1984 Wouldn't start

[bkupmstr]

Thanks to all who replied to my other posts.

 

I have a 1984 Venture that wouldn't start, it would turn over but backfire and not run.

 

I read thru a bunch of post and have arrived here.

 

I've pulled the plugs and replaced (they were a little black ble ack but not what I'd call fouled.

 

I peered into the tank and can see some rust, so how much rust should I be concerned about, I would think any rust is an issue, but I'd like to hear from the experts.

 

I drained liquid from all four carbs and I call it liquid because it didn;t really resemble fule it resembled shelac, and smelled more like shelac and looked kinda like urine.

I'm thinking I should drain all the fuel from the tank now.

 

Questions:

 

What's the easist way to drain the tank?

Should I use the Krem stuff to line the tank now or wait for winter?

Can't seem to find a fuel filter is there one somewhere?

Got the battery out and filled with water and putting a good charge on it

Is there anything else I should try before giving another try to start

[GeorgeS]

Thanks to all who replied to my other posts.

 

I have a 1984 Venture that wouldn't start, it would turn over but backfire and not run.

 

I read thru a bunch of post and have arrived here.

 

I've pulled the plugs and replaced (they were a little black ble ack but not what I'd call fouled.

 

I peered into the tank and can see some rust, so how much rust should I be concerned about, I would think any rust is an issue, but I'd like to hear from the experts.

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1. If you can see Rust, I would Remove the Petcock Assembly, Remove the Fuel sending Unit, and Flush it out. The TWO screens mounted on the PETCOCK inside the tank are Most likley, close to Plugged.

 

2. Replace the Fuel Filter, located, left side, behind the Fuel Pump.

3. After you get the Tank cleaned out, Put in about 2 gallons of gas, and ADD 1/2 Can of " SEA-FOAM" -- OR -- Synthetic Fuel Injector Cleaner. --

 

4. Open Carb Bowl Drains, let Pump Run fuel thru the Bowls.

 

5. ---- If engine will run, Burn all that fuel, Drain the carb bowls again, Repeat again, drain the bowls, Repeat again.

Give the SEA - FOAM about a week to Chemically Clean the carbs.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I drained liquid from all four carbs and I call it liquid because it didn;t really resemble fule it resembled shelac, and smelled more like shelac and looked kinda like urine.

I'm thinking I should drain all the fuel from the tank now.

 

------------------

 

YES !!!, then do the Above Proceedure !!!

 

----------------------

 

 

 

Questions:

 

What's the easist way to drain the tank?

--- Remove Hose from output of the PetCock !! Drain into

Clear GLASS MoonShine Jug !!

 

Should I use the Krem stuff to line the tank now or wait for winter?

 

--- First get the tank cleaned out, and Run the SEA- FOAM, go from there.

 

Can't seem to find a fuel filter is there one somewhere?

 

--------------

 

FRAM # G-3587, At any auto parts, will work.

 

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--- Left, Side, just Above and Behind the left FootPeg.

Remove Passenger, FootBoard, you will see the fuel Pump, Filter

is located behind the Pump.

 

-----------------------------------

 

 

Got the battery out and filled with water and putting a good charge on it

Is there anything else I should try before giving another try to start

 

Get the Fuel System Cleaned out First, !!!! Buy the SEA-FOAM, or Valvoline Synthectic Fuel injector cleaner, OR Chevron, has about the same stuff, at any auto parts store.

 

Also, put in 1/2 can of HEET, to get moisture out of tank.

[Snaggletooth]

I can't help you on the draining the tank completely as I haven't done that on a VR but I sounds like you fighting some nasty old gas.

 

The fuel filter is on the left side of the bike down low. Pull off the left side panel and you will see the fuel pump at the very bottom. The fuel filter is behind that. The forward side (input) is fed from the siphon line form the tank. There is a sort loop off the rear of the filter that goed to the pump. If is hasn't been replaced there is a red braided line that runs off the pump to the carbs.

 

I'd pull the the red line off and run an extension line to a gas can and let the pump run the tank down as far as it can. I'm sure someone will have something better here in a bit.

 

As far as the rust, there are ways to treat it and clean the tank but the tank will have to come out. I've used Evaporust? a couple of times on other projects and it does well.

 

If you chose not to treat I'd drain the tank, flush with fresh fuel, replace the fuel filter and lines and then load the tank up with a couple of gallons of fresh gas and at least half a can of SeaFoam. Switch it on and off a few times to let the pump refill the lines and carbs. Open the drains on the bowls and let the mix run through. Let it sit over night. Do this for a few days. Sitting in the bowls is the best way for the SeaFoam to do what it does. It takes time. I did with with a bike that sat for 9 years and got her running this way. To be honest, it worked, and I got it running but I ended up doing a full carb rebuild this year to make things right.

