cowpuc

I agree, there is LOTS about this new one that makes no logical sense.. First and foremost IMHO is the elephant in the room that most if not all of us here in the club have, like you Geo, questioned = why no V-Max motor. Fact is, one does not have to lolly gag around our clubhouse here to much to find the lists that each of us made in pointing out what we were hoping for and, if one did this, one would find that almost exclusively we all asked for water cooled, V-Max motored, shaft drive.. IMHO,, as a group, we did not get even close to what we were looking for = does this matter? Obviously to some of us in the club, it matters BUT, to a company like Yamaha that is looking at profitability = I think a glance at the size of our group as apposed to the size of other groups that they may see purchasing their product is what matters to them (as it should be). I also have a theory that Mom Yam adjusted her sights in the process of producing the new Venture. When they p hit the magic button(s) on em out at Americade during the unveiling and I heard the familiar tone of a Strat 113 inch V-Twin my first words were = "OHH POOP" cause I knew we had been had.. My very first words when I first saw one as they pulled them up on the stage was "It's a Polaris Victory".. After we got home I spent some time shadowing other club's on the net and guess what,,, the gang over on the Victory site were wayyy more excited about the new Venture than even our club (IMHO). As a matter of fact, I even read several posts from members over there that openly stated they saw Victory blood in the new Venture too.. From all of that, and from some of the possible design flaws that I see (all but the bottom two "vents" on the non removeable lowers on the Venture are FAKE = keeping air flow away from an air cooled motor?) - I actually wonder if part way thru the design process, Mom Yam caught wind of Polaris's plan on dumping Victory and somehow thought (and maybe this will happen) by switching over to developing an air cooled touring bike may bring in those Victory riders scorned by Polaris (I even told Tippy at the time that I thought maybe Arlen Ness or another Victory design engineer had jumped ship and landed at Yamaha). If you look closely at the fairing/front end of the scoot it is clear (IMHO) that the design was intended for a water cooled motor and, it's looks from the front SCREAM = BAD TO THE BONE V-MAX!! I think Mom Yam was on the right track and then something happened because when you walk around the fairing and sit down, everything behind the fairing screams something different and I think it screams Polaris.. Even the dash and bar layout has a Polaris feel to it,, as does the seating position and floor board placement.. What I am trying to say, I think, is the bike seem's confused about what it really is in its design. I honestly think the whole package is a shot in the dark to bring in as many over looked air cooled heavy bike customers (over looked by Harley, Polaris) as possible while also drawing in a few faithful Venture riders just by using the Venture name.. I think it's a numbers game and that the numbers to support what we were hoping for here in our club just were not large enough to support building what we were asking for.. Personally I hope it works for Mom Yam - I really do. I hope that people trip over themselves to join the ranks of exclusiveness offered in the new Venture ($575 rear tire = now THATS exclusiveness). If that happened it would mean that someone, FINALLY figured out the combination to the lock on the mystery behind Harley Davidson's ability to sell so many bling covered 1903 air cooled V-Twin designed motorcycles that they maintain ownership of over 50% of the heavy bike market. On the same token though,, I have a hunch that it's a fool's errand though and I base part of that on the fact that the reason Polaris dropped Victory was because they didnt sell and I also know that the they are having a pretty hard time with sales in the their new Indian line too (TON'S of left overs offered CHEAP right now for both Polaris Indian's and Victory's = GREAT time to grab one!). Indeed Geo,, I stand shoulder to shoulder with you and join you in wondering why on God's green earth Mom Yam did that... I would like to know too,, I really really would!!

Touch that probe lead on 12v and it will go out. If your running a battery without the probe port and want to permanently turn off that little red flashing light without using a hunk of black tape on your dash (personally I like the tape idea Snype, have used it many times LOL) it's best to put a resistor in between the lead and the 12v source (BATTERY + TERMINAL or other) to protect the circuit but I have ran a long while without one and not had issues but it is risky..

