What does the future hold for Yamaha

[Freebird]

That is the big question that I have.  Do you think that they will build another larger touring bike or even a large cruiser?  I have to tell you, I am one of the, probably few, here who truly like the Star Venture when it came out.  I actually like the large V-Twins and except for the painfully low rev limiter, it was really fun to ride.  Yamaha has a pretty long history of a lifespan of at least 10 years with no major changes on their models, the fact that they dripped the Star Venture and the Elude so quickly is ample proof that it was a resounding sales failure though.  Even though I do like the bike, I will always wonder what the heck were they thinking.    To me, the facts are pretty clear, American rides who love the big V-Twins are always going to buy an American bike.  Harley or Indian primarily.  If you want to draw sales away from them, you have to offer something compelling and different.  The Honda Goldwing carved out their own niche.  Most V Twin riders won't give them a second look but they weren't targeting those riders.  They target those who yearned for a more rifined and smooth running bike.  Yamaha did the same with the original Venture starting in 1983.  After dropping it in 1993, they came out with a cruiser style in 1999.  A lot of the ld die hard Venture riders didn't like it but many of us did.  Those of us who lover the cruiser styling but also the smooth power of the Yamaha V 4 engine were quick to accept it.  It would never really compete strongly for the V Twin riders but it was unique in the industry and was a proven and good running V 4 engine.  They owned that  segment.  The RSV was a beautiful,  and dependable bike.  I will be the first to admit that after more than 10 years, it was time for an upgrade but they already had an engine that was ready.  The new VMax motor was ready to go.  With some slight modifications, and more much less research and development that was spent of their new air cooled V Twin, I believe they had a winner waiting. 

Will they do it now?  Doubtful.  with big touring bikes on the decline, I fear that the time has past.  Yamaha may surprise me but it would indeed be a surprise. I'm a member, some of you are also, of a Facebook group named Senior Riders.  It is riders primarily between 60 and 90 years old.  There are riders of all brands in that group and some still ride big Harleys, Indians, BMWs, etc.  I will say that the vast majority however have moved to lighter and more agile styles.  Adventure bikes, standards, even some sport bikes.  

I stil have to wonder though.  Would Yamaha have had more success if they had come out with a new touring bike with a V Max V4 instead of the air cooled V Twiin.

If I were looking to buy a new touring bike right  now, it would likely be the Indian Pursuit.  It's a liquid cooled V-Twin rated at 120 HP and dynos at 108 HP at the rear wheel.  Now look at these two pictures.   For me, there is no contest on which is the better looking bike.  Put a 120 - 140 HP V Max based water cooled V 4 in this Star  Venture and I would favor it at least 10 to 1 over the Indian.  I think that Yamaha did great on the styling and it had most every advanced riding feature you could ask for.  I think that they could have kept their existing Venture Rider base and added to it.  What do you think?

 

[AGrengs]

I think just water cooling the v-twin would've made a huge improvement, but yes I think the V4 would have saved it.

[Steve S]

I would have bought a new Venture if it had been a 4-cylinder, liquid cooled, but settled for a used Venture.  I am not really into the V-Twin, I prefer more cylinders. Since I am pushing 70 real hard, I will keep riding my Venture bike and trike as long as I can.  

Edited February 9, 2023 by Steve S

[uncledj]

    I never was much into the whole Harley thing.   A lot of folks think "If it ain't a Harley, it ain't s##t".    That attitude was always a real turn off to me.    

  I've always been a Honda or Yammy fan, and you can't deny the styling of first or second gen Ventures.   Add to that the reliability and the performance...especially of the first gens, and it's a no brainer to me.    Let's not forget the bang for the buck aspect either.    As I'm getting older, I'm starting to look at 3 wheels.    I worry more than I used to about flats and keeping the bike upright, whether rolling or stopped, ....especially when Lisa's on the back.   There's probably a Can Am in my future, but I can't imagine ever giving up my Venture(s) , although some day I'll have to.

  As for Yammy,  I'd have to agree that they'll have a hard time competing against the likes of Harley and Indian, only because they're considered the "Cool" bike, regardless of other factors.    

[djh3]

We loved the RSV. But the top heavy-ness worried me. Ride and performance was very good. The V3 Venture, well all I ever did was a test ride around Daytona Speedway  roads. It seemed OK and I liked it had selectable "performance" modes. But was disappointed it wasnt water cooled. I had rode Victory's at several test ride days and liked the handling and performance. I liked the angular looks, kind of like the V3, definatly dont get confused with "the other American motorcycle". Would I buy an Indian? For me its a hard sell. Polaris pulled the rug out from under us Victory folks once, and you cant fault us for being a bit gun shy of them a second time around. 

