What WE MAKE cagers think

[Flyinfool]

I agree with Dave

There is no one correct lane position to cover every scenario.

I tend to use the entire lane depending on traffic, (whether in my direction or oncoming), road condition, ambient light condition, type of road (city or rural or country), weather condition.

 

You could write a book on all of the variables.

 

But by using ALL of my lane and going back and forth as conditions change moment by moment, and yard by yard, the cagers must think I am nuts or impaired and tend to keep well clear of me. I have found that the more you weave in your lane the farther back they stay. Which is good, it means that they are watching my every move closely.

 

I tend to give wider berth to dangers that I can see exist vs the dangers that MIGHT be there.

For instance, if on a 2 lane I prefer to be in the left track to give the best chance of seeing the deer that might be there or the car pulling out of a blind drive type of thing, but as soon as there is an oncoming car, that presents a real and current danger as opposed to the possible danger of a deer, so I will move to the right track till it is safe to get back to the left track.

 

Unless some other condition forces me, I will almost never ride in the left track with oncoming traffic, they are just to close and I see cars drift over the line way to often. Also when going around a left curve I see way to many bikes in the left track lean out over the center line even though their tires are still in the left track. It puts their face in a perfect position to find the side mirror on my truck.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Flyinfool

[Guest seuadr]

I recently saw an interview with Rush drummer Neil Peart, who is an avid motorcyclist. I think it was in the AMA magazine. One thing that stuck with me was his lane positioning.

 

If he is riding on a two-lane (one lane each direction) highway as an independent vehicle (not following or being followed), he will ride in the right track with approaching traffic. His idea is that it allows approaching cars in platoon to see him earlier. That let's cars know that there is an on-coming vehicle and that it is not safe to pass.

 

Since adopting this strategy myself, I have seen on-coming cars drift out and look, see me, and drift back.

 

On the other hand, deer can be a danger on our rural roads. I stay in the left track unless there is oncoming traffic, because I want to give myself as much time and distance away from potential threats grazing along the road.

 

I carefully choose my tracks to increase my visibility and my reaction time. Good thread.

 

Dave

 

interesting. i was wondering if i was the only one that did this, and apperantly not! i mostly ride alone.. i didn't even really notice that i did this until someone i was riding with for the first time pointed it out. he wanted us to run in a side by side formation, but never got to get right next to me because i kept moving and apperantly it peeved him off. didn't sit well with him when i explained that in most situations where you wanna move quick it's kinda moronic to be right next to another bike because you have to choose between hitting whatever you want to avoid, and the bike next to you

[davecb]

Just make sure, that when some fool pulls out in front of you, cuts you off, etc,,

 

Giveem a SALUTE.......

[Yeah, Just Dale]

Another thing to keep in mind is that cage drivers sometimes just misjudge how far away a bike is. If you live and ride in "the north" (call it above the Mason-Dixon line) motorcycles are most prevalent in the summer. Spring and fall are very weather dependent. Cage drivers are used to seeing other cars and trucks all year round. When they look down the road they see an image of vehicle and based on the size of that image they make a quick mental (though subconcious) calculation of how far, and how fast that vehicle is. That mental conditioning doesn't always account for the smaller image that is seen of a motorcycle at the same distance. So they look down the road, see a bike coming, assume that it's farther away that it and think they have the room and the time to make the left hand turn. How many of these kinds of accidents do you read about where the driver says "the bike came out of nowwhere" or "bike must have been speeding cause all of a sudden he was right there"? Bike may or may not have been speeding but it's just as likely that the driver was wrong in the initial estimation of how far away the bike was to begin with. Also remember reading somewhere that a pencil held at arms length is enough to obscure the image of a motorcycle at 500 feet or something like that. Anyway, gotta ride like they're ALL out to kill ya!

[Renne]

Great thread, especially for the newer riders as well a refresher for us "seasoned" survivors !

I've found over the years the one main defense for me has been just that, "defense". I tell myself every time I set out that I must remember that "everyone" that shares the road with me is out to kill me...I ride for pleasure mostly and I try to balance that pleasure with the knowledge that I'm in enemy territory and still enjoy the ride. I "know" in every instance the cage ahead about to pull out from a side road/driveway is just waiting for me. The "slightest" movement of his/her front tire is my indicator that he/she is about to "pounce" on me! Same with wildlife (see below).

 

I "know" that I can NEVER run a stop or assume a yield because "someone" is always right on time to broadside me. I "know" the tailgater is a young female on her cell who would never never suspect a deer/raccoon/elephant is just waiting patiently in the tall grass (really tall for the elephant) to "jump" out in front of me (not the elephant) . Somewhere forgotten (not the elephant) is the one car length per 10 mph follow rule!

