Loud Pipes Save Lives

[skidrow]

got rks on my venture now. used to have some kind of open megaphones on it....nearly deaf now. but the only time I really enjoyed those loud pipes was at a stop light next to some punk kid who bass vibrated everything within a 400 yard radius. then a few 3000 rpm blast's right in his ear was pure joy and satisfaction.

[Snarley Bill]

The bottom line to this thread is slightly louder pipes are heard or can't you read! It worked for me yet you think it is stupid for even saying it out loud. See if you can hear this, IT WORKS FOR ME and keep your stupid comments to yourself. I could still hear the tires of cars around me but some goof stretches it to the point that we don't even hear sirens!

 

Maybe some of you should have paid attention better and not hijack a thread complaining about extreme instances. If you think that there is no way exhaust sound level make any difference in another driver knowing you are there no matter what just stick your fingers in your ears and repeat after me "la la la la la la I can't hear you".

i must have missed something here, could you run that by me in english? i'm a little on the stupid side. snarley bill

[Guest kozman01]

All I have to say on the issue is to each his own with ONE exception. The guy driving through my neighborhood at 5:30 am with some god awful pipes, or lack there of, better hope for plenty of "life-saving" ability from those stupid pipes if I or anyone else in my neighborhood gets ahold of him. That guy is enemy number one where I live and since the police don't seem to care about it, some of the more "motivated" individuals in the area want to take "corrective measures" into their own hands. I don't advocate revenge anywhere but I certainly understand why these people want to do it, he wakes up every living creature from sleeping babies that have been up all night to my German Shepherd who would eat that guy alive if he was given the chance, hmmm:). Anyways, it's idiots like that that do it in for the rest of us. I have some who wonder if "I know him" because I ride a bike.(Stock 07 VEnture) I nicely tell them no but then we all get painted with the big brush. As an earlier law enforcement officer mentioned earlier, I can wail my a*s off with all the sirens I have in the patrol car and it has virtually no effect on 80 percent of the traffic in front of me. I don't think the loud pipes do much for safety, but if your town allows them on the bikes, then I guess your free to irritate the majority of the population. Just my worthless two cents.

[Tom]

OK,My opinion,I was gonna stay quiet on this. First of all each person has their on idea of what thy want their bike to sound like.If you dont want to ride with them that is your choice. No two people are the same.That being said,I drive a truck for a living and believe me its loud at times. If a motorcycle is near me with loud pipes I DEFINITELY hear him,most of the time I know what kind of bike it is by the sound,but most importantly I am aware SOMETHING is close by and my alert meter is hightened to maximum observation. While some States may have laws prohibiting loud pipes,let that rider make the choice of what he is willing to face as far as the laws are.People in cars have their opinions of bikes most of the time anyway,loud pipes or not.I have met numerous people that were scared to death because I had full leathers on..do we ban full leathers? After chatting with them simply by chance they get interested in WHY we dress that way. When I say Because its cold and the leather cuts the cold wind... its like a light comes on in their head. That being said Let grown ups be who they are,personalize it the way YOU want it and if your friends dont like it maybe they need to remeber what my Grandpa told me along time ago.." Son,If you mind your own business some day you may have your own business to mind!" Now I dont care if someone redicules my post,we are all grown people and have opinions..PERSONALLY I hope I never get to the point where I cant still be a kid at times. Be Safe Alll,Tom

[Bummer]

Tampering with your exhaust is illegal throughout the US due to EPA regulations. While nobody appears to be enforcing it right now, the offence carries a $10,000 fine.

[Ferrantelli]

Guys loud pipes are not the answer to everything. But as we riders know we face many safety problems when we share the road. If the pipes add a bit of safety then I must agree that they do help some what. We can not deny that additional safety to anyone. I have original HD touring muffler on my RSV. There is not a big difference from stock Yamaha pipes, but I am not willing to drill them out for the additional safety, but that is my choice. As I stated on an earlier post, I start my bike and ride away quickly, I do not stand there and blip my throttle for no reasons. As TOM said " If a motorcycle is near me with loud pipes I DEFINITELY hear him,most of the time I know what kind of bike it is by the sound,but most importantly I am aware SOMETHING is close by and my alert meter is heightened to maximum observation. " It may not work on every driver but it works on some. Is it worth it? That is an individual choice! All of the above applies only to Motorcyclists like everyone here and not the RIDER WANT TO BE, LOOK AT ME AND MY BIKE AREN'T WE COOL TYPE.

