beat up tanks and stuff in a huge field.. WOWZY was that amazing!! Shoulda heard them gatlings - OH MY GOODNESS, talk about fire power.. We saw lots of birds, including Helio's up there thru the years but bar none,, our favorite was the Warthog!!

Ok brother,,, as you know,, I know nothing of the military so you gotta explain something to me,, what is AMS3? I get one guess right? Right.. Soooo,, my guess,,, Almost Mid Ship 3rd bunk... Am I close😄? Heyy,, I tried!!

Tip, Tweeks and I went huntin for a Vogel one time and this is what we found (YE BE WARNED):

Heyyy,, hiya @jars1956, retired Navy!! Thank you for your service and welcome to VR!! Glad to have you aboard!! Puc

Yep,, that is a fact @BlueSky,,, out of my 6 xvz1200's, 5 of which were/are 83's and 1 84 I have never ever opened one up and did the valves.. I have also never ever ran synthetic oils to accomplish that BUT I always have kept clean oil in em,, cheap stuff, usually 20/50 (ran Walmart Supertech for many years and then when wally world stopped carrying that cheap stuff I jumped over to Family Dollar 20/50). Of those 6 bikes, all ran out well over 200k, I know for certain that 3 of them were never opened up from new.. 2 of them I am uncertain about whether or not a previous owner had the valves checked cause I did not know enough of their history BUT, even those were low mileage, blown 2nd gear bikes with under 35k on em so I doubt it.. Now get this - you should find this interesting Sky cause I sure do, the last one, Tweeksis, the one we ride now, had her valves adjusted SEVERAL times (may have 10 or 12 times, cant remember) in her early life,, I know this because Carbon One gave me her complete maintenance and repair work history schedule records that "DenDen" kept on her and those adjustments are recorded right there in black and white. I have no doubt of the honesty of those records as even @Squidley, a really good friend of mine - straight shooter that Squid, has stated he knew DenDen (correct me if I am wrong on this Brad and am thinking of someone else) and DenDen was a gearhead. Ironically, Tweeksis's valves are some of the loudest valves I have ever heard on any of my 1st Gens.. I keep thinking that maybe DenDen set them on the high side for break in purposes,, not sure. DenDen also did repair the 2nd gear in Tweeksis too,, thats right,, she is my ONLY complete trannied 1st Gen scoot out of all those miles and miles and miles LOL. On a side note,, do I advise just runnin em till she drops,,, nahhhh.. I only did that because back in the day, blown 2nd gear Ventures were all over the place CHEAP and after the first one proved reliable well past 200k with no 2nd gear, I just ran em till they dropped and then grabbed another for a few bucks - it was never worth the time to open one up and fool with the valves or tranny or crank or whatever else IMHO - I always had TONS of other bikes to work on around the shop - these Yams were my go to bike for just riding em out. Another of my IMHO's, I have a hunch that something changed in Mom Yams quality control in the newer V-4's or something.. I have heard of many many more valves going tight on the new ones for some reason,, it just seems like that. This may sound crazy but that also goes for fuel pumps and rear shocks too.. I also have noticed, what seems to me anyway, more Regulators failing too. Just some thoughts.. Maybe folks who have owned both for years could share thoughts on that either way. Be an interesting thread maybe,, maybe not.. Puc

That looks like a BLAST @uncledj!! I always enjoyed working in the air,, hanging upside down on a boiler wall riggin or welding tube (cant call em Pipe,, and Fitters here would whoop on me for that).. I am also with @Flyinfool,, sitting in tree at 35 feet hunting deer was also my MO!! Ya done good ya Lop Eared tree trimming Varmint!! You DEFINITELY put a smile on this geezers mug!

