another Metzeler tire lets go

[V7Goose]

Ha Mother, I had my Metzler, rear tire chuck off, on the turnpike last weekend, we rode it 120 more, pulling our trailer, the tread hole was about the size of a tennis ball.

I had 7,000 miles on it, and just replaced it with another Metzler.

Wow. Now there's a decision that really messes with my mind!

Goose

[Venturous Randy]

Has anyone used these tires on a first Gen , and what were the results.

 

 

Bill

 

Bill, there has been a lot of comments about the Avon Venoms on a 1st gen. Search 100mph wobble and other threads like that. Like I have said several times, I love and hate my Venoms. Speeds below 80mph for many of us are great, but getting over that has brought on the rearend wobble for many also. There does seem to be something unique on the 1st gen that brings this out on the Venoms that the 2nd gens don't seem to encounter.

I have put over 90,000 miles on my 83 with Dunlap Elite II's, Metzler ME880's and now Avons and at speeds below 75, I like the Avons the best. I am also getting better tire wear out of the Avons. But when it is time to replace them, I am not sure what I will do.

RandyA

[BradT]

Has anyone used these tires on a first Gen , and what were the results.

 

 

Bill

 

Bill same results on the first gen as second gens. I know of three first gens that had a problem.

 

Brad

[Dano]

I talked personally with my tire dealer tonite about the Metzlers. He has dealt with them since 1977(one of the top ten dealers worldwide). Out of all the failures he has seen, 3 were due to actual tire failure, the rest were due to underinflation. YOU MUST GO BY THE PRESSURE STATED ON THE SIDEWALL OF THE TIRE, NOT THE BOOK OR STICKER ON THE BIKE. He said that it can be no more or less than 10% of the psi stated (usually 50 psi for max load) no matter the load carried on the bike. This would be no less than 45 psi on the rear tire. Mothers friend stated that there was 42 psi in the tire. Not grossly underinflated, but probably enough to cause the tire to de-laminate in the plys.

The tires are "cooked" under pressure (all tires, not just the Metzelers) at 435d F. If the tire is underinflated with a load on it, temperatures could easily reach that high and the "glue" used to hold the plys together will start to activate again and allow the plys to separate. Then air will start to migrate into this area, hence the "bulge" and subsequent de-lamination of the tire.

I am not making any statements for or against here, but more of a "check your tires pressure rating on the sidewall and adjust accordingly" information type of thing. He has seen this happen with Dunlops, Pirellis and just about any brand of tire.

I'm sure that our resident tire guys will chime in on this subject, also.

 

Dan

[gibvel]

his rear tire pressure was 48 psi when removed from the bike.

 

my rear Metzeler let go last summer with only 2000 miles on it, exactly the same way my buddies let go. it was on my first gen.

 

if you value your life, dont run with these tires.

 

Mothers friend stated that there was 42 psi in the tire. Not grossly underinflated, but probably enough to cause the tire to de-laminate in the plys.

 

Dan, as you can see above Mother stated that the tire had 48 psi when it was removed from the bike, not 42.

[Dano]

Sorry ,my bad, must have had something else float thru the brain at that time. I was just relaying that which he had said about the inflation.

 

Dan

[mother]

Has anyone used these tires on a first Gen , and what were the results.

 

 

Bill

 

 

Hi Bill

 

i have an 86 and i now run Avon on the front and Dunlop on the rear. i have put a lot of miles on the rear Dunlop and i will be trying a Dunlop elite 3 probably in the next couple of months.

the bike handles awesome in the dry and in the wet, i have owned sport bikes and i sometimes get a nudge from the navigator to go a little easier in the corners. this combination seems to work well for me, and i am very happy with the way it rides and handles.

 

cheers, Scott

[Tatonka]

I had made a note to myself (I'm going to need a set next month) after reading a thread here that said, "stay away from Michelin Commanders (7000 mi)." I've also seen lots of posts to stay away from the Metzlers. Also to stay away from the stock Dunlops.

 

I have a 98 RSTC and my rear Dunlop is toast at 12,000 miles. I run WWW but am considering dropping the WWW to get a good set of tires for the Legacy Run and "Roots" trip I plan for this summer (about 18,000 miles). I was interested in the Venom X but they don't seem to have a 150 front tire (I'm happy with that size and don't want to go to the narrower 130) and I also read here that the rear 150 tire is wider than standard making it a bit difficult to get back on.

 

Is the only other possibilty to go to a Dunlop Elite II/III? Or did I miss something?

 

Thanks in advance guys. All I can say is, "You guys are awesome and knowledgeable" and that I enjoy being here.

 

Ride hard, ride safe, but ride with God.

[V7Goose]

I talked personally with my tire dealer tonite about the Metzlers. He has dealt with them since 1977(one of the top ten dealers worldwide). Out of all the failures he has seen, 3 were due to actual tire failure, the rest were due to underinflation. YOU MUST GO BY THE PRESSURE STATED ON THE SIDEWALL OF THE TIRE, NOT THE BOOK OR STICKER ON THE BIKE. He said that it can be no more or less than 10% of the psi stated (usually 50 psi for max load) no matter the load carried on the bike. This would be no less than 45 psi on the rear tire. Mothers friend stated that there was 42 psi in the tire. Not grossly underinflated, but probably enough to cause the tire to de-laminate in the plys.

