Clearview warning

[OutKast]

My lower / wider Show Chrome has two solid holes, four slots.

[James Ardrey]

Glad to hear you are alright,

 

Sounds like we need to talk to Clearview and suggest they do NOT make their shields like the stock ones, and instead use holes in all 6 places!!! to make sure they remain secure.

 

 

Edit:

 

now that I think about it, I am about to pull the shield anyway to install my Zumo mic cable.. I'm going to get some silicon sealant and put that on all the screws to make sure they do not come loose and so they stick to the windshield.

I have sent Clearview my pics and described what happened in an e-mail and with my phone #. It was this afternoon and I probably won't hear from them until tomorrow. I will make that suggestion when I talk with them. The only downside I see to 6 holed shield would be getting them aligned, but it certainly would be worth any inconvenience to have at least a 2nd line of defense against human or equipment failure. Remember Murphys law. If anything can go wrong it will. Thanks for your concern and suggestions.

[James Ardrey]

My lower / wider Show Chrome has two solid holes, four slots.

At least with two if any of the other screws fail or loosen there won't be an unnatural twist or torque on the shield that I believe can and did happen with my shield. I had it off to put a new headlight bulb about a month ago and have ridden no more than 3,000 miles since. I know everything was tightened at that time. Under these conditions I would have to stop every 5oo miles and or every time I decided to ride to have caught any potential problems and maybe not even then under certain circumstances. That is not acceptable in my estimation. There must be some kind of back up support to allow for some failure without the whole system failing. Current design appears to be adequate only when every piece is working in concert and that just doesn't cut it on such an important part of these motorcycles.

[James Ardrey]

Edit:

 

now that I think about it, I am about to pull the shield anyway to install my Zumo mic cable.. I'm going to get some silicon sealant and put that on all the screws to make sure they do not come loose and so they stick to the windshield.

__________________

 

 

Why not run the bead of silicon along the bottom of the shield and around the screw holes as well as the screws?? Kind of like a cars windshield sealant. May give a little extra grip and still be able to remove the shield when you need to.

That may be part of the fix I put on mine. I am also going to attempt to find a backup steel support to add rigidity to the candy ass support bar that is currently there that also is threaded to allow for more thread depth. an 8th of an inch just doesn't cut it. That is why the margin of error between being tight enough and stripping the screw is so little. Very little thread to bite on.

[James Ardrey]

Like Ramblingman said its a good idea to check your hold down bolts. After reading this post I decided to check mine. Of the 6 bolts 4 were loose....the 2 outer bolts were very loose.(Stock Windshield) Thanks for the info

 

 

Keith

Exactly the kind of response I am hoping for in starting this thread. If it saves one person from the experience I had it will be worth it. I am hoping mine is a fairly rare occurence. I and you people on this site have always been dedicated to solutions and that is just one of the things I appreciate about VR. Thank you for your post.

[Rick Butler]

Folks,

 

In all reality, I have never been satisfied by the manner that Yamaha only has one real bolt hole in their shields with the remaining holes being sloted. This means that if you inadvertently loose that screw (or the bottom part of the hole breaks out), then there is nothing holding the shield on except the pressure of the remaining screws and it's going to be in-your-face. In fact mine was one of the first 6 that Clearview built with their new design. And when I was talking to them about what size I wanted, I made a special request that they provide 6 holes rather than 1 hole and 5 slots like the OEM shield. And when I received it, I found that the holes were not circular but elongated. This worked out well for aligning the screw holes. And there are 2 other changes that I made to the mounting:

 

1. I got a set of stainless replacement button head allens that were 20mm long which gave more depth for the thicker shield.

2. I got a set of small 3/4" fender washers to allow better disbursement of pressure from the screws.

3. Between the screw head and fender washer I added a small lock washer to help keep pressure on the screws to keep them from inadvertenly backing out.

 

I'm not sure but I think the standard holes that Clearview puts in these new shields is the same as the OEM with 1 hole and 5 slots. It would be my advise that if you order a shield from them for a RSV, that you request that they provide 6 holes instead which will most certainly keep the shield in place.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Rick

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Just an observation here. Those windshields, stock or otherwise, are not held in place by the one screw hole, but rather by the clamping force that results from the overall pressure of the outer fairing to windshield to inner metal strip with its rubber liner, all clamping down due to the screws being tightened properly.

