NAPA Thermostat, Starter refurb

[Gearhead]

I finally pulled the thermostat housing and starter off my VR. My starter drags when hot, so I wanted to clean out the brushes, etc. Plus, I had a SLIGHT coolant leak out of one end of the elbow. I can't say it was a fun job. I realized the RH head pipe was in my way so I tried to remove it; couldn't get it out of the collector, but it did move forward enough to work around it. Well, you know how these things go. But nothing got broken, I have some factory parts in shipping and matched up all the o-rings at a bearing shop.

 

I just bought a NAPA 156 T-stat as recommended by y'all. Mine was working OK, but while I'm in there... Somebody (forget who) said to be sure to ask for the "heavy duty" version. I did and the guy tried a couple ways of cross-referencing it, but it ended up that the number 156 only refers to one t-stat - there is no heavy duty. Did most of you just get the plain ol' 156? Also, I can't get it out of the housing - the rubber gasket is stuck pretty tight in there. Any suggestions?

 

The starter has a bearing in the back by the brushes. Does it come off the shaft for cleaning and lubing? It's not really that dirty in the starter, I don't think cleaning is going to solve the hot-cranking problem. How much are those fat battery cables?

 

Jeremy

[Yammer Dan]

Cables will make BIG diffference but cleaning starter is good for it and probally make it last longer. Be nice if you had brushes while you were in there.

[Dano]

TupperJ has the cables, about 35 bucks for a set. He's down in Cincinnati.

 

Dan

[Squeeze]

Jeremy,

 

you need to make up an extra Wire between the Brushes Ground Plate and the actual Starter Casing.

 

Yammi has Tabs on that Plate which doesn't make good Contact when the Motor is hot.

 

http://members.chello.nl/c.cornwall/Home.html

 

The Cables aren't a bad Idea either, but this Wire inside the Starter Motor will get you over the Hump.

[SilvrT]

Did most of you just get the plain ol' 156?

 

I believe that's what I used. Has worked great now for 3 yrs.

[Gdserlin]

I had the same problem with the gasket. I ordered a new thermo cover and gasket from "Boats.net". Got the part number from the diagrams somewhere on this web site. It was not expenseive, less then $ 15.00 but took about 10 days. If the gasket cannot be removed, then my experience was that that it would leak when reisntalled and ordering a new thermo cover was the only solution.

 

I also added 4 gauge cables (made my own) and a new sealed gell battery (Odessy PC ___can't remember). This made a big difference. However, I wish I had known about adding the extra wire. I think I will do that as well. But I cannot visualize where this "jumper" wire goes.

[Gearhead]

I just mounted my starter before Squeeze's excellent suggestion, but haven't put anything else on like the t-stat, so I can pull it back off easily and do the wire. The brush plate is the main ground path for the starter, from there to the end cap (thru the bent tabs) to the engine case thru the mounting bolts. I wish there were a pic of the actual wire inside, but I visualize a short piece of 12 ga wire with a ring terminal on each end, one under a screw in the brush plate and the other under a screw in the end cap, and tucked into the end of the cap upon assembly. I'll also put a little extra bend in the tabs and clean up their points of contact. I'm about to go out to the garage and tackle it, so I'll let you know how it goes.

 

As for the t-stat, my problem was not getting the cover and it's o-ring out (I did order new ones, BTW), but getting the t-stat itself out of the housing as it sits in a rubber gasket or holder.

 

Jeremy

[Gearhead]

So I did the brush-plate-ground-wire mod. It's pretty much how I envisioned it, as I described above. Here are a few specifics. There is plenty of room in the end cap. Both brushes fit in one "hemisphere" (misused, but the best I can think of), so the other is just free space between the commutator and the cap. My ground wire is around 2" long, 12 ga, ring terminals soldered each end. One end is under the existing screw that secures the ground brush lead (the brush that is not isolated from the plate). The wire then goes maybe 120 degrees around thru the empty space to a screw I put in the end cap. I drilled and tapped for 6-32 and installed with Loctite a 1/2" long screw from the outside. The ring terminal goes on the protruding end inside, with a lock washer and nut, also with Loctite. I made the wire go as far around the circumference as possible to allow some extra wire length while installing the wire in the cap and the cap onto the starter.

 

I did notice that the 3 bent ground tabs weren't bent up very far for firm contact, and the mating surfaces were pitted. I cleaned them up and bent them more for better grounding that way as well. This is the most promising opportunity for improvement I've seen so far, thanks Squeeze! I'm also resoldering the ends of the batt cables and supplementing my ground wires.

 

I got the t-stat changed out. As some noted, the new one does not have a jiggle valve, which I think is just a one-way air bleed to prevent entrapped air. The new one instead has a tiny indentation in the sealing surface of the moving element. In other words, a tiny leak. I'm assuming it's for the same purpose.

 

Still on the centerstand, though. I'm installing zerks in the rear suspension linkage, changing out some of the bushings, have to finish with the rear wheel bearing...it never ends!

 

Jeremy

[Squeeze]

Jeremy,

 

i think the mostly hot Environment you're facing most of the Time doesn't help in such technical Quirks on an old Bike like ours.

 

The internal Design of the Starter Motor, to be specific the Grounding of the Brush Plate, gets even weaker and weaker when its hot most of the Time.

 

I'm quite sure Yammi changed the Design on their newer Bikes (not on the 2Gen's tough) because they sure want to make Money but not because of their poor Design. They just learn their Lesson.

 

This Mod has made made its Way through the V4-Community and done once, you won't hear anything about a weak Starter anymore.

[Gearhead]

So the Venture's been back on the road for a couple weeks now. Here's what I can report:

 

The NAPA 156 T-stat is working fine; runs a little hotter than the stock one, maybe 5-10 degrees. The gage now camps just a little under half under optimal cooling conditions (steady low-speed cruise, cool weather), where it used to run at the little break in the line at 1/3. The weather is no longer hot, so I dunno how it will fare in hot temps. I suspect it will be the same as before in hot temps, as the T-stat probably wasn't the limiting factor in extreme cooling situations. The set point just appears to be higher.

 

The starter is working well, but I have to add that I haven't really done many hot starts on it. The cooler weather makes the problem less anyway. So it's not been thoroughly tested, but so far so good.

 

The zerks in the rear suspension linkage are nice. I hope to add a squirt to them at every oil change. But when laying them out, pay attention to the direction they will face. Two of mine at the middle joint face straight down, and they are the lowest-hanging object in the vicinity meaning that it's only a matter of time until they get caught on something. I'm gonna replace them with the low-profile needle-type.

 

Jeremy

[CrazyHorse]

I have a similiar start problem upgraded battery cables didnt help I didnt notice a difference. Maybe I'll try this wire in the starter.

[Gearhead]

I've been using the "upgraded" starter for maybe 2 months with no problem. The weather has not been hot, which used to exacerbate the problem, but I have done some hot engine starts and it always cranks right over. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't crank like a banshee or anything, but it's always adequate to get the job done, where before sometimes it would be BARELY adequate.

 

Jeremy

[IH Truck Guy]

It's threads like this one that will keep our old iron on the road for another 25 years.

Thanks guys...

[Yammer Dan]

It's threads like this one that will keep our old iron on the road for another 25 years.

Thanks guys...

 

Yep, this is a good one..