To clutch, or not to clutch. THAT is the question.

[Schlepporello]

OK, now here's the deal. When I was growing up, dad had bought us kids the traditional little Japanese bikes for puttering around on at the local dirt bike riding area. Once we would get the bike under way, we never used the clutch for shifting because they shifted so easily without it just by letting off the gas and hitting the shift lever. That was when I was young and stoopid. Now I'm old, cranky and battle scarred (married:Avatars_Gee_George:). As the owner of a recently purchased Venture, I've got a question concerning proper clutch use. It's been a long time since I had a bike and I caught myself using the clutch for all shifting (force of habit caused by all that truck driving). This got me wondering. I've never had a bike with a hydraulic clutch and I've certainly never had a Venture before. Is it in the bike's best interest to use the clutch for all shifting or do I need to revert the ways of my youth and use the clutch only for starting, stopping and downshifting?

 

Thanks y'all!

[Freebird]

Personally, I use my clutch about 99.9% of the time. I have on rare occasions for various reasons shifted without it.

[Condor]

Like Freebird I use the clutch all the time, but I'm pretty agressive when running up or down thru the gears and wonder if squeezing the lever really makes any difference????

[SaltyDawg]

A lot of Venture riders only use the clutch for starting out then shift clutchless. I do it on occasion but would have to say about 80% of the time I use the clutch. I don't think it hurts theses things to shift without the clutch.

[MiCarl]

Using the clutch will significantly reduce wear on the gear dogs, shifter drum and shift forks. It also reduces the chance of bending the shift forks. Unless rebuilding transmissions is your hobby you should use the clutch.

 

BTW, the same was true of the dirt bikes. You were prematurely wearing out those transmissions.

[tmodel]

I agree with MiCarl. I spoke to my Yama mechanic when I first bought this bike. He said basically what the previous post said. Use the clutch... save a tranny.

[BuddyRich]

I do about 50/50. If I'm just cruisin along then I don't use the clutch. If I really want to get going then I use it and speedshift. If its heavy traffic then I'll use it in the lower 2 gears because of all the stop and go.

[pegscraper]

It's always been my habit to use the clutch for the 1 - 2, and then not use it for the rest of them, upshifting, that is. I always use it downshifting. The harder I'm into the throttle, the smoother it goes. But if I'm accelerating very slowly, like in traffic, the clutch pretty well has to be used; at that rate it just won't shift smooth at all. I find that if I'm into it full throttle, it takes longer to execute a shift with the clutch than it does to wind through the gear. That's a serious time waster. Not going to use it there.

[Schlepporello]

I agree with MiCarl. I spoke to my Yama mechanic when I first bought this bike. He said basically what the previous post said. Use the clutch... save a tranny.

That's kinda what I'd thought. It seems like I'd heard some techs saying to use the clutch for all shifting when I was younger, but being bulletproof and stupid I was going to do as I pleased. And we wore the bikes out before the trannys ever had a chance to go out.

 

I wouldn't have given it a second thought had it not been for the fact that I fell in to the practice just recently when test riding a few Gold Wings. I'm not in that big a hurry any more and I can afford to spend a fraction of a second to use the clutch.

[Skid]

I use the clutch about 99.9% of the time. Occassionaly when I got a cup of coffee in my left hand I've not used the clutch, but other than that I would use it......

Although, I lost my clutch at the 1st Vogel and rode home without one.

[SilvrT]

I use the clutch starting, stopping, downshifting, and from 1st to 2nd 100% of the time. I shift without it from 2nd to 3rd to 4th to 5th appx 75% of the time. I've been doing it this way for years and over 5 different scoots. I find shifting without the clutch very easy whether you're cranking it on or just easilly going up thru the gears. It also makes a HUGE difference when having a "drag race" with some other biker especially when they don't shift without the clutch. Never had tranny problems and my clutches last forever ...

[86er]

I use the clutch a little more on the Venture than the Intruder, but that's only because the Intruder lends itself to having the left hand hang beside the bike!

 

When I was learning to drive buses, I was taught that the clutch is for getting the load moving! After that it was superfluous. I don't even use it much in my '50 GMC truck.

 

[Yammer Dan]

Hard to get that front wheel off the ground without clutch!!!

I use it most of the time.

[pegscraper]

In the book Total Control, the author advocates not using a clutch, and claims that if it's done right, it's actually easier on the transmission than using it. He describes the technique, which is not exactly the way I have ever done it. I'm away from my bike for a few days, but when I get back to it, I'll give his method a try.

[SilvrT]

In the book Total Control, the author advocates not using a clutch, and claims that if it's done right, it's actually easier on the transmission than using it. He describes the technique, which is not exactly the way I have ever done it. I'm away from my bike for a few days, but when I get back to it, I'll give his method a try.

 

Tell us more pls....

[pegscraper]

The way I've always done it is to go through all the motions just like normal, except you just don't pull the clutch lever. In Total Control by Lee Parks, he describes this a little differently. I happen to have the book with me even though I'm away. The book allows quoting brief passages, so I'll copy the text.

