Upgrade brakes?

[Guest cloud-9]

Some of the reviews say the brakes are the weak point on the 2005+ RS. Can they be upgraded to, say, Brembos, or anything?

 

Thanks

Jim

[Stoutman]

If the reviewers you speak of are magzine sport bike riders then they will think the brakes are not adequate. Of course, they want to be able to do stoppies on an 800 lb. cruiser. My opinion is the brakes are totally adequate on my 05 Royal Star Tour Deluxe. I even bought a kit from Rick Butler to reduce the rear braking a little bit. It is far to easy to lock up the rear. I put the EBC sintered pads on the front and the bike has all the stopping power I need. The only thing I think I'd like to see is anti-lock brakes. JMHO.

[pegscraper]

It is very easy to swap front brake calipers from certain years of an R1 or R6 or newer Roadstar. They bolt right on. It's also best then, to use a front brake master cylinder from a newer Roadstar to match the setup, and the style matches the current one exactly. This setup is what Y is putting on the newer cruisers anyway, and it's what they should be putting on this bike too. Why are they giving a heavier bike weaker brakes? These give a tremendous improvement in stopping power. I say it's much needed. There's no such thing as braking power you don't need. When someone pulls out in front of you and you need to stop right NOW, the stock brakes are not enough. With these, the brakes are much better balanced front to rear, and the rear brake then does not need to be proportioned down. Why reduce your braking power (via the rear) when you could be increasing it (via the front)? This is a much better solution.

[Rick Butler]

Jim,

 

If you want better stopping with your front brakes, just do as Jon Stout suggested and replace the pads with EBC HH pads. Upgrading to stainless front lines will also help. Your rear brake has too much braking with its 4 piston caliper, so just stay with OEM pads and stay light on the pedal if you don't want to deal with a rear wheel lockup.

 

If you really want to get the best braking possible, do as Pegscraper suggested and find a set of front 4 piston calipers from an early R-6 or R-1. But you will need to upgrade to front stainless lines with a straight flat banjo fitting since these calipers mount the brake line on the side.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Rick

[pegscraper]

That would be ideal, to get braided brake lines to fit. Ones for a newer Roadstar would do it. Actually I'm still using my old stock lines though, for now. Just twist the lines a quarter turn to install them. They're a hair too long, but not noticeable and don't cause any trouble. I'll get the braided lines as money allows. (Besides, I'm in the middle of another project right now anyway.)

 

I got used calipers and master cylinder from ebay, then sold my old ones off, which for some reason brought more than I paid for what I got. I have less than nothing in this swap. Used R1/R6 calipers are really common. Maybe that's why they don't bring as much. My old master cylinder went to KS, and my old calipers wound up in England.

 

The last detail, although not absolutely necessary, would be to get floating rotors and get rid of the solid ones. Again, get them from certain years of R1 or R6 or a newer Roadstar. Other models have them too, but I don't know all the details. Just match up the parts. If they look like they'll fit, they will. The ones that won't fit are obviously different, like different bolt patterns or something.

[Squidley]

Lynn,

You mentioned floating rotors.....I'm stupified

[Steve S]

I use EBC HH pads on the Black Beast. Once I switched to braided stainless brake lines, I found out real quick that I could lock up the front tire. That is all the stopping power I need.

[skydoc_17]

Hey Squid,

Floating rotors are actually a two piece set-up that a lot of sport bike riders run on their R1's and R6's. There is the "hub" section which attaches to the front or rear wheel and the "caliper contact area" which is the surface the brake pads come in contact with. (see attached thumnail) I have been working on modifying a set of R1 floating Rotors and Calipers for my 87' VR, when I'm done I'll post the results on the VR site. The biggest benifit of the floating rotors is they don't warp from repeated high speed stops like the one piece rotors that come stock on the VR's and RSV"s.

I'll keep you posted as to the results,

Ride Safe,

Earl

Edited August 5, 2008 by skydoc_17
spelling

[Squidley]

Thanks Earl....I appreciate the info and will be interested to hear when your project is completed

[pegscraper]

There are more standard looking floating rotors available, if you don't happen to like the gnarly bodacious look of those. The ones I got look just like my stock ones, except that they're two piece units.

