cowpuc

,,, maybe,, just maybe you should text Chad back and tell him you have heard of 1 or 2 club members that still have a small amount of misgivings toward Mom Yam for bailing on the old archiac water cooled V-4's and you were wondering if the Rep's would/could also include one of those little 1700cc V-Max's for doing side by side comparison's with in case anyone wanted to... Personally,,, I think that would be a classy thing for Mom Yam to do and would GREATLY appreciate the chance to ride a bike with that motor in it.... Regardless,, GOOD ON YA BIG TOM for working on setting this up = you da man!!!!

Ohhhhh nooo I didnt ,,,,, it was deeply wrapped in my California comment and somehow,, someway,, I think you already knew that ya lop eared Hot Dog munchin varmint

Well I for one truly dont mind eating crow,, especially when done in honor and in tribute to a brother who is allll excited (as would I be) in seeing his hopes come true of owning the motorcycle of his dreams = GOOD ON YA JOE and a MAJOR congrats to you and your bride!! Personally,, I look forward to and anxiously wait for the day to get to meet the 3 of you out CTFW!!! Concerning the heat matter,,, you DEFINITELY are batting 100% with that comment as I know for a fact that a vast majority of todays touring riders actually do insist on and reguire the searing engine heat found only in world class touring bikes of the modern day - I actually did read those words in a recent well known motorcycle touring publication and at the time took a very real stance on what they were saying BUT (and this is part of my willingness to eat crow), in reading your and others thoughts on the subject - I fully capitulate and can see where at this time in touring history - engine and exhaust heat on the lower extremities of 2 experienced touring riders can and is a desirable item. This is truly going to be an amazing year for touring for us long term Venture Riders, both VR MC clubbers and others alike IMHO. As part of that historic group of rag tagged lop eared varmints, I totally look forward to sharing the open road (and hopefully numersous Hot Dog outings too) and hidden corners of the North American touring adventures with you and the endless others who will be straddling this marvelous new Yamaha Venture.. Ride safe my friend and remember - many great touring adVentures dont begin until 2 people aboard a bike that has earned the privilege of being considered a 1/3 part of the team find themselves totally and completely lost while out Chasing The Front Wheel and its at that time that club forum rules dictate that the camera's come out:guitarist 2:.... Puc

