CARB TUNE #1 carb o

[talonsx2]

So I finally took the carb tune out of the box (That i received two months ago)and took a dive into Synching the carbs so I got er all hooked up, got er started and well?, (I can say that my first gen 84 venture royale runs like a champ with an estimated 65000 miles on her and only running on 3?, well we'll just say 2 1/4 carbs. I can hardly wait to run on 4 carbs that are all synched together.) so back to the post, I didnt actually get to synch the carbs today because i am now going to have to rebuild at the very least one carb #1 and since IM there I might as well go ahead and do them all. I hook it all up and started it and found 1 running at 0 #2 running at around 8 and 3&4 running at 35 or so. Has anybody else found this before? and is there an easier fix for now before rebuilding the carbs? Also, does anyone have the part # for the VMAX floats that work in the first genner carbs?

 

Can I just say that I love my royale......

:225:Thank you all for your time.

 

 

Mike

[Eck]

cool beans...

Heck, now we know who can bring a carb tune and sync carbs at the VR meet & eats...

Yep, got to be careful what you advertise around here.. It may become a full time job

[Pappa Bear]

Did you try to adjust them at all? Are you saying there was 0 vac on 1 carb and a little on another? What does your motor feel like during accelloration, smooth or a bit rough?

[Pappa Bear]

Before you yank those carbs off take a look at the diaphragms, and check for holes in the rubber.

[Condor]

I'd back off the right rear balance screw first, and see if the idle drops. If the RPM's start to drop it means your running off 3&4 at idle. Keep bringing the idle back up to 1000rpm with the #2 idle adjuster knob until the R's no longer drop when the right rear is backed off. Now check your vacuum on 1&2. Bet it comes up... I always back the right side (3&4) off before doing a sync. Makes syncing a lot easier starting from scratch.

[talonsx2]

That is what l am saying PaPPa Bear, There is nothing on the #1 carb at this time. The bike runs like a champ no studder ever.... I will check a few things that have been posted. Thank you all for your replies...

 

PS- I was reading the post on the stolen part at the last meet and greet and it took me back 7 years when some Jack*ss decided he needed my Venture more than I. Long story short they drilled the locks and the saddle bags and got away with (1 Helmet and a pair of leather gloves). I would have given them the Helmet and gloves instead of having to deal with trying to find used bags from the salvage yard to buy the locking mechanism and then having to pay for new lock and key. Now I have 4 different keys for my bike....Its a real pain in the (insert your own word of choice).

 

Thanks all and keep the rubber on the road..

 

 

Michael

[Snaggletooth]

The float number I got fits the VMax and '88 and new VRs. Off the top of my head I think it was 1FK and then for sure 14985-00-00. Looks like the the same float that's in my '84. I'm ordering 4 of them for mine.

[talonsx2]

Hey Snaggletooth I just wanted to make sure that they will work on the 84 Venture so I dont buy another paper weight (Barnett Clutch Basket still for sale if anyone wants it???) that is for the sec gen,and not the first genner.. So please let me know. Thanks for your replies..

Stay safe and keep the rubber on the road.

Michael

[mm482]

The engine is an air pump. 0 vacuum on one cylinder is not good. I would check that vacuum port and make sure that it is open (not restricted). If the vacuum port is open and there is no vacuum when the engine is running, I would do a compression test on that cylinder. You should have around 140 PSI.

Earl

86 VR

00 RSV

[GeorgeS]

You might have an Intake Manifold leak ??? If I understand you correctly.

 

If its running there has to be some vaccume there.

 

Did you try changing the tubes from the meter, to different cylinders,

its possible there is a problem with the Test Equipment.

[dans87vr]

I purchased a sync tool it wasnt the same as yours but it came with a hose fitting that allowed me to connect all 4 into one. It actually had 6 hose fittings on it so I just capped one. So all 4 lines were connected to it, one was pluged and the last one connected to carb 1 with a short 6 inch hose.

 

here are the steps I used to sync my 87VR as instructed from users manual

1. connect all 4 sync hoses to a single carb with fitting

2. start engine and level all 4 readings VIA adjusting screws on the sync tool

3. once all 4 are level, stop engine, remove fitting and then connect a hose to each carb

4. start engine and sync carbs.

 

I would recommend checking the sync tool before digging into the carbs.

 

Three "T" connectors, and 3 short pieces of hose would allow you to do the same thing. I do however think most auto parts stores have the multiport hose connectors if you can find one with 5 or 6 that would be the way to go.

