VR to R1 Brake Swap Part 1!

[skydoc_17]

When I purchased my 1987 Venture Royale I noticed right off the bat that the left front rotor/caliper had major problems as did the rear caliper. The left front caliper was sticking so badly that it destroyed the LF rotor. After pricing rebuild kits for the three calipers, the rebuild kits for the front and rear master cyls. and the replacment of the bad front rotor my navigator/accountant said that perhaps I should just part the bike out! I sung the blues to SQUEEZE ( by the way thanks very much for giving me the courage to do this!)and he assured me that the solution was to replace the calipers with calipers from the Yamaha R1 and "de-link" the braking system. I really liked this idea because I also have a Honda V65 magna with the usual braking system. Both front discs operated by the hand lever and the foot pedal operating the rear brake. I purchased 2 front calipers from a 2002 R1 from Ebay for $40.00 with shipping. I also purchased a brake line set from a 2002 VMAX for $28.00 with shipping. Lastly, I purchased a set of stock, used rotors from Ebay for $55.00 with shipping. I picked up a front and rear master cyl. rebuild kit from Rick @ Buckeye Performance (by the way Rick, thanks a bunch!) and althou he was not too keen on me de-linking the brakes he was very friendly and provided excellent service, plus gave me a nice VR ORG. discount.

Once the parts arrived, I removed ALL of the old brake lines, rebuilt the front and rear master cyls., installed the VMAX brake line set, moved the right front brake caliper to the rear (waiting on another good buy on a RF R1 caliper.) added a set of speed bleeders on all three calipers, and this was the beginning of the good part, I bled all three wheels out in 8 minutes!! Needless to say the braking is nothing short of UNBELIEVABLE! During one extremely hard brake test I came VERy close to lifting the rear wheel off the ground with NO front brake lock-up, and the decell was breath taking. The more brake lever you grab, the harder these new calipers work! I have included some pics, Part 2 will be the addition of an R1 rear caliper and part 3 will be the replacment of the stock front rotors with a set of modified R1 floating rotors. I will keep you posted as the rest of this story unfolds. Any questions, please feel free to ask me, SQUEEZE is the Master, I'm just the desiple.

Ride Safe,

Stop Safe,

Earl.

 

Edited October 24, 2018 by Freebird
Spelling...My Bad!

[Superdave]

Wow Earl that looks like a really nice fix!

 

I just recently purchased my first VR it is a 1992 model. I have to say I am not impressed with the brakes at all. This seems to be a pretty straight forward fix for better braking. It looks like the calipers mounted up pretty neatly. Couple of questions, What year R1 and why the Vmax brake lines? I sure do like my bike but the brakes do work on my nerves a bit in traffic. I also have a turbo Yamaha that has pretty weak brakes. This may be a good fix for it as well.....Dave

[skydoc_17]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the kind words! The calipers are a direct bolt-on item and the years are 1999 to 2003 R1's. Plus the 1997 to 2001 R6's are the same and they have a "really cool" blue dot on them! The reason for the VMAX brake line set is a lot of VMAX owners go to the braided SS brake lines and sell the stock line set dirt cheep. Also, you get everything you need including the front line splitter valve and the double banjo bolt you need for the front calipers. By the way you don't even have to remove the stock "hard line" that runs from the rear master to the front of the bike by the handle bars, I being on the "picky" side chose to get rid of all the extra stuff, and it made for a much cleaner look.

If you need to know anything else, please feel free to PM me and I will be more than happy to fill in the blanks.

Ride Safe,

Earl

[davepa]

Nice job so far Earl!

I will drop by and take a closer look.

 

I am glad your patience allowed you to keep moving forward on a worth while upgrade !

 

Dave

[pegscraper]

Preach it, skydoc. I've done this same swap and the brakes are just flat incredible. Whenever I talk about it though, I get slapped around by someone or other saying that just putting braided lines on does the same thing. T'ain't true, and anyone who has actually done the swap knows it. Everybody should be doing this one.

[GigaWhiskey]

Kewl! And, they look perty too!

