cowpuc

Actually you missed that part of this little debate,, thinking back,, this may have even before this turned into a full blown camp fire, hot dog roasting debate with the Jeff popping the lid on the rum balls to calm his nerves = wayyy back somewhere in this discussion, probably 10 threads ago (maybe while you were playing in Mexico) that was talked about some.. I think when that force where the piston is trying to keep heading in the direction it is heading in (whether its up the stroke or down the stroke) becomes so great that the piston actually comes apart in it's effort to keep going in the direction it is heading is directly related to piston speed... Now that cha got me thinkin again about that though Bob, another part of that changing direction inertia thing to think about, at least in my pea brain is the increase or decrease of piston speed along the rotational area of the wrist pin and crank pin as the rod moves back and forth just before the piston comes to a dead stop and heads the other way.. There is a LOT going on there and I think this piston speed according to stroke length may end up being just a real easy way to determine rev limits without having to go thru a whole bunch of math... Since seeing that calculator,, my resolve in thinking my thinking is correct has actually getting stronger

Another GREAT one XV!! Thanks for participating in this debate brother!!! So I clicked on the link the link that XV posted above,, about 1/4 page down was a You Tube vid linked inside of that article.. Clicked on it and below is what appeared.. Made me wonder if the viewing audience toF this debate would like to see Fool produce a video like this? I know I sure would!!! WOWZY = look at the math!!!!!!

Yea!! And exactly WHY weren't you aware of that Bongo?

Ya know,, this is really turning into something I never considered before - stretching of the brain,,,,, I am beginning to understand a little more of why modern scoots have rev limiters = that "need" is starting to come clear to me.. If a person looks at what I am talking about as a scientific means to determine where your max R's should be, or where your engines rev limiter should be set to protect your engine from destroying itself = pretty interesting.. I wonder if engineers who work for corporations use this very math to make those factory settings?? Funny,, I always thought mounted tach's were for those who couldn't "feel" the horsepower running out by the seat of their pants and know by that feel when to shift so ya win the race = you know,, let the tach tell ya when to shift..

AHAAAAA!! Now we got it happening!! I contend that those numbers of 3500, 4000 and 5000 are far from arbitary.. Those are, as matter of scientific fact, speed limit numbers for the components listed in the categories they correspond with = you cross those speed limits and you risk BOOM = GRENADE TIME!! That understood and accepted = go back and plug in the new Venture's stroke = 4.7, now hit calculate on the "stock" category and see what you come up with for max rpm to stay safe with that motor = set your rev limiter at 4468 (4500).. Of course,, that rev limit is gonna go up as you mod the motor with forged parts or other stronger ways like peening rods as clearly mentioned in the other categorys in that calculator.. It is interesting here, IMHO, to see that this calculator actually is saying that I am wrong in my understanding of 4000 FPM being the magic number.. I know I was told 4000 years ago but according to this = the safe opporating speed for stock engine components has actually dropped to 3500 FPM!! NAHHHHHH NAHHHHH DEEEE BOOOO BOOO!! :moon: Also,, you bringing up torque vs HP sets up a whole nuther round of debate!! Gonna need a whole new batch of Hot Dog's for that one cause, IMHO,, once you cross that 5200 RPM line = torque becomes a non issue (even though HP is actually a function of Torque) and irrelevant and it all becomes about HORSEPOWER - BUT, ya gotta be able to spin em up to get there,, the farther beyond that 5200 R line ya get without grenading due to excessive piston speed (controlled by stroke length) = the more exciting life gets cause high horsepower ROCKS!! ****** Is it obvious? = I am more of a MOTO GP, Motocross or Formula One racing lover than an All Harley Drag or Tractor Pulling kind of guy:banana::banana::banana::guitarist 2::guitarist 2::rasberry:

That may very well happen Brewster BUT = what about those remaining teaser vids?? They promised and we need em.. I WANT MY TEASER VIDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :happy65::happy65::happy65::happy65:

I think it's the fairing/trunk/bag assembly that makes it snazzy IMHO.. It's hind end reminds me a little of a couple of Honda Silverwings I redid and resold a number of years ago. Thinking about this one,, I know for a fact I never had the pleasure of owning one like this and, matter of fact, I dont recall ever seeing one on the road = at least not dressed like this.. Anyone else had one? Neat looking scoot... https://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/mcy/d/yahama-motorcycle/6358363153.html

