Question on Higher Output Stator

[Freebird]

From the service manual.

 

A.C. Magneto Generator

F4T655/Mitsubuishi

14V 30 AMP at 5,000 RPM

[V7Goose]

One more point to add to the question of the purpose of heating the carbs: the heaters are not on until the bike is in gear. On a cold morning, when you pull out the choke and start the bike and let it warm up at idle with the choke on for a minute while you suit up in your gear, the carb heaters are NOT on.

OK, I'm only going to hedge my bets here just a little, but I think this statement is wrong. Frankly, even though I had looked at this circuit several times, I had completely missed the connection with the neutral switch, so the above statement intrigued me. I have just taken a quick look at the schematic again, and I am pretty sure that the carb heaters are ONLY on when the bike is in neutral! I'm going got examine it a bit more to be certain, but right now I am pretty sure I am right. If so, them my modification to add a cut-out switch would seem pretty unnecessary!

 

I am still not positive, however, since my own observations when riding in the winter and watching my gauges seemed to show a distinct voltage drop when I thought the carb heaters were on. Perhaps this was simply the power of suggestion? I'll post a confirming note one way or the other once I am certain.

Goose

[autopilot]

Heaters have got to be for emissions & fuel management.

 

Low temp idling in neutral (with the choke) (you're only on idle circuit) makes for a richer mixture. The heaters would help that situation. Off-idle, the situation is moot, because the engine & carbs are warmed up, the choke is off and idle time is only during stops. Idling while warming up would be the worst time for emissions and they don't have cat. converters, right? Anyway, that's where my thinking is taking me!

[ahoutzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahoutzer

One more point to add to the question of the purpose of heating the carbs: the heaters are not on until the bike is in gear. On a cold morning, when you pull out the choke and start the bike and let it warm up at idle with the choke on for a minute while you suit up in your gear, the carb heaters are NOT on.

OK, I'm only going to hedge my bets here just a little, but I think this statement is wrong.

 

It ain't wrong. Checking this is simple -- in the Winter. With the temps cool enough to trigger the carb heaters, and with a voltmeter in place, just do what I said: start the bike and watch the meter as it warms up in neutral. Then pull the clutch and drop it into gear, and watch the voltage drop as four 15-watt heaters kick in. Then turn the carb heaters off (I've put a push-button switch on mine, mounted through the passenger foot board backing plate) and watch the voltage come back up. Operate that carb heater switch with the bike in neutral and there will be no effect.

 

Now checking all of this in the Summer would require some further ingenuity, because the carb heaters won't come on anyway.

[MAINEAC]

OK, I'm only going to hedge my bets here just a little, but I think this statement is wrong. Frankly, even though I had looked at this circuit several times, I had completely missed the connection with the neutral switch, so the above statement intrigued me. I have just taken a quick look at the schematic again, and I am pretty sure that the carb heaters are ONLY on when the bike is in neutral! I'm going got examine it a bit more to be certain, but right now I am pretty sure I am right. If so, them my modification to add a cut-out switch would seem pretty unnecessary!

 

I am still not positive, however, since my own observations when riding in the winter and watching my gauges seemed to show a distinct voltage drop when I thought the carb heaters were on. Perhaps this was simply the power of suggestion? I'll post a confirming note one way or the other once I am certain.

Goose

 

Goose I'm thinking he's right, I get voltage drop as soon as I put her in gear, I've since disconnected the carb heaters.

[MAINEAC]

From the service manual.

 

A.C. Magneto Generator

F4T655/Mitsubuishi

14V 30 AMP at 5,000 RPM

 

Thanks Don... I was trying to verify the "high output" stator output... when I looked the other day it said 25% increase (on buckeye's site) and I looked today and it says 55A max output... maybe Rick changed it in response to this thread... or maybe I'm losing my mind... I'm guessing it's probably rated 45 - 50 Amps... 45 is a 50% increase not the 25 previously stated... that was my reason for concern.

[pegscraper]

I think the "25% increase" is on the stator for the 1st gen. The 2nd gen stator is rated for 55A. I had PMd a few people here a while back who have one and asked them how they were liking it. All said they liked it well enough. One guy said he had tested the current output of it and it was real close to 55A, I forget the exact number he mentioned. That much current will run anything you'd like to run on the bike. I'm wanting to get one of these myself.

[MAINEAC]

Hope you're right Peg cuz I gotta lotta crap to plug in...

[V7Goose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahoutzer

One more point to add to the question of the purpose of heating the carbs: the heaters are not on until the bike is in gear. On a cold morning, when you pull out the choke and start the bike and let it warm up at idle with the choke on for a minute while you suit up in your gear, the carb heaters are NOT on.

OK, I'm only going to hedge my bets here just a little, but I think this statement is wrong.

 

It ain't wrong. Checking this is simple -- in the Winter. With the temps cool enough to trigger the carb heaters, and with a voltmeter in place, just do what I said: start the bike and watch the meter as it warms up in neutral. Then pull the clutch and drop it into gear, and watch the voltage drop as four 15-watt heaters kick in. Then turn the carb heaters off (I've put a push-button switch on mine, mounted through the passenger foot board backing plate) and watch the voltage come back up. Operate that carb heater switch with the bike in neutral and there will be no effect.

 

Now checking all of this in the Summer would require some further ingenuity, because the carb heaters won't come on anyway.

OK, I finally went to the trouble to verify the operation of this circuit. Ahoutzer was absolutely correct that the carb heaters are only on when the bike is NOT in neutral. My confusion came from examining the schematic diagram, which shows the carb heater relay is activated by a ground through the Neutral switch. Since most relays are only closed when activated (called a "normally open" relay), that is why I suspected the carb heaters only came on in neutral. What the schematic does NOT show is that the carb heater relay is a "normally closed" relay, which means that when it is NOT activated, the contacts are closed and the carb heaters are on (provided the temperature is low enough for the thermal switch to kick on). So here is how the circuit works:

 

When you turn the key on with the bike in neutral, you will hear the carb heater relay, located behind the right side battery cover, click ON, which cuts power to the carb heaters. With the key still on but bike not running, if you push on the shifter to make the neutral light go off, you will hear the carb heater relay click off at the same time. Because this is a "normally closed" relay, when it clicks off because the bike is not in neutral, the contacts in the relay close providing power to the carb heaters.

 

Just thought I'd close the loop on this and share what I found,

Goose