I LOVE this thread and am one of those who you mention may someday benefit from all this Geo.. That said,, and in the spirit of campfire chit chat and the ghosts of classroom TV = before Fool or Bongo or someone with a brain for this stuff jumps on here and removes the opportunity for guess work,,,,,, I am gonna guess that the Diodes Fool is referring to are those things that are Blue and White in color.. Reason being,,, I think I can see just below that one Blue and White thingy some print on the circuit board that says D13.. I am gonna guess this means Diode #13 .. Noticing that other things start with and "R" that could mean resistor,, or "C" that could mean capacitor... Thats my guess,,, Blue and White - sort of little round fishing bobber looking things on a sea of green.. Puc

Tapping dont work,,, I like the smackin em with a big ol honkin rubber mallet myself.. Personally I like to leave the caliper bolts in as they may somewhat protect rotors from getting bent should I need to go to a more advance form of smackin in a second stage smack.. For second stage I like to use a hunk of 4x4 against the protrusion on the caliper where the piston would be and a 5 pounder at about 1/2 throttle,, smack,,, SMACK.. I usually open the bleeders too to reduce the chances of fighting hydraulic pressure.. Good smack and they will come loose.. Now frozen brakes in drum,, actually had a set of them puppies I ended up having to cut open = talk about a mess.. I like Carl's idea but cha know what,,, it's amazing how good just brake fluid will also penatrate that stuff too if ya dont have the fixin's Carl's talking about...

@ragtop69gs ,, Raggy,,, ,,, I showed those pics of your new coach to Tippy,, after a moment of and she did a double take and said,, "wait a minute here,, Jay and Jeannie are the ones that bought that motorcycle tent camper from us aren't they?" = "why yes honey,, they are" = "if I would have known THAT was inside that little trailer I would have never agreed to selling it :Laugh:"

INDEED!! You sure shook us MD attenders up with that one brother!!! BUNCH of folks thinking of and praying for ya (see this link = http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?104022-To-Yammer-Dan-From-VR-family-who-attended-Freebird-s-MD-we-love-brother!!&highlight=yammer We were all very thankful and glad to hear you were gonna make it - wowzy,, THAT was a tough one!!

GnV = love the Bugle brother!! THAT is wayyy cool!! THANKS for the pics!! Any markings on it that you can share?? Sorry for the hi-jack!!

:sign yeah that: +1 :sign yeah that: and,, cleanliness,, scrub a dub dub = wire brush clean,,, like welding,, clean metal means good weld... Nothing purdier than a really pretty slobber job and nothing uglier than a messy one IMHO..

Hi CP,,, sorry to read about your frustrations here but I can certainly relate = these puppies can be finicky to say the least BUT - with just a little bit of tender finness - they will usually slide apart without to much time utilizing the 5 pound beater.. Looking at you pic of the broken carb part and going strickly from memory here,, to me it looks like you were attempting to remove the carb bank with the throttle cables still intact?? If this is so,, I have successfully taken a whole different to the carb bank removal.. What I do is unhook the choke cable from its link and move it aside. Lift the carb assembly up out of the intake manifolds and then back the throttle cable adjusters both up top and down below all the way back, then unhook the return cable at the throttle body and pull it out, now you can pull the pull cable up and outward to lay it down enough to slide the carb bank outside of the frame rail to the left side (same side as the choke cable attaches). Once out of the frame and with the carb setting upright with the choke side facing downward - you can know remove the pull cable from its guide in between the carbs and the carbs will be free.. I have been in your situation many times in my career of dealing with old scoots and totally understand your concerns about putting cold hard cash into something that you really truly have no clue whether or not your dealing with something that is just gonna end up as parts.. Here is thought and probably something along the line of what I would have done/would do if you handed me the bike at this time.. I would probably slide the carbs back in the intakes. I would disconnect the fuel pump at the harness so it was inoperatable. Pull the plugs, spin er up a couple times to make sure I didnt have a hydro lock potential. Check oil for gas contamination. Check oil and anti freeze levels. Spin er up a few times to encourage pre lube by oil pump. I would pull the slides on the carbs, patch up any torn diaphrams best I could with YamaBond and set em aside to cure. Drain the carbs, get a syringe from an ag store, fill syringe with gas and inject into float bowl drain until I saw fuel coming out metering rod hole and close drain - note how much fuel I injected to get slight fuel flow from metering rod hole. Inject the determined amount into each carb so all carbs are now loaded = Do all four carbs. Replace carb slides/diaphrams = make sure slides slide effortlessly - clean slides and carb bodies if slides are sticky. Pick up a set of NGK D8ES plugs, gap em to 32 thou, unscrew the plug caps from the wires, clip a 1/4 inch off each plug wire and screw it back on, put plugs in and wires on. Choke carbs with either choke lever of rag stuffed across carbs to prime er up and see if she will fire.. Should run till carbs go dry.. Repeat to warm up to see if she's hitting on four, spit checking headers as you work to determine if it is. Should run a good while with all bowls full from injection - by doing the injection and not hooking up pump you are controlling bowl levels = make sense? If she is hittin on all four and/or I wanted to do more testing - I would just refill the carbs thru the drains with the syringe using the predetermined amount of fuel injected from the syringe and closing the drains when full again.. Take the bull by the horns = make it go! If it doesnt come up on four or refuses to fire at all (make sure kill switch is on), I would look down carbs and see if any fuel was being pulled in.. If obvious carbs were plugged solid I would put gas in a spray bottle = spray 5 times into each carb throat and hit starter = see if it will fire.. Remember the early years of high school mechanics,, internal combustion engines needs three things to run = compression, fuel/air mix, spark.. I would chase it till I got to hear it run on all four, at least momentarily and consistently BEFORE I started dumping cash into it = IMHO of course.. I am not sure but I think that broken part on your carb bank is actually replaceable,, not sure why but I just got a gut feeling it is..