 As for going with the crowd. Not likely. I raced Dodges when everybody else ran a Bow Tie. Drag racing kind of same thing I worked with a guy on a car and we ran big ol Mopars with big blocks. LOL

[Riderduke]

15 hours ago, Steve S said:

I would have bought a new Venture if it had been a 4-cylinder

Same here when I sold my 04 venture...I really liked the look of the New Venture and all it's bells and whistles.. I got a Harley Road Glide (water cooled cylinder head) and enjoyed it but always missed the venture... That time has passed me unfortunately and For now I'm sticking with my 3 wheels for now.  I'm thinking of maybe getting a small 2 wheeled Bike for local rides. (just like @Freebird old folks Facebook group.).  I miss the ride / lean of a Bike but my shoulder would not be able to handle a full dresser anymore..  

[Red Ryder]

Totally Agree Don.  After my accident went from RSV that I Loved to a Harley Heritage,105th anniversary which was great but was not as smooth as RSV.  I  sat on, test rode Star Venture, but too heavy for me at that time. Felt like Yamaha was just trying to hard to compete with American Bikes and missed the point of Loyal Yamaha Riders that loved their Smooth, Liquid Cooled bikes.

Now Riding a Harley trike that has Liquid cooled heads, go figure.  But  do not see Mother Yamaha coming out with another touring bike unless they compete with a V-max engine and whole new frame.  Will always love my Yamaha bikes, but...

[saddlebum]

I test rode the new venture and though it was nice,  unlike some I was not overly impressed and was more than happy to climb back onto my 1st gen. I have never ridden a Harley so  I cannot really compare. Not being a jump on the band wagon sort of guy, and go for something just because it's popular I lean towards what I like for me not what impresses others. Am I bit curious to take a Harley for a ride once in awhile? On occasion I am but that's about it. 

[slasher302]

I think the big issues for the touring/baggers are cost and "lifestyle".  HD has sold so many people on buying a huge expensive bagger that gets ridden from the owners' homes to the local bar and back.  I find myself in a small minority of people who jump on the bike with the intention of not returning for days.

With the price of the HD CVO touring bike hitting 51k, Yamaha at 27k and Honda in the low 30K range, not a lot of people can justify that kind of money on a 2nd/3rd vehicle. 

[djh3]

Agree the price of a touring bike could be a stalling point. I know for us it is a consideration for sure. Also the generation that would be coming of age to buy a bike to travel on are not interested in motorcycles.

[ChiefGunner]

I hope you don’t mind if I chime in here? As a previous owner of a 91 Venture Royale and a current owner of the new Star Venture with over 76k miles on it, I may have an interesting perspective.  Granted anyone’s perspective is personal and subject to dismissal.

I loved the heck out of my 91 Royale. It was my first touring bike and was beyond anything I’d imagined. It had the best “tech” of the time and I really liked the easily adjustable air ride suspension. As far as power goes… it was indomitable! Even sport bikes refused to tangle with it.  It did great for many multi state trips my wife and I took and never gave me a problem except ONE and that was the clutch. The motor was so strong and the only weak point was the clutch. I found a fix on line though that all you had to do was ADD a second concave clutch spring ring to it. It was much harder to pull the clutch in but when you revved that motor and let the clutch go there was no place for the power to go except lifting the front end up! Did it many times. In a way, the old Venture was like having a luxury sport touring bike.

Fast forward almost 13 years… I was shopping for a bike and truly there was nothing out there that truly fit the “touring” model except the Goldwing. I did not and do not like the upright seating position. It feels like you’re riding ON the bike and not in it as a part of it, however the wing was my only option for reliability and performance.  I was just about to pull the trigger on a stage 3 2017 wing when Yamaha debuted the SVTC.

As soon as I saw it I KNEW that’s what I wanted. It didn’t look like a cookie cutter bike like every other manufacturer out there. It was unique, had its own badass stance and was factory loaded with almost every tech you could imagine. I even went so far as to purchase the bike sight unseen! Had never seen or sat on one nor taken one for a test ride until the day it was delivered 29 Dec 2017.

