saddlebum Posted July 15, 2014 #51 Posted July 15, 2014 When I bought my bike it came with the trailer. the tongue of the trailer had the swivel built in to the tongue just past the hitch. So far I like it very much and when I bank around turns I barely notice the trailer behind me. Now I have to admit this is the only trailer I ever pulled behind a bike so I cannot compare to one without the swivel but It does allow the bike to lean more ----Like when you step off and forget to put the kickstand down.
Jayceesfolly Posted July 15, 2014 #52 Posted July 15, 2014 Jeff: How about a Oilite bushing (McMaster-Carr #2938T27 for example). Or a flanged sleeve bushing or a drill bushing with a head. Just thinking out loud, not sure if any of them would work in place of the bearings. Jim
Flyinfool Posted July 15, 2014 #53 Posted July 15, 2014 I have been kicking around the bushing idea. A bushing could be smaller and a lot lighter but might end up needing a pair of actual thrust bearings. One for pulling and one for braking. I am still thinking on this one. IF I make something it will be a winter project. I have to many other things going on right now. But this is also a fun design exercise. Keep the ideas coming. At the moment I do not have a need for myself since my trailer already has a swivel on it. If I do build one it will be tested by putting it in my truck and chaining it to a big tree with a peak reading scale.......
CaptainJoe Posted July 16, 2014 #54 Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Iron Mike "Brilliant! The design of yours puts gravity to work for you compared to the one he posted from Amazon. It's going to naturally want to stay where you want it to be, yet allow for a tipover. I want one! Quote: Originally Posted by Flyinfool View Post The total length of the Swivel Ball Mount would be just 4.3 inches longer than the current home made stinger that I have, and this Swivel Ball Mount is actually .25 inches shorter than the commercial one sitting on the shelf at Auto Zone. I have changed the design to always have the center of the ball on the same centerline as the bike, regardless of how the ball mount is rotated. This will mean that the center of the ball will never be different from the center of the bike. This will prevent the feeling that you get from the type shown above that lets the ball tilt back and forth allowing the pull to be off center, or allowing the coupler to move back and forth possibly upsetting the bike. This will also lower the center of the ball about 1.7 inches from what I have now. I do not think it will be an issue with my trailer. Other trailers the ball height is more critical. It would not be difficult to raise this up to keep the ball height but still have it rotate on center. I just have to add the step up or down before the swivel part. But adding a step to change height will also add about 2 inches to the length. I still do not think that the extra 2 inches of length will be an issue. I am wide open for questions comments and snide remarks, even constructive or destructive criticism will be accepted. I am not designing this to full Class I standards. No one will ever be pulling a 2,000 lb trailer with their bike and this Swivel Ball Mount. I hope. I would not hesitate to plug this into a cars receiver and pull a 1,000 lb trailer. Still a lot more than any bike should ever be pulling. it is not just the trailer weight that must be considered in a design like this, there is also the dynamic loading. How many Gs of braking or acceleration or turning can the tow vehicle generate. Also there are the impact forces of the trailer and/or bike hitting a bump or pot hole to consider." I agree, Putting the ball at the center of the shaft was a stroke of genius... Not placing it there would increase the side to side force on the bike such as when trailer is improperly loaded or uneven tire pressure, put another way, It would allow the ball to travel from the left to the right a few inches or so... The proverbial tail could wag the Dog... He may want to consider applying for a patent... as this could work on a variety of applications... Edited July 16, 2014 by CaptainJoe
motorcycle_1300 Posted July 16, 2014 #55 Posted July 16, 2014 I recently purchased a Piggy Backer XL trailer, which came with a swivel mount hitch. Although I have assembled the trailer, I have not used it yet as I have a couple modifications I want to make. I will let you know at a later date how it holds up and if it really offers anything better than a standard hitch. Al
Flyinfool Posted July 16, 2014 #56 Posted July 16, 2014 A swivel hitch is one of those things that you hope you never need, but will be glad you have if you ever do need it. Kind of like a fire extinguisher or a helmet. I do not know if you can or will notice anything in normal riding. As I mentioned earlier I used mine for sure one time when the side stand sunk into wet grass before I could get the plate out of the trunk to put under it. The bike was able to lay down flat and the swivel prevented any possibility of damage to the hitch or trailer. I am betting that the fully loaded trailer would have bent something without the swivel in there.