:sign yeah that: IMHO, the reason they have such low HP ratings is because of design, especially if walking into big inch country where accumulation of bore/stroke is only being spread between 2 cylinders so the Cubic Inches are totally dependent on those two parameters (bore/stroke).. The longer the stroke the more distance there is for a piston to travel at any given RPM.. The longer the distance (stroke) the faster the piston has to travel in order to complete a revolution of the crank (RPM). The faster the piston has to travel the closer it gets to terminal velocity (still think that is around 4500 feet per second or something like that).. Terminal Velocity (where the pistons come unglued) is an absolute. Another absolute is found on all dyno graphs of internal combustion engines.. Another fact there is that all engines have a point where HP = Torque and that is somewhere around 5 grand (just over if memory serves me correctly).. Therefore, if a motor is a long stroken v-twin that is rev limited at 5 grand or below the HP rating is going to show low - not something most manufactures want to advertise.. In order to see larger HP ya HAVE to spin em above 5 grand as that is the beginning point of HP to brag about = this zone is deadly for big twins IMHO... Close ratio gearing (like in a semi) and low rpm's, shifting a lot to get her rolling and idle down the highway at 2 grand and 80 mph though.. Potato potato potato till the corn grows but, if your looking for performance in the way of grin bustin get up and go,, aint gonna happen, for any long distance anyway and then

Indeed,, that video is down right discussting.. What are doing to each other,, how sad - we have come to a point in human history where even the life of little squirrel crossing the road or a pet mouse is more important than our human brothers.... Crazyness,, shear insanity!! On a lighter note but still on the same thought track,, I had an open discussion about the move toward advanced Info System stuff on the newer scoots with a factory rep at Sturgis = pertaining to the new Venture.. Part of that discussion centered around my old school thoughts that them touch screen video game things on the new bikes (which is now a HUGE sell point) have no business on a motorcycle where,, once again - IMHO, a rider who looks down for even a split second to touch a screen is taking his life in his own hands AND endangering innocent bystanders should he do so at the wrong .001 of a second in time.. Factory rep's reply?? "times have changed, modern day bikers have grown up with this stuff and they are completely capible of handling this awesome technology".. Seeing this I once again wonder just how much times have really changed.. Prayers Up for that young man and Praise God he survived!!! Puc