 

I "know" the left turn dude is not gonna wait, he's gonna turn, it's in his DNA, most right handed people will turn left in front of you, I don't know why that is but they do it. Left handed people do it too but you don't see that as often because there's not as many.

 

Now for the "stoplight/ intersection" section. "NEVER NEVER NEVER" assume "GREEN" means "GO" or "RED" means "STOP"! "YELLOW means "In God we trust"! The dude to the right may have the right of way but try telling that to a senior lost, a junior late! Better not to argue, the bike weights less,,,by a lot!......

 

Oh ya, we won't even go into the DWI/DUI thing cause we all know "EVERYONE" is, if not, why do they do what they do?

 

Combine all the above "traps" set by fate and/or stupidity and you get my drift.

 

If at all possible, take some advise from a "seasoned survivor", take the back roads if at all possible. Slow down, leave early. Cruise "in the wind", embrace the peace and balance of beautiful scenery, the aroma of fresh tilled fields and moist lake shores. The flashing shadows cast by towering trees and the rhythm of the white strips combined with V4 rumble reduces blood pressure, you'll live longer as you relax in the absence of "cages" but alert always for the occasional "elephant"...........................

 

Renne.........Surviving the "elephant" for 50 riding years.

[timgray]

....what frosts me are the other riders who are sooo aggressive they nearly ride the white dotted lines, floating from lane to lane to get ahead of the traffic one vehicle at a time, often splitting the lane to get between two cagers who are side-by-side. What must the cagers think of us when they see this type of riding.....

 

I really agree with that.

 

Lane splitting at 70mph is only done by complete and total idiots. I point out to people on a regular basis that the people that do that stuff are not Bikers, just a really dumb moped rider that accidentally bought a motorcycle.

[Flyinfool]

...what frosts me are the other riders who are sooo aggressive they nearly ride the white dotted lines, floating from lane to lane to get ahead of the traffic one vehicle at a time, often splitting the lane to get between two cagers who are side-by-side. What must the cagers think of us when they see this type of riding....

 

My

 

Is that still "legal" even if unwise in some places like CA.?

[midnightventure]

I move all over my lane. I try to position myself where that car that is about to pull out can see me even though I am behind another vehicle. If I am going down the road and somebody pulls up to an intersection I will weave back and forth in my lane. I believe this is very effective at getting them to notice me.

[SilvrT]

I recently saw an interview with Rush drummer Neil Peart, who is an avid motorcyclist. I think it was in the AMA magazine. One thing that stuck with me was his lane positioning.

 

If he is riding on a two-lane (one lane each direction) highway as an independent vehicle (not following or being followed), he will ride in the right track with approaching traffic. His idea is that it allows approaching cars in platoon to see him earlier. That let's cars know that there is an on-coming vehicle and that it is not safe to pass.

 

Since adopting this strategy myself, I have seen on-coming cars drift out and look, see me, and drift back.

 

On the other hand, deer can be a danger on our rural roads. I stay in the left track unless there is oncoming traffic, because I want to give myself as much time and distance away from potential threats grazing along the road.

 

I carefully choose my tracks to increase my visibility and my reaction time. Good thread.

 

Dave

 

Exactly what I pointed out earlier in the thread. Consider this scenario....

 

You're somewhere back in a string of traffic, looking for a passing opportunity. There's a car coming towards you but still a ways down the road... it has it's lights on (as most do) but one of them is not working. Will you see that car sooner (when you poke out to see if any traffic is approaching) if it's Right headlight is NOT working or when it's Left headlight is NOT working??

 

The answer of course is when it's RIGHT headlight IS working and thus the reason to ride in the right lane if you're the oncoming vehicle.

 

(now don't go getting yourself all twisted around between which is right and which is left on the oncoming vehicle's headlights LOL)

[saddlebum]

I do most of those things as well. I commute in heavy rush hour traffic and I always do what it takes to make sure I OWN MY LANE. In multi-lane traffic I ride the left track in the right lane, the right track in the left lane. I've done this just to make sure some moron doesn't think he can share my lane. In the center lane I tend to center and drift a little towards right track then to left track. More lights always helps.

 

I've always ridden with this in mind.

 

No matter how RIGHT you are, you still lose.

 

 

I mostly do the same on one occasion many years ago while riding with a friend I stayed over to the left track of the left lane so my riding partner could take the right track. Next thing I knew a cager passed the vehicle in the right lane by driving between me and the other vehicle, almost putting me in the gaurd rail. A lesson well learned and never forgotten.

