Questions about sidecars

[muffinman]

I have a few questions about sidecars.

Do they require there own license plate?

Do they have there own title?

Is it a rider on the insurance or a seperate policy?

Do you have parking problems (finding a spot)?

Are you more visible to the cagers?

How does the hack affect the gas milage?

 

Jeff

[WilCruise]

Had a sidecar that I never got onto the bike. Here's what I learned on some of your questions though:

I have a few questions about sidecars.

 

Do they require there own license plate?

Nope - Not in MA anyway - never seen one with it's own plate.

Do they have there own title?

Again, Not here. I think it's like a trailer - we don't need titles on those either, just some proof of ownership. That may differ by state though.

Is it a rider on the insurance or a seperate policy?

My insurance just needed it listed as a change. Cost of insurance wasn't going to change.

Do you have parking problems (finding a spot)?

Only guessing here, but no worse than a car in general. May want to stick with pull-through parking spots though since there's no reverse on a Venture. That'd limit your choices.

Are you more visible to the cagers?

A bit but I wouldn't count on it. I had planned to light mine up which would've helped.

How does the hack affect the gas milage?

Never got that far.

 

 

Jeff

[DRAGIN TAIL]

I have a few questions about sidecars.

 

Do they require there own license plate? Never seen one with it's own plate.

 

Do they have there own title? Bill of Sale

 

Is it a rider on the insurance or a seperate policy? My insurance considers it an accessorie.

 

 

Do you have parking problems (finding a spot)? Park on level ground or uphill grade since most don't have reverse gear.

 

Are you more visible to the cagers? Yes, they seem to notice you more.

 

How does the hack affect the gas milage? 15 to 20% less

 

Ronnie 83 Venture/Champion Sidecar Here is a website:smile5: that will answer all your questions about sidecars: autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/

 

Jeff

Ride Safe!

[1rooster]

I have a few questions about sidecars.

 

Do they require there own license plate?

Not in NC

 

Do they have there own title?

Not in NC

 

Is it a rider on the insurance or a seperate policy?

My agent said the sidecar becomes an extension of the bike so it is covered on my policy

 

 

Do you have parking problems (finding a spot)?

Never had a problem.I always look for slight uphill or level parking spot.12,000 on mine with no problem.

 

Are you more visible to the cagers?

I think so.Mine has lights on the front and rear,(factory)

 

How does the hack affect the gas milage?

You have been to my house so you know what kind of roads we have up here.Everyone's gas mileage is affected up here.I get about 35 on interstate and about 30 on the other roads around here.

 

Jeff

 

 

You planning on getting one? It's a whole new world of driving.You can testdrive mine next month at Asheville.

[Billet]

Had one mounted on a Sportster once.

These answers are from New Mexico where you can legally drive anything that runs.

 

Do they require there own license plate?

Not in NM

Do they have there own title?

Not here

Is it a rider on the insurance or a seperate policy?

They didn't care

Do you have parking problems (finding a spot)?

Parking problems, riding problems, cornering problems, backing up problems, You can probably tell I didn't really like it, just wasn't a motorcycle with it on. (not that a Sportster is a motorcycle to begin with)

Are you more visible to the cagers?

 

Everyone seems to notice you

How does the hack affect the gas milage?

 

This was 25 years ago, gas was 87 cents, I didn't care!

 

Good luck and be careful http://www.sidecar.com/

[PBJ]

Having ridden a hack for over 10 years here are some answers to your questions.

 

In New York you also do not have a title or need to register or plate a sidecar.Some do have plate holders so if you have an old vanity plate you can mount that.

 

In New York you can have passengers in a side car without a helmet IF you have a top on the car. Seat belts are not Required.

 

The sidecar will produce an addition drain on the electrical system but you can over come this with a car battery in the back of the car to run the bike.

 

as far as parking is concerned you can part with bikes or with cars , pulling through is a good idea though so you don'rt have to push the rig out backwards. Wingers no longer need to worry about that.

 

Gas mileage will be more determined by the weight of the passenger/load and how heavy your throttle hand is.

