STARTER WOE'S

[COWBOYBILL]

    FYI.... I ASKED COWPUC ABOUT MY STARTER WOE'S AND HE BEING ONE OF THE KINDEST AND MOST INFORMATIVE  MEMBERS ON VENTURE.ORG.....TOLD ME WHAT TO DO. I BELIEVE THIS INFO IS TO BE SHARED WITH EVERYONE ELSE ON THE WEBSITE.....THANK YOU COWPUC !...YOU ARE THE BEST.....COWBOY BILL

 

 

 

HOWDY COWBOY!! Always a pleasure hearing from you my brother!  On the starter question... Years ago Yamaha produced a bike called the 750 Virago,, do you remember them?  The 750 Virago design with its "bendix" was a huge failure for Mom Yam because of the noise you are hearing and my shops backroom made good money fixing the noise by grinding relief on the mating gears of the bendix to quiet them down (something Mom Yam approved of for warranty repair but never did a recall on,, made me mad - I should have been rewarded HUGELY for that lol). After regrinding those mating gears all that was left was for the owner to ALWAYS remember to use a GOOD battery and to keep the starter cleaned internally so the starter would not let the engine backfire on start up, ruining the gears. Mom Yam DID make a new design for our Ventures, thankfully, called a Starter Clutch as shown here:  

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcycle/1983/xvz12tk/starter-clutch

As you can see, our Ventures do not have a Bendix. Instead there are idler gears that transfer the power from the starter to the starter clutch and that "clutch" has 3 spring held engagement devices that engage when you spin the starter up. It sounds to me like your starter clutch has failed, cracked where the pins set in it that hold the engagement arms. Bill,, this is actually very common because most owners do not know that they REALLY need to keep the interior of the starter clean from carbon dust created by the brushes and to always keep a good battery employed - basically the same maintenance I ALWAYS explained to the 750 Virago owners I had done my repair to to quiet their bikes.  The hardest part of fixing/replacing the starter clutch is removal of the flywheel to get at the starter clutch.  If the flywheel has never been removed it can be a bugger.. You will need a GOOD 2 or 3 jaw puller and, I suggest, a GOOD impact rotary. Put a bike strap over the flywheel to catch it when it finally lets go so it dont get ya. Also take a REALLY close look at your bikes stator assembly while your in there, look for burned coils. Make sure your bike has had the update to the stator installed consisting of a splash plate to toss oil on the stator and a wire that goes into the flywheel nut oil orifice. You could also look into locating a 4 brush starter (as used in the MK2's) as many Venture owners have found them to not be so dependent on keeping the starters clean internally, at least that is what I have read/heard. Personally I have never had need to replace my starters with the 4 brush or ever had a starter clutch fail in any of my 6 MK1's covering over 1 million miles. I am pretty sure that has to do with the fact that I always kept my starters clean and maintained a good battery. Hope this helps my friend! If you have ANY other questions do not be hesitant to ask! Your brother of the wrench n saddle. Puc

P.S.. - it might not be a bad idea to repost your exact question to me in the Watering Hole and I will copy/paste my response to you there. It may produce other ideas (always a good thing) and help others in the future. what say you? 

 

[cowpuc]

2 hours ago, COWBOYBILL said:

    FYI.... I ASKED COWPUC ABOUT MY STARTER WOE'S AND HE BEING ONE OF THE KINDEST AND MOST INFORMATIVE  MEMBERS ON VENTURE.ORG.....TOLD ME WHAT TO DO. I BELIEVE THIS INFO IS TO BE SHARED WITH EVERYONE ELSE ON THE WEBSITE.....THANK YOU COWPUC !...YOU ARE THE BEST.....COWBOY BILL

 

 

 

HOWDY COWBOY!! Always a pleasure hearing from you my brother!  On the starter question... Years ago Yamaha produced a bike called the 750 Virago,, do you remember them?  The 750 Virago design with its "bendix" was a huge failure for Mom Yam because of the noise you are hearing and my shops backroom made good money fixing the noise by grinding relief on the mating gears of the bendix to quiet them down (something Mom Yam approved of for warranty repair but never did a recall on,, made me mad - I should have been rewarded HUGELY for that lol). After regrinding those mating gears all that was left was for the owner to ALWAYS remember to use a GOOD battery and to keep the starter cleaned internally so the starter would not let the engine backfire on start up, ruining the gears. Mom Yam DID make a new design for our Ventures, thankfully, called a Starter Clutch as shown here:  

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcycle/1983/xvz12tk/starter-clutch