Seeing I got summons here (thanks @Patch) I thought I better join in on the fun and share some more, maybe it will help - maybe it won't back yard wrench spinning free advice.. Noting now @circa1968 that you have been taking your temp reading off different spots on both the front and rear jugs changes the dynamics a lot IMHO. Taking the reading right off the header itself on the rears and off the clamps on the front should actually read about what you are describing.. The headers are way thinner than the clamps and are also in direct line of fire for exhaust flames,, to me what you are saying makes sense. Also, those front jugs are directly exposed to air flow with the rear jugs getting no where near the exposure. I ran/rebuilt/tuned/modded numerous HD air cooled over the years and being air cooled - one of the things I did was ran dual carbs (or later injected with a race tuner was even easier to do this) and then run fatter on the rear jug to keep it cooler.. Lean = hot IMHO. I always found the following advice a little easier to do on a single, or even a twin cylinder scoot but with a little focus on my part I can usually adjust by ear a multi jug, multi carb in the following way too. Another way besides the following is with either a sniffer or a Color Tune (so you can actually look into the combustion chamber and adjust for the blue flame) but again, I have found following to work well. If lean does equal heat than it may be possible that you are seeing a lean condition.. That would not surprise me because it seems like for many years bike manufacturers have been actually outputting scoots that run extremely lean since new, maybe due to EPA regs,, maybe not.. Maybe I am even wayyyy off base with that comment but it seems that way to me.. I have noticed lean idle circuits also causing erratic idle and also stumble right off the bottom when you crack the throttle,, a bog so to speak.. The way an idle circuit works, at least in my pea brain, is that with the throttle plates closed meaning your throttle is twisted at all and your throttle cable has slack in it, vacuum forms behind the throttle plate and fuel/air mix is drawn into the throat of the carb thru that set of little holes you will see back there. One of the ways I always used, right or wrong it worked for me, to know that my low speed jets were correct size and that I used for setting my air screws with NO sniffer or carb tune was by ear tuning. Simply run your air screws down to bottom lightly and back them out a turn, start your bike and let it warm up so it is no longer needing choke, set your idle at 1000 rpm, now adjust the air screw and adjust it out till it reaches top r's - there should be a point where it reaches top rpms and if you keep unscrewing it will falls off again, then screw it back in till it reaches top r's again, now screw it in farther and it will fall off again. The "sweet spot" of top R's on the air screw is where I always found the perfect idle circuitry tune. Now if you run the screw back to bottom and note the turns it takes to get to a soft bottom - if the turns equal between 1 and 3 turns out you have the correct idle/low speed jet in that carb. If the top r's are below 1 turn your low speed jet is to small, higher than 3 turns out and your low speed jet is to high. Make since? If so, and I have used this method for years in tuning, than you can now see where you could use that logic in diagnosing whether you are dealing with a lean low speed circuitry caused by crud buildup in one of your carbs or not simply by tuning them. Right off idle and up to WOT (wide open throttle) and the tapered metering rod hanging off the slide into the emulsion tube and the main jet at the bottom of the tube take over. I spent a couple years doing final tune on small 1 pot Hondas at a Honda dealership and 90% of the final tune work on those brand new bikes right out of the crate was moving the E clip on that jet needle hanging from the slide to get em to run right.. Most of the time this meant fattening em up so they didnt bog when I wacked the throttle. Because our V-4's carbs do not have E-clips I am running shimmed metering rods in mine right now. Shimming them out gives you a fatter off idle/mid range/WOT,, lowering them will lean er down.. Why do I mention this? Because,, IMHO, you could - for very little money - fatten up a jug or two and see if your temps drop.. If they did, again IMHO, this could indicate a partially blocked main.. Make since? I know,, getting long winded,, dont blame me, blame @Patch lol

Me and Tweeks give that young lady a 5 star billing!! NICE @circa1968,, really NICE!!!

@skydoc_17,, Earl I know that pic looked absolutely normal to you, and it probably would to me too if I had just went thru fry pan adjustment like you just worked your way thru, but something did not come thru correctly on my end so I thought I would volunteer some rotational assistance. Tippy wants to know if, after your ears stop ringing, you would ask that lovely bride of yours how she chooses Rockwell hardness on her fry pans she uses for corrective devices? She mumbled something about the point on my bald head having a tendency of deforming her pans. Puc

For person who teaches Science in High School he is easily distracted in his thoughts of whether those bones are Human or Deer and he certainly shows nothing in respect or concern of it being a person who had lost their life. The "whoops" also sounded extremely human in dialect (sounds like a couple hunting buddies of mine having fun) and, from what I know of Squatches,, they are more jittery than a White Tail Deer and any self respecting Squatch wouldnt be caught dead yelling back in forth to his buddies in a warning that = RUN,,, RUN NOW!! I SMELL A HUMAN! Personally,, I think the Scientist doing the filming may be one of the varmints that sent @Flyinfool death threats (corrected - they were not death threats, just some nasty notes condeming his lack of moral center) over his ability to control the weather.. On another note though, if we were talking UFO's and Alien's and the video were this one,,, I think I could be just as distracted:

BEAUTIFUL!!! Wanna hear something sad brother, we live in the "U" of having being within a mile or so of three lakes, sort of like living on our own fresh water peninsula. Sadly, neither Tip or I have ever been bitten by the boating bug.. I did the ski boat thing when younger, even made my own Slalom ski, tigged up a gorgeous stainless 7 inch skag for it and everything.. Lots of fun but the boating just never "took" like bikes did. Now all we have is our little 12 foot flat bottom bass boat that we do a fair amount of fishing in. Got a 9.5 horse Evinrude for it out in the shed - aint been ran in decades cause we just use the trolling motor. I did have a Sunfish sailboat for a while that the kids and I had a blast playing with but even that turned into more of swim toy than anything. I am using a section of the mass for it as a coat hanging rod in the garage LOL,, still got the rudder and center board for it around here somewhere,, if you was closer I would give it to you just cause I love ya!! That is a gorgeous ship though CapN' Jack!! You reel it in and the next time I am out there you and I could go over to the Water Recreation area over on Twin Cities/104 Road near the Nuclear Plant that Tip and I pass when we sneak in the back door across the Sierra Nevada's to visit the kids in Wilton and give er a run!!