 

 

What can be done with the MKI's?

 

 

Btw, I got the Venture Cruise stuff. What do I owe you? Thank you for the part Earl!

[skydoc_17]

Thanks to DavePa and Pegscraper for the kind words, Dave, It's always a pleasure to have you visit my little shop and see whats going on, I hope the next time you stop by you'll be riding your "new scoot".

Rick, thank you as well and "no charge" is the going rate for a fellow VR.ORG family member. Good luck on your Cruse project. I have not done my homework on the MKI's as far as the brakes go but I'll snoop around and see if I can find a few part numbers that might work for you.

Ride Safe,

Earl

[Rick Butler]

Yeah Earl,

 

Nice job. I really like these calipers where you not only find them on the early R1, R6, FZ1, FZ6, but also the 2005 Road Stars as well. The newer R1s, etc have now gone to radial calipers. I wish I had discovered these calipers before I changed out the 2 piston calipers on my 02 Midnight RSV with 4 piston calipers off a 1st gen Venture Royale. I also note that the banjo bolt mounts are on the side of the caliper which make using stock line a bit of a challange. If it were me I would have gone ahead and sprung for stainless lines, but that is just me.

 

However, if you have delinked these brakes, I would strongly advise that you NOT worry about adding one of these R1 calipers on the rear. The last thing you want is a strong powerful rear caliper. Case in point is the FJR with a 1 piston sliding pin rear caliper. If you left the stock 4 piston caliper on the rear, I might even keep the proportioning valve intact?

 

When everything was linked with a proportioning valve to provide more volume to the front, it worked well having the same calipers on all 3 rotors. This is one of the problems with having a 4 piston caliper on the rear of our RS Ventures, where inadvertent rear wheel lockup is an issue. In fact I have gone to a 2 piston caliper on the rear and added an adjustable proportioning valve to help resolve this problem.

 

But like always, this is just a suggestion,

 

Rick

[CrazyHorse]

I've done this also since I have never liked linked brakes. I used R6 calipers but I think it they go up to 2002 instead of 2001. I also use the HH rated pads. I originally used the the standard Venture master but have since gone with a Suzuki GSXR 600/750 Katana master I like it a little better. The bike stops much better then the original setup.

 

Nice work. Squeeze knows alot about these bikes I have picked his brain a few times. I admire the guys that think out of the box and do the modifications ( I wouldnt do this on a new bike but 20 year old ones why not.) to make their bikes better. Congrats

 

Edited September 8, 2008 by CrazyHorse

[davepa]

Thanks to DavePa and Pegscraper for the kind words, Dave, It's always a pleasure to have you visit my little shop and see whats going on, I hope the next time you stop by you'll be riding your "new scoot".

Rick, thank you as well and "no charge" is the going rate for a fellow VR.ORG family member. Good luck on your Cruse project. I have not done my homework on the MKI's as far as the brakes go but I'll snoop around and see if I can find a few part numbers that might work for you.

Ride Safe,

Earl

 

Hey Earl,

Denise and I may be in your neck of the woods this afternoon...might just stop by and take a look.

 

Still have my 87 in the garage, have several people thinking about buying the venture but no takers yet...but alot of questions. Many want to know if the VR would make a 300 + mile trip. I think it should but I will not make that call since I have not ridden the bike at highway speed since the crash. I try to be honest with people and not just tell them what they want to hear. The biggest problem with most is the salvage certificate even though I was told in PA a inspection once repaired will clear the title.

 

I have replaced all the damaged parts except the left front turn signal lens. Might even try to repair the crack in the left upper fairing since no pieces are misssing and it is only about 3 " long right along the edge .

 

I didn't want to part the bike out since it is complete and still in very good condition. But would like to generate some more money towards a new RSV. So, I will wait a few more weeks and if nothing happens ...I will start spreading parts on the garage floor.