Now, having had the bike for over 5yrs and putting over 76k miles on it I feel uniquely qualified to comment on it.  
It’s 964lbs but is incredibly nimble at slow speeds and is extremely predictable and steady when you throw it hard into corners. Myself having taken it at 75mph into a corner marked 40mph, and I have the scrapes down both pipes to prove it.  It’s super comfortable on very long rides and there something relaxing about that sound of a v-twin low unhurried rumble at 70 mph and about 2600 rpm.

Is the bike “underpowered” , I don’t think so. I was looking for a touring rig not a full dress racing bike. There’s more than enough torque to move the bike 2 up loads and with a loaded trailer. No problems passing either. Yes, the 4750 rpm limit took some learning to adjust to but that’s MY issue not the bike. And since having had the Ivan’s flash tune to the ECM, the bikes performance is vastly more impressive. Actually more in line with what I’d had expected straight from Yamaha but that’s neither here nor there. The fact is the performance increase IS available.

I don’t know about you gentleman but when riding and especially long trips, having an excellent sound system is very important. The Harmon Kardon Surround system on this bike is truly spectacular. As good as some I’ve heard on other bikes who spent a couple thousand dollars for and this one is stock! Add to that the DUAL audio where the passenger can listen to what they want at their own volume levels regardless of what you’re listening to and you have a system that provides customized enjoyment for BOTH people.  Every single volume item.. CB, COMMS, NAV, MUSIC, PHONE. Each one has its own volume control INDIVIDUALLY customizable by rider and passenger. Again, they had each person in mind when they did this obviously.

Now the electronic “quirks”.  Yamaha was made known about many of these issues but never addressed them. 1. When CB was ON and you used COMMS, what you said between the two of you was also broadcast over the CB. Yeah, not good. They needed to separate it so that COMMS were VOX control (like the Royale was) and CB required you to push the transmit button.    The NAV system worked well BUT was only limited to 5 way points and your destination so 6 total.  Some of us however found a way around that by utilizing a gpx1.1 with POI and were able to get it to accept routes with as many as 27 way points!  Of course another issue is that you could not save any address as a “name”. You could only save the address. That was frustrating cu I may not remember where “Robby’s Ribs” are but I remember the name. So you see the issue. 
Another tech piece I like is the VOX control of all functions. I just tap a button and it says “say a command”. Everything from placing a call to volume control or source selection etc… THAT is very nice cuz I don’t need to look to see what I’m doing.

Sure Park is great! Honda has only reverse but this has FORWARD & REVERSE and trust me, riding 2up loaded with a trailer and trying to maneuver in gravel, sand or loose whatever, this is a true lifesaver!

Another complaint said often is about the “heat”. The Royale was water cooled true, but when the cooling fans kicked in where did that heat go? YEP ! It got blown but up on you the rider!  This bike is air cooled. If you’re stuck in stop and go in the summer YES it’s gonna be hot.  I have found since the Ivan’s ECM Tune that the bike runs cooled. I have a hunch that these bikes were factory tuned lean to meet emissions standards hence the heat issue. Even when stuck in traffic with 10’s of thousands of bikes like the last Rolling Thunder in DC which I attended, the heat was still bearable but I’ll admit not by much.

Has the bike has some issues, yes. Has Yamaha stepped up in every issue except the software… YES.

IMHO, Yamaha made the most awesome v-twin touring bike available but you can’t get past peoples stereotypes and people don’t think v-twin when they think Yamaha.  I think their poor marketing and initial release are to blame for much of the poor sales. Another big part of it is the many here who just cannot envision the name “Venture” and v-twin being in the same sentence let alone the same bike. TRUTH! 
See, the “stereotyping” exists on all sides.

Would I have loved to see them stuff thw 1700 VMAX motor into this? HECK YEAH! 
But I also know I would not be getting 42mpg with that NOR would the bike have a 6.6 gal tank for range because of the down draft design of the VMAX KOTOR.  There’s always gives & takes.  This current design in the SVTC truly is the best “touring” package available.

That’s my 2 cents… well maybe  buck fifty. 😁

 

 

[Junior]

If I had the money to spend , I would have one. Maybe one day

[Freebird]

Chiefgunner, I agreer with pretty much everything you wrote. Mine truly was a pleasure to ride..  I had absolutely no issue with excess heat or anything else.  My only small complaint was the  very low rev limiter.  As you stated though, you get used to that.  I also have no problem with a V Twin as I've owned a number of Harley's.  I just feel that from a sales standpoint, a VMax based tourer might have done better.  I guess we'll never know though.

