cowpuc

Prayers Up for your family members going thru the heart stuff Ben = very glad to hear they caught the stuff before it turned lethal!! Indeed my friend - get those tests in - thoughts and prayers your way too that all the tests come back good!!

WHAT IN THE WILD WILD WORLD OF CLUELESSNESS IS GOING ON AROUND HERE - !! Larry and Joyce got 51 years in!! :lightbulb:Look in the dictionary under the words "Cradle Robber" and you will find the name "Carbon One" in the definition thereof!!! Congrats you two - sorry we are late to the well wishing here but Tippy, Myself and even Tweeksis wish you the very best as you continue adding up many more awesome times together!! Love you guys!!

I really really really love Harley's and always have.. Take that with a grain of salt though cause I have a HUGE flaw in my characater that leaves me helpless to really really really like all bikes ... As shown in the pics (and those are only a few pics from the digital camera age), I have owned numerous Harleys - have rode em hard cross country, built em for HP gains, chopped em for fun and for , hill climbed em and dirt rode em (lots of folks dont know this but in the early days,, before the evil metric Empire took over so we didn't have to spin wrenches as much - HD V-Twins dominated the hills and forest of motorcycle off roading)... Fact is,, IMHO,, if it were not for HD keeping the ancient air cooled, V-Twin push rod motor alive with some AMAZING demographic and marketing understanding thru the years - I think the basic air cooled pushrod big V-Twin design would have died off long ago but,,, it hasn't.. Due mainly to this, I also consider any form of that archiac but iconic design that is non-Harley a clone/wanna be/imposter attempt at sneaking off with part of the market that Harley owns and attempts at sneaking off with a piece of that pie has been going on for many many years now.. Companies like Polaris with their failed Victory models that they stopped production on because they just didnt sell (still to this day - Polaris does not release actual unit sales numbers BUT - Polaris Motorcycle V.P. Menetto did have a slip of the tongue in a press release about their Indian repop that under 125 thousand Victories were sold during the years that Polaris was producing them and this was during the hay days before the economy tanked and at a time when that number represented a quarterly production number just for the HD Sportster!!!) are still chasing that pie and putting millions of dollars into RnD with their Indian remake in trying to get even a taste of the HD pie and now with Yamaha's latest shot at the task (a task that they too have a very solid high rate of failure with - there is a longgg list of Yamaha V-Twins that havent cut it as there are with all metric manufactured clones) - I think it is very clear that even the bike manufacturers of the world clearly believe HD and their pie are here to stay.. Concerning parts availability, as long as there are bike parts being produced in any form for consumer consumption - HD will be there... Not just The Motor Company itself with it HUGE parts supply but also in the aftermarket. Cost wise in both purchasing the bike new and upkeep - a person would be really smart to do some research and compare.. The days of paying x50 for a clutch cable like we did back in the 60/70's just because it said HD on the package is gone - now if ya want to sticker shock in both parts and bike prices look to Polaris as HD tends to be fairly on par with the metrics. While the new HD's may not have the latest and greatest in European stuff like electric windshields and also seem to rely on people buying into the idea that they are buying a motorcycle so a manual clutch and having to push the