Are large touring bikes going away?

[Freebird]

I have been reading reports that the Yamaha Star Venture is done.   We all know that there was no 2019 model.  The last year and the current model is the 2021 model.  The Eluder was a one year model.  Once again, they skipped 2022.  Dealers are reporting that they have heard nothing from Yamaha about a 2023 model.

Also, I am reading that several large Hondas are being discontinued.  I have even read that SOME models of the Goldwing are going away and there are rumors that due to International emissions standards, that it is the manual transmission models that will no longer be available.  Word is that they can meet the emission standards possibly with the automatic models but not with the manual transmission.

I have no idea how Harley and Indian are going to do it but I am told that the USA standards are a good bit less restrictive than European standards.  Honda, Yamaha, etc. serve a larger global market than Harley and Indian and I understand will likely not produce a bike that can only be sold in the USA.

Add to this the fact that most of the younger generation are not buying large cruisers and touring bikes and many of the older generation are either no longer riding or downsizing to lighter bikes and it just doesn't bode well for the future of large touring machines.

All very interesting and I think mostly rumor at this point but the big Japanese cruisers may be in trouble.  I guess we will learn if it's truth or fiction in the next few months.

[Woody]

Sounds like there will be a market for used bikes in the near future. 

[Freebird]

Oh, I’ve also read multiple reports that some accessories for the Star Venture have already been discontinued. 

[1BigDog]

Prices of full sized bikes/dressers have skyrocketed. Dropping 40k plus on a bike is just crazy. The younger kids are more into sporting type bikes now. Wonder what the electric revolution will do to the two wheel landscape soon. Things ain’t what they used to be anymore 

[RDawson]

The $$$ it’s costing to go so high tech isn’t helping. Most of us older riders want to get away from technology and go relax. I don’t care for all the infotainment, touch screens, glitzy tech on my truck let alone my bike. Go back to a simpler fuel injected water cooled bike we can work on ourselves and drop the prices so more can afford it. It freaks me out when my truck text messages me about oil changes and low tires, I don’t want my bike doing it. 

[Riderduke]

Check this out.... Goldwing going away????? 

 

[XV1100SE]

I couldn't find if there is an increase or decrease in the number of motorcycle drivers licenses.  It's been commented before about the number of new bike sales/production.  Whether the number of new riders I can't comment on.

I'll repeat what has already been said about the new Venture that turned off 1st and 2nd Gen owners.  I know owners of the 3rd Gen are happy with their bikes (albeit GPS issues)....but had the 3rd Gen maintained a 4 cylinder (1800/1900cc) liquid cooled, shaft drive...it would have differentiated it from other touring bikes.  Fuel injection, a better sound system....icing on the cake.

Other big turn off was the price increase.  $20k for an RSV Venture vs $30k for the Star Venture.  Sure there are significant upgrades on the 3rd Gen but for some of us that may have considered replacing 2nd Gens but not at that price increase.  I think 2nd Gen owners would be more interested in a newer bike than 1st Gen owners.

As for the market in general...interests have changed among riders.  Younger crowd doesn't like "old man" cars and same could be said about touring bikes being "old man" bikes.  Sport bikes catch younger eyes.  Trunks, comfortable seats..."older eyes".  Look at income levels too.  Sport bikes are less money than the big Harley's and Goldwings.  Job market isn't what it used to be with the fewer good paying manufacturing jobs.  Buy a bike or pay rent ?  Bikes/snowmobiles tend to be a "nice to have" rather than a "need to have" with disposable income being lower in general.

Over the next couple years interest will turn to e-motorcycles just as cars/pick-up trucks are going hybrid or electric/battery.  Tends to be a pattern/cycle with bike sales and interest.  Hopefully there will be an upswing in the next few years.  With an unstable market for chips/bikes/income... fewer people may want to be spending $30k on a bike when you can get a small car for that.

If Yamaha's long range planning is reviewing touring bikes...maybe we should resurrect talk about what the next Gen "Venture" should be.  Maybe this time Yamaha will listen to Venture riders rather than the twin owners.

