UK to ban internal combustion engine motorcycles

[Freebird]

Just read a story where the UK is planning to ban internal combustion engine motorcycles by 2035.  WOW...that's not that far away my friends.  Sorry, I just don't get it. 

https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-news/united-kingdom-proposes-end-sales-combustion-engine-motorcycles/?utm_medium=syndication&utm_source=googlenews&fbclid=IwAR1Uga3P9u9Mq4GzMJq28OgvOzhngVhtKc66RYxXKDKgngCSrGb2dsPOxWY

[Marcarl]

I wonder if some organization has actually totaled up all the costs, dollars as well as climate, of going electric. Costs of getting the proper materials and the costs of disposal, vs the costs of gas powered. I've seen some stats but nothing all put together. I got a sneeky feeling that electric ain't so cheap.

[Freebird]

I agree. 

[Joe in WV]

1 hour ago, Freebird said:

Just read a story where the UK is planning to ban internal combustion engine motorcycles by 2035.  WOW...that's not that far away my friends.  Sorry, I just don't get it. 

https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-news/united-kingdom-proposes-end-sales-combustion-engine-motorcycles/?utm_medium=syndication&utm_source=googlenews&fbclid=IwAR1Uga3P9u9Mq4GzMJq28OgvOzhngVhtKc66RYxXKDKgngCSrGb2dsPOxWY

The people need to vote the "leaders" proposing things like this out.  In Europe they are trying to close farms and stop farmers from raising cattle.  It makes no sense.  Now, if one were to take the same amount of effort and  help Russia, China and third world countries  produce cleaner energy, it would truly make an impact.  The United States has already switched over to cleaner energy and will only be able to squeak out another 10% efficiency in the near future.(as per articles I have read) .  Some want to force people into mass transit which isn't practical in large countries

Edited August 11, 2022 by Joe in WV
mispelling

[Joe in WV]

57 minutes ago, Marcarl said:

I wonder if some organization has actually totaled up all the costs, dollars as well as climate, of going electric. Costs of getting the proper materials and the costs of disposal, vs the costs of gas powered. I've seen some stats but nothing all put together. I got a sneeky feeling that electric ain't so cheap.

Clean Electric is a lot more expensive than fossil fuels. (Even with heavily subsidized wind mills  and solar cells.)   That's why the government is jacking fossil fuel prices up.  Then the government is requiring power companies to use at least 10% clean energy.(percentage goes up in coming years)    This is a double wammy on citizens as we get to pay a higher electric bill as well as higher taxes. (electric company doesn't care how much it costs to produce clean energy as they pass it on to you...)

[Pasta Burner]

1 hour ago, Marcarl said:

I wonder if some organization has actually totaled up all the costs, dollars as well as climate, of going electric. Costs of getting the proper materials and the costs of disposal, vs the costs of gas powered. I've seen some stats but nothing all put together. I got a sneeky feeling that electric ain't so cheap.

Absolutely big oil and big electric together have added up the costs to both maximize profit while screwing the little guy.  It’s not about climate change it’s about profit margins.

[uncledj]

All part of "Building Back Better"....   Going to take some sacrifice, but in the end we'll own nothing and we'll be happy.....

[saddlebum]

Then there is the environmental impact as well as human rights failures behind the electric car that seems to be little mentioned. Here is an interesting article on that note.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/02/climate/electric-vehicles-environment.html

I am not saying I am against electric vehicles. I am just saying we need to see all the facts, not just the ones that are appealing. Its like free range chicken, you need to see what criteria defines the difference between free range and non-free range you might be disappointingly surprised or not.

Edited August 12, 2022 by saddlebum

[Red Ryder]

It will be a complete Disaster!  It is part of the one World Order that Countries are going to, including America with the current administration going to a Socialistic Agenda.