[cowpuc]

On 2/8/2023 at 8:17 AM, Freebird said:

That is the big question that I have.  Do you think that they will build another larger touring bike or even a large cruiser?  I have to tell you, I am one of the, probably few, here who truly like the Star Venture when it came out.  I actually like the large V-Twins and except for the painfully low rev limiter, it was really fun to ride.  Yamaha has a pretty long history of a lifespan of at least 10 years with no major changes on their models, the fact that they dripped the Star Venture and the Elude so quickly is ample proof that it was a resounding sales failure though.  Even though I do like the bike, I will always wonder what the heck were they thinking.    To me, the facts are pretty clear, American rides who love the big V-Twins are always going to buy an American bike.  Harley or Indian primarily.  If you want to draw sales away from them, you have to offer something compelling and different.  The Honda Goldwing carved out their own niche.  Most V Twin riders won't give them a second look but they weren't targeting those riders.  They target those who yearned for a more rifined and smooth running bike.  Yamaha did the same with the original Venture starting in 1983.  After dropping it in 1993, they came out with a cruiser style in 1999.  A lot of the ld die hard Venture riders didn't like it but many of us did.  Those of us who lover the cruiser styling but also the smooth power of the Yamaha V 4 engine were quick to accept it.  It would never really compete strongly for the V Twin riders but it was unique in the industry and was a proven and good running V 4 engine.  They owned that  segment.  The RSV was a beautiful,  and dependable bike.  I will be the first to admit that after more than 10 years, it was time for an upgrade but they already had an engine that was ready.  The new VMax motor was ready to go.  With some slight modifications, and more much less research and development that was spent of their new air cooled V Twin, I believe they had a winner waiting. I could not agree more my brother!!! 

Will they do it now?  Doubtful.  with big touring bikes on the decline, I fear that the time has past.  Yamaha may surprise me but it would indeed be a surprise. I'm a member, some of you are also, of a Facebook group named Senior Riders.  It is riders primarily between 60 and 90 years old.  There are riders of all brands in that group and some still ride big Harleys, Indians, BMWs, etc.  I will say that the vast majority however have moved to lighter and more agile styles.  Adventure bikes, standards, even some sport bikes.  

I stil have to wonder though.  Would Yamaha have had more success if they had come out with a new touring bike with a V Max V4 instead of the air cooled V Twiin. Having followed the new bike, literally from beginning to end, I truly believe if what you are suggesting had been the case the new bike would have literally changed the touring industry for ever and even HD would be competing behind Yamaha.. 

If I were looking to buy a new touring bike right  now, it would likely be the Indian Pursuit.  It's a liquid cooled V-Twin rated at 120 HP and dynos at 108 HP at the rear wheel.  Now look at these two pictures.   For me, there is no contest on which is the better looking bike.  Put a 120 - 140 HP V Max based water cooled V 4 in this Star  Venture and I would favor it at least 10 to 1 over the Indian.  I think that Yamaha did great on the styling and it had most every advanced riding feature you could ask for.  I think that they could have kept their existing Venture Rider base and added to it.  What do you think? ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, UNEQUIVOCALLY 100% YES!! 

 I seriously think Mom Yam just listened to the wrong group of Yamaha riders in her attempt to "turn the touring world upside down" (her words, not mine).  After speaking to the "STAR RIDERS" at Americade who Mom Yam did take advice from it was easy to see that, from day one of design, they had no interest in the V-4 V-Max upgrade idea's that we all were convinced was coming. I also believe that the shear size of the Air Cooled, Belt Drive, V-Twin American riders far outnumbered our group so considerably thats the direction Mom Yam went. Years ago, before Mom Yam revealed her failed attempt at producing a new Venture that would "set a new benchmark for all touring bikes in performance, handling and comfort" @Freebird started a thread called "let the discussion begin" here on VR. Many many of our club members responded and most of the club echoed the same "wish list". I am going to post here my response in that thread only because I still stand by it. I, like most here, followed the new Venture from start to finish and I even chased it to the unveiling at Lake George with MUCH excitement. Tweeks, TIP and I went out to Lake George for the unveiling with cash in hand and ready to buy/order that new 1700cc 175 hp shaft drive machine that I was SURE Mom Yam would be unveiling. I know for fact there were others on site that day at the unveiling with the same hope/dreams and intent, I spoke to many of them. @videoarizona was actually on the phone with me (or texting, cant remember) and clearly heard my response as soon as they started the 1st bike (they had two) hidden behind the curtain and I heard the familiar sound of ANOTHER FREEKING HD CLONE V-TWIN. I think my response was something like "ohhh crap".  Like many others there, I had no interest in buying one after that. What a shame,, I am 100% certain that had Mom Yam actually completed her promises stated above there would be one in my garage right now as well as MANY others here. At the unveiling I actually heard Mom Yam's competition LAUGH and watched them walk away saying "no competition here thats for sure". I know for a fact that at least 4 of those people who said that were Honda Reps. I was so disheartened,, embarrassed, I had NO INTEREST in even test riding one then BUT, after a few months of reading promotional's, Tweeks/TIP and I did cave in and went to Sturgis that year for test riding and to ask questions concerning some other promises Mom Yam made about the bike. I took my infra red temp gauge and video camera along with a list of questions from fellow club members and we headed out on Tweeks. 