The tires are "cooked" under pressure (all tires, not just the Metzelers) at 435d F. If the tire is underinflated with a load on it, temperatures could easily reach that high and the "glue" used to hold the plys together will start to activate again and allow the plys to separate. Then air will start to migrate into this area, hence the "bulge" and subsequent de-lamination of the tire.

I am not making any statements for or against here, but more of a "check your tires pressure rating on the sidewall and adjust accordingly" information type of thing. He has seen this happen with Dunlops, Pirellis and just about any brand of tire.

I'm sure that our resident tire guys will chime in on this subject, also.

 

Dan

This sounds like hokum to me! I do not have any doubt that he said it or even that he believes it, but I think it is garbage!!! Just think about it - even if we ignore the facts listed below, he is telling you that ONLY Metzeler tires are such crap that they destroy themselves if run at the manufacturer's recommended pressure (even tho he tries to mislead you by saying he has seen it on other brands, Metzeler is the ONLY one with the massive number of reports of these failures)! If this is the type of crud he is offloading on you, I wouldn't ever deal with him again. Just my opinion.

Goose

 

BUT, the following is NOT just my opinion --> Here is information straight from the Metzeler site: http://www.us.metzelermoto.com/web/products/tire_pressures/default.page

 

"Tire Pressure

 

Always inflate tires to the correct pressure as indicated in the owner's manual. However Metzeler North America has found the air pressure suggestions listed below will improve mileage and customer satisfaction especially if a emphasis is placed on running the air pressure towards the maximum as stated on the sidewall. Check cold tire pressures frequently. Correct tire pressure is crucial for safe handling. Over inflation may impair ride comfort and reduce the contact patch between the tire and driving surface of the tires. Insufficient air pressure will result in poor handling and cause a tendency for the motorcycle to "wander". In addition, improper and insufficient tire will cause accelerated tire wear, increased fuel consumption, less control and the possibilities for tire failure to due an overload/under inflated operating situation.

 

 

Recommended Minimum Tire Pressures (PSI)

 

Touring/Cruiser

Alphanumeric ME880

Solo 2 Up Light 2 Up Heavy

Front 36 40 40

Rear 38 40 40

 

ME880

Solo 2 Up Light 2 Up Heavy

Front 38-40 40-42 40-42

Rear 44-46 46-48 46-48 " (end quote)

 

Note - sorry I cannot get this table more readable - can't find a way to use tabs here. Go to the link above to see it better.

Edited June 11, 2008 by V7Goose
reformat for readability

[Tartan Terror]

I run the Avons and am VERY happy with them as are most of the Guys on the 2nd Gens. I experienced cupping and uneven wear with the Dunlop 404s but still not a terrible tire. That was the original tire on my bike. Freebird used the Mich Commanders and so did Squid. Both seemed happy with them. I know Squid prefers the Avons in comparision and Freebird is currently trying the Avons and he can give you a good comparison. As far as the Metzlers there have been alot of dangerous failures on them. Too many to be coinsidence so it may be a good Idea to strike them off the list to be safe. I also have heard good things on the Elite 3s. There are a few on here that have recently put them on the RSV and Im sure they will chime in.

 

My personal choice is the Avon in which I am Happy.

Edited June 11, 2008 by Tartan Terror

[Dano]

I guess that we all make our own determination, I will keep an eye on mine for now, I don't think we will ever find a tire that is gonna be best for all of us.

[Freebird]

I do not agree that anybody should stay away from the Michelin. I think they are a great tire. Squidley did crash after a rear tire blowout but it was determined that he ran over something that damage the tire. I am trying Avons this time so that I can compare the two but was very pleased with my last set of Michelin Commanders.

[VTirelli]

Just talked to a bunch of folks at Don's on Saturday about this. I am VERY interested in seeing what Don has to say about the Avons when he has a few miles on them. When I'm due to replace my Avons, I was actually going to consider the Michelins to see the difference. But I don't think I want to consider the Metzlers until they address this problem.

[1BigDog]

Ill just state this for the record: No tire should fall apart unless its under extremely harsh conditions which far exceed the recommended tire pressures. There are or should be allowances for such variables. To have a tire come apart with just a few pounds of air pressure differences is just bad workmanship/quality control. Furthermore, I think we should all save our de-laminated tires and bring them to the next big rally where Metzeler has a tent set up and put them on display. I had planned on doing that during last years Biketoberfest here in Daytona but I was not able to get down there due to surgery.

 

Vinny, the Metzelers were a great handling tire. Too bad they dont hold up. I put 14k on my first set of Avons and at least they didnt come apart.