I dont know you guys,, gonna sound like Pt 4 of a Grumpy Old Man movie but think I will say it anyway.. Fact is,, I think Ty,, like all the rest of us, needs to examine closely what exactly he is trying to obtain thru this experience. I know from personal experience that wants, needs, desires and all that change over time. Case in point,, my next door neighbor had a gorgeous 1500 carborated Wing that he purchased from his brother in law to help him out.. Bike was extremly low mileage for an 89 = under 25k and just beautiful.. One day my neighbor, who hadnt ridden in years decided he and his wife were gonna go CTFW with Tip and I for an afternoon and off we went.. Not to far into the trip and he/we discovered that, because of sitting for a while, the Wing had developed a nasty dead spot when taking off from a corner.. No problembo I says,, you and I will pull the carbs and clean em (thinkin old school Wing).. After looking closer at the Wing design I/we found out that Honda decided to go to a 2 barrel carb buried between the frame spars that someone who's hands were in much better shape than mine would have to dismantle = couldnt even get a screw driver between the carb and frame hardley, talk about tight.. A later trip to a Honda shop/mechanic to clean the carb resulted in a 1250 dollar bill.. After getting that resolved the bike sat for another 6 months with only an occasional start up just to keep things operating. When asked why, my neighbor said it was just to much bike for he and his wife, she simply could no longer tolerate sitting on a bike saddle for more than 1/2 hour a day - MAX.. They sold the thing this spring at a major loss and picked up a little Motor Home to do their CTFW(S) on.. Thinking out loud here Ty,, maybe do a little soul searching about exactly what it is that you. personally, are trying to accomplish here.. You wanna ride and tinker on an old scoot that every seal, bearing, wire connection and moveable part as well as stationary part is over 30 years old? We are here for you if that is the case.. You got a ton of cash and wanna turn to labor costs of 100 bucks an hour and beyond = lots of wealthy folks do just that and I tip my hat to em. You do that and you will be just as welcome here as any one... You decide to bail on the project,, take loss,, pick up a smaller, newer, V-Twin Honda Shadow or one of those Honda 800 Pacific Coast things that look like they would run forever and just jump on and go = yep,, still 100% welcome here and still to all and any VR Event or rally.. Shoot,, pick up a new left over Yamaha big scooter,, no shifting, easy to mount cause its step thru and head to the Sturgis Rally after doing one of our Maintenance Days - I would be glad to camp next to ya and wouldn't feel at all uneasy about cruising next to ya on a good all day CTFW.. Just a simple matter of figuring out what is gonna make you happy and fulfilled in your CTFW experience.. All that said Ty,, dont think I ever did hear whether or not your thinking of touring 2 up once ya get a bike where ya want it? That alone could make a big difference in the deciding here IMHO.. Toss another person on there and yea,, you are pretty much gonna find the need for a full blown touring scoot in your man cave.. I will say this,, from my perspective,, bikes are a lot like the people that ride em,, the older they get the more inclined to need maintenance in area's that one would not even think maintenance should be needed.. Hmm,, that was kind of profound = kind of sorta?

You are more than welcome Bay, always happy to yak scoots my friend.. Following up on your reply,, IMHO, the new one has no more motor than your 2nd Gen - matter of fact, if its performance we are referring too? In any category your 2nd Gen is gonna put a strong whooping on it - speaking from seat of the pants IMHO experience. Quite frankly,, Mom Yam screwed up by chasing the Motor Company on their terms. If your thoughts are on an air cooled V-Twin touring bike that has been massaged to aquire its potential performance because you just love the V-Twin and want to spend the big bucks - I would hop right down to the Harley shop and get the real deal.. On the same token though,, I know exactly what your talking about concerning the Raider S!! GORGEOUS scoot and, because of those bikes never sold for (like Mom Yam is trying to do with the new Venture) or realised the resale value of the comparable HD Dyna line, you can find really really nice scoots for bottom dollar if ya shop = good value IMHO.. Another thing to note about the Raider compared to the new Venture = the new one is way neutered (I still contend this is the result of hanging a bunch of xtra weight on the crank and extreme hp to wieght ration differences) compared to a stock Raider.. Gonna go out on a limb and say 20% or more loss stock for stock for stock, saddle for saddle.. I would go with keeping the RSV and landing a Raider if it were me.. Mann,, why did Mom Yam do that,, she really coulda turned the touring world upside down if she woulda just listened to us club members.. Just thinking out loud here,, ya know,, another thought you might consider.. If ya no longer got a passenger and gonna be rippin 1 up,, maybe figure out a way to Bagger your RSV.. Look into a docking plate to make it snap off and on (like HD offers for their Ultra's) = instant cruiser and wayyy cool IMHO..