As you can see, our Ventures do not have a Bendix. Instead there are idler gears that transfer the power from the starter to the starter clutch and that "clutch" has 3 spring held engagement devices that engage when you spin the starter up. It sounds to me like your starter clutch has failed, cracked where the pins set in it that hold the engagement arms. Bill,, this is actually very common because most owners do not know that they REALLY need to keep the interior of the starter clean from carbon dust created by the brushes and to always keep a good battery employed - basically the same maintenance I ALWAYS explained to the 750 Virago owners I had done my repair to to quiet their bikes.  The hardest part of fixing/replacing the starter clutch is removal of the flywheel to get at the starter clutch.  If the flywheel has never been removed it can be a bugger.. You will need a GOOD 2 or 3 jaw puller and, I suggest, a GOOD impact rotary. Put a bike strap over the flywheel to catch it when it finally lets go so it dont get ya. Also take a REALLY close look at your bikes stator assembly while your in there, look for burned coils. Make sure your bike has had the update to the stator installed consisting of a splash plate to toss oil on the stator and a wire that goes into the flywheel nut oil orifice. You could also look into locating a 4 brush starter (as used in the MK2's) as many Venture owners have found them to not be so dependent on keeping the starters clean internally, at least that is what I have read/heard. Personally I have never had need to replace my starters with the 4 brush or ever had a starter clutch fail in any of my 6 MK1's covering over 1 million miles. I am pretty sure that has to do with the fact that I always kept my starters clean and maintained a good battery. Hope this helps my friend! If you have ANY other questions do not be hesitant to ask! Your brother of the wrench n saddle. Puc

P.S.. - it might not be a bad idea to repost your exact question to me in the Watering Hole and I will copy/paste my response to you there. It may produce other ideas (always a good thing) and help others in the future. what say you? 

 

Perfect @COWBOYBILL and THANK YOU,, not just for following up on this but for the kind words my friend. Hopefully if I missed something here in my response to your P.M. the sites guru's will jump in with other thoughts that will make your repair even easier! Puc

[skydoc_17]

Hey Bill,

That Cowpuc, he's a gem! The only thing I wanted to add is that we have a member on the Forum, Dano that at one time machined a 6 sprag Starter Clutch. (Heavy Duty) If in fact he no longer offers that upgrade, I offer one. (But I would prefer that you check with Dano first!) The stock Yamaha Starter Clutch has 3 spring loaded "Pins" called sprags that engage and connect the starter motor to the engine during start up. With the Heavy Duty unit, you have 6 spring loaded sprags instead of 3, and this distributes the engagement load over 6 pins instead of 3. The failure point is actually the housing that holds the pins, so by adding more pins, you decrease the load on the housing in any given area. Pin spring failure is also another area that causes a starter clutch to go out. 

Cowpuc is spot on about the maintenance of the starter motor and the use of a GOOD strong battery. The sprags of the starter clutch engage due to centrifugal force, so if the battery is weak, or the starter is dragging because of dust from the brushes, the you don't get FULL engagement of the starter sprags. 

Only the model years 1991, 1992 and 1993 of the MKII Venture and Royale came with the 4 brush starter. ALL second Gens. came with a 4 brush starter.

I hope this starter info helps you Bill, and Good on YOU Cowpuc for sharing your vast knowledge of these wonderful motorcycles with a fellow member!!

Earl

[COWBOYBILL]

THX EARL 

   I WILL CHECK OUT AND SEE WHAT DANO HAS TO SAY !...IF HE IS MIA OR DOES NOT HAVE WHAT I NEED {GEN 1}....I WILL GIVE YOU A HOLLER...

                                                      MUCH OBLIGED.....  BILL KING   AKA...COWBOY BILL 

[cowpuc]

53 minutes ago, COWBOYBILL said:

THX EARL 

   I WILL CHECK OUT AND SEE WHAT DANO HAS TO SAY !...IF HE IS MIA OR DOES NOT HAVE WHAT I NEED {GEN 1}....I WILL GIVE YOU A HOLLER...

                                                      MUCH OBLIGED.....  BILL KING   AKA...COWBOY BILL 

There you have it @COWBOYBILL, this is exacty what I was hoping for.. I had a hunch someone like @skydoc_17 would hop in and expound on the matter. No doubt about it Cowboy, poking around VR will definitely yield good results whether spinning wrenches or figuring out what ice cream to have after dinner... lol.. 

Edited August 7, 2022 by cowpuc

[COWBOYBILL]

THX AGAIN PUC !...THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE WITH YOU IN IT !....PEACE BROTHER....COWBOY !

[cowpuc]

1 hour ago, COWBOYBILL said:

THX AGAIN PUC !...THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE WITH YOU IN IT !....PEACE BROTHER....COWBOY !

You are more than welcome Cowboy,, as always, its a true pleasure to be of assistance any way I can. If you have any others questions feel free to contact me. Peace to you my brother of the wrench. Puc

[vulcanb822]

Earl,

 

I need to replace the starter clutch on my 1991 venture.  Do you still offer the upgraded starter clutch?

 

[cowpuc]

On 2/12/2023 at 6:15 PM, vulcanb822 said:

Earl,

 

I need to replace the starter clutch on my 1991 venture.  Do you still offer the upgraded starter clutch?

 

Try this Vulc.. @skydoc_17, maybe Earl doesnt know your looking for him...

[Dano]

On 2/12/2023 at 6:15 PM, vulcanb822 said:

Earl,

 

I need to replace the starter clutch on my 1991 venture.  Do you still offer the upgraded starter clutch?

 

Hey Vulcan, Dano here. I still offer mine in the Yamaha 2nd gen  style, it provides 18 sprags around it to grab the crank  and uses 6 bolts to attach it to the flywheel/rotor. Email me at   danob11@comcast.net for the details.

[vulcanb822]

Thanks Dano.  Sent you an email. 

 

[Dano]

For any of ya'll out there that still love riding these monsters, I'm still out here doing the starter clutch upgrades...Can't/won't ride anymore due to the eyes and the amount of idiots out there,,, but still do some work on them!

Dano