[XV1100SE]

Bikes to be end of life this year - https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto/two-wheelers/honda-suzuki-yamaha-kawasaki-to-pull-the-plug-on-20-motorcycles-this-year-41655975368933.html

 

https://www.topgear.com.ph/moto-sapiens/motorcycle-news/honda-yamaha-kawasaki-suzuki-discontinue-motorcycles-a4354-20220627

"Japan’s new emissions standards are modeled after the Euro 5 laws in effect across the European Union and have applied to all new models from the end of 2020 and will impact all existing models in November. Complying with the new regulations will necessitate bike manufacturers installing upgraded catalytic converters or redesigning engines. The costs involved in making some models comply are simply too high to justify for Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, and Kawasaki."

Edited June 29, 2022 by XV1100SE

[bpate4home]

This could be a very good reason why Yamaha went they way they did on the Gen 3. Low RPM, the manual recommends shifting at 1900 RPM and the rev limiter. I've bee reading good reviews about Ivan's Performance finishing their ECU changes for the Venture/Eluder Ivan's Performance Products (ivansperformanceproducts.com)

[Freebird]

14 minutes ago, bpate4home said:

This could be a very good reason why Yamaha went they way they did on the Gen 3. Low RPM, the manual recommends shifting at 1900 RPM and the rev limiter. I've bee reading good reviews about Ivan's Performance finishing their ECU changes for the Venture/Eluder Ivan's Performance Products (ivansperformanceproducts.com)

The low rev limiter was the one thing that I didn't like about the bike.  Otherwise, I loved it.  I have heard though that it is being discontinued.  They skipped 2019 and 2022 already.

[saddlebum]

On 6/29/2022 at 8:13 AM, Woody said:

Sounds like there will be a market for used bikes in the near future. 

That was my 1st thought as well.

[saddlebum]

23 hours ago, RDawson said:

The $$$ it’s costing to go so high tech isn’t helping. Most of us older riders want to get away from technology and go relax. I don’t care for all the infotainment, touch screens, glitzy tech on my truck let alone my bike. Go back to a simpler fuel injected water cooled bike we can work on ourselves and drop the prices so more can afford it. It freaks me out when my truck text messages me about oil changes and low tires, I don’t want my bike doing it. 

I am in full agreement and as a mechanic for 50 some years I have seen the changes and how they effect the trucking industry. the increased amount of time that these trucks spend in our shop compared to years ago and the repair bills I have to hand customers are brutal to say the least. Now we do not just replace a $2 headlamp but a $1,200+ headlight module. Due to increased use of data link in our vehicles wiring issues can take days instead of hours to resolve and pretty much any issue that may occur can no longer be repaired on the side of the road. Ninety percent of breakdowns now either have to limp in or get towed in. Where I used to see 3- 4 tow ins a year I now see them on a monthly bases sometimes even 3 in one day. It may be great for my job security but my heart sure bleeds for the poor truck driver, specially the independent who only has the one truck. Ninety percent of this stuff only satisfies gadget crazy people and the manufactures. at the end of they day your still only riding or delivering product from A to B.

Edited June 30, 2022 by saddlebum

[RDawson]

26 minutes ago, saddlebum said:

I am in full agreement and as a mechanic for 50 some years I have seen the changes and how they effect the trucking industry. the increased amount of time that these trucks spend in our shop compared to years ago and the repair bills I have to hand customers are brutal to say the least. Now we do not just replace a $2 headlamp but a $1,200+ headlight module. Due to increased use of data link in our vehicles wiring issues can take days instead of hours to resolve and pretty much any issue that may occur can no longer be repaired on the side of the road. Ninety percent of breakdowns now either have to limp in or get towed in. Where I used to see 3- 4 tow ins a year I now see them on a monthly bases sometimes even 3 in one day. It may be great for my job security but my heart sure bleeds for the poor truck driver, specially the independent who only has the one truck. Ninety percent of this stuff only satisfies gadget crazy people and the manufactures. at the end of they day your still only riding or delivering product from A to B.

We took a 105’ tower truck out of service recently because of electrical/electronic issues. As it was a custom built truck there are no diagrams or graphics to go by to track the issues. It’s all to do with the ladder movement not the engine. 18,000 miles on it and it’s being sold for scrap. To replace it is $1.3 million, we don’t have the budget so we do without. 
CORRECTION: they’ll do without, I’m retiring next month. 

[djh3]

So who built the fire truck? LeFrance or E One or one of those. I cant believe they built a one off emergency vehicle.