 

Rigs eat through tires faster because they do what is calleda "crab walk" the bike pulling the sidecar is pulled slightly to the side by the resistantce of the car this scrubs down the tire . The flatter a profile tire you can find the better or the cheapest because its going to go fast . Expect no more than two seasons if that depending how much you ride.

 

Do cagers notice you more? YES! THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT SIDECARS IS THEY ARE INCREDIBLY VISIBLE. You' d think you were riding in a brightly colored circus wagen the way people see you. Mothers, fathers , kids can see you a mile away. THEY PASS YOU SMILING AND WAVING AS IF YOUR SOME KIND OF TIME TRAVELLER THAT JUST PLOPPED DOWN IN FRONT OF THEM. Its trully amazing. The only explaination I have for it is that a sidecar is very unusual visialy and because people don't see them often it becomes a point of curiousity and grabs their attention. They definitely see you more and will even watch you as you go by. I once blew threw a speed trap at 15mph over the limit and all the cop did was smile and wave. I was shocked.

 

One last thing and this is important the sidecar WILL limit your top speed especially depending on your load as the bike pulls the car along it is plowing forward just as you would lean forward pulling a load with a rope, at a certain speed ( for my rig its about 80 to 85 the back end will get so light that the back tire actually starts to lose traction. The engine will start to rev but you won't be going any faster.

 

Remember to balance the weight between the rig and the bike. Rigs don't counter steer like a motorcycle. But the moment the car wheel leaves the ground the thing becomes a bike again and suddenly your going left when you were turning right. ITS the MOST DANGEROUS THING ABOUT A SIDECAR! Thats why you most always keep weight to the rig by leaning into it on a right hand turn ( passenger too) like a snowmobile.

 

I hope this has answered your questions and then some. Please contact me with any more questions. They are fun to ride and a challenge. Someone once told me no rides a sidecar because they just want to. They usually have family or pets to carry but once you learn to ride one its a skill you become proud of. I do ! Phil.

[Billet]

Rigs eat through tires faster because they do what is calleda "crab walk" the bike pulling the sidecar is pulled slightly to the side by the resistantce of the car this scrubs down the tire . The flatter a profile tire you can find the better or the cheapest because its going to go fast . Expect no more than two seasons if that depending how much you ride.

A sidecar could be the perfect reason to enter (THE DARK SIDE)

[PBJ]

yes its a very good reason and I've stated so in the darkside sight but finding a tire thin enough is the trick. hopefully those on the darksdide thread will help me with info.

 

But Hack'd magazine has some excellent suggestions on tires from Europe and China with old style flat profiles that work well .In fact because they're realatively cheap $30-40 bucks they recommend you buy several pairs and let them harden for better wear.

[muffinman]

Thanks for the replies

Yes Rooster I am looking at a Formula II Roadster with a flip front right now that will match the blonde here is a link to there website

http://www.motorvation.com/f2flip2a.htm

 

 

 

 

Jeff

[muffinman]

You planning on getting one? It's a whole new world of driving.You can testdrive mine next month at Asheville.

Well I am getting the hack Mini said Yes to the guys price so I will try to get it in my possesion on tuesday depending on the rain if not I wil get it wednesday.

Now to get it mounted the manufacturer is sending me info on the mounting for a first gen

I cant wait to take my Puppy for a ride and soon Ruffies little dog as well.

Jeff

[PBJ]

Driving a hack is a real ball . It takes time to learn but its a kick. There are even electric stabilizers that you can get that allow you to adjust the pitch and lean on the sidecar depending on the type of rode you ride.

 

Setting up a chair is an art form and takes time to get just to your liking. The bike needs to lean out at a 5 degree angle to the chair and the chairs nose need to piont in toward the bike. Finding just the right balance point for the loads your carrying and the road crowns you most usually ride.

 

Drainage crowns vary based on rode type . This is all important in setting her up. A good set up should only pull slighty upon serious excelleration, but be almost neutral at speed. Once crown angles are set up the bike rides straight while the chair rides balanced on the other side of the crown usually with a tire in each road track.

