cowpuc

A good friend of mine recently asked for my back yard mechanical level opinionated opinion as to where I would start if I was going to attempt to revive a Venture that had been sitting for almost 30 years.. Of course, my first response was = !!!!!!!!!!!! Then,, I looked down at my twisted up old fingers and how not fun it is to type these days and, how much fun and easier making videos and posting them on You Tube has become for me so,,, after reading thru the things he had already covered in his inquiry to me - I stepped out into my professional video studio and produced the response below... Shady,, I hope you find something in here that is helpful. If any of you other lop eared wrench spinning varmints got suggestions for bringing one of our own back to life on the open road = please feel free to jump in here with suggestions of your very own,, or correct mine, or make some kind of a combination thereof... Bottom line,, LET THE GOOD TIMES ROLL BROTHERS and SISTERS!!!!

Why is it I am shocked that you didnt say something about encouraging DragonSlayer not to eat Yellow Wisconsin White Wash? Why is it that I think you may have not said that cause you didnt want to give Fool any idea's for adding food coloring to his messiness... Why did summer have to go away,, I miss her soooo much... Whyyyy,, ohh why did she have to leave and go away,, WHY???

HOLY SPAMOLY,, SLIPPERY THINGS OF ALL THE WORSE KIND BATMAN!! Is that what I think that is Snype?? Tip would have been heard screaming from 15 miles away if that is a SNAKE!! She HATES snakes!! Any idea what brand it is? WOWZY = what a SURPRISE!!! Short story while your washing your under garments,,,,, Years ago I got a customer who wants to walk out in the barn out back of my shop into my motorcycle junk yard and look for parts... I walk out with him, turn on the lights and walk over to a couple parts frames.. He is bent over looking at an intake on a Honda 125 that he is looking for when I notice a snake curled up on the handlebars on the bike sitting next to the bike he is looking at. The little forked tonge on the snake that kept flipping out was about 4 inches from the guys ear when I asked him if he was afraid of snakes.. He turned his head toward me away from the snake, looked me right in the eyes and said "why?".. I pointed at the snake and before I could move my hand back down by my side, my customer was out the barn door and pulling out of my driveway in his truck... Guess his fear of snakes was greater then his need of a Honda 125 intake... By the way,, that looks like an Orkin sticky board mouse trap? Did you know that snakes are better mouse catchers then Orkin sticky boards

INDEED MY BROTHER = INDEED!! Another crazy point that, for some reason (IMHO) is getting totally overlooked here is price point for what each perspective manufacturer is trying to obtain for the "work" they have done.. Looking at RnD costs = I just cant see where falling backwards into lesser designs like belt n pulley drive compared to shaft drive or air cooled/push rod motors compared to state of the art water cooled motors could/should demand matching MSRP sell point. I know,, its just a matter of opinion (time will tell because people speak with their wallets) but I think the Yam is a $17,000 bike if the Honda is a $27,000 bike. The other shame, IMHO, is that Mom Yam has just as much going for it as Honda does with endless possibilities right at their finger tips.. Simply detuning that V-Max motor and then boosting it to recover it's potential Torq/HP while increasing MPG in a full blown touring bike would have definitely made it a worthy high dollar scoot and,,, a REAL game changer! I know I shouldn't do this cause it may sound like I am anti-Yamaha or something (and I am not,, I LOVE Yamaha's) but I am gonna say it anyway.. If I had to predict anything,, considering the condition that The MOCO just reported for their 3rd quarter and knowing now that Mom Yam chose to follow them as a competitor,,,, I am gonna predict that this new Honda turns into a really decent seller for Honda = not stellar as days of yesteryear cause I dont think the over all buyers are still around but I do think they are in good shape from what I am seeing in their release.. I think Mom Yam is in trouble with their new one and, just as Polaris found with their Victory (keeping in mind that the Victories even had a much lower sell point then the new Venture), the target market they sought is just to small. I say that because I have been watching a wide variety of forums responding to the new Yam and it seems like the Victory forums have the highest support and most chatter going on about the new Yam = in some ways, even more then the Yamaha/Star forums AND, remembering why Polaris shut down Victory (because the brand just did not sell) - that is NOT a positive thing IMHO..