bike backwards instead of having a reverse gear may be part of their playbook BUT - HD paint quality is second to none (you wont find to many HD's rusting out along the fender creases in the show rooms like you will on the Polaris's) PLUS - and this is HUGE to many people - HD's accessory line and group outings/company backed outings are always top notch.. Nahhhhh,,, HD isnt going anywhere,, definitely not in the next 20 years IMHO... Personally,, if I were a betting man and gonna bet on who/what was gonna be left standing in the industry in 20/30 years,,,, I think Polaris will cease their Indian repop production and it will go the way of their Victories longgg before HD goes under and I think the new Venture will be another hard selling - low resale value Strat/Roadliner/V-Star/Roadie/VTX/Intruder/Vulcan metric that will find its way into that "heyyyy,, we tried" group. On the same token though Yamster,,, I am also one who thinks that if/when battery technology catches up with the times and it gets to a point where a person and his wife can jump in their electric car or on their electric motorcycle and drive/ride non-stop for 800 miles at 80 mph with no recharge needed = at that time,, fossil fueled vehicles will all be in deep trouble so take this all in for what its worth.. Concerning what to buy,,, plan A's and B's and all that stuff??? Best advice EVER is to ride em before ya choose one,, all of em that interest you and form your own opinion from what YOU experience - certainly dont base your decision on what others say or have written.. I dont know how closely you followed the new Wing test riding that went on down at Austin a couple months ago?? I was highly intriqued when I read the testing and saw the pictures of a life long Wing rider and mechanic who got invited to that outing.. During his testing (which included 2 up riding with his wife and even a shot of them airborne on the new Wing) this person reported that he had had many many Wings and his latest one (believe it was a 2012) had a full aftermarket suspention job done to it and all the add ons to make it ride as good as it possibly could (it almost sounds like the 1800's came with Ink Pen springs in the forks similar to my 1st Gens) and that the new one - in stock form - was wayyyyy better than even his full "Monty" previous Wing - and that is what he reported in the Magazine (if anyone would like to read this,, I could probably find it).. Problem was,, after he purchased a new one he found and was able to actually get it out and spend time on it - he discovered that those words were farrrr from accurate... The latest report that I have read from this same person is now completely different than that of his original = OH MY GOSH THIS THING IS AMAZING Magazine report - problem is,, IMHO,, comes to be when thinking of all those people who read that magazine article and bought into the new Wing as completely and 100% better than even the best high dollar - fully modified previous model - does what I am trying to say here make sense at all??? If it does, IMHO, a far better plan than just going but what we read/hear and even a better plan than a quick demo IMHO is to rent one and CTFW for at least one solid day on it... Its hard to really get a feel and to find little things that can be important on 20 minute demo's IMHO.. What da heck,, most Demo doer's wont even let you let the bike sit in one spot for 30 minutes idling to duplicate sitting in traffic - you know cause you have been around bikes and covered a ton of miles on em - ya gotta be able to take the bike out and run it thru its paces, if your gonna be riding 2 up,, best be running it thru its paces 2up too IMHO ... Here's a few shots of some of my history with HD you asked about..

