First Generation clutch help

[whozleft]

Can anyone tell me where the clutch bleeder screw is on a first generation? My friend has one that needs worked on.

 

Thanks a bunch

[Condor]

On the left hand side of the motor between the stator cover and the middle gear cover there's a square rubber plug. Pull it up and walah!! There it is...

[whozleft]

Thanks a bunch.

[Ozark]

Good luck with bleeding it. Sometimes everything is quick and easy. Sometimes not!! I almost used the hole bottle of fluid before I got a good lever pressure. Just be patient. I'm sure someone on this site will have a good method for doing it though.

[Dragonslayer]

see my recent thread "New Project bike xvz1200 Yics?" There is some info on bleeding system, speed bleeders from Condor He is the speed bleeder expert according to experts.

[Yammer Dan]

On the clutch if you just pull the lever in against the handlebar and tie it there loosen cap reservoir and leave it overnight it will bleed itself. IT WORKS!!

[Condor]

On the clutch if you just pull the lever in against the handlebar and tie it there loosen cap reservoir and leave it overnight it will bleed itself. IT WORKS!!

 

With all due respect Dan. Before rebuilding the clutch slave I also tried the lever thing, and it didn't work. I've also heard that pulling the lever in half way would do it, but I now know it can't either.

When you pull the lever it pushes the piston and cup beyond the fluid expansion hole that would allow any air to get out of the lines. Unless there's another way for air to get out of the system I don't know about?? If you look at the pic below, when the lever is relaxed the cup lip sits between the larger fluid supply hole and the smaller hole on the left which lets hot expanded fluid out, and the clutch line volume to equalize. I don't know if that would be the correct terminology but it's the best I can do...old age thing....

[Squeeze]

With all due respect Dan. Before rebuilding the clutch slave I also tried the lever thing, and it didn't work. I've also heard that pulling the lever in half way would do it, but I now know it can't either.

When you pull the lever it pushes the piston and cup beyond the fluid expansion hole that would allow any air to get out of the lines. Unless there's another way for air to get out of the system I don't know about?? If you look at the pic below, when the lever is relaxed the cup lip sits between the larger fluid supply hole and the smaller hole on the left which lets hot expanded fluid out, and the clutch line volume to equalize. I don't know if that would be the correct terminology but it's the best I can do...old age thing....

 

Jack, basically, you're right in your Description. The Air can't get out unless the Lever is left loose the next Day. But you have to see what happens while you hold the Line under Pressure for a long Time, e.g. 8 Hours at least. All the Air in the Line is forced due the Pressure in the Line towards the most upwards Points in the Line. This could either be the Clutch Slave or the Clutch Reservoir. Once you let the Lever out on the next Morning, most of the Air will come out through the Expansion Hole on the bottom of the Reservoir. You may even be able to pump the Air out of the Line.

 

 

Last Time i bled my Clutch on the Venture, even when using every Trick and Tool, i couldn't build up a good Pressure in Line. Always felt squishy. I pulled the Lever and went home. The next Day, a Lot of Air cam out, but still not the Feeling like i has to be. So i brought up my Tools again and prepared to use my Air Pressure driven Vacuum Bleeder. I was so frustrated, i even opened the Bleeder and wanted to let the Fluid drip out of the Valve, but there was none to see. I pulled the Lever, once, twice, three Times and i was like i would see Bubbles coming up through the Bleeder. Another two or three Strokes brought Fluid up and i closed the Bleeder. Whalla ....

 

Another Night with pulled Lever to the Handlebar and everything was perfect.

[Condor]

Jack, basically, you're right in your Description. The Air can't get out unless the Lever is left loose the next Day. But you have to see what happens while you hold the Line under Pressure for a long Time, e.g. 8 Hours at least. All the Air in the Line is forced due the Pressure in the Line towards the most upwards Points in the Line. This could either be the Clutch Slave or the Clutch Reservoir. Once you let the Lever out on the next Morning, most of the Air will come out through the Expansion Hole on the bottom of the Reservoir. You may even be able to pump the Air out of the Line.