Somewhere in my long life of back yard wrench spinning I picked up the slang for the "Oil Cleaner" or "Strainer" as calling it an Oil Pan and, right or wrong,, that stuck.. @N3FOL, Tip, Tweeks and I made the run out to Lake George/Americade for the unveiling of the new bike and then out to Sturgis that fall to demo them so we had a pretty good chance to look em over. Here are a couple vids of the SVTC/Eluder under glass from Sturgis. I do not recall seeing an "Oil Pan" on the new 113 in all that crawling around them/checking them out, I did actually look for one on a demo bike at Sturgis cause I really wanted to check the temp on it with my temp lazer gun cause the factory guys had told me Yamaha had found a new way to control oil/engine temps on their new air cooled engine. I may be wrong, and it would not surprise me one bit to find out I am on this cause it was pretty tight under there for my fat head, but something tells me your scoot does not employ one.

What do you think Jack, think it would be easier for us GEEZERS to slip into a C2 or a C3? Either way though brother,, aint neither one of us gonna give up on the Butter Nut for no stinkin car,,, even a Bucket list Vette dont stand a chance against a Bowl Of Butter Nut!!

I was thinking something similar @Flyinfool. I was thinking a Military Surp Ammo Box, those suckers are tough as nails. I think a 556 NATO would probably do it. @skydoc_17, I am so sorry to hear this happened but really glad it is all coming back together my friend! THANK YOU for all you have done/do for our club!!

Tie wraps around the bases and then others thru the base loops and over a 2x4 so you have something to pull on or pry on (2x4 is a lot more forgiving than carb bodies/linkages) works great too but you still gotta be careful of those linkages. Cover the carb throats with a rag so your sweat dont drip into the carbs lol.. Cut a 2x to sit over the throats, put a rag over that and then a 2x with tie wraps again to push the carb bank back in too. That really helps to make sure the carb spigots snap all the way into the intakes. Pushin em 4 at a time like that can be fun.

Heyyyy,, @Jesusjunkie ,,, I'm a Jesus Junkie too,, WELCOME TO VR!! I have never owned a 2nd Gen like yours but I got a gut feeling there is pretty good chance your Engine Number will be in the same place as that on my 1st Gens. While Michigan does not require that number and I have never really gone looking for it I do believe it located across the rear of engine right in behind the top of the forward bevel gear.. If you look at this video about stator testing, go to 13:17 on the time line and stop. Look at the bolt head that my red ohm meter lead is attached to. Now look directly behind the bolt and plate sticking up the bolt secures and you will see some of the numbers. Thats all I got,, hope it helps!! Puc