:dancefool::dancefool::dancefool::ice_congrats-vi6886:ice_congrats-vi6886:ice_congrats-vi6886:ice_congrats-vi6886:ice_congrats-vi6886:ice_congrats-vi6886:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Back in my day we had a word for all this,,, not sure if I am spelling this correct but: BOGE - BOAG - "Baa" and then Ohh and then Ga.... As in,, that is Boge.... Anyway,,, sounds like your dealing with it Joe.. Definitely strange IMHO.... I know Canadians have crossed the U.S. border and purchased brand new bikes,, lots of times.. I know of more than one personally who have done so.. I also know for a fact that the exact bike you are referring to are totally available here and at completely reduced prices... Is there something special about the TC that has to be onboard to make it legal in Canada?? Remember I told you about the hard sell here and showed you the pics of discounting happening?? While I have no idea if any of our local dealers have done business over the border,, I do know that the new Wing (which IS selling like hot cakes here) is being discounted by several "5 star" Honda dealers in the U.S.. I also know (because I have also been following the new Wings flourish - its a flaw in my charactor - like I said in a different post,, I LOVE all bikes and my passion comes out in some wierd ways:178:) that at least one of those discounting dealers (Honda of Russelville in Arkansas) has already sold and delivered well over 50 of the new Wings and some of those went to Canadian buyers.. Seems crazy to think that you couldnt do the same with the new Yam... Maybe not though,, maybe my area is wacked and the TC/Eluder are selling at such a fast pace over and above the new Wing that they really do have you pinned... I know one thing,, knowing what I know and what I have been told and what I have seen thus far,,, before I would accept the idea that you are pinned - I would DEFINITELY make numerous stratigically placed phone calls to a wide variety of dealerships both in Canada and in the U.S. before I cried uncle if I were you... TONS of misinformation on the web these days,,, THAT is fact!! Plus we seem to be living in a day and age where non truth is more easily accepted and honored than truth and some businesses are so sold out to living on the edge of honest business practices that they may not even give a second thought to telling fibs... A good example from my prospective: Polaris's latest new motorcycle line/model carries the Indian name. As is customary, I followed the unveiling of Polaris's 111 at Daytona and then later that year, my wife Tip and I Ventured out to Sturgis for the world launch of their new bike - it is/was gorgeous = IMHO, Polaris did a bang up job in this repop!! We stood there and listened to the VP of Motorcycle production for Polaris (fellow by the name of Menndoza or something like that) tell the gathering of folks in front of the museum for the unveiling that Polaris had no interest in going toe to toe with HD and that their Indian repop was strickly a stand alone scoot seeking a niche of its own.. He then continued to boldly say that their VERY SUCCESSFUL Victory line was going to continue to be developed into the non-nostalgic line that it was and that Polaris had great plans for the their two lines.. Fast forward to today: One week after the Polaris reps stood at the International dealer expo soliciting for new Polaris Victory and Indian line franchises - Menendo (just remembered his name) announced that Polaris was closing the Victory line!!! Those bikes were being sold at MSRP up to the date of closing and franchises for that line were also being sold AND - the VP's reason given for closure = VERY VERY LOW SALES THRU THE HISTORY OF THE VICTORY LINE... How could that happen?? Simple,, for years Polaris has refused to disclose actual unit sales numbers - no one ANYWHERE actually had a clue just how stable that line really was and Polaris was able to excersise a form of dishonesty (IMHO) in business.. Now I notice (I notice a lot - its another flaw in my charachtor) that Polaris is taking HUGE steps in isolating themselves from there Indian line for some reason. I just received my latest mailings from Polaris and get this,, they no longer claim they are the producers of their Indian model of Polaris Motorcycles and the latest flyer coming from the same place as the Slingshot flyer that was in the same mailing states the produced by "Indian Motorcycle Company" with NO WHERE on the flyer (like stated openly on the Slingshot flyer) having Polaris's name printed... It almost appears that Polaris is in the process of trying to produce the image that the real Indian Motorcycle Company that went under in '53 is/was/has been still alive and well.. So,, whats wrong with that? To 99.999999 percent of the buying public and ways of thinking in our day and age = absolutely positively nothing.. BUT - to a few people who might be interested in open truth and honesty - the kind of practice that I am talking about does create some uneasy internal feelings... Personally,, I like being treated honestly and, even though sometimes its hard to take,,, I prefer to hear the truth... IMHO,, dishonesty is down right tiring where honesty,,, once you get thru the initial brunt of it if its about something not fun,, tends to be a lot easier and funner to deal with.... I know,,, I am strange and weird but thats how I see life...

I know,,, I am one odd lop eared duck varmint swimming in a sea of normal quackers but,, as one of my daughters who spent thousands and thousands of miles behind me touring the country on our beat up ol Venture called me and reminded me of when Wild Hogs first came out,,, her words = "Poppers,,, they stole your life story":

Well certainly Drews,,, at least here in the State of Michigan its legal... Now,,,, in some places like the State of California - maybe not... The reason I say that is cause I recall an ad I seen once for motorcycles years ago that, at the end of the ad they said something like: "dealer prep and associated costs may differ in the State of California" and since hearing that as a youngen, I always give myself that elbow room when answering a question like yours

Well look what the sub zero Canuckian freezin cold air blowed in - wassup Carl... Speaking of speech givin and seeings how we got you two lop eared varmints together in the same room,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, for some reason I am inclined to pull to mind an old joke I heard once... Went something like this (my version) "What's more fun than treeing a cat up in a tree?":Im not listening to:178: Answer: "Treeing two cats in the same tree" :Im not listening to:178: That right there DEFINITELY constitutes a Silvr lining IMHO:big-grin-emoticon:

Actually,, there are may be a small number of us V-4 lovers who might not totally agree with that Wildman:missingtooth:!!

Wayyyyy cool site Randy = THANKS FOR THE LINK BROTHER!!!:thumbsup:

and now that the rest of us lop eared mild mannered tight lipped varmints know we won't have to listen to another one of Bum's speeches :Im not listening towe are ALL double glad your staying too Silv!! Looks like we are on another win/win clubhouse roll!!!!