At Sturgis I asked the Yam Factory Reps about the question of air cooled V-Twins being HOT and how Yam solved that issue as I could not see any indication of such on the exterior of the bike. I also asked permission to take some temp readings.. They refused to allow me to take ANY temp readings on the Demo bikes and simply said YAMAHA FIGURED OUT THE SECRET TO SOLVING THE HEAT ISSUE WITH AIR COOLED V-TWINS. From that point on I was told to write Yamaha for any more answers to the questions both the club members and I had. 

While I still 100% believe the new venture could have been a REAL DEAL trend setter and could have been a real boost for Mom Yam and our sport and they would have sold like Hot Cakes had they of just listened to the faithful Venture riders of which I am one, I am still not quite sure what happened to the (supposedly) huge backing from the V-STAR RIDERS I met at Lake George who stood on the stage there and claimed they had designed the bike. It does not appear that even that group took a liking to the new bike. When they rode the bike up onto the platform at Lake George my first response to Tippy was "I SEE POLARIS VICTORY WRITTEN ALL OVER THAT THING! I WONDER IF ARLEN NESS LEFT POLARIS AND HAD HIS HAND IN THE DESIGN".  Strangely enough, it seems the Polaris Victory riders ended up being the main supporter of the new Venture from what I see but even they didnt have the numbers needed to keep the steed in production.  Fact is, IMHO, chasing Harley Davidson is/was NEVER a good plan. HD riders are in love with HD,, the sound, the vibes, the ride, the clothes, the QUALITY in both paint and looks.. I have owned and ridden MANY Harleys and LOVED em all so I get it BUT,, its wayyy to late in the game to even think about challenging HD, thats not possible. Their piece of the pie is theirs alone, they somehow survived the ages and have EARNED respect and honor in the Industry for doing so. Mom Yam should have forgot about chasing HD and focused on fulfilling her promises leading up to the unveiling,, I am still very very sad that she didn't. 

Here is that "wish list"/response to Freebirds thread entitled "let the discussion begin",,, I still wish it!! LOL: 

 

""""""I have been a Yamaha enthusiast for many many years and they have proven to me over and over again that they are TOPS!! Owned a couple early YZ monoshock MX bikes way back and they were AWESOME!! My little RD350 and RD250 (remains still in my basement) were giant killers - proving Yamaha's superiority in R&D!! My 73 XS650 beat across the country with me on its back several times, chopped it and rode it many more miles until sold. Bought a brand new 650 Special, AWESOME "cloned" mini Harley that saw the west too!! My faith in mother Yamaha has been proven 5 times over by my continual riding of the 1st Gen Ventures starting in 1987 until present day with my 83 that has almost 300k on it!! Fact is, folks at Yamaha, I AM READY FOR THE NEXT PHASE!!

All that said, here is my feeble wish list:

 

1700cc V-4 "V-Max" motor.. Detune it if you must (just like before) but please,, dont do another V-Twin - got enough of em.. You guys can do it,, I KNOW YOU CAN!!

Shaft drive!

EFI with a tunable tuner - even if its an add on - please provide one so we can tune it!!

LED lighting.

Engine guarding and saddle bag guarding.

Adjustable bars like on the first gen.

Factory tank and windshield bags.

Fixed Fairing.