Guest tx2sturgis Posted July 16, 2014 #57 Posted July 16, 2014 If I do build one it will be tested by putting it in my truck and chaining it to a big tree with a peak reading scale....... I want video of this!
CaptainJoe Posted July 16, 2014 #58 Posted July 16, 2014 I want video of this! Me to! He'll probably pull the tree down on his truck...
Flyinfool Posted July 16, 2014 #59 Posted July 16, 2014 Me to! He'll probably pull the tree down on his truck... Good point, I'll use my buddies Ford, or other buddies Dodge so that there is no danger of pulling the tree down......
IronMike Posted July 17, 2014 #60 Posted July 17, 2014 I don't recall the size of the bolts the hold Carbon One's receiver on, but not that big, so there is not a lot of force on this hitch to even be worried about. However, I want a pivot point so as not to totally twist and trash everything the receiver is hooked to should the bike tip over. I have already crafted a special .....About tip over proof Camping style Kick stand pad of which one Lucky vendor here has gotten the first one by now. (I made 12) Its about the size of a dinner place made out of Cutting board. LOL Anyways. Like to have something on this before my next trip. I have not dropped a bike in an awful long time so that means I am overdue. Ha ha! I have even been wearing all my gear more frequently as I have not crashed in 100.000 miles of riding, so I am overdue there also.
Condor Posted July 17, 2014 #61 Posted July 17, 2014 I have been kicking around the bushing idea. A bushing could be smaller and a lot lighter but might end up needing a pair of actual thrust bearings. One for pulling and one for braking. I am still thinking on this one. IF I make something it will be a winter project. I have to many other things going on right now. But this is also a fun design exercise. Keep the ideas coming. At the moment I do not have a need for myself since my trailer already has a swivel on it. If I do build one it will be tested by putting it in my truck and chaining it to a big tree with a peak reading scale....... Here's something to think about. In a previous post you mentioned that the trailer will track on the center line of the bike, but while looking at the design, the drop flange will do so only if both the trailer and the bike are up right. It seems to me that as soon as the bike is leaned to the side, and the drop stays perpendicular, the tow point will shift off center. The more of a drop, to more of a shift. Conversely, the less drop the less shift. Also it looks to me that if the trailer tilts/flips, and the bike stays upright, the only movement would be as if it were a standard non-tilt ball as the resistance because of the drop, would not allow the pivot. Maybe I'm not seeing it right??
Flyinfool Posted July 17, 2014 #62 Posted July 17, 2014 Here's something to think about. In a previous post you mentioned that the trailer will track on the center line of the bike, but while looking at the design, the drop flange will do so only if both the trailer and the bike are up right. It seems to me that as soon as the bike is leaned to the side, and the drop stays perpendicular, the tow point will shift off center. The more of a drop, to more of a shift. Conversely, the less drop the less shift. I did not post a version with different drop heights. The bearings will move vertically with the drop so that the center of the ball will always be on the vertical centerline of the bike, and the center of the ball will always be on the centerline of the bearings. Also it looks to me that if the trailer tilts/flips, and the bike stays upright, the only movement would be as if it were a standard non-tilt ball as the resistance because of the drop, would not allow the pivot. Maybe I'm not seeing it right?? I think you are not seeing it right. When the coupler tilts enough to hit the shank of the ball it will then cause the ball to rotate in the bearings to accommodate the tilt, exactly the same way that the tongue mounted swivels work. I can make the vertical piece any length to get whatever drop or rise one needs.