Yea,,, Tip, Tweeks and I camped one time off "Alleygator Alley" down in the everglades = WHAT A NIGHT!! Laying there listening to the screams of things getting crunched by gators while laying next to Tip under our deflated tent (perfect for keeping the skeeter out while still staring at the stars)... Tip says,, dont you think we should set the tent all the way up?,, I said = nahhhhh,, it'll get in the way of the view,, besides,, them gators aint gonna come up here and cross that two track to get us.. Then she reminded me of the ABUNDENT supply of PYTHONS down there = 3 minutes later our tent was in full bloom with all of our gear forming a barrier around the inner perimeter

I hear that DanL' = cocky suckers they can be.... Sometime even worse than a group of 9th grade boys in English class with a substitute teacher (been there - on both ends).. That same spirit and attitude they get when dusting off a big air cooled push rod twin that is twice their size and you just know that is going on between the bikes is not so much fun when they start it with us... I have found with mine that spit polishing a couple stickers while being careful not to erase names or nock off any dirt that Tweeks has earned is a good way to get reaquainted.. Sort of like a Cowboy taking his hat off and having it below head level on his horse as he is offering a handful of Montana's finest with the other hand - that kind of thing always helps for me n mine....

Not yet,, ordered it after reading your post.. I did get this in my email this morning though: Track Your Shipment: This shipment includes the following items: [TABLE] [TR] [TD] [/TD] [TD=width: 150]Item #[/TD] [TD=width: 550]Description[/TD] [TD=width: 150, align: center]Qty[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD]08-0048[/TD] [TD]MOTION PRO 08-0048 Chain Alignment Tool Brand New Yamaha Honda Kawasaki ATV MX[/TD] [TD=align: center]1[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Thank you for your business and we look forward to serving you in the future! PWC Parts Email: slecsign@yahoo.com Website: www.pwcparts.com Got LOTS of plans for the warmer weather ahead Joe!!!!!

,, forgot about your Wing trade, if they already sold it and are playing games with you on your TC = that could present issues IMHO.. I am no business attorney but it seems like if they failed on their agreement and already made money on your money - you would be up for more than the trade allowance.. Fair is fair.. I would set down with the business owner and ask what a customary consignment fee is in your area.. I would then petition for proceeds from the sale of your bike discounting for a reasonable consignment number.. Technically,,, at least here in the States,, without the fulfillment of their end of the contract (you got a bill of sale didnt you?) - that Wing was not theirs to sell. Also,, I TOTALLY get your point on the floor model damage. Matter of fact,,, if I were dropping 27 large on two wheels with a motor I would want to be in the back room snapping pics of my new baby as she was being born.. I would also want to interact with the fellow gearheads in the back room thru the process and get a good feel for how they operate before turning my back on em as they finish the job.. On the other hand though,,, around here we have what is called "the ABC Warehouse effect". This is a concept where you go into the showroom,, cash in hand,, shop the scratch and dents and discount for the same.. Those zipper scratches on tanks and foot scarf damages to saddle bags from bone hea,, I mean from accidental rubs can be worth a fair discount if your not afraid to inquire.. Not much different than buying demo bikes IMHO.. This may all sound hardcore Yam but I gotta tell ya.. I have bought/sold and participated in many many dealer auctions for this industry and what I am describing is exactly what takes place in those joints.. We would buy at sell points that deducted for every nick and scratch knowing there was a really good chance that when the inventory hit our floor - not all but the wise customer would be doing the same.

