Need everyone to put on their thinking caps

[Condor]

OK, here's the symptoms..

This afternoon while waiting at a signal I looked down at my amp gauge, and it shows a deep discharge. The turn signal was on, and the front brake was on. So I had a bunch of lights going on, and the amp meter fell every time the signal blinked, or the front brake was applied.. However... when I applied the rear brake the change needle barely showed any draw, and the rear brake light did light up. Rode it home from the Doc's and never had any trouble starting it, and as long as I didn't use the blinkers or the front hand brake the gauge show'd normal charge.

Now I just went out to check things out again, and without starting the engine, I put on the left and right turn signal they lit up but didn't blink. They did show a big battery draw. I fired up the engine and tried them and away they went and blinked like they were supposed to. All lights, including the headlight, were bright, running or not.

Any ideas? This is really weird...

I might also add that the bike has a new battery.

[hipshot]

jack, have you done the "fuse block" upgrade?

sounds to me, like you might have a bad fuse connection.

but then again, what do i know??

lol

just jt

[BuddyRich]

Did it matter if it was the left or right signal ?

[Condor]

Did it matter if it was the left or right signal ?

 

Didn't make any difference which one Buddy. And I'm still running the OEM fuse block...JT

[mark reed]

I might look at the stator.My 83 has had to be replaced twice. The second time I put a cooling kit on it that came on the later models.It just gets too hot and burns itself up and quits charging fully and then stops charging complety.

[Condor]

I might look at the stator.My 83 has had to be replaced twice. The second time I put a cooling kit on it that came on the later models.It just gets too hot and burns itself up and quits charging fully and then stops charging complety.

 

I thought about that too, but it doesn't explain why when using the rear brake which draws just as many amps as the front it doesn't show the big battery draw on the meter.?? And the meter shows normal charge without the load. As soon as I can find my Beckman...or go buy another multi-tester... I'll check voltages. BTW, the three white wire plug has been removed and the wires are run direct.

[Squidley]

Isn't there a turn signal relay in the circut? perhaps that is starting to take a crap and thus giving the problems

[Condor]

Isn't there a turn signal relay in the circut? perhaps that is starting to take a crap and thus giving the problems

 

That's possible, but when the motor is running it works great???. And why with one brake and not the other.???

[muffinman]

The not blinking is a sign of a bad ground in most cases so far as it works when running indicates that.

Heavy discarge from one switch is a sign of a bad switch.

I replaced the front switch on my 83 and that problem went away.

Claen all of the grounds and try another switch and you should be good to go.

Jeff

[Condor]

The not blinking is a sign of a bad ground in most cases so far as it works when running indicates that.

 

Heavy discarge from one switch is a sign of a bad switch.

 

I replaced the front switch on my 83 and that problem went away.

 

Claen all of the grounds and try another switch and you should be good to go.

 

Jeff

 

I'll give it a shot Jeff. Just to clarify. You're talking about the brake switch in the front reserve??

[muffinman]

Yes the one on the right handlebar I replaced mine and the draw went.Item #4 on the drawing

http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/yamaha-motorcycle-venture-royale-xvz12tdk-1983/o/m7869

Jeff

[Condor]

Yes the one on the right handlebar I replaced mine and the draw went.Item #4 on the drawing

 

http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/yamaha-motorcycle-venture-royale-xvz12tdk-1983/o/m7869

 

Jeff

 

I think I have a new one of those floating around in my stash somewhere. And it makes sense. My next project was to rebuild the front master and put in some new pads before my trip to Idaho later this month. The front brake was terrible, and I really had to squeeze on the lever to get what little braking there was out of it. I probably 'squashed' the switch.... I'll go ahead and rebuild, change out the switch, and check for a bad grounds... Might even install one of Brads heavy battery cable sets. Bought enough of them, just haven't had a need to install one yet... Thanks I'm starting to feel better.... Going to bed now....

[Squeeze]

I don't know of which Bike you're talking, but if it would have been a MKII, the EAND (Anti Dive) System is operated by the electric Coils on the Forks. I'm not sure if it is operated only by applying front Brake or also by rear Brake. But if so, this would be normal, if it is operated same as the Brake Light by both Switches, the rear Switch or the Connection might be bad ?

[Squeeze]

On a second Thought, you may clean the Signal Switch on the left Handlebar also.

[Condor]

I don't know of which Bike you're talking, but if it would have been a MKII, the EAND (Anti Dive) System is operated by the electric Coils on the Forks. I'm not sure if it is operated only by applying front Brake or also by rear Brake. But if so, this would be normal, if it is operated same as the Brake Light by both Switches, the rear Switch or the Connection might be bad ?

 

It's the '83 Squeeze. Hydralic anti-dives.

[woz111]

I'd do a test on the front break switch and the indicators, do a test on each indicator to see if there's a surge on one? Just an idea, probably one that you already thought of bll the best though mate, hope you sort it out soon.

[GeorgeS]

Why don't you Swap the Flasher Unit ( ie. relay ) with one of your other bikes.

( as I recall, you have several )

 

See if the problem follows ----- the swap proceedure

 

Also, clean the Big Plug, under the Passenger section of Seat, on left side, the one with about 15 wires going thru it. The Grd. for all rear lights comes thru this plug.