 

I know it sounds like alot but once you learn it all you realize you have a skill not everyone one has . Some non hackers look at a chair with distain but its not a skill everyone can do without time and practice. Once you're good through you can keep up with most everyone. Good luck Muffinman and welcome to the club.

[muffinman]

Pj are you gonna make it to the Asheville rally.I am gonna try to get it set up on the scoot so I can bring it to the rally.

Jeff

[mini-muffin]

Well he got the side car today. He'll get it home this weekend, and I'll post pics then as well.

 

Margaret

[ADC]

I'll have to come by see the new rig,maybe I can get a ride in it,I've never ridden in a sidecar:big-grin-emoticon:

[mini-muffin]

Jeff emailed me a few pics so I posted them in the pic folder section. Anytime Arthur, you know you're always welcome.

 

Margaret

[PBJ]

Pj are you gonna make it to the Asheville rally.I am gonna try to get it set up on the scoot so I can bring it to the rally.

 

 

Jeff

At this time I wasn't planning on it but I can look into possibly going. My first best advice is get a subscription to Hack'd magazine It only comes out quarterly but its chocked full of good advice. They have an On line sight too. The motorvation is a pretty good side car. Yours looks like its gotten alot of use but they 're easy to clean up and touch up. I know you're planning on using for the dogs right, just remember to add a little more weight . A battery like I suggested would be excellent and it will help with the electrical drain of the sidecar lights.

 

Different companies use different set up methods but their all basically the same. There are mounting brackets that attach to the frame and then adjustable arms that bolt in. Each arm has a specific function and each adjustment depends on the others.. On my Velorex the bottom rear is the central locator. The wheel axle of the sidecar should be about 10 inchs ahead of the bikes rear wheel axle( approximately). This creates a stability to the whole unit too far back and it causes too much drag too far forward and it plows. the front lowrer arm controls toe in or the amount the car points toward the bike. The rear upper arm control the tilt forward or back of the car. And the upper front controlls the bikes lean out away from the car to compensate for road crowning. Crowning is thwe curve for water run off built into roads . With an ideal set up the bike and car ride the crown on either side with enough lean out the bike become straight while running down the road . I'

hope i'm not babbling if you want we can talk on the phone.

[DRAGIN TAIL]

Well I am getting the hack Mini said Yes to the guys price so I will try to get it in my possesion on tuesday depending on the rain if not I wil get it wednesday.

 

Now to get it mounted the manufacturer is sending me info on the mounting for a first gen

 

I cant wait to take my Puppy for a ride and soon Ruffies little dog as well.

 

Jeff

 

Congratulations on the new sidecar. You'll have fun coming up with a mounting system for it. I've been working on mounting mine for a couple of weeks when I get a chance. There are not many good mounting spots that are easily accessible. Keep us informed on your progress. If you need any assistance from me (for what it's worth) just drop me an email or post here. I check this thread most days. If the manufacturer emails you mounting instructions would you mind copying them to my email. I'm working off a subframe and have attached it in several spots. One of the problems I've run into is that the bottom frame is so very close to the engine that it precludes using most traditional mounts. I've used a combination of spilt collars and welded brackets to them. Still haven't tested it. Ride Safe, Ronnie in East TN

[PBJ]

Don't rush the set up unless you know someone thats done a few. Theres knowing worst than fighting a rig down the road thats not set up properly its exhausting to say the very least and not alot of fun if your constantly having to hold it straight cause its wanting to pull one way or the other. A prpoer set up should allow you to hole the tiller( Bars) with one hand without alot of effort to go straight down the road. A set up is always a compromise to roads too. If you ride mostly highways then back roads will be trickier and vise versa.

Don't forget a chair is NOT a motorcycle you push right to go right, left to go left until that chair wheel lift off the ground then its a motorcycle again. NEVER forget this! If you do it could be the last mistake you make especially if a car or truck is coming the other way. Ask my girl friend Joanna sometime about our Adirondack trip last year, talk about close calls, and i've been riding a chair for ten years

[SaltyDawg]

Pj are you gonna make it to the Asheville rally.I am gonna try to get it set up on the scoot so I can bring it to the rally.