 

"The basic upshifting technique involves preloading the shift lever by pressing your foot down with just slightly less force than that needed to engage the next gear. Next, quickly roll off the throttle approximately 25 percent of its twisting range. When this happens, the torque force on the transmission will temporarily unload, and the preloaded shift lever will now snick into the next gear. For regular shifts at less than full throttle, a simultaneous, light stab of the clutch will help ease this process. For full throttle speed shifting, no clutch is necessary. In fact, it's actually harder on the transmission to use the clutch in this type of situation than to just let the loading forces do the job. Most riders are amazed the first time they find that they don't need to used the clutch in high performance shifting. These techniques will make the ride noticeably smoother for passengers as well."

[SilvrT]

The way I've always done it is to go through all the motions just like normal, except you just don't pull the clutch lever. In Total Control by Lee Parks, he describes this a little differently. I happen to have the book with me even though I'm away. The book allows quoting brief passages, so I'll copy the text.

 

"The basic upshifting technique involves preloading the shift lever by pressing your foot down with just slightly less force than that needed to engage the next gear. Next, quickly roll off the throttle approximately 25 percent of its twisting range. When this happens, the torque force on the transmission will temporarily unload, and the preloaded shift lever will now snick into the next gear. For regular shifts at less than full throttle, a simultaneous, light stab of the clutch will help ease this process. For full throttle speed shifting, no clutch is necessary. In fact, it's actually harder on the transmission to use the clutch in this type of situation than to just let the loading forces do the job. Most riders are amazed the first time they find that they don't need to used the clutch in high performance shifting. These techniques will make the ride noticeably smoother for passengers as well."

 

cool.. thanks for sharing this info from the book... that's pretty much how I do the shift without the clutch...preload the shift lever...quick "back-off" the throttle ... tranny pops into next gear... roll back on the throttle. It doesn't take much of a "back-off" on the throttle either but I've found to make sure you have a good pre-load and follow through fully on the shift lever when the upshift occurs.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

The way I've always done it is to go through all the motions just like normal, except you just don't pull the clutch lever. In Total Control by Lee Parks, he describes this a little differently. I happen to have the book with me even though I'm away. The book allows quoting brief passages, so I'll copy the text.

 

"The basic upshifting technique involves preloading the shift lever by pressing your foot down [ He means up! ]with just slightly less force than that needed to engage the next gear. Next, quickly roll off the throttle approximately 25 percent of its twisting range. When this happens, the torque force on the transmission will temporarily unload, and the preloaded shift lever will now snick into the next gear.

 

Ok..in some of my previous posts I have referred to speed-shifting. I thought EVERY motorcycle rider knew what it was. Apparently I was was wrong to assume that.

 

The technique described in the second paragraph above is called speed-shifting. Preload the lever, blip the throttle, poof! Its done!

 

I'm guessing its the old dirt bike rider in us that comes out once in a awhile.

 

 

[SilvrT]

Ok..in some of my previous posts I have referred to speed-shifting. I thought EVERY motorcycle rider knew what it was. Apparently I was was wrong to assume that.

 

one should never ass-u-me ..... LOL

 

I never took any rider courses but I'd wonder if they even teach that method. My son never heard of it and he's just finished taking his M/C course to get his license... neither had his buddy who took the same course althought that guy had been riding off and on for a few years already. Have to chuckle tho... I'm trying to teach my son how to shift that way but for some reason, he's afraid to... I guess just not enuf riding experience... lack of confidence a bit still. I've been doing it so long I can't even remember when I first learned how but at least as far back as my Honda 500-4 which was over 30 years ago.

[dynodon]

I usually use the clutch all the time. But one day, for some reason, I was going through the gears, and I think between 2 and 3, I just stabbed the shift lever and rolled back the throttle at the same time, and forgot the clutch lever! Went into gear slick. Surprised me.

 

I would think not using the clutch, and doing the pre-load thing would wear the parts quicker than using the clutch?

[GigaWhiskey]

I speed shift with the clutch.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

I would think not using the clutch, and doing the pre-load thing would wear the parts quicker than using the clutch?

 

Well, when speed-shifting, you are normally in a hurry, trying to get down the road in all due haste. Its a trade off. Unless you ride like that ALL the time, and if you do it smoothly, its probably not gonna wear much more than using the clutch.

 

Speed shifting is what is used by riders at the drag strip. Depending on which class of races you are in, you may be shifting with your foot, or, using an air or electric shift assist, with a button on the handlebars. Of course, some drag bikes only have one gear, so there is no shifting at all there, just a lockup race clutch. But I digress.

 

As far as speed-shifting your street bike, doing it a LOT, with lots of wide open throttle settings, is gonna wear everything else out quicker...tires, gears, oil, cam chains..all of it.

Edited July 15, 2008 by tx2sturgis

[Guest tx2sturgis]

one should never ass-u-me ..... LOL

 

I never took any rider courses but I'd wonder if they even teach that method.

 

 

I doubt they even mention it at all. They dont want the newbies out there thrashing the tranny on those shiny new Honda 125's!!