 

My ElectraGlide has the same arrangement, with only 3 screws holding it in place, and no 'holes' in the shield, only slots at the bottom. The inner fairing does provide a 'hold' on the clear plastic, due to the way it is made.

 

If Clearview redesigns the mounting slots, making them holes instead, you could STILL have an unfortunate situation, where if the clamping force is not sufficient, the shield could come loose at high speed, simply breaking the little bit of plastic on the bottom of the holes.

 

I think the better solution would be to provide (or require) slightly longer bolts, with locktite, and a warning in the box that those bolts must be tightened to such and such a torque value, and be inspected say, once a week or before any ride, to satisfy the lawyers.

 

James, Im sure sorry that happened, and I'm glad your OK...but as I see it, the fault may not be with Yamaha or Clearview, alone. Were all freinds here, but if this were a courtroom, and I was on the jury, I'd have to beleive that you have not proved that 100% of the fault lies with Yamaha and/or Clearview.

 

You may be a bit gun-shy about the Venture now, but after some time has passed, hopefully you will be able to enjoy the bike again.

 

 

Edited September 4, 2008 by tx2sturgis

[Mariner Fan]

I've been thinking about this problem for awhile now. I'm going to check into some longer bolts with lock nuts on the back and some small fender washers like you have suggested.

[James Ardrey]

Just an observation here. Those windshields, stock or otherwise, are not held in place by the one screw hole, but rather by the clamping force that results from the overall pressure of the outer fairing to windshield to inner metal strip with its rubber liner, all clamping down due to the screws being tightened properly.

 

My ElectraGlide has the same arrangement, with only 3 screws holding it in place, and no 'holes' in the shield, only slots at the bottom. The inner fairing does provide a 'hold' on the clear plastic, due to the way it is made.

 

If Clearview redesigns the mounting slots, making them holes instead, you could STILL have an unfortunate situation, where if the clamping force is not sufficient, the shield could come loose at high speed, simply breaking the little bit of plastic on the bottom of the holes.

 

I think the better solution would be to provide (or require) slightly longer bolts, with locktite, and a warning in the box that those bolts must be tightened to such and such a torque value, and be inspected say, once a week or before any ride, to satisfy the lawyers.

 

James, Im sure sorry that happened, and I'm glad your OK...but as I see it, the fault may not be with Yamaha or Clearview, alone. Were all freinds here, but if this were a courtroom, and I was on the jury, I'd have to beleive that you have not proved that 100% of the fault lies with Yamaha and/or Clearview.

 

You may be a bit gun-shy about the Venture now, but after some time has passed, hopefully you will be able to enjoy the bike again.

 

 

I am not a lawyer and this is not a jury and you made my point for me. I also wasn't trying to assign blame. I think you made the point with human error and the weakened shield and little room for error in the design of the shield support. A whole lot is riding on everything being done in perfect order to be safe. I am also not an engineer, but it is a piss poor design in my opinion that in order to be safe you inspect everytime you ride. Not practical for the masses that ride and not acceptable to me. I think I stated that I had the shield off approx. 2-3000 miles ago and tightened everything myself. Little margin in error between screws being tight enough and stripping the threads on the petite metal support. I have ridden approx. 70000 miles on this bike without incident. It took this incident to wake me up. I have always been skeptical to the design of the shield support and having one hole through the shield and the other 5 slots. I don't think I'm willing to stake my life on all the screws remaining in place and not loosening just enough to release the shield from the fairing. If your Harley just has 3 slots and no holes in shield if it is as large as the large clearview you are flirting with disaster. If one screw backed off or failed it would put an unnatural torque on the shield either causing it to break loose or come out of the fairing. There is a great deal of flexing in those flimsy fairings and relys on the whole system to remain in tact. At least if most or all screws went through holes and something backed off or failed you would probably be able to recognize a problem before complete failure like I experienced. Maybe not but I want as many back up safety design included as possible. As it is there is nothing but questionable pressure from the remaining screws that may or may not do it's job. I wouldn't bet on it.