FreezyRider Posted July 17, 2014 #63 Posted July 17, 2014 Well, I've been gone for awhile, let my subscription expire because I am more active on the gl1800riders forum. Still checking in here occasionally...or maybe more and this thread finally goaded me into re-upping. As a guest I couldn't see the pix you guys were posting and since I have an interest in swivel hitches it was driving me crazy. You got an evil scheme going here Freebird...you hide tidbits unless we pay. (Smart man!) Got my interest up to the point that I decided to spend the $12 just so I could show you all what I have done...and what you can do for about $30 or less. Now, ain't I a nice guy, spending my own money to save you all some $$$. Oh, I'll send you my paypal address if you want to send me some money due to your adoration... The picture attached is, unfortunately, not my idea. Not even my bike shown. But, the back of a Goldwing is the back of a Goldwing. All the same. I can take closeup pix of mine if anyone has questions, but I think you'll catch the drift. Just go to your farm supply store, like TSC or Rural King or whatever, and buy an upper link arm for use with a PTO. I got one with a 3/4 eye on the ends, but I think the one in the pic shown is a 5/8...don't think it matters. Cost will be about $22 (TSC). I cut mine in half and used the end with standard right hand thread. The pic will show how it attaches, I'm using a longer pin with a large enough hole on the end that I can use a padlock on it. The swiveling/tilting eye socket allows turning and up/down pivoting. The threads on the stem provide the tip-over compensation. I left mine threaded out about 1 1/2 full turns. I have only about 600 miles on mine, but that was pulling a trailer loaded to the max (for testing) on some of southern Indiana's twistiest roads. Works like a dream. No, I'm sure the DOT boys wouldn't smile. But you can't always please everybody. Hit me up with questions and comments...but be gentle. Glad to be back posting again...getting tired of just reading and talking to myself! Joe
Condor Posted July 17, 2014 #64 Posted July 17, 2014 I did not post a version with different drop heights. The bearings will move vertically with the drop so that the center of the ball will always be on the vertical centerline of the bike, and the center of the ball will always be on the centerline of the bearings. I think you are not seeing it right. When the coupler tilts enough to hit the shank of the ball it will then cause the ball to rotate in the bearings to accommodate the tilt, exactly the same way that the tongue mounted swivels work. I can make the vertical piece any length to get whatever drop or rise one needs. Maybe so..... I guess the proof will be how it works out when you get through testing the prototype. Keep us posted.
Condor Posted July 17, 2014 #65 Posted July 17, 2014 Hit me up with questions and comments...but be gentle. Glad to be back posting again...getting tired of just reading and talking to myself! Joe Now that's cool.... Simple and elegant. I even have a Bushtec post hitch for a 1stGen that it may fit.... or be made to fit... Welcome back Joe...
FreezyRider Posted July 17, 2014 #66 Posted July 17, 2014 Now that's cool.... Simple and elegant. I even have a Bushtec post hitch for a 1stGen that it may fit.... or be made to fit... Welcome back Joe... Your manufacturing techniques must be similar to mine...find something in the garage that is close to what you need, and then grab a big enough hammer to make it fit! Works for me!!
Flyinfool Posted July 17, 2014 #67 Posted July 17, 2014 Hit me up with questions and comments...but be gentle. Glad to be back posting again...getting tired of just reading and talking to myself! Joe Glad to have you back. I get some of the best answers when I am talking to myself.....
FreezyRider Posted July 17, 2014 #68 Posted July 17, 2014 Glad to have you back. I get some of the best answers when I am talking to myself..... Yeah, but when I'm talking to myself I can't share my brainstorms with everybody! And I just know you're all dying to hear them!
Guest tx2sturgis Posted July 17, 2014 #69 Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) Don't you hate when this happens? Looks like he's got a bushing of some type in there. http://shop.meadows-ent.com [ame] [/ame] Edited July 17, 2014 by tx2sturgis
CaptainJoe Posted July 17, 2014 #70 Posted July 17, 2014 Well, I've been gone for awhile, let my subscription expire because I am more active on the gl1800riders forum. Still checking in here occasionally...or maybe more and this thread finally goaded me into re-upping. As a guest I couldn't see the pix you guys were posting and since I have an interest in swivel hitches it was driving me crazy. You got an evil scheme going here Freebird...you hide tidbits unless we pay. (Smart man!) Got my interest up to the point that I decided to spend the $12 just so I could show you all what I have done...and what you can do for about $30 or less. Now, ain't I a nice guy, spending my own money to save you all some $$$. Oh, I'll send you my paypal address if you want to send me some money due to your adoration... The picture attached is, unfortunately, not my idea. Not even my bike shown. But, the back of a Goldwing is the back of a Goldwing. All the same. I can take closeup pix of mine if anyone has questions, but I think you'll catch the drift. Just go to your farm supply store, like TSC or Rural King or whatever, and buy an upper link arm for use with a PTO. I got one with a 3/4 eye on the ends, but I think the one in the pic shown is a 5/8...don't think it matters. Cost will be about $22 (TSC). I cut mine in half and used the end with standard right hand thread. The pic will show how it attaches, I'm using a longer pin with a large enough hole on the end that I can use a padlock on it. The swiveling/tilting eye socket allows turning and up/down pivoting. The threads on the stem provide the tip-over compensation. I left mine threaded out about 1 1/2 full turns. I have only about 600 miles on mine, but that was pulling a trailer loaded to the max (for testing) on some of southern Indiana's twistiest roads. Works like a dream. No, I'm sure the DOT boys wouldn't smile. But you can't always please everybody. Hit me up with questions and comments...but be gentle. Glad to be back posting again...getting tired of just reading and talking to myself! Joe Hey Joe, Welcome back! I did the same thing about 5 years ago to my craftsman leaf/grass sweeper and craftsman wagon that I pull behind the four wheeler. Had to because it kept bending the tongue. I might use the setup for something less than 200 lbs. but woudn't trust it with my +400 lb. camper. The threaded part is 5/8" but the solid portion only 1/2" and it's not hardened. The other thing I'd worry about is how many degrees of motion there is when you pull into a steep driveway. Haven't had time to measure yet, but i don't think it's as much as a standard ball and hitch.. It definitely works on the four wheeler on the lighter stuff!