,,,, what da heck,,, must be the year for corporate chain jerking of the consumer or something 1st Polaris yanks the rug out from under their faithful Victory riders... Next Mom Yam pulls our strings by telling us she is gonna turn the touring world upside down and ends up using an Air Cooled motor to attempt to perform that task. Now Honda, good ol dependable Honda, said they were gonna do a series of teaser vids up to the unveil day of the 24th.. Problem is,, it's the 24'th and no additional vid's and no unveil.. Getting kinda nervous,,,,, in a good kind of way,,, come on Honda,, lower the boom, make motorcycling history like you did with the SOHC750 - CR250M Elsinore - TRX250R Quad - MB5 - Hurricane and so many others, hope we aint been had (again) and this is all about a 175 horse Beemer whoopin of a machine with precision frame/steering geometry that leaves nothing but a vapor trail and leaning over of Ponderosa Pine trees up on the entrance of the North Rim for those tourers so inclined to enjoy such a thrill.. :banana:

Thanks GnV = THAT is wayyyy cool IMHO.. Dont know much about vintage Bugles but a quick glance on Google show's that horn coulda been something from as far back as the Civil War - pretty neat!! Next question is,, can ya play it??

Another VERY interesting thing about that calculator is that if you plug in the stroke of the new Venture (4.7) into the Stock components category = the calculator will return just under 4500 RPM to max rev's or where the rev limiter should be set.. Interestingly enough - that is exactly where Mom Yam set the rev limiter on the new one....

For sure but I gotta a hunch that it's actually the metal structure/alloy of the high compression piston that creates a more durable piston/rod assembly that allows for the piston to be able to go faster without grenading.. If you look at this calculator that XV came up with (NICE = thanks XV) (calculator is found here: http://thefirstgensite.com/code/maxrpm.htm ) and play with it a little bit you may notice the different catagory's for determining max revs will go up as you change into non stock catagories = VERY interesting little calculator IMHO!! The first catagory in that calculator actually is saying that with stock motors, the max safe piston speed is 3500 feet per minute.. Get up above that and ya start needing to think forged pistons, peened rods (like you mentioned = often found in High Compression Pistons..

My debate platform presentation :

@Flyinfool and I are continuing our debate concerning the concept of terminal (meaning at a certain speed pistons and rods come unglued) Piston speed limits. At present time the debate is centered around whether or not there is such a thing and whether or not piston speed is relevant to the maximum RPM a motor can spin up without self destructing.. In another thread, where Fool did everything he could do to get me to commit another heinous act of with his comment and it didnt work, FlyingFool posted: ""Puc I still have to disagree with you on the "physics" of max RPM. There are engines out there that have a bigger bore and a longer stroke than the Yamaharley that will spin well over 5K"" - To which I started to reply but then decided to defer our debate to this thread as I have developed an allergy to club probation.. In posting this thread, Fool and I would like to invite any and all of our other club members to feel free to participate = we welcome your thoughts, theories and philosophies on this subject. For those of you who may be nervous about letting your true feelings about such a sensitive subject known = we would like you to feel free to participate in the Poll. Your response will remain anonymous to protect the innocent - as if I know any members wh,,,, sorry,,, you integrity will be protected.. At this time I am cooking my debate platform on You Tube so the few people who actually follow my You Tube channel (my Grandson in California LOVES this stuff!!) can also participate if they so desire.. I will post my actual debate response as soon as it is done cooking.. I am thinking Fool will probably want to update his response from that of above but if not,, that's OK,, we know enough about his stand already to know his side of all this (Engineering brain against a back yard mechanic (ME) "has been") and you varmints can decide a debate winner from that!! LET THE DEBATE BEGIN!!!

That'll teach ya to mess with cow pucky,,,,, get that stuff wet and WOWZY does it get slick!!!

I do admit though,, I LOVE the little pic of the guy in the plow truck in your post brother = wayyyyy awesome!!!! The resembulance by him and the guy in this video wishing DanL' a get well is AMAZING!!!! ,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,, :snow:

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not now!!!!! Go back and read your post about the you not agreeing with me about piston speed!! I was just getting ready to give your brain something to do = please,,, go back inside farrrrrrr away from that infamous white washer tool shed back there ya lop eared ice in your veins varmint!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WOWZY how I wish we didnt have this pond between us Fool cause you and I could have SOOOOOO much fun putting to test some of our ,, ... Taking it all from campfire debates to out and out man cave exploits would be nothing short of dangerous ... Oh well,, it is what it is so we gotta stick with the perverbial hot dog roast banter.. In an effort to support my side of this very interesting, yet formitable debate, I would like to present some background into the testing of my theory and what led me into a deeper understanding of the laws of physics that apply here.. When I was a very young torturer of internal combustion engines mounted on two whe,,,,,,, hey,, wait a second,, I think we are both about to cross into major :hijacked: land.. A place that can lead to club probation and I am not sure that you and I could tolerate being locked up together cause I never heard you sing and anyone who gets locked up with me really needs to be able to sing Folsom Prison blues ... Think we should start a new thread so as to be not rude to Bay... In the spirit of good form and in accordance with The Code,, I will put forth an effort to start such a thread,, maybe even make it a Poll thread so others can join in and participate with at least a vote of confidence if they dont feel confident enough in their own thoughts on the subject to actually participate in the debate... What say you? Sound like fun? Hey Bay,,,, sorry for the hi-jack to this point.. It's a flaw in my character