I know it would be VERY difficult cause where you live is your home and all that BUT - REALLY = watch "Making A Murderer" on Netflix = its an ABSOLUTELY 100% true documentary of just what you may be dealing with Dan.. When Tip and I first watched that series and we got to the point where the wrongly accused was finally released after spending 18 years in prison - I told Tip before we went any further in the series that he and all his family members needed to GET OUT OF THE AREA IMMEDIATELY cause the corruption that falsely locked him up in the 1st place would never ever leave him or anyone related to him be - in the end,,,, that is exactly what happened.... One of the things about organized crime (even if we are talking about crime organizations that are suppose to represent honest - law and order) is that once they have their toes stepped on - bad things happening often escalates... Truly DanL,,,,, if - somehow by the grace of God your brother does get exonerated = maybe, possibly rethink the whole thought to fight these bums, maybe sell out and go live in peace in the company of your intact family and dont look back... Something to think about bro...

:happy65::dancefool::dancefool::dancefool: cause when this happens and those hot dogs start flowing,, and they will,,,,,,,,, all of sudden it becomes no longer about what scoot cha ride but about whether or not ya miss getting on that hot dog train....

I know, we are gonna both end up back out on club probation for this Duey but,,,,,,, OH HECK YEA - I TOTALLY HEAR THAT!!! Like a skeeter buzzing around the head of Clydesdale horse working out in an open field In our defense though brother,,, before all the :buttkick: starts here in the club house aimed at our little ,,,, something to remember is that Mom Yam invited it... Matter of fact,,, in an even worse way = so has Polaris and the,, shall we say,,,, less than transparent ways of that skeeter doing business may actually be to their demise IMHO because they openly and outrightly declare taking over double digits of the giants market BUT,,, in so doing,, they absolutely positively REFUSE to release actual unit sales numbers to, in the slightest way,, prove the truth behind their claim = I think, they think we bikers are st,, not to smart... Because your comment is about comparing apples to apples and the apples clearly are defining themselves as chasing the same apple pie Duey - I think this is a GREAT topic for club house debate!! Probably aughta should both start looking for more "get out of probation free cards" now though

Indeed!!!!!! In all fairness and in the pursuit of open honest transparency,,,, the copy/paste I did above actually came off one of the bigger Wing site and was posted by "Fred Harmon", a well known and highly respected Winger over there so I was fairly sure of the integrity of the content and cross product application.. Speaking of tires Yamster,, the three of us (Tweeks, Tip and I) tend to be somewhat harder on tires than some folks I have read about around here.. On the high end,, a top brand rear to date has just over 7k miles of life and the bottom rung (404 Dunny) - came in at the all time low of 3400 miles worth of tour life - everything else has fallen in between those parameters for us and our touring style.. I have read of, and have no reason not to believe them cause they are upstanding members here, folks seeing as high as 21k miles out of the same rear tires I have ran off the backside of Tweeks.. I also have a nephew who owned an 06 Stratoliner (sold it to his little brother a couple years ago) who did a fair amount of 2 up touring on his Strat and his tire wear (he was always told the reason for this was the stump pulling THUD of those big pistons rapping on the back tire = told this from more than one dealership and also myself numerous times) for the rear tire pretty much always mirrored the bottom half of the per tire mileages I see on Tweeks. I am now very curious to see/hear/read tire wear comparisons between the Venture and new Wing.. With them both being the same size motor basically and one having the smoother 6 pot engine and the other a more dynamic delivery - it will be interesting to see how running exactly the same tire will show in performance/longevity between the two... WHAT A GREAT TIME TO BE A BIKER,,, IMHO of course..

When I 1st read YamaPar's post above the thought crossed my mind of exactly what Dave responded with here,,,,,,, like what the heckster,,, this exWinger brother is defining the feelings about what Mom Yam came up with for our new Venture to a tee... Well said Tooch,,,,,, it's all confusing and hard to understand all the in's and out's but I gotta say,,,,, could not have said it better myself...

Yamster,,,,, I have chased a fair number of front wheels in my season,,, both on and off road - on everything from bicycles with lawn mower engines taped in their frames to some of the worlds fastest production motorcycles and I gotta say, that thru all that chasing of the front wheel,,, bar none,,, and discovered totally by accident - the Yamaha MK1 1st Gen Ventures fit me the best... And that being so with not add ons needed = right off the showroom floor. Simply fold the bars back and down, put a sleeping bag, one of kids or Tippy on behind me to lean back on and INSTANTLY - 12 to 16 hour ride days for both of us - no monkey butt - no stiff shoulders - no cramp legs = just open road touring for days on end.. Straight up and from the hip? For real,,, over a million miles of that.. Now that said,,, please take a minute and go back to post 9 of this thread, you will see the opening picture of one of our video clips. Dont press play but stare for a second at that pic of Tip and I on that old bike.. Notice the distances and angles of our body parts connecting with the scoot, pay particular attention to my foot/leg/arm/hand/shoulder/neck positons in relationship to the bikes contact points... Now try to hold that image, go back to post 3 of this thread and overlay that same image onto the last picture of me sitting on that new Wing. You and others might not see what I see but what I see explains to me why I instantly felt some very special with the Wing... I cant say much more beyond that because,unlike the new Venture, I have not ridden one but someday very soon I/we plan to conclude that part of forming our personal opinions of the new Wings fit for us too... IMHO,,,that is the only way to really know = gotta spin the wheels to know how she feels...