 

Also, find that Main Ground Stud, under the lft upper fairing, just left and a little fwd of the Battery, see page: 8-27 Item #30

 

Also, that pig tail grd lead from battery grd stud, goes about 8 inches, and there is a plug connector, Might be corroded, that runs to the grd stud under the left Fairing I believe.

 

Sounds like a High Resistance Ground someplace. ( Clean up the Neg Bat. cable at the Engine main grd point )

[Gearhead]

The bad ground for the flasher could be consistent with flashing with engine runnng but not with engine off. If the bad ground is consuming some of your voltage, maybe the charging output takes the total available voltage to the unit into the operating range, while shutting off the engine causes voltage to be too low to flash.

 

Jeremy

[Condor]

Went out this morning and messed around with the bike. I didn't try the flashers while the bike wasn't running, but did after firing it up. It acted like there was never a problem. Everything worked great. Then I rode the bike to an area where it would be easier to work on, and when I braked I noticed the problem starting again. I'm wondering if I don't have a loose ground, and it might be under the seat where George suggested. Especially withme sitting on it!! I'll still get in there and clean up all the grounds, and do the front brake. Afterwards we'll see if it'll happen again. Another thought did occur to me. The problem might be heat related somehow?? I hope the stator isn't quiting when it starts to get warm.

[Condor]

The bad ground for the flasher could be consistent with flashing with engine runnng but not with engine off. If the bad ground is consuming some of your voltage, maybe the charging output takes the total available voltage to the unit into the operating range, while shutting off the engine causes voltage to be too low to flash.

 

Jeremy

 

Good possibility Jerremy.... Makes sense. I think the ground somewhere is the problem. Tomorrow morning early AM.... Just picked up another Multi-meter from Harbor Freight. Never could find the Beckman... Next progress report in VDC...

[MiCarl]

I rode in a Parade Memorial day. Hot. 1 mile in 43 minutes at idle. Had the hazard flashers on. Of course the brake lights were on most of the trip.

 

I noticed after the radiator fan kicked on that the charging system wouldn't keep up. Had to loose the flashers. I'm also pretty sure my battery is on it's last legs.

[bobcat]

Jack

As posted by Jeff I too had the same problem that I thought I could live with until the rt brake switch started to smoke.....I disconnected it immediately and ordered a new switch, about $35...Just for sh*** and grins why don't you disconnect the front brake switch and see if thats the problem....There are 2 tabs top and bottom on the switch..use a small bladed screwdriver and it'll come off real easy...

[Condor]

Jack

 

As posted by Jeff I too had the same problem that I thought I could live with until the rt brake switch started to smoke.....I disconnected it immediately and ordered a new switch, about $35...Just for sh*** and grins why don't you disconnect the front brake switch and see if thats the problem....There are 2 tabs top and bottom on the switch..use a small bladed screwdriver and it'll come off real easy...

 

I'll give that a try if all else fails. I'm going to try and locate bad grounds first. Before covering up the scoot I tried the turn signal's again without the engine running and they still won't cycle.

[Condor]

OK, Checked out the battery/charge system this morning, and this is what I found. All readings were at the battery posts, initially with the bike cold. The battery voltage was 12.69vdc after resting overnight nothing on. Turned on the ignition key and the voltage dropped to 12.2vdc. Turned on the turn signal and the lamps came on but they didn't cycle. I could hear the breaker trying, but no go. Started the engine. Fired right up. Charge volts showed 14.2vdc at 3000rpm. Took the choke off and the rpm's dropped to 1000. At idle it showed 14.4-5vdc charge, higher than at 3000?? It was consistant. High rpm's showed less than at idle, but still adiquate. Turned on the turn signals. Lamps cycled with the voltage drop, almost nothing. Applied the hand brake, voltage drop again almost nil. The meter on the dash showed mild drops in voltage, but nothing like I experienced yesterday at the signal light. All reading were consistant when the engine wrmed up to operating tempurature. The big variable in all this is that I was sitting on the bike when I experienced the big meter drops in the dash meter readings. Both times. I'm going under the seat and see if I've 'crushed' something.... I'll also check any ground I can find.... And replace the turn signal breaker when I get the chance. Many thanks for all the suggestions. They helped a bunch...

[Gearhead]

Condor, your readings sound pretty good. You don't always get higher voltage at higher rpm; the v-reg keeps it in some range. But it is unusual I think to get such good charging voltage at idle.

 

I don't have a wiring diagram in front of me, but I've read recently that the dash volt gage is on the blinker circuit. I dunno if the brakes are on the same circuit. So, if there's some problem with the blinkers and perhaps the brakes, that will show up bigger on the volt gage that it is on the whole system. Hope that makes sense.

 

Finally, that ground isn't under the seat. It's below, forward and to the left of the battery. If you remove the battery and box, you can just get to it with and endwrench but it's hard. It's really designed to be accessed with the LH upper fairing off. I did manage to remove the bolt, clean up the ground and reinstall, but it was tough access. You could just add a couple extra ground wires, from the batt to the frame, and from a harness black ground wire or two to the frame.

 

Jeremy