[SilvrT]

In this day and age, loud pipes are not necessarilly associated to Harleys (as a few posts here seem to suggest or make that connection). In the last 2 weeks I have seen more "non Harleys" with some of the loudest pipes I've heard. Yamaha Royal Star's, Victory, Suzuki, Kaw and ever the odd Honda VTX. (just felt the need to clarify that)

 

There's loud pipes ... and then there's LOUD pipes. I have a problem with those LOUD pipes and moreover, the riders who have them coz it generally is them that get their JOLLIES by rapping and blipping and making as much noise as they possibly can. Those 2 things together are nothing more than a nuisance IMHO.

 

Having said that, how many of you here wear ear plugs? I've never worn them but I have noticed many riders of bikes with LOUD pipes do. Their reasoning is to protect the eardrums from the wind.... Well, I may not hear as good as I once did but I honestly doubt it's because of wind damage to my eardrums.

 

ok, said my piece...

[dans87vr]

Loud pipes may get someones attention, but I believe its up to you to create your own safety zone. Been cut off just as many times in my cage as the bike, you can almost tell who will cut you off. The one thing louder pipes (just over stock) do help with are the critters big and small. In my younger days always had loud pipes on cars and never even came close to any deer. As I got older all cars had stock quiet exhaust (except the hotrod) and have hit one deer and clipped a couple.

 

That being said I know to watch for deer and people more with the stock quiet exhaust creating the safety zone acording to where I am at and dont rely on loud exhaust.

 

why create something so loud you cant hear yourself think, (must be the ones who dont think)............

 

dan

[hig4s]

Tampering with your exhaust is illegal throughout the US due to EPA regulations. While nobody appears to be enforcing it right now, the offence carries a $10,000 fine.

 

 

Yep, federal law!!! .. It also states that any exhaust that does not have EPA certification stamp is illegal. And at this time not one after market company takes the time or money to get their pipes certified. So even if you had after market pipes quieter than stock you could be fined $10,000..

[Bummer]

From what I've read the stamping on the muffler(s) must match a sticker on the frame.

[AZSpyder]

Yep, federal law!!! .. It also states that any exhaust that does not have EPA certification stamp is illegal. And at this time not one after market company takes the time or money to get their pipes certified. So even if you had after market pipes quieter than stock you could be fined $10,000..

 

This just doesn't sound right, or just part is posted. Do you have a full copy of the law?

 

The version I am aware of only covers 1983 and newer so the "any exhaust" part would be wrong. 2 of my 3 bikes aren't effected. I wonder if the first year Ventures have this certification. The way things are now I don't think anyone needs to worry about this unless they are importing a bike. This was one of a couple trouble spots when I had the idea to look into importing a shipping container full of Posties from Australia. Also the version I read doesn't give the EPA any teeth and leaves the regulation to each state. Arizona's noise level is what is "prudent" that just means if you piss off a cop you could be looking for the stock exhaust. I know someone in Colorado that had a cop test his exhaust with a night stick. It didn't hit any baffles and he went looking for a new muffler.

 

As far as having exhaust loud enough to have to wear ear plugs mentioned in an early post (I know a few with the Star Touring bunch), I just can't understand that mod.

 

Jerry

Edited June 18, 2008 by AZSpyder

[bikerkwatt]

I have aloud pipe story for you. Some buddies and I were riding near Cloudcroft New Mexico.The fella in front was riding a ultra classic (loud pipes)I am second on a silvarado

(loud pipes).Next fella on a wing.We come up on a bicycle rider the first two pass no problem. Here comes the wing , bike rider decides to do a u-turn winds up on the windsheild of the wing as my buddy is laying down tring all he can do to avoid the collision.This all happened while slowing down for a stop sign so speed was not a factor.

The bike rider said he heard the first two bikes got quiet and thought it was clear and proceded to turn with out looking, and assumed all responsibility. No one was seriously hurt !So you can see why I am a fan of loud pipes.

[nelsonrl]

Not sure what the penalties are, or potentially could be but my pipes are not that loud. Just a nice rumble. That said, they are stamped "not legal for street use" on the pipes. This are after market slash cut Screamin' Eagle pipes. Like I said, not real loud, baffles still in them and the neighbors do not complain when I drive down the street, but not street legal since EPA testing was not done. More of the Motor company protecting themselves than anything else I think.

 

I did have a neighbor that had the baffles removed - everyone in the neighbor cheered when he moved. Loud pipes are annoying to many, accepted by few (not counting those who have loud pipes), personally I am not overly bothered by them - unless they wake me up from my afternoon nap. My feeling is if we do not police ourselves more and more cities will pass laws such as those in Denver and other places.

[Bummer]

This is the US Federal law regarding motorcycle noise. Note that as of 1982 83 dBA is the max. As of '06 it went down to 80. If you keep browsing that series of pages you'll find the info about marking and tampering. It also mentions that if your exhaust becomes louder with age you can be held in volation if you don't put a new one on.