 

 

[az1103]

Sorry, but something here isn't right. I wouldn't go tearing into those carbs before determining the source of your vaccum loss. Your engine is not a V twin, there is no way it's going to run smooth on two cylinders. I suspect you have a blocked vaccum tube or two. If you have an air compressor I would try to blow those tubes clear. If that doesn't do it spray some carb-cleaner or WD-40 in the tube, let it sit for a couple of minutes and blow it through again. If you have no compressor connect one of the carbtune hoses without the damping insert and see if you can blow it through, just blow, don't inhale, particularly if using carb cleaner. Once you are certain that air can get through those tubes then try dropping the pressure in the other two as someone suggested above.

But I suspect that once you clear those tubes, it will all become clear. There is no way you have 0 vaccum!!!!

[Freeman50]

I'd back off the right rear balance screw first, and see if the idle drops. If the RPM's start to drop it means your running off 3&4 at idle. Keep bringing the idle back up to 1000rpm with the #2 idle adjuster knob until the R's no longer drop when the right rear is backed off. Now check your vacuum on 1&2. Bet it comes up... I always back the right side (3&4) off before doing a sync. Makes syncing a lot easier starting from scratch.

Ihave this at idle runs on 3&4 only when you say #2 idle know are you talking abouting the main idle

knob on left side that adj idle for all crads

[Condor]

Ihave this at idle runs on 3&4 only when you say #2 idle know are you talking abouting the main idle

knob on left side that adj idle for all crads

 

If you back off the right side and the idle starts to drop, then the right side is controlling the idle. This happens when a Previous owner doesn't know where the idle 'knob' is and will start turning the sync screws in on the #4 or #3 carb. The #2 carb is the benchmark for all other carbs to be set to. With a tight 4&3 even when you turn the knob it actually opening up the right side. So. Here's what needs to be done the first time a new owner tries to sync his new2him bike. I wrote this up a while ago because I got tired of writing it from scratch every time. There is a method to my madness....

This is something I stumbled on while syncing several different 1stGen bikes. I’ve never done this to a 2ndGen, but feel it should work equally as well.

Take it for what it’s worth, but basically it is carb syncing from scratch, or Carb Sync 101. This could increase gas mileage, throttle response, and smoothness

After checking the sync on a set of carbs, and ‘tweaking’ as necessary, there’s the possibility of getting the sync screws on #4 and #3 over snug, and one of the other carbs becoming idle dominate. When adjusting the idle screw, the idle is not being controlled by the #2 carb. .

#1 Adjust all idle jets to 2.25-2.75 turns out from closed before starting the engine.

#2 Start the engine and let it warm up, and then turn it off.

#2 Back off all 3 sync screws several turns.

#3 Restart the engine, adjust the idle rpm to 1000 using the idle knob (the engine will run very rough at this point but don’t be concerned), and let it warm up to operating temp.

#4 DO NOT HOOK UP THE CARBTUNE YET

#5 Adjust the sync screw on #1 carb (LHS) by ear until the rpm barely starts to increase, and then back it off a tad.

.

#6 Turn off the engine, and hook up the Carbtune.

#7 Check the balance between #2 (LF) and #1 (LR). They should be close to balancing. Tweak as necessary.

#8 Here’s where things start to happen. Move to the right side and using the rear sync screw adjust the balance of #4 (RF) and #3 (RR). They should be way out of sync. As they start to come into balance the idle will start to increase. When it gets above 2000 reduce the idle back down to 1000 with the idle knob on the left side. Continue adjusting 4 and 3, and continue adjusting the idle as necessary.

#9 Once 4 and 3 are in balance, balance the left to the right using the front sync screw.

That should do it. Blip the throttle a few times. Things should be good.

[twigg]

I purchased a sync tool it wasnt the same as yours but it came with a hose fitting that allowed me to connect all 4 into one. It actually had 6 hose fittings on it so I just capped one. So all 4 lines were connected to it, one was pluged and the last one connected to carb 1 with a short 6 inch hose.

 

here are the steps I used to sync my 87VR as instructed from users manual

1. connect all 4 sync hoses to a single carb with fitting

2. start engine and level all 4 readings VIA adjusting screws on the sync tool

3. once all 4 are level, stop engine, remove fitting and then connect a hose to each carb

4. start engine and sync carbs.

 

I would recommend checking the sync tool before digging into the carbs.

 

Three "T" connectors, and 3 short pieces of hose would allow you to do the same thing. I do however think most auto parts stores have the multiport hose connectors if you can find one with 5 or 6 that would be the way to go.

 

 

 

That method is for the gauges with dials .... they need syncing first.

 

Carbtune is a manometer and doesn't work like that.