One of the HUGE things that just made/makes no sense to me on the new Venture is the fact that the "Lowers" are NOT removeable (they house a huge variety of devices that are not removeable) and,, get this,, only the very bottom two little grill openings on each side are actually functionable = meaning, no air can possibly get thru the upper 95 percent of the lower on either side.. I have said it before,,, its almost like the intent of that frame mounted fairing was for use on a water cooled bike with a radiator mounted between the two lowers. I seen it, rode it, smelled it, tasted it, videoed it and even went back for a second day of testing it and I still, to this day,, still dont get it.....

Well,,, RATSSSSSSSSS!! I was sure hoping and praying this whole thing was settled Ready!! Sorry to read this.. Having never been thru such a thing I really have no clue on how to advise but Tip and I want you folks to know we will continue to pray for you!!! One thing I do know,, life can certainly throw us some curve balls but with God - all things are possible! Stay strong brother and sister!!

WOWZY I like how you think Ty!!!! Mom Honda,, if your reading this and like the way this guy thinks too,,,, I just asked my wife/best friend and touring buddy = "Tippy" and she gave the for us to volunteer to be the first inline "Pony Express" riders to do the first coast to coast and back again at the beginning of the summer of '18... Please put our names at the top of the list if you decide to go forward with this TOTALLY doable plan!!!

OUTSTANDING SILV!!!!:clap2: You two lop eared CTFW(S) cross country full time touring varmints make that Road Master look GREAT!!! Thanks for the beautiful pic and for sharing some road time stories with us!! WELL DONE!! As far as the bike goes,, I could not agree with you more!! Tip and I found exactly the same thing.. Not to be a CTFW spoiler cause I KNOW your demo days on scoots and reporting on them is farrrr from over but this is how that heat issue stacked up for us.. Hottest of the hottest = Indian, seconded by Yam Venture, 3rd was HD and 4th = Victory.. May also sound really strange but, bar none = Vision handling was amazing (nicked named the one I spent a bunch of time on "the weeble" as in = the weeble may wobble but it WONT fall down). I really really do like what Polaris did with the design on that Indian though.. I like how they put forth a HUGE effort in keeping the nostilgia look with the flat head scheme and full fenders.. Lots and lots of folks dont like it but I, for one, have always been partial to them. Personally, I like the original Red color though.. You check out prices? Thinking you folks are setting on a $32,000 scoot there?? Still makes me stutter to even think that kind of dollar... WOWZY - freezing here!! Saw our first snow flake this morning (THANKS A LOT @Flyinfool ) - Silv, that pic actually warmed our hearts - KEEP EM COMING BROTHER and keep having fun out there!!!

We had some of these given to us for attending the VR International out at The Dalles in Oregon back in '14.. I don't use ear plugs but Tippy absolutely LOVES these!! They are not the type that squeeze down and go into the ear canal = they sit side ways in the ear = she NEVER rides without them, has never had a problem with em coming out if wearing a helmet and, according to her = nothing filters out wind noise like these things!! That said = they come highly endorsed from someone who spends a LOT of time in the passenger seat where wind buffeting can be the worst!! **** Special thanks to those responsible for getting those ear plugs donated to our cause = your work is still GREATLY appreciated!! Tip, Tweeks and Puc:7_2_104[1]:

Been thinking for some time now that things seem like they are slowing wayyy down in our industry.. The big rally out at Sturgis hasn't been "normal" with traffic backed up out on "90" waiting to get into town for a good while and it just seems like even the smaller rally's and events (like those of our own club's) have been low in attendance.. One of the things I always noticed about our Industry is how, IMHO, when the benchmark share holder = The Motor Company, is slow - it seems like the rest of the Market follows suite. As I read thru this recent report I kept wondering how the other American company, Polaris, was doing during this current down turn. An interesting being made in this article was that they (Polaris) have began discounting their inventory - something that HD trys not to do to protect the value of their product (IMHO). Anyway,, VERY INTERESTING read if your into scoots and the industry they represent. Take a peek and speak what ya think or,, hit the Poll for a response (feel free to choose as many responses there as you think apply) or,, do both or do neither. Here is the article for your reading pleasure: https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/harley-davidson-is-even-worse-off-than-you-might-think/ar-AAu1iqD?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

WHY?? or,,, WHY NOT?

