What WE MAKE cagers think

[jfoster]

I agree Marcarl 100% with all you said. Especially the left and right tracks when on a two/three lane same direction. I have preached this to all who have road with me when I see them on the wrong side. Your just more visible that way. I have also seen some riding two up on a two lane divided and riding on the right track. So wrong, the traffic behind that first vehicle does not even know you are there. I think maybe they are so afraid of the oncoming traffic, that they go to the right track.I wished that everyone would follow your advise on all this. THANK YOU.....

Fuzzy

 

I'm gonna argue the differ....I just can't see how riding in the left track on a two lane road is safe whether your alone or the front rider. 1: If someone is overly aggressive and wants to pass another vehicle, they're are not gonna see you until they're almost on top of you versus being in the right track where your more visible from a greater distance. 2: Semi's are always blowing tires out, loads shift, etc. Do you really think it's safe to pass one at three to four feet apart or eight to ten. Again, if someone is directly behind it and wants to step out to pass, its even harder for them to see you if your in the left tract. 3: in an emergency

situation, someone crosses the center line, it's gonna take alot more distance to swerve right to miss them in the left trac vs the right. I personally want that area of cushion to avoid being hit head-on.

[saddlebum]

I'm gonna argue the differ....I just can't see how riding in the left track on a two lane road is safe whether your alone or the front rider. 1: If someone is overly aggressive and wants to pass another vehicle, they're are not gonna see you until they're almost on top of you versus being in the right track where your more visible from a greater distance. 2: Semi's are always blowing tires out, loads shift, etc. Do you really think it's safe to pass one at three to four feet apart or eight to ten. Again, if someone is directly behind it and wants to step out to pass, its even harder for them to see you if your in the left tract. 3: in an emergency

situation, someone crosses the center line, it's gonna take alot more distance to swerve right to miss them in the left trac vs the right. I personally want that area of cushion to avoid being hit head-on.

I am not sure what your definition of left track is. However mine is definitly not riding the left edge of the lane but rather left of the center line of said lane, in a position were the vehicale ahead can see you in his rear view. In the case of were a cager in on coming traffic wishes to use your lane to pass vehicles ahead of him, if you are in the right track following a car, you will be hidden from view from that cager wishing to make a passing move. He will only see a gap behind the car in front of you and will assume once the car in front of you has gone by, he will be free and clear to borrow your lane. If while riding the left track there is no car in front of you, you simply stay alert and should you notice an opposing cager is about to pull into your lane for the purpose of passing, you simply drift to the center of your lane to get his attention, and unless the guy is a real jerk he will notice you and pull back. I also have no problem riding the center of my lane if there are no cars in front of me, but if there are I stay in the left track. But most of all I ride the tracks as Marcarl described adjusting my position as needed, playing the angles to were I am at all times as visible as possible to any and all cagers and in a way to show I own my little piece of the road. Now given that no one technique is 100% fool proof, I also try to remain aware of possible escape routes should one be suddnly needed.

Edited January 26, 2012 by saddlebum

[MikeM]

What do we make cagers think when we share the road, and related thoughts.

 

First, lets accept the fact that an accident is the fault of those involved, in our case the rider and the cager.

My blood pressure raises every time I hear someone use the word ACCIDENT to describe a wreck.

There are VERY FEW that are really accidents(something mechanical breaks, force of nature etc.).

We all know the consequences of not paying 100% attention while driving. That said, WE CHOOSE to fiddle with the phone or radio,talk to passengers, look off at something etc. etc.

If something happens because of a driver not paying 100% attention to their driving....

IT WAS A CHOICE! They CHOSE to not pay attention so it was ON PURPOSE!

NOT A ACCIDENT!

I'll step down from my soap box now.

[Marcarl]

My blood pressure raises every time I hear someone use the word ACCIDENT to describe a wreck.

There are VERY FEW that are really accidents(something mechanical breaks, force of nature etc.).

We all know the consequences of not paying 100% attention while driving. That said, WE CHOOSE to fiddle with the phone or radio,talk to passengers, look off at something etc. etc.

If something happens because of a driver not paying 100% attention to their driving....

IT WAS A CHOICE! They CHOSE to not pay attention so it was ON PURPOSE!

NOT A ACCIDENT!

I'll step down from my soap box now.

I can agree to you,,,,, the word accident I used as a generic term, guess I could have used collision, but that would limit the description.

[saddlebum]

I can agree to you,,,,, the word accident I used as a generic term, guess I could have used collision, but that would limit the description.

how about motor victim

[radian]

So many good points here.

 

The main thing I've always had on my mind is: "if it can go wrong, it will go wrong". I've used that mindset in my experiences in production, and carried it into my riding.