 

 

Last Time i bled my Clutch on the Venture, even when using every Trick and Tool, i couldn't build up a good Pressure in Line. Always felt squishy. I pulled the Lever and went home. The next Day, a Lot of Air cam out, but still not the Feeling like i has to be. So i brought up my Tools again and prepared to use my Air Pressure driven Vacuum Bleeder. I was so frustrated, i even opened the Bleeder and wanted to let the Fluid drip out of the Valve, but there was none to see. I pulled the Lever, once, twice, three Times and i was like i would see Bubbles coming up through the Bleeder. Another two or three Strokes brought Fluid up and i closed the Bleeder. Whalla ....

 

Another Night with pulled Lever to the Handlebar and everything was perfect.

 

The pressure created by the lever being pulled in is very low Squeeze. You probably could have accomplised the same thing by just leaving it sit overnight. Under pressure soluble air will remain soluble, and only seperate when presure is nil, and by design all of the line air bubbles will eventually rise to the master area. One of the problems when doing this is the air will be trapped behind the banjo bolt, and the clutch will still feel like mush. Then frustration is right around the corner. Been there...done that. The only way I've found...as most of you know by now... is reverse bleeding the clutch from the salve. No over nights, no waiting, just bleed it and go. One of these days I'm going to have to do a write up with pics....

[Squeeze]

The pressure created by the lever being pulled in is very low Squeeze. You probably could have accomplised the same thing by just leaving it sit overnight. Under pressure soluble air will remain soluble, and only seperate when presure is nil, and by design all of the line air bubbles will eventually rise to the master area. One of the problems when doing this is the air will be trapped behind the banjo bolt, and the clutch will still feel like mush. Then frustration is right around the corner. Been there...done that. The only way I've found...as most of you know by now... is reverse bleeding the clutch from the salve. No over nights, no waiting, just bleed it and go. One of these days I'm going to have to do a write up with pics....

 

I didn't know your second Name was Thomas ... :D :D

 

 

Jack, i said it above, i've used EVERY Tool and Trick i know. Reverse bleeding with a big 200cc Syringe was one of them. I dismounted the M/C and temporary mounted it on spare Handlebar which i strategically placed in a Way that the Line wouldn't take a Bow above the bottom of the Reservoir. Didn't help either. I agree on the Banjo Bolt is Part of the Problem, but even a low Pressure in the Line gives the Air kinetic Force to move upwards.

[Dragonslayer]

The only way I've found...as most of you know by now... is reverse bleeding the clutch from the salve. No over nights, no waiting, just bleed it and go. One of these days I'm going to have to do a write up with pics....

Yea you ought to, Condor. Or better yet since i'm about to do this on project bike when new slave shows up maybe I'll use your method, take pics and post. However, I'm still wrestling with getting the c clip out of the master to rebuild the master.:bang head:

[Condor]

I didn't know your second Name was Thomas ... :D :D

 

 

Jack, i said it above, i've used EVERY Tool and Trick i know. Reverse bleeding with a big 200cc Syringe was one of them. I dismounted the M/C and temporary mounted it on spare Handlebar which i strategically placed in a Way that the Line wouldn't take a Bow above the bottom of the Reservoir. Didn't help either. I agree on the Banjo Bolt is Part of the Problem, but even a low Pressure in the Line gives the Air kinetic Force to move upwards.

 

Your failure to get the air out of the lines..kenitic or soluble.. might have been your method of forcing the fluid in at the slave Squeeze. I personally use one of those rubber ear bulbs available at your local drug store. It's the KISS formula. I've never had a reverse bleed fail yet. I think the secret is being able to get a good seal on the threads of slave unit after removing the bleeder valve. When I force the fluid in at the slave I can actually hear the bubbles coming out at the reserve.... But what ever method you use, it's what works for you. Go for it...

[Condor]

Yea you ought to, Condor. Or better yet since i'm about to do this on project bike when new slave shows up maybe I'll use your method, take pics and post. However, I'm still wrestling with getting the c clip out of the master to rebuild the master.:bang head:

 

That's a whole 'nother problem. What I finally ended up doing was to buy a very small pair of needle nosed pliers from Harbor Freight and notch the tips to get the ring out of there. Here's a fews pics that might help.. #1 shows the ring, #2 shows pushing in the piston to get it out of the way, #3 shows sticking a small pick through the reserve hole to retain the piston, and #4 shows the pliers. The notch doesn't have to be very deep...just enough to keep the ring from going balistic....