I have had em both ways thru the years Fool and have found the difference to be negligitable - keep in mind, I form this opinion from an exclusive back ground in single pistoned, undersized rotored 1st Gen MK1's though = you know the ones,, the ones that squeezing that front brake lever or pushing on that rear brake lever acutally acts like an excellerant IMHO,, a LOT more needs to be done with those brakes than a delink = fork swap, R1 Calipers yada dee yada dee.. Sort of why I mentioned wishing Mom Yam would have kicked that linked brake engineer to the curb and hired those R1 brake guys in the first place For the sake of anyone reading this,,, delinking is not as easy as just unhooking a hose, plugging one and hooking up to another.. It involves locating a larger capacity master/resivor up top and some tinkering.. It does help though, IMHO, even on the MK1's.. This new one I am riding has braided stainless cables on it and still linked up. Having now owned both upgrades = I think just the braided lines acutally helps more in making consistant smooth stopping power.. If I ever refind any form of my yesteryears motovation I may do another delink on this one just to see what having both presents..

I got a set of gauges and have synced 1st Gens a couple times.. Have only done one 2nd Gen (wassup @mirider ) but, as I recall,, I didnt mess that one up to bad.. Would be more than happy to help you out if ya wanna climb on your scoot and buzz over to the west side Wingzz.. No idea what @MiCarl 's shop charges to sync carbs or, even if they do them (my money would be on them offering this service though) but it may be cost effective and in your best interest to just go ahead and pay for this service even if it's just to get shown how to do it.. Another thought would be to wait till our club President puts on another one of his MD's down in Oberlin Ohio.. I gotta hunch you are actually closer to his place then mine over here on the Lake Michigan shoreline.. Get your carbs syncyed down yonder by some real guru's and meet a bunch of really great club members in the process,, 2 birds - one stone so to speak!!

Heyyy ya lop eared gravy covered french fry munchin varmint = thanks for the compliment on the vid!!! As a continuance into Puc 1st Gen Theorization,, I theorize that the right side brake that is soley activated by the lever up on the right bar does, in theory, have a Metering Valve = the finger tips on the riders right hand.. Thinking that because it's singularly controlled it is left up to the rider to apply the amount of pressure he wants applied to that side Jack, even to the point of being able to lock the front brake up in a panic stop if he is not careful. That potential (acutally locking up the front brake) would defintitly not be a good thing and even more dangerous if both front and back locked up at the same time.. I have a hunch that this is one of the main purposes of that metering valve = the rider can ram on the rearas hard as he wants and, even though he may lock the rear = locking the front will not happen because the metering valve is controlling the pressure = Puc Theory applied,, Wanna hear some more of my theorizationing as long as we are sitting here roasting hot dogs over this campfire? Thought ya would :Im not listening toso,,,,, I have this intrensic notion that :Im not listening toMom Yam went to all that advanced linking of the brakes business with the proportioning valves and metering valves nonsense (I am way old school = I still think that it should be left up to the actual rider of the scoot to develop his riding skills to the point that he should know how much pressure to put on his brakes and which brakes to apply for any given circumstance he encounters = I may be unrealisically more personally responsibility orienated = way old school) before realising that the design she had chosen for just the base braking system on these 1st Gens was far from being adequate.. Personally, I have forever wished she would have totally scrapped the whole linking idea, fired the engineer who came up with the goofy thing and hired a couple more GP Moto guys (R1 sport bike people) with REAL braking experience to have put some REAL stopping power at my finger tips and at the end of my toes and leave the decision of how, when, why up to yours truly:322:.. But what do I know