Me too Bex = ME TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bikersmilie:

Hi Papa = 1st things 1st = :group cheers: to the club!!!!! I have never owned a 2nd Gen Venture like I assume you are speaking of.. I only say that cause I think Yamaha also made Midnight Roadies (V-Twins) too but, thinking you probably have a V-4 Venture? I will proceed. As far as I know, all the Yamaha V-4's were "wired" the same internally at the stator. They also share in the clutch slave mounting and I have dealt with both, numorous times on my 1st Gen Ventures.. Coming out of and across the area right in the way of removing that clutch slave are the three stator wires that feed the electrical system in your bike = these three wires are probably white and will be alone in their own harness. There are other wires crossing in the same area coming from the stator but they are not related to the charging system. On the 1st Gens, the three wires that I am speaking about have a harness terminal about half way up the frame spar on the left hand side under the plastic side cover. I know that you bike does not have that cover and I am almost sure there is also no terminal there like I am refering to. I also know that the regulator on your bike has been moved forward to, I believe, right below the radiator.. I think I would look there for the terminal I am speaking of.. If it were mine, I would disconnect that three wire terminal and ohm out (test with an ohm meter) the three white wires leading back to the stator as my first diagnoses.. The test I am speaking of is a "normal" test for checking the condition of your stator. It is possible that you damaged one of those wires in the process of changing the slave and that is where your charging problem resides.. Navigating the site is fairly simple. If you go above on this page and notice the line that says "forum", "tech talk", second gen tech talk and then click on "forum" this will take you right to the lists of thread area that you can choose from.. If you scroll down that list you will see this thread area (Second Gen Tech Talk) = keep scrolling down and you will see our clubs READ ONLY library. There will be a thread area in that forum that will say "Second Gen" in its title = click on that and BINGO - endless advice!! OR,, if you want to you can click here on this and it will take you there: http://www.venturerider.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?14-Second-Gen-and-Royal-Star-Technical-Library-READ-ONLY! Also, in that list of forum areas you will see "The Water Hole". This is where a lot of us lop eared varmints hang out and cause trouble.. Please stop by in there and say hi!! Puc