 

Put braided lines on your stock brakes and locked them up and you think that's the best the brake system can be, eh? These R1/R6 brake calipers are much more controllable than that. The lever travel increases with this setup, increasing the mechanical advantage over the calipers and giving finer control of what the calipers are doing BEFORE they lock up. Once they lock up, you're all done. You don't want that to happen. Plus these brakes don't fade under hard use. The stock ones do. I've felt it happen. The harder you pull the lever on these, the harder they work. You don't come to a point where there's nothing more left to be had even though you have more lever travel to go. The R1/R6 brake setup is much better than just throwing braided lines on the stock brakes.

[Guest cloud-9]

There are more standard looking floating rotors available, if you don't happen to like the gnarly bodacious look of those. The ones I got look just like my stock ones, except that they're two piece units.

 

 

 

What are they, or where'd you get them, pegscraper?

 

Thanks extremely much for the great news and help everyone. That's the only remaining concern about the RS. So, I hope I like my test ride tomorrow! Will report back....

 

Jim

[pegscraper]

IIRC, my more conventional looking floating rotors came off of an R1, an older model. I got all my parts through ebay, and then got rid of all my old parts the same way, which very nicely funded the swap.

 

If you're going to a dealer for that test ride, take a look at the calipers, rotors, and master cylinders of some of the other models and you'll see the similarities and what will fit and what won't. Describing it is more difficult than understanding it.

 

The M/C can only come from a newer Roadstar. M/Cs from other models are mechanically the same, but they're styled differently and won't match the clutch M/C. (If you didn't have to match the clutch M/C style, the brake M/C style wouldn't matter.) Make sure that the one you get has "14" cast into the front next to the fluid level window. That's the size of the bore, 14mm. Our stock ones are 5/8", and some of the older Roadstars may also have a 5/8" M/C.

 

Floating rotors can come from an older R1/R6, or most any newer cruiser. The new R1/R6 rotors will have a different bolt pattern.

 

The calipers can come from an older R1/R6, or most of the new cruisers. Their style may vary, but they're all mechanically the same thing, with a couple exceptions. None of the V Star calipers will work. And you'll notice that the new models of R1 and R6 have a different style of caliper now which will not work. The ones that fit are from older models. I don't remember the years anymore, and they're not even the same between the R1 and R6 anyway. Just take a note of what the new ones look like. Then when you see some used ones, you'll know what will work and what to avoid.

 

The cruiser calipers look pretty nice as is, but you may want to cover up the sportbike calipers, either with some full chrome covers, or at least a smaller chrome dog bone style that will cover up the colored anodized caps on the sides. The cheapest way would be to dab some black paint over those caps.

 

This front brake system hasn't been on the cruisers long enough for used pieces to show up on ebay. If you find used calipers from a cruiser, they may be pretty expensive. But the sportbike calipers are plentiful and cheap. And the only difference is their looks.

 

I'll look forward to hearing how you like that test ride. To get an idea of what these brakes feel like, give one of the other new cruisers a test ride also.

[Steve S]

Put braided lines on your stock brakes and locked them up and you think that's the best the brake system can be, eh? These R1/R6 brake calipers are much more controllable than that. The lever travel increases with this setup, increasing the mechanical advantage over the calipers and giving finer control of what the calipers are doing BEFORE they lock up. Once they lock up, you're all done. You don't want that to happen. Plus these brakes don't fade under hard use. The stock ones do. I've felt it happen. The harder you pull the lever on these, the harder they work. You don't come to a point where there's nothing more left to be had even though you have more lever travel to go. The R1/R6 brake setup is much better than just throwing braided lines on the stock brakes.

 

Pegsraper,

I didn't mean to imply that better brake systems are not out there. Or that some people can't get better results from better brake systems. My feeling was if I can lock up the front tire, (I did that on purpose and in a controlled setting), then the stock brake system is doing it's job to suit me. While I am an agressive rider, I do not race the bike and when I am riding aggressively, most of my braking is done by the engine. So I don't over work the brakes. Like I said, the stock system, with the upgrades, works fine for me...