 

Just being watchful and expecting someone to pull out in front of you helps. I'm not saying it will always work, but I feel the mindset is important. (We have a fellow PGR rider that recently was hit by a van making a left turn from the right lane right beside him. He had no reaction time even to apply any braking before it hit him and his head hit the van. Prayers will be appreciated, he's not doing well).

 

Also, as I learned from my aviation training. If you think you are good enough and won't ever have to experience an incident or accident, that's your first mistake. Expect the worst. Prepare for the worst, and you will be safer.

 

I also have NO problem flashing anybody if I think they might be considering pulling out in front of me. and everyone is right, being visible is the key.

 

This demonstration can show just how easy it is for cagers to NOT see us. Try it.

http://www.msf-usa.org/motion.html

 

Watch for and Ride more upright and slower with any water, gravel and even leaves (remember, a bunch of leaves can be as slick as ice in the right conditions) on the road.

Always wear at least half gloves. Ride with your fancy colored lights on at night, not just because they're pretty, but it helps cagers see you. Try reflective colored tape on your bike, and even reflective helmet sticker.

 

Ride and be safe everyone!

 

[BigLenny]

Time and time again you see discussions on here, and have personal discussions face to face with motorcyclist about how big, bad and stupid people driving cages are. A lot of the times, these discussions are leaned toward cage drivers being totally inadequate when it comes to the act of driving a motor vehicle, and surely they are all like the blind leading the blind because they never seem to see motorcycles. LOL.

 

Well, I like to read Rider Magazine on a fairly regular basis. Within the last year or so (I wish I would've kept the article), I read an article they did about an extensive study that showed that over 70% of all motorcycle accidents/wrecks were caused by rider error. The study showed that only something like 15%-16% percent of the hundreds of motorcycle accidents they studied were caused by blatant negligence by another motor vehicle. In that over 70% that was rider error, there were certainly a number of wrecks that involved another vehicle. But, it was determined that the motorcycle rider had done something that caused, or could've prevented the accident. Tons of motorcycle incidents happen by themselves (riding too fast, missing an apex of a turn, talkng to a passenger, etc). A number that was larger than the 15-16% was the percentage of incidents involving animals in the road. The article talked about how dangerous that is.

 

It's funny to me that there's so much emphasis between all of us in the bike world put on paying attention to that poor ole sap in the cage that just might jump out and bite ya, and I believe we certainly should focus on that, but the real, more inherant danger is our own absent mindness while we're riding.

 

That's just my .02 that I wanted to throw in.

[CaptainJoe]

I think these kinds of studies are... lacking?

 

The reasoning is : No motorcylist in their right mind is going to hit "anything" they can avoid, as they "Know" they are going to be on the "$**T" end of the stick if they do.

 

Therefore... it becomes a "failure to control" ones motorcycle.... and that in my opinion is ludicris...

[Yammy]

Good post, amazing how we do so much on instinct. Just a few thoughts that most of us already know. My wife and son took a defensive riding course together when just starting out and I heard them talking about push steering around obstacles. I had never heard about it before, push left to go left? I never thought about how I was turning before, just leaned the bike.. Push steering changes direction rapidly which might give us a couple of inches.

Looking at a drivers eyes when coming into an intersection doesn't help, some are looking right through you. I watch for front tire movement.

[PBJ]

First let me say all in all good riding tips . So more obvious than others. Secondly I agree with Big Lenny that too many times ( but not all) it is driver error on the motorcyclists part. The general age of motorcyclist is between 45 and 60 we are an aging group especially in the touring section. Motorcycling is a SPORT. its just one we do on the highways of our nation. It is a trained skill that not all have or appreciate. Riding tired, being out of shape brings on fatigue that much faster and reflexes slow.

 

Which brings me to my second point, as we get older many of us turn to trikes. And some don't realize that these machine have a whole new learning curve. Carl's recommendation here are good for a bike but a disaster for someone starting out on a trike for the first time. Riding the left lane can unwittingly put a rear tire (or front on one of those new Spyders) over the line into the other lane. A disaster waiting to happen.

 

Having ridden a sidecar for almost 15 years i had to have two sets of skills. Its important that in this SPORT that we all Love so much hat we understand that each machine, each road and each riding environment has its own set of rules and it is us the riders that must always be adapting to them. Heck that's half the fun anyway isn't it. Finding a new road, a new challenge to our skills and a willingness to learn how to conquer a section of highway. Its the getting there that's the challenge. We don't always ride necessarily to get somewhere, the ride is the thing....

[SilvrT]

Good post, amazing how we do so much on instinct. Just a few thoughts that most of us already know. My wife and son took a defensive riding course together when just starting out and I heard them talking about push steering around obstacles. I had never heard about it before, push left to go left? I never thought about how I was turning before, just leaned the bike.. Push steering changes direction rapidly which might give us a couple of inches.