 

US Federal laws against tampering with emission control systems were passed in 1977, effective in 1979 or 1980.

 

Sorry, can't find anything about the fine in the federal documents, but the MRF sure knows about it. (Warning: PDF.)

 

Quoting:

There is a section in the Clean Air Act of 1979 concerning “tampering ,” which makes it illegal to modify or remove any component designed to reduce or control exhaust emissions, including intake or exhaust noise. Removing the catalytic converter on a car, or a new motorcycle constitutes tampering. So does replacing an engine component with anything other than stock or direct replacement components. Violating this anti-tampering law opens you up to a fine of up to $10,000 per occurrence. An occurrence is logged each and every day the modified vehicle is operated on public streets.

 

Guys (& gals?), I'm not trying to rain on your ride. I'm slowly working to bring my '06's performance up to that I remember from my '85. I've tampered. I will tamper again. All I'm saying is if you're going to violate the law you should at least know what laws you're violating and what sort of an inconvenience it could be if you get caught.

[kantornado]

Here is my take on loud pipes.

The vast majority of my bikes where quiet. I personally like quiet myself. But for safety reasons I have loud pipes and as you will read in the article so do the OPD................Ron

 

 

 

 

 

Oakland Police Department Wants Louder Pipes On Its Harleys

Published by Cyril Huze June 12th, 2008 in Editorial.

 

 

Over in Oakland they like it loud - so loud that all 45 of the Police Department's Harley-Davidson motorcycles have been equipped with shiny new tailpipes, at a cost of $500 apiece, to rev up their roar. It seems the cops just didn't feel safe on toned-down bikes. "There's an old motorcycle adage that you are heard before you are seen," said Deputy Chief Dave Kozicki, explaining the department's decision to toss the bikes' muted factory-issued mufflers in favor of the more high-volume pipes. Kozicki cited an accident three months ago in which an Oakland officer riding a toned-down cycle was struck by a motorist who said he hadn't heard the officer approaching. But some City Hall insiders, as well as motorcycle cops elsewhere, said the safety argument is a stretch. Even the folks at the national Motorcycle Industry Council, which represents all the big bike

manufacturers, were unaware of any safety benefits from louder mufflers.” We encourage all motorcycle riders to keep the original low sound levels that meet the … federal sound limit of 80 decibels," said industry spokesman Mike Mount. "It would seem counterintuitive that a law enforcement agency would go against federal standards.” Ironically, it was just a short time back that Oakland police were called upon to crack down on noisy motorists who had modified their auto mufflers to make a whistling screech. The "whistle tip" pipes

were eventually outlawed under state law. Oakland's cops had a long tradition of riding their Harley-Davidsons with the modified, louder tail pipes, earning them the nickname "Rolling Thunder." But after an officer complained about a loss of hearing and others around town questioned whether the police force was violating the very noise standards it was supposed to enforce, the department brass ordered a switch to the quieter stock mufflers. According to Kozicki, the decibel drop sparked a chorus of complaints from other officers, who said they felt less safe. So last year the department launched a $1,200 study in conjunction with the city's risk management division to determine whether A) the louder motorcycles contributed to officers' safety, B) were detrimental to their hearing, and C) complied with noise standards. Kozicki acknowledged that whatever safety-related findings the study produced were largely anecdotal. Still, after everything was taken into

consideration, the department concluded, "it was in the best interest of the officers to put more-audible pipes back on," Kozicki said. Hence, all 30 of the department's Harleys were sent down to the central maintenance yard for a muffler makeover, at a cost of about $15,000, according to City Hall insiders. Another 15 newly purchased motorcycles were ordered with the louder pipes, though at no extra charge. Oakland official acknowledge that the noisy pipes, when tested, averaged 93 decibels - well above the federal legal noise

limit, according to the Motorcycle Industry Council.

Edited June 19, 2008 by kantornado

[nelsonrl]

Interesting report on the local news tonight - seems that people are questioning if the new hybrid gas/electric cars are safe. The point they were bringing up was that when the cars were in electric mode they were to quite and people couldn't hear them!

[hig4s]

This just doesn't sound right, or just part is posted. Do you have a full copy of the law?

 

The version I am aware of only covers 1983 and newer so the "any exhaust" part would be wrong. 2 of my 3 bikes aren't effected. I wonder if the first year Ventures have this certification. The way things are now I don't think anyone needs to worry about this unless they are importing a bike. This was one of a couple trouble spots when I had the idea to look into importing a shipping container full of Posties from Australia. Also the version I read doesn't give the EPA any teeth and leaves the regulation to each state. Arizona's noise level is what is "prudent" that just means if you piss off a cop you could be looking for the stock exhaust. I know someone in Colorado that had a cop test his exhaust with a night stick. It didn't hit any baffles and he went looking for a new muffler.