[Seaking]

Hey Squid,

Floating rotors are actually a two piece set-up that a lot of sport bike riders run on their R1's and R6's. There is the "hub" section which attaches to the front or rear wheel and the "caliper contact area" which is the surface the brake pads come in contact with. (see attached thumnail) I have been working on modifying a set of R1 floating Rotors and Calipers for my 87' VR, when I'm done I'll post the results on the VR site. The biggest benifit of the floating rotors is they don't warp from repeated high speed stops like the one piece rotors that come stock on the VR's and RSV"s.

I'll keep you posted as to the results,

Ride Safe,

Earl

 

The discs on my 2005 VStar are the floating type as well. Since a lot of my older VStar parts fit on my 06 Venture, I wonder if the discs would also?

[pegscraper]

My feeling was if I can lock up the front tire, then the stock brake system is doing it's job to suit me.

 

What I'm trying to say is that being able to lock up the brakes does not mean that they are doing a good job. It's almost just the opposite. Wet brakes can be locked up too. They'll have almost no effect up until the point where they lock up, and then they've gone too far. There's not enough middle ground to work with. And the stock brakes, even when they're functioning properly, don't have a whole lot of middle ground either. If you never find yourself in an emergency, they'll feel just fine. But if you ever find yourself having to stop right NOW, they will fade, having no more braking power to give, and suddenly they're locked up. This brake setup that Y themselves is putting on their newer bikes, including most cruisers, not just the sportbikes, gives you a lot more middle ground to work with, and it's a lot more controllable. "Works fine enough for me" when there are better systems available, and inexpensively, I just don't understand it. It's your own safety, I guess. Do what you like. I truly hope you never find yourself in a situation where you need more braking power and wish you had it. I've been there, and so have a few others on this board.

 

Rotors from any of the V Stars will fit. Some are one piece, some are floating types.

[Squeeze]

Pegscraper hits the Nail absolutely on the Head.

 

Good Braking isn't just about being able to lock up the Wheel, it's about being able to control more Braking power than you have under any Circumstances without locking the Wheel up AND loosing control. The best Brake Performance you as a Rider can show is brake as hard as you can and let the Wheel lock up just before you loose control. That's what a perfect ABS System would give you, but under given electronic and mechanical Circumstances, a well trained Rider still would outbrake any ABS System sold today.

 

Second important Part of Brakes is to sustain very good Performance under tough Circumstances.

 

The stock Brake leaves a Lot of Room for Improvement when compared to the newer, blue, silver or gold Star Calipers.

 

First off, the designed Dimensions of the Master in Relation to the Pistons of the Calipers are not as good as the newer System. Second, the Style of Fabrication of the newer Calipers is much more stable under hot Conditions. Thats because the old style Calipers are made out of two Halves and bolted togehter. When the Calipers get hot from Braking, the Bolts let loose and there goes the Perfomance. The newer Style Calipers are casted and out of one Piece, and hold on to Performance even under very hot Situations. The R1/R6 Brakes have been Reference Class since 1998 and still are one of the Best on the 'stock' Parts Market.

[Condor]

Hey Squid,

Floating rotors are actually a two piece set-up that a lot of sport bike riders run on their R1's and R6's. There is the "hub" section which attaches to the front or rear wheel and the "caliper contact area" which is the surface the brake pads come in contact with. (see attached thumnail) I have been working on modifying a set of R1 floating Rotors and Calipers for my 87' VR, when I'm done I'll post the results on the VR site. The biggest benifit of the floating rotors is they don't warp from repeated high speed stops like the one piece rotors that come stock on the VR's and RSV"s.

I'll keep you posted as to the results,

Ride Safe,

Earl

 

So that's what I've got!!!!!!.... I got down under the '91 and saw this funny set up for the rear rotor. A two piece afair that had EBC stamped in the middle plate. Course I just noticed the EBC, but didn't think too much about it. The more I dig into the bike the more trick stuff I find. I just checked the fronts and they look stock. Wish is didn't leak oil so much....