WOWZY WOW WOW WOW!!!!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj6r3-sQr58

I noticed this info posted on another forum and thought someone with one of the new Ventures may find it useful,,, especially in a pinch: '''Right now its extremely difficult to find any rear tires available for this bike, and you may be forced to actually order them from a dealership if you want to stick with the stock tires sizes. I've done a little research and have found a couple possible alternatives, but they are not exact matches, as the aspect ratio is a 60 instead of a 55. The stock rear tire is a 200/55R-16 (77H) 1. Bridgestone G852 ($285 - Revzilla / $241 Dennis Kirk) 200/60R-16 (79H) 2. Metzeler ME800 Marathon ($188 - Riders Domain) 200/60R-16 (79V rating) 3. Bridgestone Excedra Max ($142 Rocky Mountain ATV) 200/60R-16 (79V) 4. Avon Cobra AV72 ($192 - Riders Domain) 200/60VR-16 (79V) 5. Dunlop D251 ($283 Riders Domain) 200/60V-16 (79V)'''

Whats really crazy about all that Yamster is that I have been following one of the biggest Wing forums since the unveiling and in all seriousness - I have yet to read where any of those guys,even 1, are even thinking of jumping ship to the new Venture... The comments I have seen even mentioning that surround one of disbelief that Mom Yam stuck an air cooled motor in the new Venture = it seems that most of those folks lean toward not being in much of an alignment with the "Harley way" - sort of different ways of thinking.. Now if we were talking about the Polaris motorcycle forums,,,, WOWZY - the Victory sites seemed much more in acceptance and welcoming of the idea IMHO... From what I have been reading,, the Wing riders seem to be more along the line of debating - buying new left over REAL Wings or being blown away with the "game changing" new one = now THAT debate is HOT (from what I see)... Another interesting thing is within our own forums here... There is a running poll over on one of the Wing sites for new owners of the new machine asking how they like their choice of DCT or Manual.. Something I noticed, among other things, when thinking about that poll was the total number of responders I noticed - right around 100 total.. Also in the discussion pertaining to that poll, it intrigued me in the number of long term members/Wing riders who had grabbed a new one compared to the amount of new comers jumping onto the Wing rolls.. When I compare notes from that site to that here at VR and look for long term members here who are riding the new one I come up somewhat less than over on the Honda site - I am truly not sure that I know of even one long term member here who has purchased the new one.. New members, like yourself, the same thing - indeed,, it is AWESOME to have/meet/hear from the new members riding/owning the Venture and it is ALWAYS refreshing to make new friends but,, when compared to the new member numbers on just that one Wing site who have purchased and have joined their club - ours seem down by quite a shot. I do wish the "Star Touring" group was not so expensive to join and/or so tight lipped about whats happening within their circles because I sometimes wonder if - because they are basically where the whole scheme and design of the new Venture had its basis (I actually got to meet the folks from the Star Group that convinced Mom Yam to go air cooled/belt drive Strat motor out at the world launch at Americade in New York last year) - if their clubs walls might be busting at the seams with folks riding the new one - it would be interesting to know.. From what I have been reading in following here with the comments yourself and others have made - I have a hunch that their clubs walls would tell a simular story statistically of that I seem to see happening on the big Wing forum.. I have been racking my brain trying to think of someone I know that particpates in that club to pick their brain in order to validate that theory but to date have come up short with someone who is a member therein... Another VERY interesting thing is listening to you and others who are Northern neighbors of the States and to hear how WOWZY WOW WOW WOW the Venture is scoring up there!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have no idea what the east side of Michigan is like as far as unspoken for SVTC/Eluders are over there but I can tell ya,, on the west side = its a walk in, negotiate a deal and walk out the same day with a new bike over here and we are,, what,,,, maybe 5 hours from Windsor On.. Another VERY interesting thing concerning the Wing that I noticed.... I have always been amazed that Honda kept playing with the whole "Automatic Transmission" idea in bike - they have been playing that tune for many many years in a variety of ways and,, from what I experienced both professionally in sales and also from watching floor plans fall apart - the automatic tranny idea is/was/has been a perpetual failure,,,,,,,,,,,,,, UNTIL NOW!!!!! Right away I notice the sales of the new DCT Wing taking off,,, then it took off some more,,, last time I checked the dealerships couldnt get em in fast enough and now I read that even Honda Reps themselves have stated that what they expected (80% manual shift - 20 DCT) is exactly backwards - WHAT IS THAT ALL ABOUT? I posted our slow ride video (shown below) to a famous touring bike instruction guy and asked if the new DCT would be capable of this and got a "doubtful" answer... Honda's response concerning the matter, if needing to slow ride at the pace I am showing in the event of a slow moving traffic jam is one of - it is not good for the DCT to be ridden in the friction zone as days of old, instead, stopping the vehicle and letting the traffic open a gab and then filling the gap and stopping again is the acceptable way to approach this... Clearly,, the majority of people who are purchasing this new DCT are good with that,,, I,,,, I CANT IMAGINE THIS.. I cant imagine being in a line of slow moving traffic for 5 hours (think,,,,,,, Lake Tahoe to Placerville California on a Sunday evening) being the one who is making the traffic come to stop every 40 feet - .........