[Dragonslayer]

That's a whole 'nother problem. What I finally ended up doing was to buy a very small pair of needle nosed pliers from Harbor Freight and notch the tips to get the ring out of there. Here's a fews pics that might help.. #1 shows the ring, #2 shows pushing in the piston to get it out of the way, #3 shows sticking a small pick through the reserve hole to retain the piston, and #4 shows the pliers. The notch doesn't have to be very deep...just enough to keep the ring from going balistic....

Once again saved by the experience of the experts. Had not thought of suppressing and retaining the plunger. I'll give it a try. I found a pair of lock ring pliers at sears that comes with interchageble tips. But, none of the tip sets are long enough so I was planning to make a longer set out of two matching allen wrenches and filling points on the end. But, you said you notched your pliers, can you post a pic showing the shape of the notch on the plier tips?

[Condor]

can you post a pic showing the shape of the notch on the plier tips?

 

Sure 'nuff. Here ya go.

[Dragonslayer]

Sure 'nuff. Here ya go.

thanks Condor, big help

[Dragonslayer]

Just occurred to me that this thread hasn't heard from original poster in a while. whozleft asked a simple question that was answered in the first reply. And the rest of us have been going on for days with our own articulate dissertations :rant:on the intricate details and nuances for the hydralic actuated clutch engagement system. While I find all the aforementioned disserations highly informative, helpful and entertaining:detective: I can't help but imagine what Whozleft must be thinking if he is even still monitoring the thread.

 

As a writer I know I'm as guilty as anyone :whistling:of going on and on and struggle with my wordyness ( :icon_smile_questionis that a word?) every time I write. My only defense is just that because I'm a writer I love to watch myself talk.

[CrazyHorse]

I would crack the banjo bolt slightly see if you get the air to pop out one of my Yamaha mechnic friends suggested I do.

[whozleft]

Guys,

 

I have been following all this info. I am checking with my buddy today to see if he got his clutch working. If not, I'll stop by and see what I can do to help him.

 

There's a ton of info here that may be of use to him if a simple bleeding of the system doesn't help.

 

This is why the board is so great. People willing to share the knowlege they have to help others.

 

Thanks so much.

[Dragonslayer]

Guys,

 

I have been following all this info. I am checking with my buddy today to see if he got his clutch working. If not, I'll stop by and see what I can do to help him.

 

There's a ton of info here that may be of use to him if a simple bleeding of the system doesn't help.

 

This is why the board is so great. People willing to share the knowlege they have to help others.

 

Thanks so much.

Yea, that too. Great information from very knowledgeable sources in these threads. But sometimes I can't help but wonder if I over post.

If I'm not riding I'm thinking about riding and to keep from talking too much I write to much.

[Dano]

Yea, that too. Great information from very knowledgeable sources in these threads. But sometimes I can't help but wonder if I over post.

If I'm not riding I'm thinking about riding and to keep from talking too much I write to much.

 

I'm not sure if you have totally espoused your hyper-active neuron impulses completely and thoroughly, as we all know, if thoughts become bottled up, we lose control of them and they just become random thoughts to be expressed to no one in particular, therefore reducing their importance to the subject manner at hand.

 

Dan

[Freebird]

Yea...I THINK what he said was that NO...you do not post too much. I agree.

[Dragonslayer]

I'm not sure if you have totally espoused your hyper-active neuron impulses completely and thoroughly, as we all know, if thoughts become bottled up, we lose control of them and they just become random thoughts to be expressed to no one in particular, therefore reducing their importance to the subject manner at hand.

 

Dan

Did I do that??????? my bad???????????

[CrazyHorse]

I would try cracking the banjo while you have the clutch pulled in. Make sure you have a rag to wipe off what comes out. Youll get a puff of air and then fluid. Tighten down banjo and relieve pressure on clutch. See if this helps.

[Dano]

Yea...I THINK what he said was that NO...you do not post too much. I agree.