[RDawson]

2 minutes ago, djh3 said:

So who built the fire truck? LeFrance or E One or one of those. I cant believe they built a one off emergency vehicle.

It’s an E1 but a 94 model, was just rarely used. It’s a custom body build and has miles of wiring. We tried to send it to E1 for a complete rewire/rebuild but they say no. The technology is too old. The local college actually bought it for us because their dorms weren’t sprinkled back then. There was a fatal arson fire in a dorm in 98, that truck pulled students out that day. They then sprinkled all dorms soon after and now are phasing out all high rise dorms. 

[cowpuc]

On 6/29/2022 at 8:02 AM, Freebird said:

I have been reading reports that the Yamaha Star Venture is done.   We all know that there was no 2019 model.  The last year and the current model is the 2021 model.  The Eluder was a one year model.  Once again, they skipped 2022.  Dealers are reporting that they have heard nothing from Yamaha about a 2023 model.

Also, I am reading that several large Hondas are being discontinued.  I have even read that SOME models of the Goldwing are going away and there are rumors that due to International emissions standards, that it is the manual transmission models that will no longer be available.  Word is that they can meet the emission standards possibly with the automatic models but not with the manual transmission.

I have no idea how Harley and Indian are going to do it but I am told that the USA standards are a good bit less restrictive than European standards.  Honda, Yamaha, etc. serve a larger global market than Harley and Indian and I understand will likely not produce a bike that can only be sold in the USA.

Add to this the fact that most of the younger generation are not buying large cruisers and touring bikes and many of the older generation are either no longer riding or downsizing to lighter bikes and it just doesn't bode well for the future of large touring machines.

All very interesting and I think mostly rumor at this point but the big Japanese cruisers may be in trouble.  I guess we will learn if it's truth or fiction in the next few months.

I think there is more to the failure of the Gen 3 than just people getting out of touring. I think there would have been a lot more interest in the Gen 3 if Mom Yam would have listened to our club, BUT,, she didn't and here we are.  On the same token though, yep,, the touring bike world has gone somewhat stagnant hasn't it. I do know the people that own the Harley shop in town personally and know they are not doing to bad. They have sold a TON of used bikes and don't seem to be doing to bad on new stuff, when they can get them in.  It will be really interesting to see how the Sturgis Rally does with attendance this year. In the past, during downturns in sales that rally also shows downturns. On a whole different thought, I have for many years (since the greeny movement got out of hand) thought a Hybrid Motorcycle might just be the thing now that will be the future of touring bikes. If I were CEO of HD or Polaris I would be pushing this, especially now.  Our little Hybrid car maintains +60 MPG on the highway with its combined total of 140 hp electric motor/gas engine. I think the 1st company to take a serious shot at doing something similar with a touring bike and breaking into +100 mpg in so doing will be paid in big dividends. Of course, this all hinges on basic economics now though. If this recession is not dealt with head on we may all be walking and eating deer taken from the state parks. Country boy will survive! Puc

[Freebird]

I am a bit surprised that there has been no talk of a hybrid.  I doubt that I would be a customer but it seems that bike manufacturers jumped right over the hybrid idea and are going straight to all electric.  Not at all good for long distance touring.

[Freebird]

Well, I guess I need to do my homework before commenting.  In fact, Kawasaki does have a hybrid, albeit not a touring model, in the works.  To be honest, I'm not impressed with it but they are working on one.  The article also ways that Honda tried a hybrid scooter and Piaggio has a hybrid MP3.  I don't know if either are still in production. 

https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-news/kawasaki-hybrid-motorcycle-prototype-unveiled/

[cowpuc]

18 minutes ago, Freebird said:

Well, I guess I need to do my homework before commenting.  In fact, Kawasaki does have a hybrid, albeit not a touring model, in the works.  To be honest, I'm not impressed with it but they are working on one.  The article also ways that Honda tried a hybrid scooter and Piaggio has a hybrid MP3.  I don't know if either are still in production. 

https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-news/kawasaki-hybrid-motorcycle-prototype-unveiled/