I have been saying for what seems like EVER.. Years ago, after my first encounter with a turbo boosted system I always wondered why we didnt see turbo's on every gas engine made. I have always looked at exhaust gases that spin a turbo as wasted energy,, just something that always bugged me.. Then, years ago, after purchasing our first Korean made car and taking in for a recall on its fuel tank straps = there in the new car show room sat factory, little motored, twin turbo auto's.. I called Tippy over and showed her them and said FINALLY someone is taking turbo charging seriously = LOOK AT THIS!! Now,, years later,, turboing is FINALLY catching on!! Quite frankly,, I was really really hoping it I was going to be immensely surprised and able to jump up and down out at Americade when Mom Yam introduced the new V-Max motored Venture as their first shot at doing a twin turbo boosted touring bike capable of 55 mpg while also capable of 170 ft pd and 185 horses.. A real deal game changer!! Fact is, I seriously dont think going toe to toe with Harley on their design at their pricing is even possible = I still think it is a fool's errand to even try.. IMHO, Mom Yam of all corporations should know this = they and the other Japanese manufacturers (and some Domestic too) have been trying it for years with Shadow's, VTX's, Vulcan's, Raider's, Strat's, XCT's, Vision's, Indian's, Intruders and on and on and it never works = even when those clones are priced wayyyyy below those of the Motor Company's line.. When ya think about what I am trying to say,, even the folks at Harley have no clue why what they have works so well = ever notice how every time they (HD) go outside of their archiac play box and try something new it fails for them too (think Buell, think V-Rod, think their 70's Dirt bikes, Armechi 350's,snowmobiles, bicycles, golf carts and on and on).. I still think it's innovation like this turboing idea that Kawasaki is now talking about is where the future is for anything outside the HD box. Goodness,, think about it = build a precision Tourer that can deliver Yamaha R1 (I like to use the R1 cause I got one, know first hand what they are and wow is it impressive = WOW) like canyon carving and white knuckle producing peppiness to boot along with extreme frugalness in MPG's that only precisionly effecient motors can deliver. IMHO, this is the zone that HD can not play in (all though they had a fairly good start with the V-Rod - wayyyy impressive motor for a V-Twin but NO BODY wanted em so they are no more). A zone completely unknown and not accessible to the long stroke of a big twin air cooled HD = by the law's of physics they cannot go there.. Personally,, I have been back to my normal self with :fingers-crossed-emo:fingers-crossed-emo:fingers-crossed-emo waiting to see what Honda is going to introduce in a day or so with this new Wing = could be VERY interesting when you think about it because their closest competitor, now that Mom Yam decided to chase HD, for a real deal performance oriented long rider bike is that 160 HP Beemer = I REALLY got my that Mom Honda does what Mom Yam chose not to do and actually does take a shot at the title.. Now,, reading and seeing this stuff about where Kawasaki may be headed with their H2 technology = brothers, ol Puc has once again got it happening from ear to ear = = happier then a Road Runner on an open desert New Mexico roadway = MEEP MEEP!!