[Taking it EZ]

Lots of great info on lane position, lights, etc. I'm one of those It's my lane and i"m gonna use the whole thing kind of guys. One thing I didn't read about though is sound. I'm installing a dual air horn on my RSV like I had on my classic CB750C Honda. When one of those brain damaged cagers decides to do something stupid, a good blast of a semi horn in their ear usually tends to get their attention

[zooer]

Great information here on this thread. If I had to pick one thing that I was allowed to teach a new rider it would be, always stay visible to those coming toward you and to anyone you are behind. Keep yourself in the drivers mirror for as long as you can when passing, run your high-beam during the day, and stay way in the left track of your lane when approaching any intersection so the guy who may want to turn left can see you, and don't don't don't ever tailgate since that makes you a hidden object! If you are following someone drop back some at all intersections. Again, stay visible.

[CaptainJoe]

I never let anyone ride in the same lane as me...

 

A staggered formation is ok but not doubled up in the same lane..

[Marcarl]

Exactly what I pointed out earlier in the thread. Consider this scenario....

 

You're somewhere back in a string of traffic, looking for a passing opportunity. There's a car coming towards you but still a ways down the road... it has it's lights on (as most do) but one of them is not working. Will you see that car sooner (when you poke out to see if any traffic is approaching) if it's Right headlight is NOT working or when it's Left headlight is NOT working??

 

The answer of course is when it's RIGHT headlight IS working and thus the reason to ride in the right lane if you're the oncoming vehicle.

 

(now don't go getting yourself all twisted around between which is right and which is left on the oncoming vehicle's headlights LOL)

In addition to this thought, is that if you are a MC and only have a small profile, you tend to blend with the scenery on the side of the road, and if then you are running your low beam, you really are not making much of an impression, maybe better to be running on the right side of the the left track.

The other thing that happens,,, and that's the type of thinking that got me started on this thread,,,, is what does the cager coming towards you think if you are riding the right hand track. There is a possibility that he\she would consider that you would be making a right hand turn, and so consider you of no consequence. Not that it would necessarily be the case, but mostly a cager has to deal with cagers and therefore the first thing considered is cager things, so if a cager is coming toward you and is moved over to the right hand side of the of his lane,,,,,,,then he's making a right turn,,, right???? get the picture??????

[SilvrT]

heh... considering all the variations as to where, in a lane, one should be ... I'm thinking maybe we just shouldn't be on that danged road at all!!

 

(anyone wanna trade yer cage for my scoot?)

[saddlebum]

One thing I didn't read about though is sound.

SOund you want sound............ how about the sound of ball bearings pinging off of the grill of some caged rice racer riding your A## or purposely cutting you off ...............Now that is a sweet sound.

[FuzzyRSTD]

What do we make cagers think when we share the road, and related thoughts.

 

Often and most time we blame the cager for not seeing us. This maybe true, but no matter who's to blame for the mishaps or near mishaps, riders still end up with the short end of the stick, and are the ones who have to deal with the worst aftermath. How to minimize these situations is an ongoing discussion and I would like to add to it from a different point of view.

 

First, lets accept the fact that an accident is the fault of those involved, in our case the rider and the cager. We all know that the cager will not 'see us', so it's up to us to avoid being hit. The cager is no help in this department. With that in mind here's my thoughts:

 

TWO LANE ROAD:

 

1) Always ride the left hand track, in the right hand track we get lost in the scenery and we tell others that we are not really a contender in the traffic.

 

2) When approaching an intersection and you have a left turner coming toward you, stay in the left hand track. If you move over to the right hand track you are telling the cager that you are making a right turn, and guess what, he's going first, and right into your path cutting off all chance of escape. If you stay in the left track and he does turn in front of you, you have a chance of going behind him. However small that opening may be, it’s may be the only one you’ve got.

 

3) When traveling down the road stay with the traffic speed. You are telling the cager that you are part of his environment and not just something to get out of the way. Keep your left track and block your lane. If you move to the right track you are telling them: I’m trying to give you room to pass me, try it if you think it’s ok and take me out in the process. It also gives you a better vision to the front and traffic coming towards you are also aware of your presence and so have to contend with you.

 

4) Always and always block your lane. You paid for it as much as anyone else, you have a right to it and it’s yours to use to your full advantage.

 

5) When making a right hand turn never use the right hand track, in doing so you are telling the cager that it’s ok for him to try and squeeze by you, but often times there’s not quite enough room and over you go.

 

6) When making a left turn use the center right track and so block your lane. Sure the cager has to wait to go past you, but then he does for anyone else as well so why not for you. If he knows he’s going to take you out he will contend with you, but if he can put you on the side in his mind, you’re the one who deals with the problems. Further more if the cager thinks that he can scoot past you and stay on the pavement he will, force him to leave the pavement and he will give you a wider berth.