Took the words right out of my mouth Sky... It's kind of mind boggling watching all this unfold... Another good one is watching HD's move into watercooling to cool things off a little and get better performance while meeting new Regs all while Yamaha jumps in both feet with an air cooled..... Crazy...

Tenting made easy... Unlike YamaPar,,, we choose to discard our little tents when they start to get thin and leak some instead of trying to maintain them with sprays and stuff. While sometimes that means 3 or 4 tents per season (wearing out tents is a GREAT touring past time IMHO) - they are cheap enough in comparison to other items during a 25 to 30k ride season that it works for us...

Personally,,,, I cant imagine Transcontinentaling without the centerstand on my scoot... As shown in the pics below, Murphy has proven to me on numerous occasions (Tweeksis has a couple "tire stickers" still stuck on her backside from a couple times Murph has successfully snuck up on the three of us) that he knows exactly where to place those little steel booby traps (found inside the brand new tire I removed from the bike left on the center stand) on some of the Transcontinental roads of joy that we have traveled.. I think if I had a scoot with no center stand I would at least pick up a small bottle jack and carry a piece of 2x4 in with my tire spoons.. Then,,,, when it happened wayyyyyyyyyy out in the middle of Montana,,, I could put the board under the kick stand and place the bottle jack on the other side toward the rear of the bike and then I could carefully do a three point lift (front tire/kick stand/bottle jack) just to give ol Murph the business = all's fair in love and touring ya know:happy34:!!