Hi PW and to VR!!! Now to answering your questions from, as my buddy FlyinFool would put it,, one person's perspective: A1: There is one defect that has caused the second gear issue with all pre mid 1985 and prior Ventures. It is/was a soft thrust washer and thrust washer plate. As these parts wear they allow the 2nd Gear engagement dogs to,,, wait a second,, I just posted the pics up of what exactly is going on in another thread. I am going to repost those pics here for your enjoyment to complete my answer for you. You will find them below! A2: Yes, it is that simple. It is not quite what I would call shifting thru (just trying to make it clear for any one else reading this thread - I am sure you dont need this further explaination). I call it "short shifting". What I have personally done sucessfully with all my Ventures starting as far back as 1987 is shifting from 1st to second and then shifting again from 2nd to 3rd without engaging the clutch when I hit second. Just note - there is no "trick" shifting method going on, no going directly to 3rd from 1st = trannies are not built to do this. Ya still gotta go thru the action of shifting into second with your toe, releasing the shifter at second and then hitting it again to go into 3rd. It's not hard and these bikes pull hard enough that drag racing from a dead stop and putting a major whoopin on air cooled big twin scoots almost twice the Cubic Inch is still very easy once ya get the technique down pat. A3: I definitely can tell you what you will hear and feel as the 2nd goes south. All be well and normal as the soft thrust washer loses tolerance until one day, you will go into second gear and you will feel and here a slight "clunk clunk" as the dogs slip across the faces of their mating surface. It's all down hill from there as the "clunk clunk" will become more the norm than the occasion.. A short time later, in my experience = within 2k miles, and the sound will go from "clunk clunk" to a pretty good GRIND sound as you rev in 2nd and make no forward motion. On two of my scoots I tried, unsuccessfully, to save my 2nd gear for only occasions where I would need it once it started to go.. This does not work as it is NOT the gear face or the gear dogs themselves that are creating the real issue (although - the dogs do take the punishment) - because its hardness (or lack thereof) of the washer and plate that is the issue = there is nothing you can do to accumulate or save 2nd gear for later useage. If you shift thru 2nd gear like I talk about in A2 you will notice no more noise then a normal tranny.. Matter of fact, I have put many thousands of miles of smiles on these bikes with no second gear, in countless applications from drag racing them to 2 up mountain touring to riding in groups of bikes that were hundreds of bikes in attendance and, unless I had told someone = no one would even know that my bike had no 2nd gear. A4: Because I am one cheap, underhanded and low life lop eared biker varmint who really has very little interest in putting large amounts of $$ into 2 wheels and a motor BUT I still LOVE touring long distances with family/friends in tow = I have actually made a touring career out of doing exactly what you are suggesting here. Unlike in my business practice when I owned my bike shop where I "bought low, added value, sold high" = when it came to these 2nd gearless Ventures I sought out "Buy low = very low", value added by getting them running again if they had been sitting for a long time but NEVER fixed the real problem (which was the very reason why I got em low in the first place) and made my profits on them by riding them out for the next 200k plus without fixing em. As far as staying far away from one with the 2nd gear issue,, and again = consider the source on this answer, no way = I actually went hunting them every time I finished wearing one out!! A5: While I cant speak specifically to this answer cause I have personally never repaired a Venture 2nd gear, I do have to say that I was very very blessed by some dear friends of mine (@Carbon_One and his wonderful wife, Joyce) who offered us our latest 83 1st Gen = WITH REPAIRED 2ND GEAR at a very very special deal (THANK YOU AGAIN LARRY!!!). This one, being our 6th one, is the ONLY one I have ever had that had a second gear and WOWZY is it FUN!! Nailing second on a speed shift and lofting the front end with NO FEAR is,, well,, is extremely special.. It took me a LONG time to get beyond the short shift (still do it occasionally - old habits die hard). So now,, the question you gotta be asking is,, do you wish you would have sought out the repair on the others,,, no - no I dont.. Short shifting is just not that big of deal when talking about a touring bike and the fun they represent.. Finally,, in answering that final line as to whether or not you should jump in and grab one.... Something to consider in the difference between what I (and many many others) have been thru,, we were dealing with bikes that were only a few years old in a lot of cases. All those other parts and pieces were still fairly fresh. We are now talking about 34 year old scoots regardless of how many miles are on em. Then there is the bike market itself - WOWZY is it flatlined!! I just read an article about how bad things are with HD and the cut backs they are issuing. I also just read that Polaris just signed the papers to release the left over NOS Victory inventory that their dealers are setting on for what ever the market will pay = could be seeing new touring bikes for under 5 grand (sounds nuts but it is possible). All that DIRECTLY effects the value of used bikes. I just passed up a 2nd Gen here locally for 2 grand = a 20 year newer V-4 than what we are talking about. So,, all that said,, lets say someone gives you a nice looking, no second gear 1st Gen that has sat for 20 years. You are, at a minimum = gonna have to redo carbs, new water pump, stator, air filter, progressive springs, fork seals, tires, brake pads and calipers, clutch slave, hoses, fuse block and all fluids to make er dependable. You will end up with + 1200 bucks into her with you doing the work AND, your gonna be short shifting thru 2nd every mile,, mile after mile PLUS = every wire connector, electrical device, seal, gasket, bearing and on and on and on in that scoot are 34 years old.. I think I would take the cash and put it toward a newer scoot if this is about just wanting something to ride.. On the same token though,, these original Mk1 1st Gens are very special - there are a few of us around this joint (myself being one) that honestly think and wish that Mom Yam would have just reintroduced the bikes we are talking about as the new Venture (speaking for myself = I am dead serious about that). Knowing what I know and having spent many many hundreds of hours on them in countless crazy situations I gotta say = IMHO, they really truly are the best kept secret in Touring bike history.. If you are like minded with that - by all means = GRAB ONE and get to spinning wrenches!! Thats my story and I'm stickin to it!! Puc