I am probably way out of line speaking for @Popsnana19655 on this @Marcarl but for many many years us back yard, make em run sometimes gearheads operating within a tight budget would tip a head over to check its valves and do so by dumping raw gas into the combustion chamber around the valves and see if it would leak past the valve faces. That test this old wannabe gearhead has used many times actually served me pretty good in a tight spot in the past.. If I am correct in my minds eye about that is what Pops was referring to and you do decide you wanna try it sometime, it is advisable to leave the plug in the head when you do cause otherwise your foot will get wet with gas and Marca wont let you back in the house cause you will smell funny. Right there with @Patch Pops but I just thought I would pass this along in case your budget doesnt allow for spending right now,, hey brother,, has happened to me more than once. I would take the time to pull the valves, check and see if its just surface crud causing them to not seat - should be easy enough to do. Maybe use a black sharpie permenant marker on their faces, tiny dab of valve lapping compound on em or just spin em back and forth on their seats and see if they scrape even all the way around or are bent. If bent your into valve $ cause I doubt you can straighten em. I had a valve go open on a Honda 350 on a cross country trip once and ended up having to lap it in to get er to run again so I could get home on it.. What I did under that challenging time was pulled the valves, cleaned up their faces, glued the valves together (exhaust to intake, face to face) with super glue then I used the stem of the valve that was not in the guide to attach an old hand drill onto. A small dab of valve lapping compound (I actually used grind dust out of a bench grinder mixed with grease - dont laugh,, it worked pretty good LOL) on the valve face that I was seating, using the forward and reverse on the little drill and carefully touching the valve seat face with the valve face and they seated right in pretty good. Now,, all that said, I warn you that some valves (and I would not be surprised that this includes OEM Yam valves) are coated and once you cut thru that coating - the valves dont last. These arent Briggs and Stratton valves brother.. I use to have a granite surface plate at the shop for doing precision work on like checking heads for warpage with feeler gauges, dial indicators and good precision straight edges BUT before that time I used a sheet of thick glass on a couple two by sixes to work with for years. You might try doing that, lay a piece of 220 grit sand paper over the glass, put the head down face first on the paper and work it in a circle lightly, lift the head up after a few circles and see what the surface looks like. You can do the same thing with a good flat file with 220 wrapped on it and holding one end of it against the face and pivoting it across the face of the head but you gotta be extra careful doing that to keep even pressure on the file. My first guess, and take this from one who knows nothin about nothin, is that if you have warpage it will be the head. The cylinders are intregal of the block as far as I know which should give the pots some rigidity and a little more resistance to warp BUT,, I would still take the 220 covered flat file and run it over the deck to check for highspots anyway. I have no idea if Mom Yam makes a complete top end gasket kit for these bikes but aftermarkets like Cometic might. Some of those after markets used to come complete with valve stem seals. If it were me I would probably spring for seals even if I could not get em in a kit. If your not gonna spring the bucks for new rubber up on the cam cover,, you know,, that one with the little moons on it,, I would clean it all up really really well with carb cleaner to remove oil residue and use YamaBond 4 on the old rubber. I used YamaBond 5 exclusively to successfully patch up my torn/holed diaphrams on my 1st Gens for years (new ones were wayyyyy to costly for my liking - I could actually replace my bike x2 for the costs that Yam wanted just for diaphrams ). Then I found this product called E-6000 (I will see if I can find you a video of that amazing product) that actually lasts longer then YamaBond 5 on the diaphrams BUT - I dont think I would use it in an area that I might want to go back in and have to remove the stuff,, it is that potent. Ok,, so right about now you gotta be saying to yourself,, Puc is nuts.. Maybe so BUT,, in a pinch,, the above might work LOL Puc

This may,, or may not help.. Hopefully it does.

Now THAT is what I am talking about!!! Good on you brother!!! ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS PIC!! THANKS!!

shhhhhhh,, baby sitting grandson,, just got the little varmint to nod out,,,, 9 months old,, very very touchy!! fun though!! got for a couple days while his brother goes for some tests... he is in good hands though,, Tip, Tweeks, myself and the Lord watching em grow.. What da heck to you mean WE prefer jeans and a tee shirt you lop eared brother varmint of mine? You KNOW I cant stand wearing a shirt and only wear one when I have to!! That desert sun out there is NEKID COUNTRY!! Hey you varmint, with all this baby sitting you are writing em faster than I can read em !! Good on ya,, build em up for me my brother!! LOTS of read time coming cause I heard @Flyinfool is really stirring things up!! You see the weather out your way? Keep those nozzles pointed west Jeff,, I heard my brother out there has some new, uppity fancy Klim jacket and some heated clothing he is really wanting to put thru its paces!! Open the gate and get the way! Neil Wyenn coming outa chute 9!! Take it back on the "I dont wear tee shirts" just found a pic of myself wearing one and a JACKET (see below) if you can believe it!! I do wear one when I have too I guess!! lol Luv ya just cause your you! Me

I cant help but wonder if the 2nd punch mark is for the update on the water pump. I have replaced numerous plastic water pump impellars in my course of retiring 6 1st Gens with the updated aluminum one . Possibly one punch for the stator and one for the water pump as it is possible that there was a recall on the impellar,, could be wrong though.

I just noticed this on another site and thought it best to pass along.. I am sure those involved would appreciate our thoughts and prayers.. On another note, I know our club has numerous members in the Atlanta area, double that thoughts and Prayers Up for any of our members or members family involved.. Anyone else have any knowledge of this: """I had to run down to Atlanta this afternoon and was coming back north around 4 ish. Not exact on the time. Stopped for over an hour on I-75 NB near Emory. Not sure who these rider's were affiliated with but they were involved in a REALLY bad accident, HOV lane, 4 bikes down 1 on the stand and a can am spyder sitting last and a car in among them. Not sure what caused the wreck. Unfortunately it appeared one had passed away at the scene still on the pavement covered and possibly more I could not tell but at least 6 ambulances passed by me going to the scene Guys and gals please keep your head on a swivel and ride smart so you can enjoy the next time out. Downtown Atlanta close to rush hour not the best idea to ride on a 6+ lane speedway with everyone looking at their phones""