[Carbon_One]

Having had 3 of these ClearView shields since owning my bike and reading these posts I thought I'd better recheck my latest shield I had just gotten. Probably have 2500-3000 miles on it since getting this one. It's a XXL with vent. Had some under the fairing work to attend to anyhow so now was as good time as any to check for problems.

None of my screws were loose in any way. I also don't think adding longer screws is needed as I measured mine an the screws were 1/8" longer than the material they go thru, including the metal bar with built in nuts. But might be a good idea if one is adding the larger fender style washer. One advantage would be perhaps easier starting the screws and then sliding the shield into place. My last two shields have 4 slotted notches and two holes for the screws to go thru. The holes were front and center under the vent.

All in all I'm a satisfied Clearview customer. I do sympathize with those of you have had problems and glad to hear there wasn't a more serious outcome, especially for James.

Discussions such as this is very educational and helps many of our members avoid problems down the road.

Larry

[hig4s]

I just removed mine to put in the BuddyRich Bluetooth cable for my Zumo. My XXL with vent has two holes and four slots also... \

 

My screws were all tight and my shield was firmly stuck to the rubber strip between it and the dash portion of the fairing.

[Rick Butler]

Guys,

 

Since it has been brought up as a possible solution to keep the windshield screws in, I thought I would bring up the issue of Loctite around ABS. DO NOT use Loctite around any of our ABS body parts. It is worse than brake fluid and even the vapors will cause ABS to fracture. Yeah, I learned this the hard way

 

Rick

[OB-1]

Guys,

 

Since it has been brought up as a possible solution to keep the windshield screws in, I thought I would bring up the issue of Loctite around ABS. DO NOT use Loctite around any of our ABS body parts. It is worse than brake fluid and even the vapors will cause ABS to fracture. Yeah, I learned this the hard way

 

Rick

 

Thanks for that bit of timely advice! I was just planning on using Loctite.

[James Ardrey]

Folks,

 

In all reality, I have never been satisfied by the manner that Yamaha only has one real bolt hole in their shields with the remaining holes being sloted. This means that if you inadvertently loose that screw (or the bottom part of the hole breaks out), then there is nothing holding the shield on except the pressure of the remaining screws and it's going to be in-your-face. In fact mine was one of the first 6 that Clearview built with their new design. And when I was talking to them about what size I wanted, I made a special request that they provide 6 holes rather than 1 hole and 5 slots like the OEM shield. And when I received it, I found that the holes were not circular but elongated. This worked out well for aligning the screw holes. And there are 2 other changes that I made to the mounting:

 

1. I got a set of stainless replacement button head allens that were 20mm long which gave more depth for the thicker shield.

2. I got a set of small 3/4" fender washers to allow better disbursement of pressure from the screws.

3. Between the screw head and fender washer I added a small lock washer to help keep pressure on the screws to keep them from inadvertenly backing out.

 

I'm not sure but I think the standard holes that Clearview puts in these new shields is the same as the OEM with 1 hole and 5 slots. It would be my advise that if you order a shield from them for a RSV, that you request that they provide 6 holes instead which will most certainly keep the shield in place.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Rick

Thanks Rick! I think I will definitely take these modifications into account when I get my new parts in. I didn't know that you could dictate to Clearview holes vs slots and until my mishap I wouldn't have thought I needed to. sounds like you were way ahead of the game. Did Clearview ask you why you requested holes vs slots and or I wonder why they didn't take heed at that time. I guess they probably took the lead that if it was good enough for OEM it was good enough.

[James Ardrey]

I sent an e-mail to clearview on 09-03 to John Lauk the salesman from Clearview with pics and a description of what happened. Mr. Lauk sent me an e-mail on 9-4 expressing concerns and gratitude that I was able to stop without losing control of my bike. He also stated that he had never had a failure of these shields before. He stated that Craig the owner would probably contact me tomorrow (9-5). He also left the 800 #,regular#, and Fax#. I tried to call on 3 seperate occasions and got a recording on two that they had too many incoming calls to answer and on one occasion it stated to call during regular business hrs. and it was still regular business hrs. I have not received a call from any authority from Clearview on this matter. I will keep everyone posted on any new information that I become aware of. Starting monday I will leave a message for returned call If I don't hear from Clearview.

