Need Clutch Install Advise

[RidingArk]

After studying the posts on this site, I decided I would install a Bartlett clutch in my '86 Venture. Everything came out just fine, but, I think there may be a problem. Is the clutch boss supposed to have any play in it? I can get a slight wobble out of it. I hadn't planned on taking it off, but will for sure if this "play" is abnormal. I would very much appreciate some advice here.

[Condor]

After studying the posts on this site, I decided I would install a Bartlett clutch in my '86 Venture. Everything came out just fine, but, I think there may be a problem. Is the clutch boss supposed to have any play in it? I can get a slight wobble out of it. I hadn't planned on taking it off, but will for sure if this "play" is abnormal. I would very much appreciate some advice here.

 

Are you talking about side to side wobble, or rotational movement???

[Dano]

Probably checking it again.

[Squeeze]

If you can turn the Clutch Boss from left to right(clockwise or counterclockwise), this would be normal. But if you can move it on the Axle, towards and away from the Cutch Boss Nut, that would be a Problem.

[RidingArk]

I can move the clutch boss, although very slightly, away from and towards the clutch boss nut. The circlip doesent move, other than rotational of course, but the clutch boss can be made to "wobble" is the best way I can describe it. Thanks very much for your replies.

[RidingArk]

After reading some more posts on the site, I see that what I am calling the clutch boss has been called a clutch basket by others. I'm confused concerning the correct terminology for what I'm talking about, so I'll try to ask my question again. Should the "clutch basket" have some play in it? I really appreciate any info. I can get.

[Tartan Terror]

I believe it should. Muffinman will be along shortly to tell you the answer.

[Squeeze]

The Clutch Basket is the outer Part of the Assembly. It's outside has Fingers to which the the outer Edges of the Friction Plates engage to.

 

The inner Part, called Clutch Boss, is the Part to which the Steel Plates engage.

 

There should be no axial Movement of the Clutch Boss and only very little Movement on the Clutch Basket.

 

I think if the Movement you see is not more than 1/20 of an Inch, you should be fine.

[RidingArk]

Thanks very much for your input. Squeeze, I think it has more play than what you suggested would be OK. I'm going to go ahead and pull the boss and basket tonight. I would assume that the basket rides on a bearing, so I guess I better check it out. I really, really wanted to just replace the friction plates and move on, but.......

[Gearhead]

Just wondering, are you perhaps courting trouble? Was it working OK? Making weird noises? Why are you replacing the clutch - because of clutch slipping? How many miles on the bike? If it was working normally except for slipping, you might just be OK. The basket freewheels on the shaft with its own bushings, so it will have a little endplay and wobble.

 

Removing the clutch boss and basket to inspect are fine, but be careful. I've busted a clutch boss before; pried against the wrong thing trying to loosen the nut. I had to make a special tool that engages the holes at the back of the boss to hold it from turning.

 

Jeremy

[Condor]

[Squeeze]

I third Gearhead's Statement. The Clutch Basket runs on a plastic Bushing. Unless you didn't notice anything acting weird or making a Noise, you'll be fine by only preplacing the Friction and under rare Circumstances the Steel Plates.

 

You'll need as special Tools to hold the Clutch Boss for opening the Nut. This Nut is tightend down with 130 Nm Torque, it has to be a tough Tools or you'll break something.

[RidingArk]

Well, I didn't have any problem at all getting the clutch boss and housing off. Actually, especially after reading posts, it kinda scare me how easy it came off. I used a 30mm socket and air impact. After inspecting the clutch basket (thanks guys for telling me what the hell to call this thing), I noticed what are definately brass bushings, 2 of them, one fore and one aft inside the clutch basket shaft hole. Didn't look extremely worn to me, but has to be the only thing to let the basket "wobble" a little. To answer above questions, I started to get a slight slip on the clutch and did have some very very slight knocking noise that seemed to be reduced when I activated the clutch. I know the history of this bike. It has 84K and towed a trailer extensively. The cluth is original. It's amazing that the friction disks aren't worn to metal. They all appear uniform in wear but the friction pads look pretty thin. In hindsight though, and I'll readily admit I'm a newbie here, I think the slip was from overfilling the clutch resevoir. I rebuilt the slave and clutch master and replaced the hoses prior to the slip being developed. I topped the fluid off to where there was no room left. Should have read the posts better. So, do you guys think I just ought to roll with the basket as is, or replace the bushings?

[Condor]

Go with what you have.. They all will quite down a bit when the clutch lever is pulled in.

[Squeeze]

The knocking sound at unpressed Lever is the bearing inside the pressure Plate.

 

It's a standard 6003 Ball Bearing, but Yammi seems to have some extra heat Resistance build in. They Cost may be tripple the Price of a good Quality standard Bearing.