WOWZY BL!! Very well done ,,,, PLEASE tell your cousin ol' Pucster said THANKS a gillzion!! Lenny,, did you hop over and get a peek at the material at "MO" that your cousin sent to you? If so, did you happen to notice the reference that denotes the CRF450R valve train comparison? I have ridden, on track and single trackin, both the CRF450R and 250R many many times and got to say = that line of scoots was/is nothing short of phenomenal = DEFINITELY HIGH HP AND EXCELLENT RIDERS! Any way,, I was very glad to see those guys let the world know that the RnD department at Honda went forward in using "race" techology in developing this new motor.. I have to say though,, I am still kind of questioning why they didnt finish the job and let this new one perform like it appears it is capable of.. The dyno sheets between the old school 2 valve motor 1800 and this new 4 valve motor are almost identical. In defense of Honda, I will say this. One of the things us dirt riders in West Mi learned when Honda released the CRF450 was how frugal a highly effecient motor can be. My KX500 2 stroke would burn almost twice the fuel as the CRF450R in performing the same tasks.. I have a hunch that the folks at Honda had maybe decided that the huge weight loss they worked so hard to obtain, coupled with the few extra ponies they derived even while holding its reigns tight (possibly limiting its R's - or HP - to assist in keeping the wing durable) resulting in what appears to be a very promising excellent HP to weight ratio was good enough. Then I also wonder just how much Mom Yam's decision to not go for performance in the new Venture by hitting the market hard with a V-Max V-4 motor gave them some space for not needing to focus on real performance.. A lot to think about! Another amazing point.. You notice what a Base 6 speed Goldwing weighs? Well under 800 POUNDS!! Thinking of that,, here we got a full on water cooled, shaft driven, 6 cylinder touring bike WITH REVERSE at almost 200 pounds less than the new air cooled, 2 cylinder , belt driven Yam,,, ,, ,,, makes no sense,, still just makes no sense

But first I gotta go take Maggie for a ,, been a couple days since she has been out of her coup because of rain and all this motorcycle is making my trigger finger itch..

THANKS BL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! On my wayyyyyyyyyyyy:7_2_102[1]:

Thusly making that which is fastest even faster :bikersmilie: I still think if Mom Yam would have just reintroduced the exact Venture she gave us in 83 (minus the 1st year production bugs of course) for close to what they sold for new back then and just included with it the V-Boost = she really truly would have turned the touring world upside down... I would have signed the papers right at Americade had she of done that!!

The only kind of apples I am concerned about when out CTFW are the bag of apples I carry next to the water jug that hangs on Tweeks side from time to time. Generally speaking,, one of the huge things I have enjoyed about CTFW thru the years has been escaping from the phone ringing and music blaring in the world around me. Tip and I do carry a pair of MP3 players in Tweeks tank bag just in case but, at the start of last ride season I put new batteries in them just in case and while out in California touring the coast last year our camera's batteries went dead and I stole the new batteries out of the MP3 players to use in the camera. The batteries were still new cause we never even did use the Tweeks audio system.. I do suppose if Tip ever decided to stop CTFW with us I would probably be interested in some of this new fandangled high end stuff so I would have someone to yak with and share the journey with but I don't see much of a chance for that cause Tip seems to be handling the south side of the bell curve of life a lot better than I do physically..