Get the same Doctors who advised you on constructing the seat of the 1st Gens (cant remember what you call those guys) to advise you on this one - my kids, wife and I LOVE what they did!! Keep the seat height difference between the rider and passenger no more than 3 inches (2 is great) - raising the passenger higher causes weight imbalance and makes slow speed riding harder.

Ease of removal of the trunk(s) for changing rear tire.

Center stand.

Forward boards with normal foot pegs located rearward so standing up while riding is still possible, shift and brake levers at both locations (no heal toe please).

Hand warmers.

Key removable rear trunk and bags.

Grease zerks on all main pivot points.

High output stator even though it has LED's.

Double check the gear sets in the tranny and make sure they ramp up solidly.

Oversized clutch to insure NO slippage in high gears with xtra weight.

42 millimeter front fork tubes with progressive springs.

Imbed reflective tape (or use reflective paint) in paint lines (like pin striping) so all profiles of bike light up when grazed by car lights.

Add a large foot onto side stand - tired of bending over to pick up stand plate after parking on loose ground.

Explore which tire sizes are the most common and build around those standards so tire choices and finding them are easy.

Remember those long grips you used on the first gens? Use those, I love bending them back onto my knees.

Enclose the motor well to keep ANY objectional heat off both riders BUT - use lots of venting with plenums to act as heaters when needed.

Windshield it so the rear rider remains in the protective air pocket - functional vents in shield and fairing to adjust air movement if needed (hey,, could be asking for servo operated shield but I dont care for more things to go wrong).

6 speed Over drive tranny.

Use GOOD solder, especially with ECU pins. QC the daylights out of it! DONT go cheap and trust the Chinese!!

Dont short us on wire harness leads so wiring is tight - xtra 1/4 inch really helps!!

Make fairing panels easy to remove but not so they fall off.

Supply printable shop manual disc and printed well written owners manual. Supply GOOD factory tire pressure guage.

Chrome is out for me, I LOVE dull stainless (like the pipes on the "New" V-Max),, matter of fact,, build mine with no rustable chrome and all dull stainless!!

Intercom, CB and radio would be nice.. Keep the tape deck.

 

OK, if you REALLY are reading this and you like what I am talking,, PLEASE make mine just a little faster in stock form than anyone elses.. Not that I would ever use the extra pazzaazz but I have buddies that I gotta compete with and just KNOWING I have the fastest one would be worth an extra grand to me:big-grin-emoticon:

 

I KNOW you can do it!! Keep the faith mother Yamaha - I AM!!

Puc"""""

 

 

 

 

 

 

[videoarizona]

If the new Venture had a V4, even if it was a new fuel injected version of our old motor, I would have bought one. Seriously.

But when @cowpuc  "sighed" ( being nice here) during the unveiling of the new Venture, I knew I wasn't going to be spending any money on a new scoot. Saddened me. 

Thinking ...why would Yamaha even think they could compete against HD? 

What/who could possibly believe that? We know only that the Star group got their opinions heard and ours was not. Well.. They are VTwin lovers... They wanted a touring VTwin. They were wrong. Yamaha was wrong. We all know that now. 

An expensive mistake. I like Twins. The VStar 950 was a truly wonderful ride. So don't get me wrong. But the V4 motor would have made the new Star Venture unique. And with everything else that bike offered, it would have sold!!

Will Yamaha come out with a new touring bike? I doubt it.

I'm thinking of downsizing even though I love riding the RSV. It's so dam comfortable. 

So for me...I think my time has passed with regarding long touring rides.

Sad to think that Yamaha's last entry into the touring world didn't sell. But that's life... I'm embarrassed for Yamaha. Even my best riding buddy was mute on the new bike( he rides an HD Ultra). That says a lot to me about Yamaha's choice.

Maybe after I'm long gone, the younger generation will be asking for a touring bike from Yamaha. Maybe they will build one. A hybrid. With all the wonderful bells and whistles. I wish the company only the best success!!!

Edited February 15, 2023 by videoarizona
Sp

[larrydr]

I started to ride in 1963 , and have run about every brand of bike out there ...I been a Yamaha guy since 2008 , and only used bikes ...I belong to Antique Motorcycle Club of Manitoba and like most of the guys I repair or restore all makes ..I like the Yamaha and as of now I have 3 Yamaha's and 1 Honda and my ride has been a 1983 Venture chassis ID#000663 ..I am 76 years old ( 5 foot 4 inches ) and I will have to down size my ride to lighter bike  because just like any one else sometimes the body gives messages to go away from a large ride .  