Eye of the beholder = no truer words have ever been spoken Yam = fact of life.. Good example,,,,, Hanging out with the rag tag gang of lop eared neighborhood biker dude varmints at the local HD shop in the dead of winter a few years ago, I get up from the coffee table to mix up another brew for the crew (them other varmints is as lazy as the putzy 45 degree big twins they ride ) when I walked past a new model Street Glide sitting next to a new model Electra Glide Classic.. My neighbor who is one of our crew and also works the floor as a salesman for the dealership was standing next to me and noticed the look on my face when I noticed the two scoots had exactly the same MSRP on them = $17,984. He stared at me when, in my usual - from the hip way said = "that makes absolutely no sense".. My point was, the Street Glide was a totally stripped down version of the Classic with a plain jane black paint job (not that the black wasnt nice = IMHO, NO ONE paints a scoot like those boys in Milwaukee -TOP QUALITY and second to none!) with identicle frames, motors, forks, wheels and shocks but no trunk, no saddle bag guards, no cruise and no stereo... I said to my neighbor - how on earth you gonna sell that (pointing at the Street Glide) when for exactly the same price a person can buy that (pointing at the Classic) and strip it down and have all those parts left over to use if needed and end up with that (pointing back at the Street Glide).. My salesmen neighbor laughed and motioned me over to the parts counter and, while digging thru the parts fishe,, says = "because of the way you think, this is REALLY gonna fry your bean".. We sat there and added up well over $4000 worth of extra parts a person would be taking off the Classic to turn it into a Street Glide and have in their possesion should they ever decide they wanted/needed the parts.. Just the trunk assembly with no hardware was well over 2 grand.. After that,, my buddy smiled and said - now I am gonna really twist your brain - he then informed me of EXACTLY the pinnical of what your initial statement of "the eye of the beholder" represents.. He says Barney,, believe it or not most people dont think like you do (once the odd ball always the odd ball I guess).. Case in point, he says,, that plain jane Street Glide is HD's number 1 seller - it outsells that Classic 20 to 1!!!! Funny thing was that at the end of that year when the smoke had cleared and we all were back down there drinking up Clydes Coffee (Clydes the owner) that same saleman mentioned that all the Streetglides were long gone but I984 wanted a new left over $17984 Classic I could name my price and probably end up with one.. $14000 slowly rolled off my lips and my buddy smiled and said,, if your serious I could probably make that happen... Yep,, I TOTALLY get that eye of the beholder routine...

INDEED = I would have a hard time covering something so purdy up with my backside - WOWZY WOW WOW WOW that is gorgeous! I gotta ask Chief,, what is that material? It almost looks like snake or alligator skin on the sides with Ostrich on the top or something - definitely show bike quality.. Makes me think of the likes of @StarFan 's machines... NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some areas the new Venture and Eluder arent selling as well as others... Case in point,, current offer at Babbitts in Muskegon Mi are as shown in the pics and this is with no wheelin/dealin.. Another good one would be David Allen Racing in Fremont Mi as I was just up there and know they too wheel and deal... If it were me and I was looking at a new Venture, I would grab a hand full of cash, walk into the local dealership and begin the negotiations for out the door pricing at the stated figure on the sign and work from there, of course,, if we are talking obtaining a loan and working with a trade in - what I am saying is off the table... IMHO,, it is definitely a buyers market out there!! Even Honda dealerships with this new Wing offering are selling way below MSRP!!!

Yam,, my R1 has a digital speedo which I assume the new Venture is too.. On my R1, converting from MPH to KPH is just a matter of pushing a button. I wonder if this isnt the case with the new Venture too.. I wonder if there are other emission type stuff that has to be met for Canada?? I have sold numerous bikes into Canada thru the years and, other than making sure all the recalls were up to date, I dont recall anything special needing to be done...

Actually I am a HUGE Yamaha Venture fan but also a HUGE HD fan - I like em all - truthfully I have never met a bike I didnt like!! I have been riding the Ventures since 87, am in the process of wearing out my 6th one and have truly enjoyed every moment of owning, touring, torturing and riding these totally misunderstood, often overlooked and wayyyyyyy under valued magnificant machines.. On the same token though,, I do believe in calling a spade a spade. When Mom Yam decided to listen to the Star air cooled V-Twin design group and step off into direct competition with Harley on well established Harley ground at the same price point as a comparable HD then all avenues that HD represents are on the discussion block and open for honest debate IMHO.. That being said and calling a spade a spade,, I think if you look closely at the Yamaha Venture warranty you will probably discover that the actual factory warranty on the new Venture is 1 year.. The actual factory warranty on the HD is 2 years. Yamaha's claimed 5 year warranty is actually made up of 4 years of "extended warranty" which, like it or not,, is not the same as a factory warranty.. On the 2nd Gens = Not long ago Yamaha actually did give a factory 5 year warranty I believe and the extended warranty is a totally different animal IMHO. Some will say its same same but if that were the case,, why the change? Given the Venture does have 38 gallons of storage and the HD is shy of that by 3 gallons but considering that max payload on the Venture including 2 riders is 412 pounds (kind of interesting cause lots of 2 up teams that I know are pretty close to this limit or over it in just rider/passenger weight) and the Harley tops this at a 435 pound payload capacity it all sort of balances out IMHO.. Truthfully I hope Mom Yam finds the success she is looking for in with Harley and only time will tell whether or not the sales will be there.. I still do have my reservations concerning the matter and still think that if Mom Yam would have stuck a detuned/tuned for torque, water cooled, shaft driven V-Max motor with even 10 more HP then the 160 horse Beemer and a torque curve dynoing out to +15 foot pounds over this air cooled V-Twin Strat motor and dropped the over all weight instead of increasing it she could have had a much better chance at actually turning the touring world up side down as planned...