 

Other than this, it seems to me, i wouldn't change the Bushing. New Plates and a new Bearing, bolt down everything and be a happy Camper.

[Gearhead]

Yup, clutch baskets make a little noise. As they wear, the friction disk fingers wear little grooves in the basket fingers (which can affect clutch operation though I've never had it be a problem) which allows more slop for the discs and causes more noise from the basket. When I bought mine the clutch basket made quite a bit of noise; I thought at the time that I might have to replace it just based on the noise. But my carbs turned out to be way out of sync and the uneven idle was exacerbating the noise greatly! It was MUCH quieter after the sync. Kinda makes sense, but I'd never have guessed it!

 

I find it interesting that your friction discs are appreciably worn. Did you compare them to spec? Reason I ask is this: on my VR and also my Virago, I had to replace the clutch at 50-60K miles due to slipping. In both cases the friction discs looked perfect, measured like new, and had no visible damage. However, replacing them cured the slip. I didn't increase spring pressure, didn't replace anything but the friction discs in both cases. Go figure.

 

Jeremy

 

Jeremy

[RidingArk]

Well Jeremy, after seeing the new friction plates, I guess they weren't worn as thin as I thought. Amazing with all those miles and being the original clutch. All I have left to do is torque the boss nut and install. WHY can't I just put it in gear and torque the nut? 50 pounds doesn't seem alot to me.

[Squeeze]

Well Jeremy, after seeing the new friction plates, I guess they weren't worn as thin as I thought. Amazing with all those miles and being the original clutch. All I have left to do is torque the boss nut and install. WHY can't I just put it in gear and torque the nut? 50 pounds doesn't seem alot to me.

 

Because you're working in the Connection between Clutch Boss and Crankshaft. And, don't forget to place the Washer between Clutch Basket and Clutch Boss.

[RidingArk]

Thanks again Squeeze. Wouldn't have begun to tackle this without the help available on this site. I have one more question and I'll quit hogging up the advise. I'm good on installing the clutch disks, but I'm not sure where the two metal circular things go. I think the immediately follow the friction plate and disk which are held in place with the wire? I can't remember if the flat one goes in first followed by the concave one. And, I can't remember which direction the concave one goes in. The manual was no help to me. Any more advise left for me?

[Squeeze]

First Thing which goes into the Basket is the half Sized Friction Plate, next Thing is the flat Ring, then the concave Ring. That's how you stated it. The concave Ring goes in with the elevated inner Contact Patch against the the following Steel Plate. Then the Wire, then a standard Friction Plate and on. Watch out for the Notches and Marking on the Clutch Boss.

[RidingArk]

Thank you very much.

[Gearhead]

Squeeze, are you saying the concave ring, when installed, is concave or convex, as viewed from the RH side of the engine?

 

As far as torquing the nut and holding the shaft from turning with the transmission, I think the problem is that all that torque is placed on a single point of contact between gear teeth. Under operation, the gears are always turning and the contact point is changing.

 

Jeremy

[Squeeze]

It's hard to explain.

 

From my Point of View, the outer(seen as the flat Part) part has to against the flat Ring, the inner, seen as the elevated Part of the concave or convex Ring has to against the Steel Plate. But then, i think i wouldn't damage anything when you mount it the 'wrong' Way. The Steel Plate is held by the Wire, there is always a little bit of Pressure on the Plates outside of the Wire.

 

What this Ring does is making up a little Spring which forces the half Disc to engage first when the Clutch Lever is going to be depressed. This Setup prevents the Clutch from picking.

 

The Vmax Guys replace this half Disc and the two Rings with a full Size Disc and leave the Wire out to soup up the Clutch a bit. But this can cause the Clutch picking when it is partially engaged. I have this also, but it doesn't bug me at all. I can feel it 2 out 50 Times when taking off.

[Gearhead]

Squeeze, what's "picking"? Is it like jerking, or grabbing, or chattering?

 

Jeremy

[Squeeze]

Squeeze, what's "picking"? Is it like jerking, or grabbing, or chattering?

 

Jeremy

 

Sorry, i did not found the correct English Term in my Brain, so i put through a Translator which obviously brought it up wrong.

 

I guess chattering would describe it good.

 

If you let the Lever out to a specific Point where the Clutch isn't biting enough to move the Bike, you can feel kind of a Vibration in the Lever first. If you let the Lever out for another minimal Amount, you feel the Bike not move but the Clutch grabs a little bit. Once you let the Lever out over this Point, you can work with the Clutch as it works on a standard Clutch. It's hard to explain, Kind of a rattling Feeling just before the Clutch bites.

 

I feel it more on my Bike than on other Bikes with standard axial Mastercylinders, because i have radial ISR M/C's on my Max. It's a bit strange in first Place, but when you get used to it, the Clutch performs much better than in stock Setup.