 

Dave

[skydoc_17]

It was a pleasure to see DavePa and his lovely wife Denise early this afternoon. I was sad to see them drive up in a cage, and not a new RSV! I understand that "all good things come to people that wait"! Dave and I ran to the shop, ohhh and ahhhed over the new brakes, and Denise was VERY patient with us, Jean and Denise chatted while Dave and I talked "Tech Talk". Their visit didn't last long enough, as I was getting ready for work. (2nd Shift)

To Rick Butler I wanted to to say that high praise from someone like you with your vast knowledge of these wonderful motorcycles are kind words indeed! If I do run into problems with rear brake lock-up The "Butler Mod" will be the next item I add. Thanks for the suggestion about the stainless steel brake lines but I was trying to do this swap on a "Budget" and in the future, as funds permit, the SS lines will be at the top of my "wish list".

 

Thank you all for your support and comments, I listen to them all, and as time and money permit I continue to evolve my VR into the "Superbike" I know these bikes can be!

 

Ride Safe,

Earl and Jean

[sarges46]

Well that mod looks good for sure.

 

Now, I may have missed something somewhere as I am prone to do, but can this be done with the second gens?

[Rocket]

Preach it, skydoc. I've done this same swap and the brakes are just flat incredible. Whenever I talk about it though, I get slapped around by someone or other saying that just putting braided lines on does the same thing. T'ain't true, and anyone who has actually done the swap knows it. Everybody should be doing this one.

 

Putting braided lines on a Mk1, with standard brake calipers, helps a lot. Much faster stopping, than with the old lines, without the hassle of changing the lower forks, calipers & pads, rotors. With the braking performance I have now, I wouldn't bother changing out those items.

 

[davepa]

It was a pleasure to see DavePa and his lovely wife Denise early this afternoon. I was sad to see them drive up in a cage, and not a new RSV! I understand that "all good things come to people that wait"! Dave and I ran to the shop, ohhh and ahhhed over the new brakes, and Denise was VERY patient with us, Jean and Denise chatted while Dave and I talked "Tech Talk". Their visit didn't last long enough, as I was getting ready for work. (2nd Shift)

To Rick Butler I wanted to to say that high praise from someone like you with your vast knowledge of these wonderful motorcycles are kind words indeed! If I do run into problems with rear brake lock-up The "Butler Mod" will be the next item I add. Thanks for the suggestion about the stainless steel brake lines but I was trying to do this swap on a "Budget" and in the future, as funds permit, the SS lines will be at the top of my "wish list".

 

Thank you all for your support and comments, I listen to them all, and as time and money permit I continue to evolve my VR into the "Superbike" I know these bikes can be!

 

Ride Safe,

Earl and Jean

 

 

Just returned from Earl's and the brake setup looks great..adds a very clean, updated appearance. Can't wait to see the rotors added to the total front package a little extra touch Earl has calculated, measured , and remeasured many times in his mind. When it all comes together it is going to look SLICK!

 

Had a short but enjoyable visit and finaly had the pleasure to meet his wife.

 

My wife said when leaving, "Earl's bike is, wow, clean, his garage/machine shop and tools are spotless"

 

Stopped by the local Yamaha shop on the way back to see what was up with the new RSV and was told, if I wanted one he would order it, corporate will not just send a Venture for inventory because they just don't sell...big bikes don't move ..think of that!

 

Dave

Edited September 8, 2008 by davepa

[pegscraper]

Well that mod looks good for sure.

 

Now, I may have missed something somewhere as I am prone to do, but can this be done with the second gens?

 

Yes, it can. You'll also want to get a master cylinder from a Roadstar to match best with the calipers.

[pegscraper]

Putting braided lines on a Mk1, with standard brake calipers, helps a lot. Much faster stopping, than with the old lines, without the hassle of changing the lower forks, calipers & pads, rotors. With the braking performance I have now, I wouldn't bother changing out those items.

 

 

Ooh, I'm getting slapped again. I'm sure stainless lines help, but this swap is still better. What did I say up there, anyone who tries this swap knows the difference. And if you haven't tried it, you only think you know but you don't. None so blind as those who refuse to see.