FreezyRider Posted July 18, 2014 #71 Posted July 18, 2014 Hey Joe, Welcome back! I did the same thing about 5 years ago to my craftsman leaf/grass sweeper and craftsman wagon that I pull behind the four wheeler. Had to because it kept bending the tongue. I might use the setup for something less than 200 lbs. but woudn't trust it with my +400 lb. camper. The threaded part is 5/8" but the solid portion only 1/2" and it's not hardened. The other thing I'd worry about is how many degrees of motion there is when you pull into a steep driveway. Haven't had time to measure yet, but i don't think it's as much as a standard ball and hitch.. It definitely works on the four wheeler on the lighter stuff! The threaded shaft on mine is 1 1/8 inch, and the pin hole in the eye is 3/4 inch. I pulled about 350 lb last weekend for over 500 miles without a problem. Think about this...the shank on your hitch ball is likely either 5/8 or 3/4...I've seen both sizes in use on m/c hitches. The diameter of the ball is not the weak point at all, but the shank size is. At least on the ball end. In addition, my coupler was bolted on to the tongue of my trailer using 2 bolts, which are 3/8 diameter. There is likely the weakest point on a normal hitch. I have full confidence in my setup when it comes to pulling 4, 5, or even 600 lbs...much more than I would ever want to pull. As far as the tilt angle, I don't see an issue with it. I have gone up some pretty steep driveways with it so far and haven't felt any problems. Time will tell. Good to be back, thanks for the welcome! Joe
CaptainJoe Posted July 18, 2014 #72 Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) The threaded shaft on mine is 1 1/8 inch, and the pin hole in the eye is 3/4 inch. I pulled about 350 lb last weekend for over 500 miles without a problem. Think about this...the shank on your hitch ball is likely either 5/8 or 3/4...I've seen both sizes in use on m/c hitches. The diameter of the ball is not the weak point at all, but the shank size is. At least on the ball end. In addition, my coupler was bolted on to the tongue of my trailer using 2 bolts, which are 3/8 diameter. There is likely the weakest point on a normal hitch. I have full confidence in my setup when it comes to pulling 4, 5, or even 600 lbs...much more than I would ever want to pull. As far as the tilt angle, I don't see an issue with it. I have gone up some pretty steep driveways with it so far and haven't felt any problems. Time will tell. Good to be back, thanks for the welcome! Joe Joe, I see, you used a category 1 Adjustable Top Link, with a 3/4" Lower Link Pin.... that's a HUGE difference. Quite a bit beefier! I'd definitely trust that with the Bunkhouse! I used a category 0 Adjustable Top Link, with a 5/8" Lower Link Pin on the sweeper and wagon for the four wheeler. Would not, trust that with the bunkhouse...LOL Edited July 18, 2014 by CaptainJoe
CaptainJoe Posted July 18, 2014 #73 Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) Don't you hate when this happens? Looks like he's got a bushing of some type in there. http://shop.meadows-ent.com Think he might have a patent on that? LOL... Edit* $170???? OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCHHHHHHHHHHH! Edited July 18, 2014 by CaptainJoe
Flyinfool Posted July 18, 2014 #74 Posted July 18, 2014 I think he just saved me a whole lot of work..........
IronMike Posted July 18, 2014 #75 Posted July 18, 2014 Lots of good brainstorming going on here. I think he just saved us a lot of money.
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