[waterbug]

Glad to hear you are alright and trying to fix the problem. Like on the lock tight making the abs soft and able to crack becareful what you put on the clearview I am not sure what it is made of but some sealents like the urethane they use on car windshields will eat some plastics so you might want to use some of a little peice and check it first. Good luck

[James Ardrey]

I may have misunderstood Stardog but, I think he said he had broken tabs that hold the shield on and that the shield itself didn't break but came loose and flew over his head. I am curious how that happened without some windshield damage now that you mention it due to the one screw that goes through the shield and isn't a slot. Maybe Stardog will clarify my quandery.

[Mariner Fan]

I may have misunderstood Stardog but, I think he said he had broken tabs that hold the shield on and that the shield itself didn't break but came loose and flew over his head. I am curious how that happened without some windshield damage now that you mention it due to the one screw that goes through the shield and isn't a slot. Maybe Stardog will clarify my quandery.

 

Why would a broken tab allow a windshield to come loose? I'm curious too. My Clearview is the XXL and has the vent. I also have one broken tab that will have to be fixed.

[James Ardrey]

I just had a phone conversation with Craig of Clearview. He states this is a first for one of their shields breaking apart. I am requested to send my shield to clearview for further inspection. Maybe they can resolve this mystery and or improve the attachment issues already discussed. Thanks again for the responses to this post. If and whe I find out anything notable I will relay it here.

[jryan]

Hey James,

 

I just ordered a Clearview last week. When I read about your issue, I emailed John @ Clearview. On Sat he replied & said they were aware of it, looking into it, and would get back to me today (Mon) & let me know if they were making changes for the mounting of that shield.

 

Today he emailed back again & said the shield I'd be getting would have 2 holes & 4 slots. Guess that's a little better...!

 

It'll be interesting to see what they come up with as the cause of your issue...

 

Sorry to hear about your issue, but very glad you guys came thru it ok!

[az1103]

I occasionally was tempted to go for a windshield with vent but always wondered whether that might weaken it too much or make it too flexible. ... As to holes vs slots, one hole is needed for positioning - any more than that are pretty much unnecessary as the pull-out strength of that tiny piece of plastic is negligible compared to the friction force of a properly tightened windshield on the rubber covered steel strip. As to the adequacy of the srip, I find it inconceivable that it's size or strength is somehow inadequate!! Overdesigning is NOT always a good idea! A bulletproof fairing might be usefull on a battlefield but not in practical usage.

 

The need for properly tigtened fasteners is not limited to the windshield!!!!! And no ammount of engineering redundancy will override the need for proper installation and maintenance. You mention that one of the screws was missing altogether?! Does not that say that perhaps they were inadequately tightened, or not checked often enough or even perhaps that a windshield weakened by vent holes tends to flex and vibrate more than the standard windshield? Or perhaps even all of those thing together?

 

Glad you are alright, sounds like someone up there was watching out for you! But don't be too quick to blame Yamaha, they didn't install an XXL overly-flexible windshield, you did....

 

I can't agree with the statement that somehow the front faring is inadequately designed or too flexible. I have been riding for a looong time and have yet to find a bike desighed like a Humvee. Nor am I sure that I would care to ride one.

[James Ardrey]

I occasionally was tempted to go for a windshield with vent but always wondered whether that might weaken it too much or make it too flexible. ... As to holes vs slots, one hole is needed for positioning - any more than that are pretty much unnecessary as the pull-out strength of that tiny piece of plastic is negligible compared to the friction force of a properly tightened windshield on the rubber covered steel strip. As to the adequacy of the srip, I find it inconceivable that it's size or strength is somehow inadequate!! Overdesigning is NOT always a good idea! A bulletproof fairing might be usefull on a battlefield but not in practical usage.

 

The need for properly tigtened fasteners is not limited to the windshield!!!!! And no ammount of engineering redundancy will override the need for proper installation and maintenance. You mention that one of the screws was missing altogether?! Does not that say that perhaps they were inadequately tightened, or not checked often enough or even perhaps that a windshield weakened by vent holes tends to flex and vibrate more than the standard windshield? Or perhaps even all of those thing together?