[skydoc_17]

As I said at the beginning of this thread, I was trying to bring about a MAJOR change in the quality of my braking system on a BUDGET. The cost of the four stainless steel lines you would need for the first gen. VR cost 2 to 3 times more than I have in this entire upgrade. I was looking for the most BANG for the buck, so to speak. I'm not saying that SS lines won't end up on my VR in the future but at this present time, the $200.00 plus dollars for SS lines would not have addressed any of my problems with my siezed front or rear old two piece calipers, or the failure of my front and rear master cylinders. Not to mention I bled all three calipers in 8 minutes, from dead dry to full braking power! Try to do that on a first gen., empty both masters, crack all three bleeders, and try to remove all the air in 8 minutes or even 8 hours! For those of you who have kept your first gen. braking system in tip top shape over the years and have not had any braking issues, you have my upmost respect! I purchased a used VR with major braking problems, and after much thought over the cost and what I would end up with after spending a BUNCH of money to refresh a 21 year old brake system back to 21 years NEW!?!? I chose to go the upgrade route. Perhaps this upgrade is not for everyone, but I have NEVER heard anyone say that their first gen. VR stopped TOO FAST!

Just my thoughts on this subject, for what their worth.

Ride safe,

Stop Safe,

Earl

[CrazyHorse]

As I said at the beginning of this thread, I was trying to bring about a MAJOR change in the quality of my braking system on a BUDGET. The cost of the four stainless steel lines you would need for the first gen. VR cost 2 to 3 times more than I have in this entire upgrade. I was looking for the most BANG for the buck, so to speak. I'm not saying that SS lines won't end up on my VR in the future but at this present time, the $200.00 plus dollars for SS lines

Earl

Have you shopped around? I found Braided SS plastic coated Goodridge lines and connections for less then $120 at small M/C shop for the front set up. I gave him the measurements he ordered them.

[Dieseldawg]

Repair,upgrade and low budget:clap2:

[Rocket]

As I said at the beginning of this thread, I was trying to bring about a MAJOR change in the quality of my braking system on a BUDGET.

 

The cost of the four stainless steel lines you would need for the first gen. VR cost 2 to 3 times more than I have in this entire upgrade.

Earl

 

That is why I brought up the Mk1, as more needs to be changed, to do this particular upgrade. Others (visitors & members) will be reading this thread, looking for ideas on how to improve their braking action. Some will have a Mk1 & others a Mk2, so the parts list will be different, depending on budget.

 

BTW with the Buckeye SS Braided line kits. ALL flex lines are changed, brake & clutch, so that should be 6 lines for the Mk2.

[talonsx2]

So here is the question I have,

can I upgrade to the R1 or R6 calipers and still keep the linked brake set up:cool10:? I have always liked the linked set up :banana:and have never had a problem with the brakes on my 84 venture but if I can stop faster than thats always a plus....

 

Stay safe and keep the rubber on the road.

 

 

Michael:225:

[Rocket]

So here is the question I have,

can I upgrade to the R1 or R6 calipers and still keep the linked brake set up:cool10:? I have always liked the linked set up :banana:and have never had a problem with the brakes on my 84 venture but if I can stop faster than thats always a plus....

 

Stay safe and keep the rubber on the road.

 

Michael

 

Yours is one, where you need to change the lower forks, brake rotors & probably the front & rear master cylinders. Before even changing the calipers themselves, as it is a Mk1. You will need Mk2 components, to install.

 

The best bang for the buck, without that hassle, is to put in SS Braided lines. I was surprised, by how much it improves the Mk1 braking, with stock calipers. I am still kicking myself, for not doing this change much sooner, like before killing that deer with the scoot (would have been cheaper & much less painful).

 

I figure if I can go from 70 Mph to 0 Mph, within Grandpagak's yard frontage (no traffic behind), with stock 2 piston calipers. This setup is, good enough for me.

 

[Rick Butler]

Sarge,

 

Peg is right in that these calipers will also work on our RSVs. But like I said earlier, the banjo bolts are on the side of this caliper unlike ours that bolt up from the back side which makes for an unusual or difficult mount using stock lines. I helped BJ Melin (Longtrain) put a set on his 99, but we went ahead and got a set of Galfer lines (with a straight banjo end fitting) from the folks at Cycle Brakes.