I agree, there is LOTS about this new one that makes no logical sense.. First and foremost IMHO is the elephant in the room that most if not all of us here in the club have, like you Geo, questioned = why no V-Max motor. Fact is, one does not have to lolly gag around our clubhouse here to much to find the lists that each of us made in pointing out what we were hoping for and, if one did this, one would find that almost exclusively we all asked for water cooled, V-Max motored, shaft drive.. IMHO,, as a group, we did not get even close to what we were looking for = does this matter? Obviously to some of us in the club, it matters BUT, to a company like Yamaha that is looking at profitability = I think a glance at the size of our group as apposed to the size of other groups that they may see purchasing their product is what matters to them (as it should be). I also have a theory that Mom Yam adjusted her sights in the process of producing the new Venture. When they p hit the magic button(s) on em out at Americade during the unveiling and I heard the familiar tone of a Strat 113 inch V-Twin my first words were = "OHH POOP" cause I knew we had been had.. My very first words when I first saw one as they pulled them up on the stage was "It's a Polaris Victory".. After we got home I spent some time shadowing other club's on the net and guess what,,, the gang over on the Victory site were wayyy more excited about the new Venture than even our club (IMHO). As a matter of fact, I even read several posts from members over there that openly stated they saw Victory blood in the new Venture too.. From all of that, and from some of the possible design flaws that I see (all but the bottom two "vents" on the non removeable lowers on the Venture are FAKE = keeping air flow away from an air cooled motor?) - I actually wonder if part way thru the design process, Mom Yam caught wind of Polaris's plan on dumping Victory and somehow thought (and maybe this will happen) by switching over to developing an air cooled touring bike may bring in those Victory riders scorned by Polaris (I even told Tippy at the time that I thought maybe Arlen Ness or another Victory design engineer had jumped ship and landed at Yamaha). If you look closely at the fairing/front end of the scoot it is clear (IMHO) that the design was intended for a water cooled motor and, it's looks from the front SCREAM = BAD TO THE BONE V-MAX!! I think Mom Yam was on the right track and then something happened because when you walk around the fairing and sit down, everything behind the fairing screams something different and I think it screams Polaris.. Even the dash and bar layout has a Polaris feel to it,, as does the seating position and floor board placement.. What I am trying to say, I think, is the bike seem's confused about what it really is in its design. I honestly think the whole package is a shot in the dark to bring in as many over looked air cooled heavy bike customers (over looked by Harley, Polaris) as possible while also drawing in a few faithful Venture riders just by using the Venture name.. I think it's a numbers game and that the numbers to support what we were hoping for here in our club just were not large enough to support building what we were asking for.. Personally I hope it works for Mom Yam - I really do. I hope that people trip over themselves to join the ranks of exclusiveness offered in the new Venture ($575 rear tire = now THATS exclusiveness). If that happened it would mean that someone, FINALLY figured out the combination to the lock on the mystery behind Harley Davidson's ability to sell so many bling covered 1903 air cooled V-Twin designed motorcycles that they maintain ownership of over 50% of the heavy bike market. On the same token though,, I have a hunch that it's a fool's errand though and I base part of that on the fact that the reason Polaris dropped Victory was because they didnt sell and I also know that the they are having a pretty hard time with sales in the their new Indian line too (TON'S of left overs offered CHEAP right now for both Polaris Indian's and Victory's = GREAT time to grab one!). Indeed Geo,, I stand shoulder to shoulder with you and join you in wondering why on God's green earth Mom Yam did that... I would like to know too,, I really really would!!

Touch that probe lead on 12v and it will go out. If your running a battery without the probe port and want to permanently turn off that little red flashing light without using a hunk of black tape on your dash (personally I like the tape idea Snype, have used it many times LOL) it's best to put a resistor in between the lead and the 12v source (BATTERY + TERMINAL or other) to protect the circuit but I have ran a long while without one and not had issues but it is risky..

I LOVE this thread and am one of those who you mention may someday benefit from all this Geo.. That said,, and in the spirit of campfire chit chat and the ghosts of classroom TV = before Fool or Bongo or someone with a brain for this stuff jumps on here and removes the opportunity for guess work,,,,,, I am gonna guess that the Diodes Fool is referring to are those things that are Blue and White in color.. Reason being,,, I think I can see just below that one Blue and White thingy some print on the circuit board that says D13.. I am gonna guess this means Diode #13 .. Noticing that other things start with and "R" that could mean resistor,, or "C" that could mean capacitor... Thats my guess,,, Blue and White - sort of little round fishing bobber looking things on a sea of green.. Puc

Tapping dont work,,, I like the smackin em with a big ol honkin rubber mallet myself.. Personally I like to leave the caliper bolts in as they may somewhat protect rotors from getting bent should I need to go to a more advance form of smackin in a second stage smack.. For second stage I like to use a hunk of 4x4 against the protrusion on the caliper where the piston would be and a 5 pounder at about 1/2 throttle,, smack,,, SMACK.. I usually open the bleeders too to reduce the chances of fighting hydraulic pressure.. Good smack and they will come loose.. Now frozen brakes in drum,, actually had a set of them puppies I ended up having to cut open = talk about a mess.. I like Carl's idea but cha know what,,, it's amazing how good just brake fluid will also penatrate that stuff too if ya dont have the fixin's Carl's talking about...

@ragtop69gs ,, Raggy,,, ,,, I showed those pics of your new coach to Tippy,, after a moment of and she did a double take and said,, "wait a minute here,, Jay and Jeannie are the ones that bought that motorcycle tent camper from us aren't they?" = "why yes honey,, they are" = "if I would have known THAT was inside that little trailer I would have never agreed to selling it :Laugh:"

INDEED!! You sure shook us MD attenders up with that one brother!!! BUNCH of folks thinking of and praying for ya (see this link = http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?104022-To-Yammer-Dan-From-VR-family-who-attended-Freebird-s-MD-we-love-brother!!&highlight=yammer We were all very thankful and glad to hear you were gonna make it - wowzy,, THAT was a tough one!!

GnV = love the Bugle brother!! THAT is wayyy cool!! THANKS for the pics!! Any markings on it that you can share?? Sorry for the hi-jack!!