Question: 2nd Gen Rear End Problems

[GeorgeS]

OK here's my Question, I do not have a 2nd Gen, I have an 89.

 

So, I have been reading postings concerning 2nd Gen Rear End problems for over 2 years now.

 

And No Such problems seem to be showing up on the 1st Gen's, ( other then the slight clicking sounds, eaisly fixed with some greese )

 

I have looked at the IPC, and looked at both old and new ventures at the rear ends. They both seem to be the same.

 

So, Why all the problems with the 2nd gen rear ends ?????

I don't get it.

 

--- So obviuous Question would, be, Can a 1st Gen Rear End be Installed on a 2nd Gen bike, ?????

Would this fix the problem ???

 

Or should I keep quiet and go down and clean my garage ?? ( its Raining, nothing else to do, my 89 is running like a Swiss Watch !! )

[Squeeze]

George, other than two Holes and the Thread in one Hole for the Speedo Pickup Secure Bolt, the final Drives are completly the same.

 

Since they ARE the same, there's the Tranny which makes the Difference. The 2Gen Tranny is way overdriven in 5th Gear. So there might be the Problem. These V4 Motors produce enough Torque even when your lugging the Engine. You won't even notice it, because the Rider would find that normal. The 2Gen doesn't even have a Tach. That would be helpful imho. Seeing the Rider operating only at 2.5 k to 4.5 would encourage them for picking up RpM.

[wizard]

I had not heard about any 2nd gen rear end trouble, except for no greese. What is the problem with them?

[GeorgeS]

Ok, Here are P/n 2006 model, 4x7-46101-00-00

----------------1989 model, 1NL-46101-00-00

The P/n for the Entire Pumpkin Unit. -------------

 

So, if I understand you correctly, 2nd Gen riders are useing 5th Gear, when they should still be in 4th gear. ?? Hmmmm ???

 

Ok, the way I have been shifting my 89 ( for 67,000 miles ) is I usually don't shift into 5th untill I'm up to Highway cruzing speed.

Most in town driveing I stay in 4th gear. This as a general rule of thumb.

 

4th gear = ratio 1.068, 5th gear 0.906 ( overdrive ) for my 89.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gear Ratio's for Succeding Model Years ---

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

83 -85 1st--2.608 -- 2nd 1.770-- 3rd 1.350 --4th 1.070 -- 5th 0.910 (OD )---Wgt. 716 lb.

 

86 to 93 1st 2.60-- 2nd 1.772 -- 3rd 1.347-- 4th 1.068 -- 5th 0.906( OD ) -- Wgt. 767 lb.

 

96 to 00 1st 2.437- 2nd 1.578 -3rd 1.160 - 4th 0.906 (OD)- 5th 0.750 (OD )-Wgt. RSTD 787lb

 

01 to 07 1st 2.529- 2nd 1.632 - 3rd 1.200 - 4th 0.960 (OD ) -5th 0.786 (OD )-Wgt 807lb. RSV

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, Squeez, I see what you are getting at !! I did not realize that the 2nd gens were geared that much higher. Considering that the 2nd gen, is a heavier Bike, and most folks rideing double, I see where Useing 4th or 5th before Reaching Highway speeds would not be to wise.

 

So if I understand you correctly, you think that folks are lugging down the engines, and doing some kind of damage to the Tranny. And thus the problem is in the transmisions.

So this would be why, when folks have the Rear Ends Changed by Yamaha, in most case's its not fixing the problem, because the tranny is still damaged.

 

I have always been in the habit of downshifting to 4th, IF I'm in 5th, and want to accellerate to a higher speed. And I have done very little 2 up rideing. Almost none. So I can see, where the higher Overdrive Ratio's of the 2nd gens might be causing this.

 

Looking at the Ratio's I would consider 3rd to be " High " Gear, and 4th and 5th only Overdrive's to be used at Full highway cruzing speeds.

 

OK, the can of worms isn " Opened " !!!!

Edited June 7, 2008 by GeorgeS

[flb_78]

I know of only 1 RSV with rear end problems that are more then the normal squeak and creak caused by the lack of lubrication on the hub pins.

[GeorgeS]

I know of only 1 RSV with rear end problems that are more then the normal squeak and creak caused by the lack of lubrication on the hub pins.

 

Read thru Editty posting today, one of many

[Tom]

Never had a problem here

[flb_78]

Read thru Editty posting today, one of many

 

I did and most who responded say that they fixed the squeak and creak by greasing the hub pins.

 

Brake Pad was the only other one besides Ediddy who had the rear end changed, even then, they didn't properly lubricate it after they replaced it.

[flb_78]

I should post though that I too have replaced my final drive unit, but I did it because it was leaking oil after 70,000 miles. I found a final drive unit on eBay for 55 bux shipped to my front door off an 06 unit with only 12,000 miles on it, otherwise, I would have just replaced the seals, but the "new to me" unit was cheaper in the long run. Plus now, I have an extra final drive laying around in case I decide to pony up the cash for the V-max rear end swap.

[Squeeze]

My two Cents ...

 

The Tranny isn't damaged in the 2Gen's by lugging, underreving the Engine. The Tranny, as well as primary Gears and Crankshaft are under heavy Stress at such low RpM. Only the Fact that Bearings, Crankshaft and everything else is more than Bulletproof prevents the Engines from failing in dozen's caused by riding constanly under such Condition.

 

These lower RpM's and heavy load under this Conditions are causing a Resonance in the whole Driveline from Crankshaft to final Drive. This Resonance is killing the final Drives, because they are the weakest Point in the whole Ensemble. with the highest Torque Level/which means mechanical Force) at the lowest Revelation.

 

Now, i'm not pointing with my Finger on Eddy, i'm sure there's something else not right and this contributes to the early passed out Pumpkins as well as riding two up, at low RpM and pulling a Traler behind. The Whine which is bothering some 2Genners could be seen as the first Stage. If i would be Eddy, i'd sure buy a Pumpkin from a Vmax or FJR1300 and be one happy Camper.

 

Just my 2 Cents, only technically spoken and not offending or blaming anyone.

[Guest DragonSlayer]

I'm just curious to know if after all those final drive replacements on Ediddy's bike did they follow up with a 600 mile service on them? If you've seen what comes out of them after 600 miles you sure wouldn't want to run the break in oil any longer than that. If you don't flush all the metal particles out from the break in period it's just going to keep grinding on everything inside it. Keep riding for a few thousand miles and it'll destroy itself again. That 600 mile service is VERY important with the final drive.

[Squeeze]

I'm just curious to know if after all those final drive replacements on Ediddy's bike did they follow up with a 600 mile service on them? If you've seen what comes out of them after 600 miles you sure wouldn't want to run the break in oil any longer than that. If you don't flush all the metal particles out from the break in period it's just going to keep grinding on everything inside it. Keep riding for a few thousand miles and it'll destroy itself again. That 600 mile service is VERY important with the final drive.

 

Well, i think when a Dealer hassles with a Bike that much, i would be suprise if they didn't CALL him in for an Oil Change.

[ediddy]

Yes, after each rear end was replaced I was told to bring the bike in after 600 miles so he rear fluid could be changed. I did this each time.

[Squeeze]

Eddy, did you think about a Vmax/FJR final Drive Unit ? I know, this a Thing Yamaha should take care of, but you like the Bike and why not go for it ? The Costs are not that high for used Pumpkin and for a test Ride, you even could leave the Speedo Pickup unmounted.

 

second Question ...

 

Did someone from Yamaha take a ride with you ? Just put a Helmet on and enter the rear Seat ?