WOW Don,, look at that, I had NO idea. That is an excellent read. Its fun learning something new everyday, which I just did.. Good on ya Kawasaki, it may not be a full out touring scoot but hey, its a start. @Freebird, I didnt notice "mpg" goals mentioned in that article, did you? I did notice mention that because bikes are already fuel effecient the mpg gains arent that inviting. I dont find that to be accurate. I think those that lean toward the "saving the planet" idea may very well be interested in being able to still cross the country with as close to zero emissions as possible and saving $$$ at the pump in the process. Thanks again Boss,, you enlightened me and that is appreciated! Puc

[bpate4home]

So an all electric touring bike? I don't see that plausible with today's tech. You can do short jaunts in an electric car but then you have to charge for how many hours? A hybrid, a little more plausible but getting a battery of any size to really make a difference in mileage I'm skeptical of. In a normal year I average 12000 mi just to and from work. This takes into consideration that I travel - a lot. My round trip to the office is between 70 and 80 mi per day. Electric or hybrid is a little more feasible for this. No for the other 8 - 12K I put on the bike, these are days of 500 mi or more. The range on such a small battery for this type of travel would be unacceptable. 

[Freebird]

4 minutes ago, bpate4home said:

So an all electric touring bike? I don't see that plausible with today's tech. You can do short jaunts in an electric car but then you have to charge for how many hours? A hybrid, a little more plausible but getting a battery of any size to really make a difference in mileage I'm skeptical of. In a normal year I average 12000 mi just to and from work. This takes into consideration that I travel - a lot. My round trip to the office is between 70 and 80 mi per day. Electric or hybrid is a little more feasible for this. No for the other 8 - 12K I put on the bike, these are days of 500 mi or more. The range on such a small battery for this type of travel would be unacceptable. 

I agree with everything you said. 

[cowpuc]

2 hours ago, bpate4home said:

So an all electric touring bike? I don't see that plausible with today's tech. You can do short jaunts in an electric car but then you have to charge for how many hours? A hybrid, a little more plausible but getting a battery of any size to really make a difference in mileage I'm skeptical of. In a normal year I average 12000 mi just to and from work. This takes into consideration that I travel - a lot. My round trip to the office is between 70 and 80 mi per day. Electric or hybrid is a little more feasible for this. No for the other 8 - 12K I put on the bike, these are days of 500 mi or more. The range on such a small battery for this type of travel would be unacceptable. 

 

2 hours ago, Freebird said:

I agree with everything you said. 

You guys would probably be shocked at how small the 360 volt Lithium battery pack is in Trooper, my Hybrid Hyundai Ioniq. Those Koreans also sectioned off a tiny area of it for 12vdc, very effecient. I agree though that full electric, both in cars and in bikes is stupid.  I met Guiness World Book title holder years back who was crossing America on his full electric bike to compete in some electric MC competition in Ohio, he was coming from San Diego and had to wait 4 hours for his bike to recharge. He agreed that until our electric grid is upgraded and battery technology caught up so "fill ups" would take no longer than filling up a gas car,, EV's would never be viable, THAT is where the hybrid can and does ROCK! 

 

[videoarizona]

I was talking to a younger generation guy today. He's owned lots of cars and bikes. He was looking for a Yamaha RSV in Phoenix, but didn't see one. Always wanted a touring bike. Bought an Indian. 

He also had a Tenere. Now, he's debating why he bought the bigger bike. The Tenere can go across country just fine.... Look at Long Haul Paul! He's now a Tenere and loves it. And the Tenere is significantly cheaper to buy and run.

So maybe the future is smaller and more adaptable scoots. Just thinking out loud....

[larrydr]

At 75 years old I find myself looking for a lower well balanced bike ..I lowered my 83   1 1/2  inches at the rear and low profile tire at the front which did help  , the balance control is great ..I do have 3 Yamaha bikes in the 750 cc size , but the switch to that size of bike is not here for me yet ..Many of the guys here have gone to Yamaha   VSTAR  ....I ride with some guys my age and older and the conversation always goes to either stop riding or finding a bike with less weight ...I belong to the Antique Motorcycle Club here in Manitoba ..There a demand here for older bikes and some of the parts are getting to be hard to find ...

Edited July 2, 2022 by larrydr

[RDawson]

For those of us that shop in the big n tall shops smaller bikes just don’t work. I had someone tell me a few years ago my bike looks too small for me. I’m not comfortable folded up on a smaller ride.