The problem are Many.  Are Lenders going to let all these millions of Combustable vehicles loans get repossessed?  Who can afford electric autos with $75,000 average price?  Let alone, at $1,500 per home plug in, times 2 or 3 vehicles, who can afford it?  What about these new electric trucks pulling a 6000lb trailer only going 75 miles before charging, are campers buying this? Are Employers going to allow you to be 2-3 hours late for work to charge your vehicle?  Is the cost of electricity charging vehicles going to be 3 times higher than gas, Yes!

Just a few Common Sence Questions, Later-

[BadCatClassics]

People making the decisions abandoning ICE are fools and fallen for the fallacy of green energy. Doesn't exist. 

Wind and solar are only electricity, we will still oil and gas for chemicals needed for all products it takes to produce over 6000 other items like tires, plastic for interiors and seats, paint, adhesives, grease and almost every chemical compound used in automotive for the green electric vehicles.

Looks to me like ignorant government decisions makers are forcing fraud on the people. It's mass psychosis. 

[Pasta Burner]

8 hours ago, BadCatClassics said:

People making the decisions abandoning ICE are fools and fallen for the fallacy of green energy. Doesn't exist. 

Wind and solar are only electricity, we will still oil and gas for chemicals needed for all products it takes to produce over 6000 other items like tires, plastic for interiors and seats, paint, adhesives, grease and almost every chemical compound used in automotive for the green electric vehicles.

Looks to me like ignorant government decisions makers are forcing fraud on the people. It's mass psychosis. 

The government isn’t ignorant, they know exactly what they are doing and pushing for.  The Sheepole are the ignorant ones.

[GrahamLFCkeeper]

View from the UK.

We have a cut off date for sale of ICE cars of 2030. And now this consultation on ending ICE bikes by 2035.

The truth is we will not be ready. There is no real infrastructure plan. 

The likelihood is an extension till 2035 on cars. 

Personal opinion is I can see small bikes (what we call A1) being electric with some A2 specific (up to 33bhp - built to be for the A2 licence) being included in a 2035 electric change.

Unfortunately, we have a government* that talks an awful lot about what it's going to do but never actually puts any plans into action.

(*not that we actually have a government at the moment as we wait for a new Prime Minister to be elected)

Edited August 18, 2022 by GrahamLFCkeeper

[circa1968]

You think that's bad, Commiefornia is outlawing ICE CARS by 2035 and now Massachusetts is following suit.  sigh, I want America back, I miss her dearly

[Joe in WV]

People in Germany have been leading the charge to go green for a while. Then Russia cut off their oil.  REALITY TIME... Most have tried to switch over to burning wood or coal.  Now the wood is very hard to find and the coal is non-existant.  So... people are going into protected forested areas and cutting wood illegally. It's going to be a very rough winter for them.  Do you really believe the ones in charge are going to go cold this winter?   Perhaps people will change their voting habits?  They are talking about bringing their nuke plants back on line.

Our (US) electric power grid cannot handle  the load currently and they are going to make people switch to EV'S.  Does anyone else remember this summer our officials saying to expect some brownouts?

This war on fossil fuels needs to stop!

[saddlebum]

On 8/14/2022 at 6:15 AM, Pasta Burner said:

The government isn’t ignorant, they know exactly what they are doing and pushing for.  The Sheepole are the ignorant ones.

That's right. They know exactly who they are feeding the wealth to and who is going to add to those existing below the poverty line and they just do not care. On top of that though the vehicles themselves are so called pollution free. How pollution free are the scenes behind the electric car that we are unaware. Example mining of the metals and materials need to produce the cars such as the highly environmental destructive mining of lithium, increased mining of copper for wire and cabling etc. most of which I am sure will be destructive open pit mining and the production of electricity which would have to be ramped up and would all the means for doing this be environmentally friendly? I do not profess to know all the answers if any but I sure am full of scary questions.

Edited August 30, 2022 by saddlebum

[Joe in WV]

lithium pits are deadly.   Electricity looses approximately 8-15% just by transmission... 

"The transmission over long distances creates power losses. The major part of the energy losses comes from Joule effect in transformers and power lines. The energy is lost as heat in the conductors. The overall losses between the power plant and consumers is then in the range between 8 and 15%."