[loehring]

I must just be lucky but I could be a poster boy for Metzler. I've been running ME880s for a couple years and the most recent are the Alphas. I'm on my 4th rear and second front. The rears have averaged 20k and the front made it to 50k before had to change it. The last rear had 18k before I changed and I had pulled 2 nails out of it during the 18k with the first at 3k. The tire never failed or delaminated. Performance has been outstanding throughout. I do check pressure twice a week or before a longer than normal ride. (I commute 100 miles / day) I keep the front at 38psi and the rear at 39psi. Both sidewalls give the max at 40psi. I have no explanation but I mentioned it to my tire guy the last time I bought a tire and he said that it may be old rubber. He didn't know but he did say that he had people bring tires in to him all the time they had bought themselves for mounting and the rubber was frequently what he would consider old. I call him about a week in advance when I change and he orders the tire for me. I know he will refuse delivery of anything he doesn't consider new rubber.

 

I'm no tire expert but that's the best explanation I've had for my appearent success with all the failures I keep hearing about. I certainly hope my luck holds because I love the tire.

[Tartan Terror]

Age of a tire is a tough thing but I really dont think in the metzler is the big issue. All depends on what you consider old. In all types of tires there is a certain amount of warehousing. At least in the car tire manufactuing they will build one run of a model of tire and when they have built the fill for the run they shut down the mold and resetup for the next size. They are not building all the tires of all sizes at all times. Maybe make a 100k of one size and then warehouse. Not uncommon to see tires 1 1/2 old in certain sizes. Warehouse conditions are carefully monitered though. Not saying age cant be a factor because it can and if it goes to a store that maybe isnt so monitered and sits there you definitely can get issues but I cant see how if they all do this we see so much issue with one brand over another.

 

Just adding to this you can tell when the tire is built by looking at the last 4 numbers of the serial number. Lets say the last 4 numbers are 2806. That means it was built in the 28th week of 2006.

Edited June 11, 2008 by Tartan Terror

[Brake Pad]

Seem to me that for what they charge for these tires them Metzeler folks need to get slapped with a lawsuit or two to wake em up a bit! There is NO excuse to be putting out a shoddy product on something as critical as a MC tire.

 

And we wonder why guys are going over to the dark side?

 

 

I sent an e-mail yesterday, explaining about this site, and the people that use that tire.

I requested them to come look for themselfs.

I informed them this was the largest Venture site in the county. (I did lie)and that they should come look for them selves

[Brake Pad]

Wow. Now there's a decision that really messes with my mind!

Goose

 

not by choice, thats all the dealer had, and I rode the bike there. I'm changing the tires again, before I leave on ou big trip in August. going to avon's

[Freebird]

I sent an e-mail yesterday, explaining about this site, and the people that use that tire.

I requested them to come look for themselfs.

I informed them this was the largest Venture site in the county. (I did lie)and that they should come look for them selves

 

What did you lie about? I don't know of a larger Venture site. This one has more members and far more activity than any others that I know of. Don't mean to sound like I'm bragging, but it's just a fact as far as I can tell.

[utadventure]

If not the biggest site - THE BEST!!!

[tomfromhull]

I guess I'll stay with my Dunlops. Any bad reviews about them?

[Tartan Terror]

I guess I'll stay with my Dunlops. Any bad reviews about them?

Which ones. 404s not known for blowouts but I experienced strange cuppping and some felt the wear was quick. Some others like them quite a bit. Elite 3s seem to be doing good now that the sizing for the RSV is available.

[BradT]

I guess I'll stay with my Dunlops. Any bad reviews about them?

 

Got 12,500 miles on my last rear tire 404's. Still had a little over 1/16" of tread but changed it out to be safe.

 

No cupping or howling wore quite nicely.

 

BRad

[roadwarrior]

Even if ones tire pressure is not fully inflated the tire should not seperate if that is their excuse.This sounds like a dangerous tire for a motorcycle.Thanks for the heads up.

[Tatonka]

I'm not trying to start a war or get down on people about their riding style. I don't know how poople ride or how they take care of their tires or load their bikes.

 

I read some of the other threads on tires and I see that a lot of people ride 2-up, pull a trailer and have loaded saddle bags and trunk. Some folks are carrying more than 500 lbs human weight and it makes me wonder if we are all staying within the bike total weight and tire total load limits of the various tires we are running. Are the people having problems with tires really watching load limits and staying within Yamaha recommended riding styles?

 

I weigh about 320 naked (not a nice thought I know, but I played football until I was 40 and I still work out). By the time I have boots, jacket, helmet, knife, change and wallet on, I'm probably hitting 345 at least. Then there is the whole bunch of additional chrome, acessories, etc. My max load in the owner's manual says 448 lbs for a total bike weight of 1176 pounds. The tires show a max load also and I don't have the feeling that I can possibly be within that limit when I pack for a long trip (I won't ride 2-up because of my weight).

 

I would like to get a set of new tires (Dunlop has 12,000 and the wear marks say no more) and I want to run the same make of tires.

I like hearing about the higher load limit on the Avons. Freebird also swears by the Michelin Commanders. Elite II/III also sounded interesting although I'm thought somebody said there was a road noise problem with them. I'll be happy just havng three makes to chose from. Dunlops, Bridgestones and Metzlers are out for right now. Help please!?