[V7Goose]

If you back off the right side and the idle starts to drop, then the right side is controlling the idle. This happens when a Previous owner doesn't know where the idle 'knob' is and will start turning the sync screws in on the #4 or #3 carb. The #2 carb is the benchmark for all other carbs to be set to. With a tight 4&3 even when you turn the knob it actually opening up the right side. So. Here's what needs to be done the first time a new owner tries to sync his new2him bike. I wrote this up a while ago because I got tired of writing it from scratch every time. There is a method to my madness....

 

This is something I stumbled on while syncing several different 1stGen bikes. I’ve never done this to a 2ndGen, but feel it should work equally as well.

 

Take it for what it’s worth, but basically it is carb syncing from scratch, or Carb Sync 101. This could increase gas mileage, throttle response, and smoothness

--snip--

 

This procedure is not appropriate for a 2nd gen. I know nothing about the ancient 1st gens, so I cannot comment on it for those bikes.

 

In addition, I would generally discourage anyone form touching the mixture screws on any machine unless they fully understand how they should be set correctly on a specific motor.

 

That method is for the gauges with dials .... they need syncing first.

Carbtune is a manometer and doesn't work like that.

No, the carbtune is not a manometer. In fact, it measures neither vacuum nor pressure - it actually measures the volume of air flowing thorough it.

 

ALL tools that use multiple displays to measure vacuum (or an approximation of vacuum, like the Carbtune) need to be checked for calibration by using a common manifold connected to one vacuum source (a pump is best, but single carb connection can be used). The Carbtune cannot be adjusted for calibration like the gauges can, but I have seen them come from the factory out of calibration. Even though the reading cannot be changed, you need to know if the tool you are using reads identical on each port so you can take the actual reading into account when you are setting the carbs.

Goose

Edited March 29, 2011 by V7Goose

[V7Goose]

So I finally took the carb tune out of the box (That i received two months ago)and took a dive into Synching the carbs so I got er all hooked up, got er started and well?, (I can say that my first gen 84 venture royale runs like a champ with an estimated 65000 miles on her and only running on 3?, well we'll just say 2 1/4 carbs. I can hardly wait to run on 4 carbs that are all synched together.) so back to the post, I didnt actually get to synch the carbs today because i am now going to have to rebuild at the very least one carb #1 and since IM there I might as well go ahead and do them all. I hook it all up and started it and found 1 running at 0 #2 running at around 8 and 3&4 running at 35 or so. Has anybody else found this before? and is there an easier fix for now before rebuilding the carbs? Also, does anyone have the part # for the VMAX floats that work in the first genner carbs?

 

Mike

As several others have already noted in this thread, you should not be thinking of touching the carbs on your bike until you find out what is wrong with your vacuum readings. It is impossible for you to have zero vacuum on one cylinder unless there is either a big hole in the intake tract for that cylinder, or there is a cylinder problem. For zero vacuum, you would either have to have a hole in the piston or the exhaust valve is staying very far open on the intake stroke. The only way the carburetor could be causing zero vacuum at the vacuum port is if the slide is stuck wide open.

 

Much more likely that either of those possibilities would be the vacuum port is plugged or something wrong with your tool.

 

Most of that also applies equally to the cylinder that shows very low vacuum.

 

If you want to quickly verify if a cylinder actually has vacuum, just take off the air intake from the carbs and briefly place your hand or a piece of paper over each carb while the engine is running. If the paper is sucked up to the carb, there IS vacuum. And if the sound of the engine changes at the same time, then the cylinder was actually getting power from that carb.

 

Goose

[twigg]

This procedure is not appropriate for a 2nd gen. I know nothing about the ancient 1st gens, so I cannot comment on it for those bikes.

 

In addition, I would generally discourage anyone form touching the mixture screws on any machine unless they fully understand how they should be set correctly on a specific motor.

 

No, the carbtune is not a manometer. In fact, it measures neither vacuum nor pressure - it actually measures the volume of air flowing thorough it.

 

ALL tools that use multiple displays to measure vacuum (or an approximation of vacuum, like the Carbtune) need to be checked for calibration by using a common manifold connected to one vacuum source (a pump is best, but single carb connection can be used). The Carbtune cannot be adjusted for calibration like the gauges can, but I have seen them come from the factory out of calibration. Even though the reading cannot be changed, you need to know if the tool you are using reads identical on each port so you can take the actual reading into account when you are setting the carbs.

Goose

 

The Morgan Carbtune uses stainless steel rods, and needs no calibrating.

 

If it's out, send it back because the tubes are matched at the factory.

[V7Goose]

The Morgan Carbtune uses stainless steel rods, and needs no calibrating.

 

If it's out, send it back because the tubes are matched at the factory.