 

Rust can be a pain and most will tell you that none is the best. I agree with that. The best defense is fuel treatments and a clean filter to keep the particles out of the carbs.

 

I just did some work on an old XJ bike and the owner said he'd drained the tank. When I looked in it was rusty mess. Flakes falling off the sides. I pulled the tank and turned it over and poured out the rest of the gas, maybe a quart. But out of that quart about a half a cup of it was water. No treament in the world will take care of that. He's using a rust remover and sealer this week to clean her up.

 

So that's my 2 cents.

[Snaggletooth]

Damn, there's an echo in here. LOL! Always come in second.

[6m459]

First, if the tank is more than half full, syphon from the filler neck until your fuel level is below the level of the top of the major portion of the tank, under the seat. Otherwise you'll soon have any gas above that point, leaking out all over the place as you proceed.

 

To get the rest of the gas out, I'd take the seat off. The seat comes off on two bolts on either side of the seat, towards its aft end obscured by each of the side bags. Once the bots are out, slide the seat back and lift it off. (As best I remember anyways.) Under the seat, you will find an oval panel about 4" x 6" with 2 wires going to it and held in place by a number of bolts 4 or 6 can't remember.

 

That panel is the top of the fuel guage sending unit. Some pix of an already removed one are here: http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=10519

 

I'd remove that panel and withdraw the fuel guage sending unit from the top of the tank. DON'T DO THIS IF THE TANK IS FULL TO THE BRIM! Be careful with it and the associated gasket, unplug the wires and lay it aside.

 

Now you have a gaping hole that allows you access to syphon right to the bottom of the tank. As a bonus, you can also see the inside side of the pet cock and its associated mesh filter. A miniMag lite is handy for this.

 

All cautions about working with gasoline apply no open flames, no smoking etc etc. Don't forget to consider hidden sources of ignition like water heaters with standing pilots nearby etc etc. (No responsibilty here if you mess up but it would not help me sleep well so please be careful.)

 

Hope this helps, good luck, have a care and keep us posted.

 

Brian H.

Uxbridge Ont.

[6m459]

I drained liquid from all four carbs and I call it liquid because it didn;t really resemble fule it resembled shelac, and smelled more like shelac and looked kinda like urine.

 

This bodes badly for the state of the carb jets I am afraid. They are very fine little passages and as the old gas gels up they clog up with it. Fact of life I am afraid. Dissassebly and manual cleaning is likely indicated. Not out of the realm of the amateur garage mechanic, but not for the faint of heart either. Particularly on these bikes.

 

If the engine won't start I doubt that adding seafoam or any other additive to the gas tank will help. Sorry but that is my gut reaction after resurecting several bikes from this state over the years.

 

Personnally I like a Chevron product called TECHRON for carb cleaning. Others will disagree, SEAFOAM is popular, thats life. What ever you use, unless fuel is flowing, as to a running engine then the additive cannot work where you need it to work in the jets.

 

The best thing would be to remove and dismantle the carbs and get the jets (they are removeable) soaking in some solvent like TECHRON that will dissolve the gelled gas in them. I don't know how you feel about removing and dismantling the carbs but I will assume its not a favorite option.

 

If you have someone handy with experience at this, perhaps its time to ask them for assistance. If not and you are feeling brave, or desperate, perhaps its time to say to yourself, 'well this is where I learn to remove clean and reinstall xvz12 carbs'. We will be only too pleased to advise and support you through it all from a distance.

 

I wish I had better news for you but thats the way I see it.

 

Hope this is of some use, good luck and keep us posted.

 

Brian H.

[woz111]

I'd also like to add that if your pulling the carbs loose to cleam them up I'd also buy a new set of stainless steel carburettor bolt kit from eBay, which have an allan key head. You'll find that when your taking the screws out of the carbs the crosshead screws will ruin.

[bkupmstr]

Well I drained the tank, thanks to all the procedures mentioned and now I'm trying to get seafom/gas to run thru the carbs as mentioned.

 

So i've added some fresh gas and a can of seafoam, i turn on the ignition to get the fuel pump to prime the carbs (i hear it clicking a bit) Then I start cracking open the drain screw one carb at a time.

Fuel flows thru all but one the left front. I get a few dribbles but not much.

 

Should I start checking backwards to the pump? Give the seafoam a longer chance to work. I know breaking down the carbs is ineveitable but I was hoping to make that a winter project.

Thanks

[Snaggletooth]

For now forget the pump. It will click everytime you turn the key on for maybe 3 or 4 seconds. That's priming the lines and the carbs with fuel. It won't click anymore until the bike is using fuel or you open the drain lines up to release fuel.

 

The SeaFoam works best if you just let it sit and work. A good soaking does more than burning it through the carbs. Fill the bowls and let her sit overnight. Tomorrow drain again refill and let it sit again overnight. I'd did this for like 3 or four days before the bike would catch and run. And it proablably will run even if it's only a couple of cylinders.