Hey Vipe,,, hope I didnt inadvertently take your thread down the wrong path here, sorry if I did... Were you asking which brand new scoot we would chase down? = now noticing your comment about the age of your bike.... If that is the case,,,, at this time,,, I can honestly say that the new Wing has my most attention (looks kinda sorta like Mom Honda picked up some pointers from the Mk1's and applied them to the new Wing = LOVE it!!)... Now if Mom Yam woulda listened to the likes of the varmint who sent them the copy/paste wish list posted below for the new Venture instead of the throngs of the massive group of Strat riders like they did,,,,,,,,, I would definitely have to change that direction!!!!!!! """1700cc V-4 "V-Max" motor.. Detune it to 170 horse/130 ft/pds torque if you must (just like before) but please,, dont do another V-Twin - got enough of em.. You guys can do it,, I KNOW YOU CAN!! Shaft drive! EFI with a tunable tuner - even if its an add on - please provide one so we can tune it!! LED lighting. Engine guarding and saddle bag guarding. Adjustable bars like on the first gen. Factory tank and windshield bags. Fixed Fairing. Get the same Doctors who advised you on constructing the seat of the 1st Gens (cant remember what you call those guys) to advise you on this one - my kids, wife and I LOVE what they did!! Keep the seat height difference between the rider and passenger no more than 3 inches (2 is great) - raising the passenger higher causes weight imbalance and makes slow speed riding harder. Ease of removal of the trunk(s) for changing rear tire. Center stand. Forward boards with normal foot pegs located rearward so standing up while riding is still possible, shift and brake levers at both locations (no heal toe please). Hand warmers. Key removable rear trunk and bags. Grease zerks on all main pivot points. High output stator even though it has LED's. Double check the gear sets in the tranny and make sure they ramp up solidly. Oversized clutch to insure NO slippage in high gears with xtra weight. 42 millimeter front fork tubes with progressive springs. Imbed reflective tape (or use reflective paint) in paint lines (like pin striping) so all profiles of bike light up when grazed by car lights. Add a large foot onto side stand - tired of bending over to pick up stand plate after parking on loose ground. Explore which tire sizes are the most common and build around those standards so tire choices and finding them are easy. Remember those long grips you used on the first gens? Use those, I love bending them back onto my knees. Enclose the motor well to keep ANY objectional heat off both riders BUT - use lots of venting with plenums to act as heaters when needed. Windshield it so the rear rider remains in the protective air pocket - functional vents in shield and fairing to adjust air movement if needed (hey,, could be asking for servo operated shield but I dont care for more things to go wrong). 6 speed Over drive tranny. Use GOOD solder, especially with ECU pins. QC the daylights out of it! DONT go cheap and trust the Chinese!! Dont short us on wire harness leads so wiring is tight - xtra 1/4 inch really helps!! Make fairing panels easy to remove but not so they fall off. Supply printable shop manual disc and printed well written owners manual. Supply GOOD factory tire pressure guage. Chrome is out for me, I LOVE dull stainless (like the pipes on the "New" V-Max),, matter of fact,, build mine with no rustable chrome and all dull stainless!! Intercom, CB and radio would be nice.. Keep the tape deck. """""

That ability of the clamshelled Mk1's to squeeze between the trees of off roading is one of the huge plusses and reason I fell in love with the MK1's.. Almost like Mom Yam was thinking Sport Touring even wayyyyyy back then,,,, back before Sport Touring was even thought of by the manufactures......

I had read somewhere that after a certain point in production in '85, Mom Yam finally got it together and stopped using the soft thrust washer that created the mess. "Post" that point is my reference... Now if we are gonna introduce custom home fixin into the discussion here,,,,,,, I would have to default to one trannied and Vmax rearended out like that genius Randy did. I think the lower 1st gear and higher 5th gear plan that he came up with in a MK1 sounds like a perfect plan for the already ultimate touring bike IMHO... I too LOVE my clamshells Carl:happy34:

Just an FYI Chief,,,, some of the varmints around here may not know what your referring to when referencing your old Venture.. To some of us, when you say 2nd Gen, it means the '99 and up Venture with the Bat Wing, fork mounted fairing. The larger top loading saddle bag 1st gen Ventures made after '85 (starting in 86 and up to 93 I believe) commonly get referred to as the MK2's and the original Ventures get the 1st Gen MK1 label by numerous folks.. Of course,, as in all things,,,, who cares - dont matter really but just thought I would let cha know in case some lop eared club member varmint gets a happenin when ya mention your previous smile maker...

Post tranny issue '85 for me,,,, I always thought it would have been cool to have had a real deal factory solid 2nd geared MK1 to take to the limit...... Thinkin Tip would have fully enjoyed the xtra couple liters of trunk space too on those 2 month/+20k mile tours with all the tent camping we do...... Yep,,,, definitly an '85 MK1 Venture!!

hour ago print[h=2]favorite this post 1979 Kawasaki KZ1300A hide this posting[/h] Kawasaki KZ1300A fuel: other transmission: other OEM seat cover and foam is 100% perfect Carb floats replaced and jets fatten up by prior Z1300 Kawasaki mechanic owner Valve shims checked and coolant and brake fluids changed. Motor pulls super strong and there are no leaks of any kind. True mileage 14,889 Brand new 'IRC' RS310 Durotour tires ( Front 110/90H-18)( Rear130/90H-17)

Seems like someone was lookin for one a while back,,, maybe,, maybe not... Regardless,,, thought I best pass this one on: http://gl1800riders.com/forums/6-gl1800-classifieds-4-sale-owner/416417-vstrom-sale.html @Flyinfool ??????? Am thinking of you??? Stinks getting old,,, cant remember nuttin no more...