Yep,, you are on to it!! 1st Gen Mk 1 = 83 thru 85, 1st Gen Mk2 (no clam shell bags and other small changes including different drive shaft length but same tranny) = 86 thru 93, 2nd Gen = 99 up and have the bat wing fairing. The "gear ratio change" 2nd Gen tranny swap you hear about is ONLY applicable for certain years of the 2nd Gen's I believe.. That may only apply to the RSTDs even (the ones that have no fairing - cruisers with V-4's they made from 96 up but not sure. If you are interested in doing a total tranny swap so you get the different ratio's we will need to rattle some chains here and get a good guru so you can be sure and get the parts your looking for.. If you are going to just rebuild back to stock = yes, 86 to 93 1st Gen MK2 parts should work as far as I know. Also, if you look at the pics I posted - take note on the model number pic - notice the VIN number on the bottom one being stated? I think that "1413" at the end of the VIN is the last of the bad thrust washer business that caused 2nd gear failure. That simply means if you are looking at an 85 and the VIN is higher than that number = your good to go on the tranny issue.. Make sense?

While my "M.O." has always been to by em missing 2nd gear and short shift em out to 2 or 3 hundred thousand miles so I have never actually had one down as far as you have yours Johnny (I commend you though, looking good there) I may have an answer to your question here.. Looks to me like it is actually both the washer and the plate you want to replace to be sure and also check that shaft groove very closely. I have done many other bike trannies in the past and if it were mine, I would also check those 2nd gear dogs and engagement window edges closely too.. Also the shift forks for wear (be surprised how people like to rest their toe on a shifter when they ride).. Anyway,, here is what I found in some of my accumulation of paper work.. Hope this helps!!

WOWZY WOW WOW WOW RIV!!! THAT is absolutely priceless IMHO = wayyyy way cool!! Excellent find brother, THANK YOU!! Noticed a number of very interesting things.. One of them, I spent a number of years turning steel back in the 70's and some of those years were doing turret lathe work.. It was amazing to me to see how little things had changed in that field from the 20's to the 70's!! Seriously!! Watching them cut steel took me right back to those early years for me!! Also,, I couldnt help but notice that they used a screw (not a bolt), tightened with a screw driver (not a wrench or socket) to capture the little gear on the end of the crank and, no lock tight .. Watching them slide in the lifters reminded me of working on my buddies Harley a couple days ago. Did you notice how absolutely simple the carb was = now THAT is what I been talking about = K.I.S.S.!! Burning off the pre lube at the start of the test ride = sooo obviously for real this video was!! Watching them get "air" on those early scoots = OUTSTANDING!!! Also,, I could not help but notice how sure of themselves those early riders were - noticed when going side by side the one guy had his hand on the others shoulder = .. Point of curiosity was = I noticed what looked like army tank tracks in the dirt on top of the bridge, could have been boards making up the bridge but I dont think so = you notice that? Also, the guy sitting on the fence watching the scoots go by = I am bored = "wish I was riding one of those" . Last but not least = the very end shot in the mud hole = inverted = can relate!! Thanks Riv = you made my day!!

Hmmm,,, maybe a better approach with potentially less down time would be to go test ride one and forget to take it back at the end of the demo ... That way, when the show up at your door you can plead ignorance and tell em ya thought they said you won the bike and that they gave it to ya .. If ya decide to that though DanL' PLEASE let me know ahead of time cause I wanna ride down there and video the whole shananigan and post it on you tube .... :happy65::rotf::rotf:

Maybe we could all save our Hot Dog cash up,, petition our club President to write a letter to Mom Honda for us and get us some kind of a club discount/group buy thing going.. Buy 5 = 8%, 10 or more = 12% discount??? Keep a little money in the Hot Dog fund that way brother!! Man cant live on Hot Wings alone,, gotta have an occasional Hot Dog tossed in there too

Bar none,, that right there is exactly what I would do if I were ever to undertake the tranny repair/update on a MK1.. Fool is spot on here,, I know that @VenturousRandy has also done a lot of figuring on the gear ratio's and also knows exactly what you would end up with percentage wise (up and down) by doing this.. As I understand it, the drop in gear ratio is significant enough in 1st gear that idling around in the woods at a snail's pace in 1st is much easier if your into such nonsense. Yep,, this is the direction I would head iffen I was gonna rip er all apart like you got goin Johnny.. Either way though,, LOOKING GREAT THERE = all the best in a good outcome with high anticipation for a great 2018 ride season brother!!!