 

Glad you are alright, sounds like someone up there was watching out for you! But don't be too quick to blame Yamaha, they didn't install an XXL overly-flexible windshield, you did....

 

I can't agree with the statement that somehow the front faring is inadequately designed or too flexible. I have been riding for a looong time and have yet to find a bike desighed like a Humvee. Nor am I sure that I would care to ride one.

I think you need to reread this post from front to back. All areas of concern have been discussed. There is a lot of grey area between the fairing and a HumV. I have been riding for a long time also. Please don't let your ego get in the way and cloud your judgement. It is also not about assigning blame as finding solutions. Too important to get wrong. Besides you just posed many of the same questions that have already been posed by me and others on this post.

[V7Goose]

Personally, I have absolutely NO concerns about the RSV windshield mounting system (other than those weenie little plastic tabs that break off the inside fairing, but I have documented an easy fix for those in the tech library). I find the mounting system very secure. Even when those little tabs are broken, the shield is not less secure - the bracket and shield just flex together a bit more on the sides.

 

First, before someone starts yelling about how the mounting bracket is just too thin to provide proper security for the screw threads, they REALLY should actually look at it! The screws are NOT threaded directly into the bracket - there are FULL SIZED NUTS welded onto the rear of the bracket! And the stock screws are long enough to go completely through those nuts.

 

I just had my windshield off this weekend, so I paid particular attention to all the things that people seem to be so afraid of in this thread. IMHO, the existing bracket with rubber strip provides a tight friction fit between the windshield and the fairing even when the screws are loose to remove the windshield. No, that does NOT mean I think it would hold the shield in place if the screws were left loose, just that there is PLENTY of surface area to completely secure the shield when the screws are properly tightened.

 

I would not want a shield with all holes and no slots for the screws - that would make it unnecessarily difficult to install the shield. I wouldn't have any complaints if there were two holes instead of just one, but I don't really feel the need for it either. When my shield is attached, there is absolutely no way I could pull or wiggle it loose.

 

My last comment is on a slightly different note. When I high-sided my 05 last summer by sliding into a curb, I went THROUGH the windshield (stock shield cut down by 1.5"). The top edge hit me square in the collar bone and shattered it good (you can still see the permanent dent in the soft armor of my Joe Rocket jacket). But the force of my body did bend the shield forward and rip it from the mounting, tearing some of the ABS plastic in the outside fairing shell where the screws held it. Even with this, the shield did NOT come completely off the bike! The corner of the shield where the one hole is in the middle was broken off and the shield came loose from the center and right sides, but it was still held on by the mounting screws on the left side. I think that is pretty good evidence that the existing mounting system is kinda secure!

 

You certainly do not need to share my confidence in this, but the sky isn't falling either!

Goose

[James Ardrey]

Is it possible goose that that little bit of flex you spoke of be more pronounced with a 4'' wider and 1" taller shield and with a vent hole. There is considerably more pressure than the stock shield. I certainly haven't drawn any definite conclusions just trying to figure out how my shield failed. i would have probably been right there with you before this experience. Now I am not going to leave anything to chance or make any assumptions. Like I said in the beginning what you do with this info. is up to you. This is not a debate.Just like most mc rallies, they say to leave your attitude at the entrance.

[DNBoll]

Greetings all!

 

Last Saturday I spent all day with Craig at "Clearview." His main objective was to get to the bottom of your "shield" problem. I can assure you all that Craig has taken this incident very seriously! With my bike as the test sample, (2007 RSV) we removed the parts & windshield. When we removed the chrome piece covering the windshield screws, we found one of the center screws very loose & about to fall out. The stock shield has only one hole & 5 slots. Craig's original design added another hole in the middle & had 4 slots. Craig came up with a new design that eliminated the slots & added more material to better stabilize the "Shield." I think it would be next to impossible to ever loose a "Shield" with Craig's new design. The new design will be incorporated immediately. No old style "Shields" will be shipped is what Craig said. We also looked at ways of improving the shield support particularly the two outside screw locations. This seems to be a Yamaha idea in need of improvement. More later on this issue. Once again, rest assured that Craig took this mishap very seriously!

 

Thanks, DNB