What's that they say about supply and demand?   The price will increase When the demand goes up and the supply remains constant.

Perhaps we should be investing in power company stock. Wonder what Paul Pelosi's stock portfolio looks like?

Edited August 30, 2022 by Joe in WV

[circa1968]

5 hours ago, saddlebum said:

That's right. They know exactly who they are feeding the wealth to and who is going to add to those existing below the poverty line and they just do not care. On top of that though the vehicles themselves are so called pollution free. How pollution free are the scenes behind the electric car that we are unaware. Example mining of the metals and materials need to produce the cars such as the highly environmental destructive mining of lithium, increased mining of copper for wire and cabling etc. most of which I am sure will be destructive open pit mining and the production of electricity which would have to be ramped up and would all the means for doing this be environmentally friendly? I do not profess to know all the answers if any but I sure am full of scary questions.

Spot on.  The energy to mine, refine and produce those electric car components comes from oil/gas powered sources.  TANSTAAFL.

As an electrical engineer, I love the concept of electric cars (I would consider buying the Mach-e Mustang, its a neat vehicle but wish they didn't call it a Mustang, its not).  Its an incredible advancement in technology, but they are not necessarily environmentally friendly for the reasons you point out.  Just like the wind mills.  Sure, once they are up and running, they provide 'carbon-free' electricity.  But, if you've ever seen just one of their blades being transported down the highway, they are massive.  It takes a semi and several support vehicles just to deliver it over many miles of highway.  And before then, material has to be mined, refined, processed and turned into that blade.  Once on site, it needs big, heavy diesel powered machines to assemble.  How many years does a windmill have to run 24/7 to produce more 'carbon-free' electric than it took to build it?  If there were no gov't subsidies, would they ever get built?  If the answer is no, then trust the bean counters that they are bad investments.

Again, not opposed to any of these new technologies, also don't have all the answers, but too many people believe in carbon-free fantasies.  Heck, even walking or riding a bicycle consumes oxygen and produces carbon dioxide.  

Also, most people don't realize the batteries do not last forever.  Every charge/discharge cycle takes a small % out of the remaining useful life of the battery - same as every other battery.  I have to assume that the Mfg'ers are over-provisioning the battery capacity to accommodate for this.  Here in CA, they are required to warranty the battery for 10 years to be at no less than 80% of original capacity (IIRC).  The only way they can do this is put in, say, an 18kwh battery and call it 10kwh in the specs, for example.  In 10 years time, it will lose ~80% of its original capacity, but still be within the original spec of 10kwh.   That adds more weight, which is counter-productive.  I'd like to see that requirement go away, lower the weight/space requirements and make the battery packs cheap, drop-in replacements.  If they can drop the weight, lower the costs and get the range up to 4-500 miles on a single charge, you now have a viable alternative to ICE, but still not carbon free.

 

[uncledj]

It's all smoke & mirrors.    Electric vehicles are the way of the future, but we're not nearly there yet.    When you look at the carbon footprint of these vehicles you need to look at the  "Total" footprint, ...which is to say what it takes to mine and process the materials needed...the carbon output of the vehicle during it's lifetime....and what happens to these materials when the vehicle is scrapped.    If you take into account the "Total" carbon footprint;  electric vehicles fall way behind ICE vehicles.    They don't tell ya that...

  Yup, they're the future, but not OUR future...maybe our kids or grand-kids, but not us.

  The bigger picture they're looking at is CONTROL of the population.     They'd like to push us into living in urban centers, on top of one another,  relying on public transportation.

  There's true evil at work in this world, and the push for "carbon free" transportation is one small facet of it.

   

[Pasta Burner]

1 hour ago, uncledj said:

 

  The bigger picture they're looking at is CONTROL of the population.     They'd like to push us into living in urban centers, on top of one another,  relying on public transportation.

 

They recently built apartments here in SLC specifically without enough parking, banking on public transit.  Sad thing is without a car you’re trapped in a 60 mile corridor.