 

As far as having exhaust loud enough to have to wear ear plugs mentioned in an early post (I know a few with the Star Touring bunch), I just can't understand that mod.

 

Jerry

 

 

OK, any is not technically correct,, it would any non stock exhaust on any motorcycle 1980 model year or newer. (that is when the federal EPA rules took effect)

[hig4s]

Interesting report on the local news tonight - seems that people are questioning if the new hybrid gas/electric cars are safe. The point they were bringing up was that when the cars were in electric mode they were to quite and people couldn't hear them!

 

 

For the most part I just think this shows how inattentive and big brother reliant the average American is. People constantly complain that government is too controlling but then want the government to ban cars that are too quiet because they don't want to have to "look both ways before crossing the street"

Wait, where have I heard that before? Oh, from my parents about a million times from the time I was 4 until I was 12.

 

The only somewhat valid argument for cars being too quiet is coming from the NY city association for the blind, saying the blind in the city cannot hear them over the other cars while crossing streets.

[Guest Swifty]

for those needing some translation...it is QUITE appropriate to have QUIET pipes.

[az1103]

So much attention and animosity in this subject...... enough already folks !!!!! Those who like their loud pipes will never allow themselves to be convinced that they are making a neusance of themselves and trampling other people's rights to live undisturbed. I guess most of them also don't think twice about tossing their smelly ciggar or cigarette butts in the street or dry brush or their kid's, or grandkid's dirty pampers through the window on our highways and in national parks.....

These people will always claim it's part of living in a free country......Sooo Sad....

[AZSpyder]

So much attention and animosity in this subject...... enough already folks !!!!! Those who like their loud pipes will never allow themselves to be convinced that they are making a neusance of themselves and trampling other people's rights to live undisturbed. I guess most of them also don't think twice about tossing their smelly ciggar or cigarette butts in the street or dry brush or their kid's, or grandkid's dirty pampers through the window on our highways and in national parks.....

These people will always claim it's part of living in a free country......Sooo Sad....

 

Some of the people here are something else. Starting to stabilize into an interesting discussion on regulations and this comes up. Start of saying enough on the animosity then say most riders with loud pipes also litter the country! Incredible!

If you don't have anything to say that involves at least a 2nd graders logic level please go start trouble some where else.

[Steve S]

I heard this rumor but have never checked to see if it is true or not. (The Warden said she would check it out for me:innocent:). The rumor stated that bikers with loud pipes were try to compensate for being lesser endowed. :stirthepot:

 

That being said, I can't stand to ride a bike with loud pipes:no-no-no:. It hurts my ears and gives me a pounding headache after just a few miles.

[AZSpyder]

I heard this rumor but have never checked to see if it is true or not. (The Warden said she would check it out for me:innocent:). The rumor stated that bikers with loud pipes were try to compensate for being lesser endowed. :stirthepot:

 

That is a false rumor, it seems to be the other way most, but not all of the time. Now I don't have what the average citizen would call loud pipes and it does work in my case. As far as bikes with the loud pipes some riders arn't easy to tell but most of the ones you can seem to be well endowed women.

[flb_78]

And at this time not one after market company takes the time or money to get their pipes certified.

 

Harley has 49 state "legal" aftermarket pipes now and Hard Krome offers "legal" aftermarket pipes for Metrics as well. They are called Vortaxx or Rec-Tec I believe.

 

http://www.harley-davidson.com/gma/gma_product.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524448768479&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374309244813&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374309244813&bmUID=1213876591942&bmLocale=en_US

[dynodon]

About the bicycle turning into the "quiet" Wing. Did the rider fail to look when quiet cars went by? This could be looked at as a problem created by the loud bikes because they changed the dynamics of the normal road situation from fairly quiet vehicles that the bicycle rider would be aware of to two abnormally loud motorcycles masking the one legal vehicle.

 

Loud pipes are an annoyance to residential areas, and can be heard for literally miles in rural settings. They can startle drivers of cars and other bikes, and do actual physical damage to hearing. In this instance, they caused the wreck with the bicycle by masking the following bike that was legal.

 

As someone that loves an internal combustion engine with a great sound, I appreciate some tone, but cars are not approved or appreciated with open exhaust and that is what most motorcycle loud pipes are, just straight open exhaust. My bike sounds great, and my cars have some nice tone without being annoying or dangerous.

 

Loud pipes are a nuisance.