Looking at a drivers eyes when coming into an intersection doesn't help, some are looking right through you. I watch for front tire movement.

 

push left to go left.... push right to go right .... is commonly known as "counter steering". It's "counter" because if you push left, the wheel will turn towards the right... normally if the wheel turns to the right, you'd go right ... in a cage, or at slow speeds on a scoot.... but once you're above appx 10 or 15 mph, counter steering comes into play.

 

If you use counter steering (instead of leaning) you'll find it much easier to ride ... let your body stay perpendicular with the bike and use counter steering to control direction, the bike will lean on it's own.

[Trader]

Heck that's half the fun anyway isn't it. Finding a new road, a new challenge to our skills and a willingness to learn how to conquer a section of highway. Its the getting there that's the challenge. We don't always ride necessarily to get somewhere, the ride is the thing....

 

 

I totally agree its all about the ride....but too many people "challange" their skills and try to Conquer a section of highway end up dead.

 

I enjoy corners...maybe too much. There were many times I pushed it to the limit and scared myself. All the "what if's" come to mind.

 

Part of the reason I bought a VR was because I enjoyed the sports bikes too much and I wanted to force myself to adopt a more leisurely ride. I still enjoy scraping the pegs but overall it's just enjoying the fresh air, the smells of the country air, and the view. Rarely is it for the adrenalin rush any more.

[WCody]

"IF you use countersteering"?

 

There is no "if" about it. Countersteering is what causes the lean of the bike, whether the rider knows that is what they are doing or not.

 

There are some body steering techniques also but, they are not as effective as countersteering.

 

Every rider should learn and practice countersteering as it is a skill that will someday save your life.

 

Oh, MSF instructor here. Which is probably why I am so adamant about this. ;-)

 

There are several gentle curves on the way to my father's place which have crosses on various trees from where poor riders have crashed and killed themselves. I always shake my head and think to myself, "if only they had learned how to countersteer".

 

Regards,

 

push left to go left.... push right to go right .... is commonly known as "counter steering". It's "counter" because if you push left, the wheel will turn towards the right... normally if the wheel turns to the right, you'd go right ... in a cage, or at slow speeds on a scoot.... but once you're above appx 10 or 15 mph, counter steering comes into play.

 

If you use counter steering (instead of leaning) you'll find it much easier to ride ... let your body stay perpendicular with the bike and use counter steering to control direction, the bike will lean on it's own.

[Marcarl]

"IF you use countersteering"?

 

There is no "if" about it. Countersteering is what causes the lean of the bike, whether the rider knows that is what they are doing or not.

 

There are some body steering techniques also but, they are not as effective as countersteering.

 

Every rider should learn and practice countersteering as it is a skill that will someday save your life.

 

Oh, MSF instructor here. Which is probably why I am so adamant about this. ;-)

 

There are several gentle curves on the way to my father's place which have crosses on various trees from where poor riders have crashed and killed themselves. I always shake my head and think to myself, "if only they had learned how to countersteer".

 

Regards,

Maybe good idea to read ones post before hitting the submit button. Somehow this post gets me confused. Please help me out. Thanks.

[BradT]

Maybe good idea to read ones post before hitting the submit button. Somehow this post gets me confused. Please help me out. Thanks.

 

Just like most of your posts.

 

 

Brad

[Flyinfool]

Maybe good idea to read ones post before hitting the submit button. Somehow this post gets me confused. Please help me out. Thanks.

It made sense to me......

 

What part has you cornfused?

[CaptainJoe]

This is an old post 07?

 

I'm with Don on this one.

 

We all need to keep our concentration on the task at hand.

Even the smallest distraction can be your last.

 

Move your eyes, focus.

repeat...

[Marcarl]

It made sense to me......

 

What part has you cornfused?

Line 2 has me confused.

[Flyinfool]

Just what line 2 says.

It is almost impossible to initiate a turn without counter steering. Everyone does it, most do not realize that they do it.

 

Drive thru a wet spot on the pavement. Once you get onto dry pavement start a turn. Now go back and look at your tire tracks that you just made. You will see that the front wheel first went to the right to start a left hand turn, or to the left to start a right hand turn. This is counter steering.

 

Now try to make that turn so that the tire tracks do not show counter steering. Get your $5 dropped bike donation ready. If you just turn the bars to the right and hold them there, you will instantly fall over to the left.

 

What his point is. Once you learn what counter steering is, you will be able to initiate that emergency turn quicker by not waiting for you brain to have to process all of the steps. Every split second counts in an emergency maneuver.

[WCody]

Hi Marcarl,

 

I was referring to what SilvrT said two posts above mine when he said, "If you use countersteering...".

 

Sorry if that was confusing. ;-)

 

I should have quoted from his post to show what I was referring to.

 

Best regards,

 

Bill

 

Line 2 has me confused.