Having never actually owned either of the two (so ya may wanna take this with a grain of salt till a real 113 inch Yam V-Twin guru steps up with exact info) but having some experience with my nephews Strat (same motor as the Raider) and now having seen the guts of the new one first hand (see vids below) I would say the base engine cases/blocks are going to prohibit a swap without some form of frame/mounting alterations as well as swing arm mods.. The new one has an xtra gear, an xtra alternator, an xtra balance shaft making its bottom end completely different from my perspective. It is also a right hand drive (meaning the belt that drives the rear pulley is on the opposite side of the Raiders which is on the riders left side as he is riding his scoot) so mods to the swing arm assembly would probably have to be done. Looking at the new ones internal components (and some top end external parts too (like push rod tubes) I do believe that Mom Yam chose to share numerous parts between the two though = 4 valve head, rods, pistons, push rods, cam chest parts ect.. Hope this helps in some small way.. Puc

Randy could you check and see if that link is still valid? For some reason, I keep getting a "timed out" message when I click on it.. I did go over to Miata.net and tried to find it there too but to no avail.. Thanks brother!!

Metering Valve a Proportioning Valve = oopppsss... In answer to a sigh of confusion (totally my fault) by one of our fellow club members about a recent video I made concerning bleeding the rear brake system from up on the neck of a 1st Gen Venture = this next video installment is a feeble attempt at clarity on my behalf.. Hope someone out there (reading this @Condor ?) gets some follow up use out of it,, or,, at a minimum - even it doesnt clarify what I hope it clarifies,, a sneak peek at whats under the right hand side of the rearward fairing half on a 1st Gen Venture!!

x70!!!!!!!!!! EVAN!!!!

,,,, ,,, ,,, Raggy,, are you absolutely - positively sure your 2nd Gen can safely pull that??? ,,, I KNOW = your getting a new Venture arent cha? This may be one of those applications where the high torque of the new one will really shine!!! WOWZY WOW WOW WOWZY WOW WOW WOW = she is a BEAUTY brother!! to you and that lovely bride of yours as you seek out new adventure and fun in your new coach my friend!! BEAUTIFUL = JUST FLAT OUT BEAUTIFUL!!

I took a couple pieces of thin wall galvanized chain line fence posts one time.. Cut em to length,brazed a couple hangers on em to mount where the original pipes mounted. Filled em with sand and bent em over a log just enough that they hung properly on my 1st Gen. Cut slots in the end of the pipes where it mounted to the collector outlets so I could squeeze em down with a clamp. Took a couple pieces of scrap sheet metal I got from our recycling place and used a variety of Tippies tupperware bowls as a pattern to draw out some fairly good sized fish tails to weld onto the ends of the pipes that I had dinged in on the pavement with my sledge hammer to flatten em out some so I could weld on the fishtail halves.. Welded and ground and welded some more and came out with a really cool set of tunable (by squeezing the fish tail sides and bending them together) straight pipes that sounded flat out AWESOME!! Painted em up with that Charcoal flat black heat paint and got many really good compliments on em.. Whole nuther story but I also had a passing light bar off a Honda Shadow on that one too.. Not sure if I can find any pics of that ol girl,, been a good while.. I do know one thing,, it sounded similar to Crud, my V-Max (bad to the bone IMHO) with his Supertrapps and those noise loving HD varmints at Sturgis LOVED the sound.. Been a good number of years ago since all that went on.. No idea if I can find any pics (will look) but here is sort of what it sounded like:

Hey Cruise,,, is your posted scoot in our clubs classifieds?? If not,, it should be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nice bike = GOOD DEAL IMHO!! Another point in comparing to the 36,000 dollar Indian (I still find those kind of numbers even hard to type ) is that I have a sneaking hunch that just for the difference between 36k and the real out the door cost of that 36k scoot, a person could probably buy your bike, plus put insurance and plates on it and still enough cash left over that he could go out and CTFW for a good long ways for free!!!!!

IMHO,, depending on the application I totally agree with you.. Gonna drag 40 ton of Iron up a mountain = HP is wayyyy over rated... On the other hand though,,, wanna do 170 mph and be in danger of getting body slammed if your not careful how hard ya wick er up when running er thru the gears = HP is farrr from over rated .. Personally I still wish Mom Yam would of taken that 1700cc V-max motor and,,,,, ahh,, never mind,,, I am gettin to old for any of it anyway...