and here at the gateway to Michigan's finest touring opportunity,, we are 4 miles from ethanol free fuel PLUS we feed our motorcycle friends free Hot Dogs on a regular basis!!! COME ONNNNNNNN SUMMER!!!!! Just ask someone like my dear brother @Drews - he'll tell ya all about it!!!

If ya give us some measurements I will look in my scrap bin and see if I can find one Skidder... Otherwise its:

:clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::dancefool::dancefool::dancefool::dancefool::thumbsup::thumbsup: :sign Rock On::sign Rock On::sign Rock On::sign Rock On::sign Rock On::sign Rock On::sign Rock On::sign Rock On:

The pics below are taken from the actual hard copy of the magazine article that Duey posted the online version of found here: http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?135569-Gen3-Venture-Comparo&p=1033658#post1033658 Notice that the MSRP for the HD as tested (deluxe version with 2 tone paint) is only a few hundred dollars more than the MSRP on the as tested "TC" Venture (now if you were talking about comparing the Polaris - HOKEY SPAMOKEY = WAYYYYY OUT OF LINE IMHO).. Given, the Venture has the reverse gear but the HD has water cooled heads making it run cooler and allowing for better performance (out of the three bikes - Polaris, Yam and HD = HD had the best performance). For folks riding in higher temp areas, heat management may trump having a reverse and for folks who can no longer push a touring bike backwards then the reverse will trump having a cooler running bike IMHO.. As far as the 500 dollar difference in upfront cost if thinking bang for the buck,,,, it has been my experience (and given,, I am probably an oddball in this) that Harley's hold their value 2nd to none in the market place.. A good example is what you see early model Ventures (which I LOVE by the way) selling for, its not uncommon to grab a good running model for under a grand and have a non running parts bike even given away before seeing it go to a scrap yard.. I have bought and sold many Harleys of this same vintage and have yet to resale one for under 5 grand (more for the older Shovels in decent running condition) and 3 thousand for a parts HD big twin is actually a common low figure in todays starving market place - in all my years of buy/sell/ownership/fixin I have yet to see a HD big twin go to scrap and have seen many Yam Ventures end up in the scrap pile at their end... All that said,,, when it comes time for trade in or resale = that 500 dollar difference upfront will be repaid over and over again.. Another thing concerning value IMHO... While at Sturgis last year when demoing the new Venture I grabbed one of Mom Yams accessory books and it contained 3 pages of parts = all cosmetics.. I recently grabbed my new HD accessory book = 1 1/2 inch thick and that was just the accessory book.. HD also has what they call their "performance book" where everything from cams, jugs, pistons, push rods, tuners and on and on can be found and this little performance accessory book in itself is x20 of the Yam entire book... Another issue has to do with the dealerships themselves when it comes to value IMHO... Around here our HD shops are HUGE into promoting our sport.. They offer everything from training courses to regular Meet n Greets. Our local metric shops - including Yamaha - offer nothing even close. Plus, the Harley shops found along the pathways criss crossing the country are 20 to 1 or better more popular than the Metrics IMHO.. I hope I dont sound like I am bad mouthing the Mother ship here cause I am not,,, its just that the choice to jump into the Harley circle and compete with The Motor Company was made by Mom Yam and, again IMHO, if she is gonna go toe to toe with the air cooled v-twin push rod world leader in both price and stated offerings than the facts of an open/honest comparo will prevail.

Just found this,, good read but lots missing in this online version Duey - still a very good read though. Thanks for the link!! Puc