[Junior]

Enjoyed reading previous article's. Very well written and researched. 

[saddlebum]

The problem with trying to compete with HD is that your not just competing with the bike. Your competing with a brand name, a following, a mentality, a culture, an ideology, so strongly ingrained that even ford and dodge built HD edition trucks. So no matter how much better you build the bike you cannot compete and hope to come on top. The only way to gain is listen to those who already prefer the Yamaha brand keep them happy instead of trying to win over the HD clan. You may even win over some of the HD owners indirectly through currant Yamaha owners, instead of trying to appeal to them directly. If you combine all the none HD touring bike owners you still have a big market to appeal to. I also believe if along with performance and handling one placed a lot of emphasis on the joys and flexibility of economic MC traveling, like  outdoor outfitters do when it comes to canoeing, backpacking and wilderness camping. There is a chance of creating a whole new following. JMHO.

 

 

 

 

 

[cowpuc]

Fact is we, our "club", was in the minority and had a very small footprint in the touring world (other touring riders had no idea what they were missing, our V-4's ROCK/ROCKED!) and the Yam V-Twin lovers in the STAR RIDERS side of Yamaha had a bigger voice in the matter. The V-TWIN Yam's were (and still are) an excellent machine and had a nice variety of air cooled V-Twins for wayyy less $$$ than HD to get people riding. Personally I LOVED the Strats n Raider. I also LOVED the smaller air cooled Yam V-Twins and worked on many of them. They were great bikes!  I spent a TON of time on my nephews Strat and was always impressed. I could have bought a brand new one CHEAP (about 1/3 the price of a comparable HD) but knew it would sit in the garage and wait for me/us to take time away from our 83 Venture touring to ride it so I passed. I do understand the STAR RIDERS push for an air cooled, big bore touring bike.  I highly doubt though (and my doubts are proven because very few them bought the big twin Venture they asked for) they understood what they were asking for and really didn't understand the grip HD has on the BIG TWIN touring market.  If they, and Mom Yam, would have did a little more research into the matter I am 100% sure we would ALL be riding 1700cc V-Max motored, shaft driven, water cooled new Ventures and I would have the fastest one LOL.  I love the looks of the new one and still see the missed opportunity Mom Yam made by not stuffing a detuned 160 hp V-Max motor in exactly the body that they came up with. Those fake intakes just scream BAD TO THE BONE and ready to be the real deal intakes.  I timed out of the touring bikes long ago now but if we were still riding I would be looking at, and probably own one of the new Wings.  That's a lot closer to what I was picturing as the touring bike that would "turn the touring world upside down" that Mom Yam was telling us was comingi and the very reason I went to the unveiling ready to buy in the first place, minus a bunch of HP of course.   

[mabeline]

I have to pretty much agree with what everyone has said so far. Is the next Generation not into motorcycles, or is it that they can't afford it? With the cost of living and the cost to live ( the cost of mortgages/ properties, Insurance, cost of vehicle repairs, etc.) And don't mean recently but in the last 7 or 8 years. I know my wages haven't gone up like everything else in the last 7 yrs. Or am just in the wrong business!

I bought my 2008 RSV new for $18000 CAD, and at that time I could justify that kind of money for 4-5 good months of riding in our area. I think an Ultra at that time was around $25-$28 CAD and a Gold Wing and/or BMW RT was right up there too!                          I couldn't justify those higher priced bikes. Now a full touring bike is no less than $30000CAD. 

Is it possible for the manufactures to build a good basic inexpensive touring bike? For me and a lot of others, I've discussed over a cold one with. Do we need all of the electronic goodies? ABS Yes.   Large screen TV No.  Cruise Yes.  Nav. I have it on my phone! Good stereo  Yes (for me).  I don't think CowPuc's wish list is too out of line!  Do we want/ need all those goodies? Or are the manufactures saying that we need/ want them? 

With a few tweaks to the RSV and not a lot of retooling. Could Yama Mama have kept a good following?  Could fuel injection have been added without to many mods? Other up grades like Gauges in place of the cassette, Keyless bags and trunk. A Strat style front wheel, for a little more bling. The RSV has it's own unique sound, when you throw a set of Monster Oval style mufflers on them. Like Harley has their unique potato potato sound!

Harley's been tweaking their big touring bikes for years. 