Chief and Sky,,, I too would like to thank you both for your service in the fight to maintain our way of life too!!!:usa: As a reminder,,, our club tends to be very patriotic (IMHO) at heart and the Boss has kindly provided our membership with those really cool honor badges for those who have served and,, speaking solely as a non Military or public servant member,, I REALLY appreciate those who have served and step forward to claim their earned honor badge cause it lets us folks outside of you special "Band of Brothers" easily identify each of you.. Probably sounds selfish but some of us,, myself included, really mean it when we say "thank you for your service" and feel bad if/when we miss the opportunity to acknowledge someone who deserves that respect/honor... I hope that all came out in words like I meant it too. Dont mean to offend anyone in any way concerning the matter.. Puc

Yep,, I am with DanL' on that... Now if you start foolin with the OEM airbox/air filter arrangement along with those open pipes then yea,,, your gonna wanna take a close look at the jetting too but,,, only uncorkin the pipes - should be good to go.. Small word of advice,,, ya might wanna hang on to your OEM pipes too cause listening to the mighty V-4 sing thru open pipes can get a little tiring if touring... I made a set of drag pipes one time for one of my 1st Gens out of thin wall chain link fence posts, welded on a set of make shift shark fins on em - WOW DID THEY SOUND GREAT and no problem with jetting (bike ran out past 250k) but, a cross country tour with those pups on there taught me how tiring the drone tone of running open pipes could be.. Hang em on the man cave wall just in case......

I been sayin it,,,, I know of at least one of the 5 star Honda dealers down yonder who have already sold over 50 of the new Wings at just their shop.... Similar to the new Venture on our site,, there is a lot of going on over at the Wing site that I have been following since I heard the new Wing was coming from those who are on the new one and those who think Honda went the wrong way by not staying more in line with the full blown heavy weight touring bikes (the very reason too that Rider Magazine did not allow the new Wing to join in the Titans of Touring shootout - Rider said they viewed the new Wing as a light weight now = a Sport Touring bike in league with the FJR, ST's or even CTX's) BUT,,,,, WOWZY - following the classifieds over there of folks who are selling out to grab a new Wing and reading how many have traded up at dealerships = definitely makes one wonder if Honda really has got a history making,game changing, turning the touring world upside down scoot on their hands... I got to set on one as it was being put together recently but (THAT VARMINT FOOL AND HIS BOOSTED W.W.W.) because of weather - have yet to ride one like we have the new Venture but gotta say,,, just from sitting on it and bouncing it between the knees = totally agree with you guys - DEFINITELY something really special right there!! Personally I think the Wing is the only new model that I have been exposed to that has earned thru major RnD - ground up changes and advancements the mid 20's and up price tag found on all of them - my opinion and mine alone.. I am witholding my call on the new Bsemer until I get a chance to that puppy too BUT,, and this is big one to me,,,, if those Germans went to all that amazing effort to build that Grand America full on GORGEOUS touring scoot (as seen in pictures only so far in my case) with an actual 160 horse and then did in fact stuff a unchangeable 101 mph speed limiter on (as rumored) so a even a Honda 600 scooter or a kid on an old EVO Hd will rip by it then,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, well,,,,, then Honda wins the only one worthy of the $$$$'s being asked IMHO.... Silv,, no idea why they wouldnt let you take a seat = maybe the bike(s) were all sold.. If you EVER get another chance to at least swing a leg over one, my money is you will be shocked at how light it is coming off the stand.. Truly,,,, felt almost dirt bikish to this ol varmint!!