 

7) Never give a cager the idea that you may even want to share your lane with him, it’s yours, you paid for it, at present you own it and are using it and he’s to keep away from you.

 

8) When stopped at a light or stop sign, tell others by your action that you own the lane, park crosswise in the middle if that’s what it takes, just don’t let anyone even think that there may be a chance that they could squeeze by.

 

FOUR LANE, Two lanes in either direction.

 

I find that sometimes it feels safer in the right and other times safer in the left. I’m not really stuck on the one vs. the other.

 

1) When in the right lane be visible and use the left track, when in the left lane be just as visible and use the right track. Again, let others know that you intend to be a contender in traffic and they will have to deal with you. This may seem to be an aggressive way of thinking and doesn’t fly with the thought that we are super vulnerable. We are super vulnerable and should never forget that fact, but that doesn’t mean that we need to tell the cager that. Let him know that we are part of the world he has to deal with and it will be much harder for him to put us aside mentally.

 

2) When passing continue to use the proper tracks. You may feel safer in the other track, but you won’t be taking over your rightful lane, you will be unnoticed, and therefore uncared for.

 

3) When doing an exit, continue to claim your right to your lane as long as possible, nobody will run you down, but if you fade to the right to try and get out the way then others will take your lane away from you before they should.

 

These are just some thoughts, hopefully helpful, but I’m not an expert by any stretch of the imagination. Lets use this to start a discussion and to educated each other more fully. Got some helpful insight? Some good pointers? Type away and help the rest of us as well.

 

I agree Marcarl 100% with all you said. Especially the left and right tracks when on a two/three lane same direction. I have preached this to all who have road with me when I see them on the wrong side. Your just more visible that way. I have also seen some riding two up on a two lane divided and riding on the right track. So wrong, the traffic behind that first vehicle does not even know you are there. I think maybe they are so afraid of the oncoming traffic, that they go to the right track.I wished that everyone would follow your advise on all this. THANK YOU.....

Fuzzy

[Trader]

On the way down to MD I did a dumb thing!

I pulled out of the Seneca gas station near Buffalo with a group of bikes and immediately was at a stop sign...waiting to turn left.

 

I stopped, checked traffic. It was all clear on the left, and on my right I saw a car slowing down quite a bit so I ASSUMED he also had a stop sign.

 

I proceeded to make my left hand turn RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM!!!!

Thankfully he was going slow enough that he avoided me quite easily but it really shook me up realizing what I had done.

 

Also related to the focus that Don spoke of. I was more concerned in keeping up with the other riders and didn't FOCUS on what was going on around me.

[Sailor]

A couple things from riding here. On two lane roads a lot of cars cut corners. They will kick gravel up onto the pavement. In that case it is best to be on the inside of the corner as the car tires clear two paths, one on the inside and one on the outside. If you are on the outside and a car cuts the corner coming towards you, you meet head on. If it has just rained do not ride in the middle of the lane as that is where cars leak oil and water brings it to the surface. When I see a car that I think may pull out or turn left or try to pass in front of me I give my handlebars a little wiggle which draws their attention to me. I always drive in daylight with my headlight on high.

[yamtom]

After reading all this, I am not surprised at the depth of understanding of survival techniques mentioned, but so few seem to be talking about modulated headlites. I have one, and am amazed at how they make you stand out. Ive also noted that the neon green/yellow safety vest wraps, stand out so well, there is just no missing them. I personally have been switching sides of lanes for many years, similar to what Jeff is suggesting. In Mich, supposedly we have legal modulated headlites even though, I cant find authority for it in the actual law for motorcycles. I am generally a recreation only rider, so the heavy traffic is avoided for the most part. How many states actually allow modulated headlites anyways?

[Gary N.]

How many states actually allow modulated headlites anyways?

 

Allowed in all 50 states and all Canadian provinces.

 

more info http://users.snip.net/~WCLAMB/MODULATOR.HTM

Thank you for resurrecting this important thread.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Gary N.

[awsmsrv]

....How many states actually allow modulated headlites anyways?

All of 'em.

[Sailor]

One safety item no one has mentioned, I think, is to use a white helmet. All the motorcycle cops here have white helmets and the car drivers are used to watching for them. I have noticed it myself, I can spot that white helmet even though the bike is hidden. I used to have "fishscale" on my helmet. It is highly reflective multi colored tape. I can't find it any more.

[Pegasus1300]

I have found white helmets to also be cooler as the white relectes the heat better. NO I didn't mean cooler as in Kooler:)

[SilvrT]

I have found white helmets to also be cooler as the white relectes the heat better. NO I didn't mean cooler as in Kooler:)

 

I think white is KEWLer too