 

Have you pulled the diaphragm covers yet to check them out? Be a good time to do it. They are critical in the operation of the carbs.

 

And make sure that battey is kept fully charged. You'll need every amp up can get during this process. These bikes are not known for a running a hot spark.

 

As I said before, and I think you mentioned that you understand what is to come later, that the carbs are going to have to come off sooner or later. I did put about 4,000 miles on my '84 before I pulled mine. My floats were sinking and it was flooding the carbs when it sat overnight and fouling the plugs. It ran ok on the road but you could always smell the gas and everynow and then she's start puking gas out of the overflow lines.

 

If you are handy with the tool box read up in the tech section on Carb rebuilding 101. Excellent article. It convinced me to do it myself and it worked out fine. There things to do and not to do that need to be addressed before you decide what to do. It is not a cheap process rather you do it youself or farm it out. I think I spent a bit over and $200 on parts and still need to invest in new floats. So they will come off again in the fall.

 

A lot of folks jump to eBay, myself included, and buy a set of carbs off a "running" bike. Love that term! You need to know what year it actually ran in. Some folks lack the principles of telling the full story on what they sell. I ended up with a set that was in fair shape but not good enough to drop on and run with. I was disapointed but.......it turned out well as I was able to salvage over $400.00 bucks worth of useable parts off that $100.00 investment during the rebuild. So I still have a lot spare parts for the future.

 

And on another note. I assume you may have the air box open or all the way off. The bike will run rough and chuff a bit with it open. The bike need a bit of restriction to make it work right. If you have it open, keep your face clear of the intakes or you may be wearing a full face helmet for a while until you eyebrows grow back. They like to back fire through the carbs when the box is open.

 

So let her soak and keep us posted.

 

Mike

[bkupmstr]

Mike (and others responding)

 

I can't say thanks enough, i really feel like I'm making progress and eventually be able to thumb my nose at the guys that wouldn't work on her.

 

I'll let it sit overnight and try cracking the drain screws again in the AM.

On to the brakes again...

[Snaggletooth]

If your gas was basty you're probably finding elephant snot in the masters also or did you get lucky on that?

[Guest dwildmanj]

 

I drained liquid from all four carbs and I call it liquid because it didn;t really resemble fule it resembled shelac, and smelled more like shelac and looked kinda like urine.

I'm thinking I should drain all the fuel from the tank now.

 

 

 

My question is, Where are the drain screws on the carbs? I'm new to working on motorcycles, (know my way around a car engine but things are tighter on a motorcycle). I see where the carbs are I just can't figure out where the screw is to drain the carbs.

 

I have an 83 Venture that was running when I bought it (used). Started her a couple of times during the first week and she started fine. She sat for one full week without starting and now she won't start. Just replaced the fuel pump (found one on ebay) and want to run the check by opening the drain on the carbs.

 

Anybody guide me around the carbs?

 

Dwayne.

Edited August 29, 2008 by dwildmanj
forqot to check quote

[Squeeze]

Just above the Carb Boots is Phillips Head Screw on each Carb. These are the Drain Valve Screws. Open this up and the Gas will come out of the black Hose just beside.

[bkupmstr]

I can't believe its already September.

 

But anyway, after soaking for over a month I still don't get much flow out of the one carb.

I tried removing the air filter and pouring the seafom directly into the carb but it makes its way to the floor in a way other then the drain screw.

 

Any other ideas on hor to get the fuel to flow to the carb or am I SOL?

 

Thanks

[Dano]

Sounds like that one's got to be pulled apart. There are several passages in there that take a very fine wire, (like off of a wire brush) to clean out. I think a pilot jet passage. Others will be GLAD to correct me, this is the only area on the bike except the final drive I haven't tackled just yet. If fuel is not flowing out, try opening up the drain screw on that carb and shooting some carb cleaner up in there. It might blow it loose and all will be fine. Another thing to try is to remove the diaphragms and blow cleaner into every orifice (on the carb!!!) you can find. Worked for another member.

 

Dan

[Marcarl]

If fuel is not flowing out, try opening up the drain screw on that carb and shooting some carb cleaner up in there. It might blow it loose and all will be fine. Another thing to try is to remove the diaphragms and blow cleaner into every orifice (on the carb!!!) you can find. Worked for another member.

 

Dan

Agreed, carb cleaner and a weee bit of air to help out,,,,,careful with the air as there is still another diaphram in the carb that you really don't want to blow apart.

The other thing is to get yourself some new plugs,,,, the old ones may look good but chances are that if they are of year previous to this one, there may be an issue with them. I replace mine every spring, whether I need to or not, that way I know if I have a problem it's not likely the plugs.