 

 

Jeff

 

WHAT????? Your not planning on bringing the SSB?

[PBJ]

Of how the set up is going. Do you have someone close thats set up a chair before to help? Does the Motorvation come with a brake? Will you be setting that up too? I'll be glad to help with any advice i can send.

[greg_in_london]

Hi Muffinman,

 

Follow the basic ideas and you won't go too far wrong.

 

The sidecar wheel has to 'toe-in' slightly towards the bike (like tracking on a car) or you'll have a hard time on the bends.

The bike should 'lean-out' slightly from the sidecar so it pulls slightly that way, counteracting the pull of the sidecar when cruising.

The sidecar wheel should be 9-12" ahead of the rear wheel, else it will wear dramaticallt through scrubbing on bends and possibly also reduce front wheel braking. (Needs to be a long way forward, but can be noticeable).

 

The thing that you want is to check the way you attach the fittings - somewhere around Friday afternoon, when setting the outfit up, you'll be tempted to just whack in a fitting which attaches to the bike at one end and the sidecar at the other without thinking about the job it has to do. Post some pictures and we'll all point out possible problems if it looks as if it won't be rigid.

[Common problems are using eyebolts all round and then watching the outfit hinge in the middle !]

[mini-muffin]

Thanks guys your really helpful. I know he's working on where to hook it up at and all. Not sure when he's gonna try it. He'll be home this weekend with it, so I'm sure you'll be hearing from him about what he's done or thinks he can do.

 

Thanks again

 

Margaret

[PBJ]

Hi Muffinman,

 

Follow the basic ideas and you won't go too far wrong.

 

The sidecar wheel has to 'toe-in' slightly towards the bike (like tracking on a car) or you'll have a hard time on the bends.

The bike should 'lean-out' slightly from the sidecar so it pulls slightly that way, counteracting the pull of the sidecar when cruising.

The sidecar wheel should be 9-12" ahead of the rear wheel, else it will wear dramaticallt through scrubbing on bends and possibly also reduce front wheel braking. (Needs to be a long way forward, but can be noticeable).

 

The thing that you want is to check the way you attach the fittings - somewhere around Friday afternoon, when setting the outfit up, you'll be tempted to just whack in a fitting which attaches to the bike at one end and the sidecar at the other without thinking about the job it has to do. Post some pictures and we'll all point out possible problems if it looks as if it won't be rigid.

[Common problems are using eyebolts all round and then watching the outfit hinge in the middle !]

 

 

There ya go Jeff now you've heard it from both sides of the Atlantic. Print out Greg's and my posts and keep them in a file they should come in handing along with your instructions. And thanks Greg for backin me up on the set up advice.

[muffinman]

Thanks for the advice PJ and Greg.I am going to try and wait till I get the info from Motorvation on the mounts they make to install this chair to my bike.But if it take to long for the mounting info I will be making my own mounts.I looked at it today and am pretty sure that it will be relativly easy to make mounts to fit the bike.But knowing me they will be overkill if I make them.

I plan on mounting the chair to the SS bike to learn how to ride a hack rig and then teach Mini how to handle the outfit.If she likes it We will then paint the chair and her bike to match and it will get setup on the 92 permenantly for her to have when she wants it.Right now she has not even seen the chair so she may not even care for it pictures can be decieving.How do you think I got her? LOL

I will let you all know the setup progress and get pics posted here as I go.

Yes if I get the Info from Motorvation I will be glad to send a copy to the member that asked for it.

Jeff

[muffinman]

Of how the set up is going. Do you have someone close thats set up a chair before to help? Does the Motorvation come with a brake? Will you be setting that up too? I'll be glad to help with any advice i can send.

Yup got the disk brake on it and Yes I will be setting it up with some help from those who know what they are doing.

I am going to be asking alot of questions from you that are expierienced with Hacks and will be putting the advice to the rig I know nothing about setting up or riding Sidecars and will greatly appreciate all the info sent my way.

Phil I will give you a call over the weekend if I get started on the setup.Thanks for the offer.

Jeff