 

And Lynn, the Road Star master cyclinder is a good idea because it has a bigger reservoir to handle 8 pistons instead of 4. This is what I did when I put 1st gen 4-piston calipers on the front of my RSV.

 

Rick

[Squeeze]

Very well done, Earl, congrats on updating the Brakes on your Bike on a more recent Package and the SS Brake lines will give you another extra Perfomance. Yammi states these Rubber Brake Lines should be replaced every 4 Years because they get weaker every Years and expand more and more. This Expansion takes up some of the Pressure and giving less Power to the Pistons. They don't lie. I think, 6 Years of use are enough for stock Lines and replace them with SS-Lines. I always use shielded Lines because the outside Mesh will scrub off Paint and scratch anything they get in touch with. The SS-Lines are once in a Lifetime Replacement and the Money very well spend.

 

Sarge,

 

Peg is right in that these calipers will also work on our RSVs. But like I said earlier, the banjo bolts are on the side of this caliper unlike ours that bolt up from the back side which makes for an unusual or difficult mount using stock lines. I helped BJ Melin (Longtrain) put a set on his 99, but we went ahead and got a set of Galfer lines (with a straight banjo end fitting) from the folks at Cycle Brakes.

 

And Lynn, the Road Star master cyclinder is a good idea because it has a bigger reservoir to handle 8 pistons instead of 4. This is what I did when I put 1st gen 4-piston calipers on the front of my RSV.

 

Rick

 

 

Rick, the Size of the Reservoir is not the big Issue here. It's the Piston Size(14mm) and Leverage which is made up to fit the Calipers and give the best Feeling on the Lever and best Performance. I use swedish ISR Mastercylinders on my Vmax with two 8 Piston Calipers and the Reservoir is only 25 Percent the Size of a stock Reservoir. No big Deal, just replacing the Fluid every Year and all will be well.

 

 

As for keeping the linked System, i never heard of anyone trying to do this. My best Guess is it will work but since the Piston Diameters will not meet the the exact Requirements of the newer Calipers, there will be Room for Improvement left. No Doubt that may be an Improvement though.

 

For questioning the newer blue or gold Star on the rear, i have such an blue Star Caliper on my '93 and it works flawless without early Lock Ups in concert with the rear stock Mastercylinder and with the Proportioning Valve removed. I even think i may have some Room for Improvement left, but since i do not use the rear Brake that much, i'm not going to tinker with that until i'm retireing. This may take another 15 or 20 Years or so...

 

 

So just to keep the the Facts in short List:

 

1Gen MK I Bikes ...

- need lower Forklegs, because their Mounting Bolt Distance is 83mm and won't fit the 100mm Calipers

- need the bigger 282 mm Brake Discs with 132 mm inner Diameter and 6 Bolt mounting Patter, Yammi uses them in several Bikes and with different Styles, the're

come in solid Version like MKII has or in semi-floating Version with 10 'Floaters' between inner Mounting Part and outer Ring

[skydoc_17]

Hey Squeeze,

In Case you missed the "Thank You" in my earlier post, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!

For helping me with this brake mod. Even my 86' NEVER stopped as well as my 87' does now. My full time job has kept me very busy lately and I have been trying to "squeeze" (no pun intended!) the last of the riding season out of this area but in the very near future I will be adding a pair of modified R1 semi-floating rotors to the front of my 87', I will keep everyone posted as that project unfolds! In my 52 plus years on this planet I have prided myself on "thinking outside the box" and are accostomed to "nay sayers" but because of Squeeze's easy, matter of fact, communcation style, I never doubted the information he gave me, and when I paniced a few times, like when the master cyls. needed to be rebuilt, he calmed me down, walked me thru it step by step, and all came out as I (he) knew it would! This young man is a walking encyclopedia of tech. facts about the First Gens. and VMAX's and my Hats off to him!!

 

Ride Dafe,

Earl