 

 

[saddlebum]

11 hours ago, mabeline said:

I have to pretty much agree with what everyone has said so far. Is the next Generation not into motorcycles, or is it that they can't afford it? With the cost of living and the cost to live ( the cost of mortgages/ properties, Insurance, cost of vehicle repairs, etc.) And don't mean recently but in the last 7 or 8 years. I know my wages haven't gone up like everything else in the last 7 yrs. Or am just in the wrong business!

To answer that question I believe a big part of the next generation prefer to live in a Virtual reality, versus reality. When we were young, we talked about the things we went out and did or the sports we played. Now all I hear is talk about what they watch on the boob tube. or the wins and losses they endured on video games. There are times I have listened to them talk about something, only to suddenly realize they are not actually talking about a real life situation but an online pretend one. They talk about a fight, as though it was real, only they did not come home like we did with a shiner  , we won in real life scrap, because they were actually sitting at home, the whole time in front of a PC.

Cost wise, like everything else pricing is a big factor but than there are always good deals if one looks around on used ,to be found. The other cost factor is insurance. Insurance cost in Canada is ludicrous in comparison the US and forget about adding an extra bike to your stable. Canadian insurance company's want as much for each additional bike, as the first bike, even though you can only ride one at a time. Their justification for this cash grab, is you might let a friend drive it but in reality, how often would that actually happen?

Edited February 16, 2023 by saddlebum

[videoarizona]

Actually, I do think many riders are downsizing. Take a good solid look at the new Royal Enfield 650 Super Meteor. It's coming to the US this summer. A solid, well made cruiser thats taking the motorcycle media by storm. Its a simple, humble well built bike. Even has ABS and Brembro type brakes. But a strong motor, simple instrumentation (reminds me of the VStars), and solid fit and finish. With an estimated price tag of around $8K, it should sell very well here. 

Why? Well......

Because.....The mid sized cruiser market is barren. Yamaha pulled the VStar 950 and 1300 that were truly the best cruisers out there. They were far better than HD's or anyone else's cruisers. Upgrading those bikes would have given Yamaha the lead in the mid size cruiser market. They still own the small size cruiser market with the VStar 250. Its been crediting as being the best small cruiser for beginners, for the quite a few years now.

Add to that, the new "touring" bikes being introduced are smaller, lighter and far faster than ever. Many have V4's in them!!! There are called sport tourers or adventure bikes. The former are larger and road worthy...the latter are smaller but equally suited for light off roading and highway riding. From Yamaha?  Think Tenere.

That's where the money is going right now.

The touring market isn't going away...it's changing....and the Star riders didn't even notice....hence the new Yamaha touring scoot that failed to sell despite being a tremendous effort by Yamaha.

Well...as I said before...if the newest  Yamaha had been a truly unique touring machine, I would have bought one. I've completed my 75th year of life, and my riding days are nearing the end. My body is telling me to slow down. Been riding since I was 17ish. The RSV has served me well and I still love to ride it. But yearn for the smaller, lighter, more nimble scoots like the VStar 950Tourer. Fast, comfortable economical and put my old body in the wind nicely. Maybe I'll sell the RSV and get that Royal Enfield cruiser. I doubt Yamaha will give me a choice.....shame.

Hope all are well...do miss youse guys and gals!

david

[AGrengs]

24 minutes ago, videoarizona said:

Actually, I do think many riders are downsizing. Take a good solid look at the new Royal Enfield 650 Super Meteor. It's coming to the US this summer. A solid, well made cruiser thats taking the motorcycle media by storm. Its a simple, humble well built bike. Even has ABS and Brembro type brakes. But a strong motor, simple instrumentation (reminds me of the VStars), and solid fit and finish. With an estimated price tag of around $8K, it should sell very well here. 

 

I go on one long trip each year where my RSV serves me perfectly, but the rest of my riding is all small trips and local.  If I could afford a second bike I would like something smaller and easier to throw around as I'm getting older.

[Heimdog]

I have it from a Yamaha dealer that I ride with who said Yamaha appears to be getting out of motorcycles entirely.  Also appears that they are cutting back on snowmobiles as well.  That is surprising as they're a big thing here in WI and the Northern States.  He says he can order all the side-by-sides he wants, but bikes and sleds are very hard to come by.  

Guess I'll just keep putting gas into my 07 RSV and ride on!

 

[Freebird]

Haven't heard anything about it but it really wouldn't surprise me.  They have certainly abandoned the big cruiser and touring market.