Yes, stainless steel rods and long floppy springs. And because it sucks air through it, it gets contaminated inside, which affects its accuracy. If I owned one, I sure wouldn't like to pay shipping and wait for a return to/from England, but you are right - that is the only option they give you. They claim it needs no calibration and state in the documentation that it CANNOT be calibrated. But they are clearly wrong when new ones come out of the box not reading the same on all four rods.

 

This is absolutely not a precision instrument - the springs will change temper at different rates over time, so even if you happen to get one that is properly calibrated at first, it won't stay that way. It may last six months or six years (or sixty), I don't know; no two springs will change calibration at the same rate, but it WILL change. And when you consider the contamination issue, regularly checking that tool on a single manifold is much more important than it is with other types of sync tools.

Goose

[twigg]

Yes, stainless steel rods and long floppy springs. And because it sucks air through it, it gets contaminated inside, which affects its accuracy. If I owned one, I sure wouldn't like to pay shipping and wait for a return to/from England, but you are right - that is the only option they give you. They claim it needs no calibration and state in the documentation that it CANNOT be calibrated. But they are clearly wrong when new ones come out of the box not reading the same on all four rods.

 

This is absolutely not a precision instrument - the springs will change temper at different rates over time, so even if you happen to get one that is properly calibrated at first, it won't stay that way. It may last six months or six years (or sixty), I don't know; no two springs will change calibration at the same rate, but it WILL change. And when you consider the contamination issue, regularly checking that tool on a single manifold is much more important than it is with other types of sync tools.

Goose

 

I have no idea what you are talking about here.

 

The Morgan CarbTune does not have springs. It has encapsultaed stainless steel rods that float in machined guides. The two or four tube are matched at the factory, and cannot go out of calibration unless they are abused.

 

You must be thinking of something else.

 

It very much is an accurate precision instrument.

[friesman]

wait for it......

 

 

brian

[V7Goose]

I have no idea what you are talking about here.

 

The Morgan CarbTune does not have springs. It has encapsultaed stainless steel rods that float in machined guides. The two or four tube are matched at the factory, and cannot go out of calibration unless they are abused.

 

You must be thinking of something else.

 

It very much is an accurate precision instrument.

Yes, the Morgan

Carbtune does have springs - take it apart and you will see. the steel rods do not "float" in anything. They are attached to the springs with a nut on the threaded end of the rod that is locked in place. I HAVE been able to calibrate one of those tools by manipulating the spring, but this is not an approved method. IMHO, the term "float" cannot be applied to the function of the rods - they just rattle around inside the tubes. In fact, the documentation you get with that tool specifically tells you that the rods MUST be rattling (or vibrating - can't remember the exact word they use) at all times, since that is the only way you know it is not stuck to the side of the tube. And all six of those tools that I have used, including one that I unpacked straight from Morgan, stick constantly.

 

You are free to consider it a precision instrument if you like, but I find it a piece of junk with nothing precise about it. I provided the technical details to help others understand why I have that opinion and decide if they want to believe it or not. But it is still just that - an opinion.

 

But the bottom line, and why I posted in this thread in the first place, is that you can NEVER assume that a sync tool with multiple mechanisms, gauges, rods, tubes, etc. is reading the same on each cylinder UNLESS you have checked it on a manifold to a single vacuum source. It is not important if you like the tool I like or not - just check whatever tool you choose to use so that you will actually know if it is reading the same on all ports. ALL of them, including the Carbtune, DO need to be checked.

Goose

[twigg]

You are correct about the springs ... I was wrong.

 

However, if you find that it is out of sync, I would still suggest returning it and having the factory reset the rods. It's not going to be an easy job, and why risk ruining it?

 

Yes, it is more than precision enough for our purposes, as the very many independent reviews and happy owners testify.

 

There are many similar units, and none of them get such high praise from anyone.

[Squeeze]

I' with Goose here. A Buddy of mine handed me his freshly aquired Morgan Pouch and one Rod was sticking. It was the first use ...

 

Also what they call "Restrictors" is funny and cheap but sure doesn't belong into a "high Precision Tool". These Restrictors fit rather loose into the Vacuum Hose the provide. Regardless what others say, I refrain from using the Carb Tune again. Not worth any Effort.

 

Even if one Dial on a 4-Dial Gauge setup is a bit off, you still can work with it, if the Offset is the same over the Measurement Range, but the Rods stick, slide, stick again ...

[twigg]

You all can please yourselves.

 

But if you prefer the dial type, you lose a lot of credibility.

 

Sorry, that's just how it is.

 

It never ceases to amaze me how a few folk on a single website can spoil the reputation of a perfectly decent tool, while pretty much everyone else sings it's praises.